Beloved brothers, I implore you to work with me in addressing this matter. It has been said severally on this forum that whatever one may believe about the Trinity does not matter to one's faith and salvation. A discourse that I started on a thread sometime ago should end in an answer to the question but it's taking me more time than I intended to finish it and the matter has become pressing to some degree.

I will therefore offer some questions here that I believe are crucial to addressing the matter. I implore you, my brothers, to address yourself to them and not allow distracting elements to prevent us from reaching substantial agreement. In the mouths of two or three witnesses, every word shall be established.


PART I
1. To be born again/anew or saved or be given membership of God's family, one must believe on the Lord Jesus. Shall we receive this to mean that the Person of the Lord Jesus is the very foundation of our faith? In short, can we say that our Faith is the Faith of the Lord Jesus Himself? If not, why not?


2. If we can say so, can we infer from that that it is a question not only crucial but also final to the Christian Faith Who the Lord Jesus is?

3. If so, Who is the Lord Jesus?


PART II
4. What qualified Lord Jesus to die for men and make propitiation for their sins?

5. A variation of the above question, but still relevant: What qualified Lord Jesus to be Mediator between God and man? That is, what requirements must one fill to be a mediator and in what way did Jesus measure up to these requirements?

6. Did Jesus need to die at all? Why?

7. Lord Jesus was the first to ever rise from the dead. Why was this possible at all?


PART III
8. Is it right to expect that when a mediator has succeeded at his work of arbitration there should be strong evidence that peace has been made? If this is so, does the Christian have any proof that his offence against God has been pardoned?

9. If he does, what is it? If he does not, why does he not?

10. What generally or customarily is the token that proves that peace has been made? And therefore what can we define this proof or guarantee that the Christian is given, if any, to be?



PS: I know that some of us are sensitive to the terms, Trinity and Trinitarian and other such labels. I beg you will countenance them for the sake of simplicity. I also implore you again to ignore any distracting comments. Thank you, my very dear brothers.

I will wait to add my own voice to this debate.

here comes the first distracsion. Gosh, where you at? long time no see na.

Lol....@ image123....

Hope u don't hate us...

We love u all bro.....

@ Ihedinobi,

These questions are too much naw.....Abeg, professor take am easy naw, lolz. .

@ OP,

This Trinity has generated much heat recently. Many verses refutes the unitarians in the scripture. My only issue is against those who deny the deity of Christ as God, not the Father though and who deny the Holy Spirit as God and being distinct from the Father and the Son but rather say, the Holy Spirit is a Force or Power or whatever they call the Holy Spirit. Apostle Paul believed in "Trinity" even THOUGH THE WORD "Trinity" wasn't used by him. Apostle Paul who wrote most of the epistle that we quote and minister from says "the Father is God",

New International Version (©1984)
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you. Colossians 1:3

The same Apostle Paul calls Christ God,

New International Version (©1984)
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:5

The writer of Hebrews (I believe it's Apostle Paul though) clearly differentiate and gave a clear picture of "Trinity" EVEN THOUGH THE WORD "TRINITY" WASN'T USED. Take a look at this,

New International Version (©1984)
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:14

To the OP question, "Is The Trinity Foundational To Our Faith?". The simple answer is YES! However, it doesn't mean those who dont believe in Trinity are loved less by our heavenly Father. As a matter of truth without mincing words, ALL TRUE BELIEVERS ARE PART OF THE GODHEAD or TRINITY or GOD FAMILY. Hence, God family is MORE than Trinity. Glory to God. I will continue when I wake up. Thank you all.

First off, it may be necessary to clarify what is meant by foundational. I will use it in this sense as an important/essential element of understanding even though I know it could be used in a more 'fundamental' sense.

On the one hand the Trinity is foundational to the Christian faith in that the consideration is that even before the 'foundation' (that word again) of the world the God who saw the beginning from the end made plans for redemption. Ultimately, the price involved Him paying the due price Himself.

In the unfolding of this plan, we then have revelation of some of the aspects and nature of God and part of this revelation is that there are three persons in he Godhead or that God consists of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit ----- or put differently: the Bible says the Father is God, that also the Son is God, that also the Holy Spirit is God. Most crucially, the Bible emphatically maintains that God is ONE.

Thus this is the revelation: God is One and yet God consists of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.


Now to a practical point: let us take an illiterate grandmother or great grandmother in some village or other in Nigeria: she hears preaching that God loves us and wants to redeem us and for this reason sent a person (or say even 'a man') called Jesus to redeem mankind. The Bright Morning Star arises in her heart and never sets. She knows nothing about consubstantiality, Nicene, Athanasius, . . . . .

Enigma: First off, it may be necessary to clarify what is meant by foundational. I will use it in this sense as an important/essential element of understanding even though I know it could be used in a more 'fundamental' sense.

On the one hand the Trinity is foundational to the Christian faith in that the consideration is that even before the 'foundation' (that word again) of the world the God who saw the beginning from the end made plans for redemption. Ultimately, the price involved Him paying the due price Himself.

In the unfolding of this plan, we then have revelation of some of the aspects and nature of God and part of this revelation is that there are three persons in he Godhead or that God consists of The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit ----- or put differently: the Bible says the Father is God, that also the Son is God, that also the Holy Spirit is God. Most crucially, the Bible emphatically maintains that God is ONE.

Thus this is the revelation: God is One and yet God consists of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.


Now to a practical point: let us take an illiterate grandmother or great grandmother in some village or other in Nigeria: she hears preaching that God loves us and wants to redeem us and for this reason sent a person (or say even 'a man') called Jesus to redeem mankind. The Bright Morning Star arises in her heart and never sets. She knows nothing about consubstantiality, Nicene, Athanasius, . . . . .

I had forgotten to add that I didn't mean the teaching. I prepared the opening post a number of times but the terrible condition of the network cost me the whole thing. And as I recrafted it, I lost some clarifying elements like the one I just pointed out. But thank you very much for your clear answer.

I said in a post elsewhere that an understanding of the Trinity is not necessary to salvation, but that it is impossible to believe in the Lord Jesus without accepting albeit unconsciosly His Deity and the Deity of His Caretaker, the Holy Spirit.

I said also that as we develop in our faith and grow in understanding, we will (probably) question even the 'givens' in our Faith. But this questioning is still governed by Christ's hold upon us, so even a true Christian can be found without mental appreciation for the Trinity or they may be found rebelling against it but that rebellion is not sustained. It always leads to the crisis of mental appreciation or accurate, albeit incomplete, understanding of the Doctrine.

Thank you, bro, for your answer.

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi,

These questions are too much naw.....Abeg, professor take am easy naw, lolz. .

@ OP,

This Trinity has generated much heat recently. Many verses refutes the unitarians in the scripture. My only issue is against those who deny the deity of Christ as God, not the Father though and who deny the Holy Spirit as God and being distinct from the Father and the Son but rather say, the Holy Spirit is a Force or Power or whatever they call the Holy Spirit. Apostle Paul believed in "Trinity" even THOUGH THE WORD "Trinity" wasn't used by him. Apostle Paul who wrote most of the epistle that we quote and minister from says "the Father is God",

New International Version (©1984)
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you. Colossians 1:3

The same Apostle Paul calls Christ God,

New International Version (©1984)
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:5

The writer of Hebrews (I believe it's Apostle Paul though) clearly differentiate and gave a clear picture of "Trinity" EVEN THOUGH THE WORD "TRINITY" WASN'T USED. Take a look at this,

New International Version (©1984)
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:14

To the OP question, "Is The Trinity Foundational To Our Faith?". The simple answer is YES! However, it doesn't mean those who dont believe in Trinity are loved less by our heavenly Father. As a matter of truth without mincing words, ALL TRUE BELIEVERS ARE PART OF THE GODHEAD or TRINITY or GOD FAMILY. Hence, God family is MORE than Trinity. Glory to God. I will continue when I wake up. Thank you all.

lolll........ Please, my brother, pardon me for the technicality of the questions. I was only intent on proving the truth in the statement under examination. Please forgive me.

I appreciate your position. I hope I'll be able to return to the issue later. Blacking out again for awhile.