Hi y'all,
Have u ever read a poem and found yourself wondering "WHAT DA HECK WAS DAT??" ?? i tot so!
Its people like Archibald McLeish who say ", a poem should not mean but be" we should blame for that!
I write poetry and I feel everything worthy of the name POEM, should mean something of worth - - u know, not just beatiful nonsense!

what say ye?


****just got my collection of poetry published by Raider Pub. Int'l NY, USA, it should be available in Nigeria soon. You can check it out online or order from Amazon by hitting this link
http://www.amazon.com/Constellations-Thought-Jon-Adoga/dp/1934360538/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200987874&sr=1-1

It is those poems that simply want to be
that have alienated me from the genre so far.

But I still persevere. I am constructing one at the moment.

Is construction the right word

Doyin, I'm glad u weren't alienated for too long! howz construction work doin on ur site!?? just messin with you! I dont see anything wrong with the word in that context,

I wrote this in protest to the school of the "let the poem just be" ,

[center]If thy soul be of the wild and heavy
And your lips on fire with beauty
Take my brace child and hold steady
Here we chant not oft of our wrath
Near lain though to the jar broken
There; alas, a painter, a preacher and law
But sir if all that thy soul wishes
Borders not nigh to the broken pieces
And that these mean not, but just be;
Hang me now on Ars Poetica’s tree! [/center]

UNLIKE OTHER GENRES ,POETRY MUST BE AND ALSO MEAN. A NEW  REFRESHING FEELING OF REVERIE SHOULD SEIZE THE READER OF A GOOD POEM, HE SHOULD EXPERIENCE THE GREAT FUSION OF HIS SOUL, MIND AND SPIRIT IN THEIR QUEST TO DECIPHER THE MEANING OF THE POEM. I DO NOT SUSCRIBE TO ABSTRACT RUBBISH BUT ALSO A GOOD POEM SHOULD DAZZLE THE MIND OF THE READER AND LINGER IN HIS MIND FOR LONG.  THE POEM MAY USE SIMPLE WORDS BUT IMAGES AND SYMBOLS SHOULD BE ATLEAST CAPTIVATING. Adogas poem has beuty and rhyme . HAVE A BIT OF MINE.
WEB OF LOVE
(For sa’adat)

Didn’t the poet
Wear the sights of saints
To see beyond the face of the sun?

Didn’t the poet
Don the garb of mourning
To dance the kiss of death?

Didn’t the poet
Gulp the drink of madness
And sing the Song of Songs?

All, for the poetess’s sake?

Is that why
He Swaggered
Staggered
Tumbled
Rumbled
And crashed
Into the wilderness as   dust of dusk?

Could it equally be why?
He was slapped
Smashed
Chained
And hanged
Across the seven stakes in the WEB OF LOVE?

Way to go Zawrita! that rocks! if u go on writing stuff like this u might be on ur way to the Nobel prize! (ok maybe i'm just psychin' u, lol)
the thing u said about "dazzling" the mind of a reader, I'd say that's the difference between good poetry and regular prose, with poetry there's some room for "beautiful nonsense" while tryin' to convey a message,

I'm all for meanin in poetry.
It was the being that scared me away from it in
Secondary School
But sometimes it can be fun as a writer to hide or twist ur meanin
I'm attachin 1 of mine it's called Song of a Drunkard
It's quite long mind U

dude, e be like say u dey shack well well, lol, not bad I'd say

@zawrita

great poem

mischievous- - - - -I really like

Thanks a lot Jon Adoga & no , i no dey shack weeel, weeel?
i was just tryin to fit meself into a drunk's mind & know what he thinks

Check dis out,
I call it 'Not Good Enough
I have a confession
About my profession
I'm not a poet
I've nothing to show for it
I'd rhyme a word or two
But I'd get u bored or pooped
So let me shut my yap
And wish u were closer on this map
So the two of us could rap
Hey! Don't u just like word play
Till u come my way
What can i say
But have a nice day!

Got to Be Mean

Remember the days
When we were young and green
When we had to be told
What every poem should mean.
Trees could never be trees;
Had to be similes
And every clause
Had its own metaphors.

Then we grew up
And discovered hip-hop
Everything had to rhyme
Every day, every time.
In the beginning
Most of us ignored the meaning
'Cause flow was the only way
We had to go.

Now it's full circle again;
The battle of heart and brain
The verse versus the refrain.
Should poems be or mean?
What could a poem ever mean
If it's never been?

Copyright 2008 Winston C. Ikekeonwu

Hi y'all

poems can just be, and still mean just by being.

one classic

" hauling your head
this way and that way
as you clung to the sun
to the last shred of the exploded dawn
-in your fist

That Monday

(hughes, Night ride on Ariel)

And I
Am the Arrow
the dew that flies suicidal
at one with the ride into the red
-Eye, the cauldron of dawn"

(sylvia platt, Ariel)

these are actually 2 poems by the estranged couple. it doesnt seem to mean anything, but by being, it means a lot after sylvia platt died.

"dew that flies suicidal". brilliant.

Till Nature calls us all up, the issue of the essence of poetry will continue to flog academic literature.

While I would do my best not to be academic at all, i strongly believe that the holistic concept of "art for art sake" is substantial.

Many a persons want to create an art solely for the sake of creating an art. a good example is wen u create for a competition, . . .

Expression in any case, remains the main index of poetry. Therefore, that is the MEANING. As long as the writer has made an expression, it IS, so, it MEANS.

On the other hand, a poem might just be for a particular purpose; The poet takes into account the rules of the game and ensures his work fulfils all righteousness to have an "acceptable'' meaning.

Obviously because society is govern by a set of norms, fulfilling such norms usually attracts credence, and vice-versa. This is the crux of avant guardist artists. . .

Shortly, the sociology of literature remains that every aspect of society is mirrored in literature. Thus, nothingness is a meaning in itself. . .

So, let your poem BE. Create it. Leave the critique and the headache to the critics. That is the only way they can comfortably remain in business! Don't worry, they will help you give it a MEANING.


@ POSTER

I've some works I wish to publish, can you link me with your Archibald Mcleish. +234 01-2195050 or +2348060641635, or bttmonarchs@yahoo.com.

Ciao.

@ BTT

just beautiful - ", nothingness is a meaning in itself. . ." dat's just wonderful

I don't have any links to Mcleish - I just came across his writing and wasn't sooooo pleased. So many writers in the past had written on Ars poetica, but his just went down the wrong way. anyways, I was (self) published by Raider Int'l (NY USA), u can hit me for details.

@ Topic ^{(hey, it's my topic, lol)}this discourse is on, still on, TO BE OR TO MEAN?!?! thanx y'all

To Be or Not To Be, that is the question,

sometiimes i hate complex poetry

but i love it when ppple play on words too, does that count?

i wrote ds piece recently and i think its deep though not my everyday style

Lying hearts

So it is true
That when men stoop
Their heads can touch their scrotums

What wisdom exists
In the roundness of a fat fool’s belly
Cannot compare with that of a child
His belly is big and round, yes
Like a fura da nunu pot
Yes instead of milk
There are green algae
Decomposing slowly like a chameleon’s carcass
The same big bellies unite both beings

So it is true
That when a man looks beyond his nose
He sees his forehead

Even clowns dance in a king’s courtyard
Only when he wants to forget the enemies at his gates
So who fools who?
The jester who dances for the king’s money
Or the king who laughs in the face of war

So it is true
That when women go to war
Their breast milk turns sour

Women who dance like soldiers
And chant the songs of freedom
Only do so for their children
The ones who know them not
The ones who call other women “mother”
When they come home
With the spoils of war
So u hail their victory
Or hiss in shame?
What do we know?

Well, methinks you all are really gifted, but poetry should always makes sense, else it's just ramblings

@ Jesussfreak

Brilliant poetry; great philosophy.

Pls keep it up.

@JonAdoga

Hit me up pls. Sms 08060641635 for my email.

I believe a poem cannot just be cos every poetry has an essence or meaning, or seek to at least communicate behind it. so the question whether you understand the meaning or the communication was done.

again bear in mind that poetry is a means of expression of oneself and i may not wish to communicate it to anyone. so the most important thing is that the person writing the poem expresses himself and not that another person understand



check out
www.xclusivideas..com

I like!!! Your poem is very much about the reality of things. Nice

ppanther:

Got to Be Mean

Remember the days
When we were young and green
When we had to be told
What every poem should mean.
Trees could never be trees;
Had to be similes
And every clause
Had its own metaphors.

Then we grew up
And discovered hip-hop
Everything had to rhyme
Every day, every time.
In the beginning
Most of us ignored the meaning
'Cause flow was the only way
We had to go.

Now it's full circle again;
The battle of heart and brain
The verse versus the refrain.
Should poems be or mean?
What could a poem ever mean
If it's never been?

Copyright 2008 Winston C. Ikekeonwu