Joagbaje:

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

italo:

To Enigma and some other people, "Jesus is God" is the proposition that goes freely from Genesis to Revelation without contradicting other Bible portions.

To you and some others, it is the 'Jesus is not God' proposition that does so.



To Enigma and some others, "Jesus is not God" is the proposition that contradicts other Bible portions.

To you, it is the 'Jesus is God' proposition.

italo:

To Enigma and some other people, "Jesus is God" is the proposition that goes freely from Genesis to Revelation without contradicting other Bible portions.

To you and some others, it is the 'Jesus is not God' proposition that does so.



To Enigma and some others, "Jesus is not God" is the proposition that contradicts other Bible portions.

To you, it is the 'Jesus is God' proposition.

ogoamaka99: It seems that truthislight is still confused about opinion. I still repeat it, your interpretation of the BIBLE is based on personal opinion and the reason why there are differences in interpretation of the BIBLE is as a result of differences in opinion. I am still saying that your opinion are determined by YOUR FAITH, YOUR LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING, ETC . Look at what happened in Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; so that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, If you, being a Jew, live after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compel you the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Here Paul had confrontation with Peter over a doctrinal issue. This was so because PETER AND PAUL had differences over that issue.

italo: @ Ogoamaka and Truthislight,

Very true, there was a confrontation on a doctrinal matter.

But how did they solve it?

Ogoamaka has been saying that each man should act according to his own opinion. Is that what Peter and Paul did? Did Peter go away and continue to live according to his opinion, while Paul went away living according to his own opinion?

Truthislight has been saying that we should look at what the Bible says (even though he hasn't been able to defend what he means by "what the Bible says". Is that what Paul and Peter did? Did Peter and Paul search the Bible and come to an agreement on what it says?

How exactly did they solve this problem?

Perhaps we should learn from this Biblical example of solving doctrinal matters, shouldn't we?

italo: @ Ogoamaka and Truthislight,

Very true, there was a confrontation on a doctrinal matter.

But how did they solve it?

Ogoamaka has been saying that each man should act according to his own opinion. Is that what Peter and Paul did? Did Peter go away and continue to live according to his opinion, while Paul went away living according to his own opinion?

Truthislight has been saying that we should look at what the Bible says (even though he hasn't been able to defend what he means by "what the Bible says". Is that what Paul and Peter did? Did Peter and Paul search the Bible and come to an agreement on what it says?

How exactly did they solve this problem?

Perhaps we should learn from this Biblical example of solving doctrinal matters, shouldn't we?

truthislight:
well, then. At the end we get according to our choices/decission.

italo:

Should we take it that you don't know who has the authority to judge who is interpreting the Bible correctly and who is doing it wrong?

frosbel: Personally it is not to form different camps or groups or even to attract followers , that we start and discuss certain topics.

It has to do with standing on the Word of GOD and not the words of MEN.

For example the catholic church like the Mormons cannot operate on Sola scriptura alone, their doctrines are heavy laden with tradition , which has corrupted the TRUTH and made it of no effect.

I must be honest, in the past my views were with the majority such as tithe , trinity etc. However when I started to look into the bible to validate the factuality of these doctrines , scripture refused to support them and so I had to discard.

Our understanding of the bible must always be based on the truth of scripture , not the reasoning of Men.

truthislight:

Italio, your example is Good, but the incident in question took place befor the christian guide book the OT was written and it was those example and decission of this apostles that is the guide lines for christians today.

The OT covers all expects of a christians life that is necessary for his salvation.

"The things that were written affore times were written for our instructions"

ogoamaka99:
ITALO, you are still confusing issue about opinion. The choice you make in every thing not only religious matters are determined by your opinion. That is why what you choose, others may reject. And your choice is good or bad depending on your perception.

In christian community for instance, there are many pastors that ministers to hundreds of thousand every week. These people held these MOG in high esteem while in this forum few elements sees these men of GOD differently. The way you take a MOG is determined by the opinion you have about that MOG.

Our problem in this forum is that the opinion we have on any issue we tend to ENFORCE IT ON OTHERS.Anyone who sees it differently we take the person as not knowing any thing. I am saying that we should respect individual opinion.

italo:

So since you admit that Christians have been living Christian lives even before the NT was written, it means that one can live a good Christian life without the Bible. Yes or No?

At what point did the Bible then become, for you, the final authority on matters of faith? What year?

You said this example and decision is a guideline for Christians today? Are you sure you are following their example?

In Acts 15:1-31, you will see how the Apostles settled the dispute.

They called the first Church council and deliberated on the issue. Then Peter the head of the apostles declared his pronouncement and James confirmed it.

No argument, no reference to scripture, no individual interpretation of anything.

The Church hasn't changed till today. That is still how the Church settles doctrinal disputes and confusion. The last council was the Vatican II council. The Church is the Catholic Church.

truthislight:

there was no NT then, as such they the apostles were the authorities and it is this apostles that wrote the books called the NT

The NT writings are leters to christian congregations on how to conduct the church and the beliefs of the church thereof.

With this instructions the church is to operate.

This are the instructions of the apostles to christians and i stand by that.

Ubenedictus: did the apostles write to all the churches? Did they wish for their writting to be compiled? Did they wish to write without exception all they had received? Before 98ad the NT wasnt completed, before 385ad there was no generally accepted NT, So for over 300yrs the early church didnt have a bible. And today someone is telling me that the bible is d sole and final authority, were does the bible say so? Anytime i hear sumone talk about d SS doctrine i will tell that person it is unbiblical. Where did they get that from? That is a doctrine of men. What does 2 tim2:2 say?

truthislight:

this apostolic writings were hand copied from one congregation to another as paul commanded that they do.

He will ask them to collect from this congregation or that, or he will ask them to read the letter he sent to the other congregation.

Dont you read the bible to see this or you are just infested in saying that RCC gave us the bible?
*sigh*

Ihedinobi: I agree with italo.

There is one alone who holds all authority over the meanings of the Scriptures and all questions of life: the Lord God.

Saying the above means, ogoamaka, that the questions of life, whether Scriptural doctrine or whatever, are not open to private interpretation. You cannot say that colors are whatever we say they are. There is a definite color called red whether your eyes can perceive it or not. And the fact that some poor dude who is partially color-blind sees it as sort of grayish does not make it other than red, it just makes it indiscernible to him.

Now, even though that is the case, it is not Christ for anyone who perceives red to bully the color-blind guy into accepting the color to be red whether he can see it or not. There are two approaches open to the guy with better perception and they follow upon each other:

1. bear with the failings of the weak one and cover those failings just like soldiers protect the blind sides of one another in warfare. This does not mean to excuse such failures as though they were anything but. It means to rebuke the person and even in doing so, be very ready for every small sign that they are repenting and take hold of it to help them into the Truth.

2. be conscious that rebuke, whether soft/mild or sharp, is something that can either be accepted or rejected. So, if the brother/sister warned is unrepentant, they should be left alone, not bullied. Everyone has a right to reject God or accept Him. That is the ruling principle.


Now, as to how to know who is correct and is speaking the oracles (mind) of God (which is what prophecy is), we have the gift of reason. Among Christians, the faculty of reason is alive and well. Therefore, the Christians must powwow over every point of difficulty in living the Life of Christ. We are each given unique bits of the revelation of Christ. It is together that we come to see the whole picture, something Jesus meant when He spoke of being completely revealed in the midst of a gathering of two or three believers. If, for instance, a Christian falls upon the issue of tithing, it is very dangerous for him to sweep it under the carpet. He is better off discussing it with other brethren of his and being bold to put forth his arguments for it.

By the operation of reason governed by the Spirit of Christ, he will learn the truth through those whom the Lord had previously taught in the matter by experience. He will be able to see what is right or wrong with his arguments and right or wrong with his brothers' and sisters' argument. Thus, he is corrected and/or strengthened in the truth. Of course, it does not always happen all at once. It may take time but the sign of Christ is in the willingness of the brother to consider that he may be wrong. That willingness is what will help him recognize the lessons that the Holy Spirit will teach him in various experiences that will come his way with respect to the issue.

The sign of antichrist is simply a refusal to even consider that one is not the repository of all knowledge. At best, we are channels through which God pours out knowledge of Himself. We ourselves are not the source. But when one has been established in the truth regarding anything, that one can speak without wavering and his authority will be incontrovertible. BUT such an one is known by his pity and ability to accept rejection of the truth that he is in custody of without vengefulness.

In conclusion, it is indeed a matter of personal opinion, but opinion formed by the operation of the Holy Spirit through obedient experience and interaction with other believers. That is why the opinions of believers tend to agree.

Ubenedictus: in summary, there is truth and yet everybody sees d truth thru their different lens, from different perspectives. That doesnt mean the truth has changed it means it is hardly understood. At the end of the story everybody can only accept that which seem sensible to them, it is all opinion. I cant find a difference btw ur arguement and that of ogoamaka.

Ihedinobi:

Please reread the concluding paragraph. To explain that paragraph yet again, opinions are personal understanding or comprehension of matters. For this reason, one cannot be said to have understood any matter unless they can express a unique view of it. Personal opinion is not an enemy to the Gospel.

However, how opinions are formed determines their correctness. I said that the Christian's opinion is not formed in isolation. It is educated by the Holy Spirit through his brother and sister believers and through obedient experience, that is, obedience to the revelation/understanding he has received. Through these, he is corrected and his opinion shaped to the Truth.

As a result, he ends up in total agreement with the Lord and therefore with the Church.

Evidently then, I do not agree that varying opinions are acceptable in the Church. The unity of the Church is absolute, but it is not brought about by slavery.

Ihedinobi:
However, how opinions are formed determines their correctness. I said that the Christian's opinion is not formed in isolation. It is educated by the Holy Spirit through his brother and sister believers and through obedient experience, that is, obedience to the revelation/understanding he has received. Through these, he is corrected and his opinion shaped to the Truth.
.

italo:

When you say "The Church," which one are you talking about?

The Lord's Chosen, Christ Embassy, RCCG, Synagogue, Winners' Chapel, Household of God, House on the Rock, Assemblies of God, Deeper Life, Christ Apostolic Church, Celestial Church of Christ, Cherubim & Seraphim, Methodist, Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian etc?

Be specific and to the point; which Church?

italo:

When you say "The Church," which one are you talking about?

The Lord's Chosen, Christ Embassy, RCCG, Synagogue, Winners' Chapel, Household of God, House on the Rock, Assemblies of God, Deeper Life, Christ Apostolic Church, Celestial Church of Christ, Cherubim & Seraphim, Methodist, Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian etc?

Be specific and to the point; which Church?

Zikkyy:

What is the population of Christians with opinion of their own. Ogoamaka's opinion is the opinion of his/her pastor. This is one reason i am of the view your path to correctness will not be achieved 95% (or more) of the time. For most churches, what is correct is what the church leader(s) has taken as correct. Very few of posters actually come here with an opinion of their own.

My thoughts

ogoamaka99: My dear Ihedinobi, our different views in this thread is a result of our differences in opinion. You said that you agree with Italo and that is your opinion because another person may choose to disagree with italo.
Take for instance your illustration about red color, every body may see that the color is red but I may come and say that the color is gray and that is my opinion. I said that the color is gray not that it is gray but I perceived it to be gray. Another person may come and view the color differently.
Anyone who is seeing the color differently other than RED is expressing opinion and that is why I say that no matter how we view things is our personal opinion.

Ihedinobi:
We will learn through other believers and faithful obedience to the understanding we have received.

Zikkyy:

'faithful obedience to the understanding we have received'. Hmmm. what if the understanding is from a wrong source?

Ubenedictus: You are joking show me where the bible say all the congregation had all pauls letter, can you do that The fact remain nobody who wrote was interested in puting everything that was revealed in ink, read 2 tim2:2 and u will see how they transmitted the word of God.

i read the bible very well and only a person wu is ignorant of scriptures will tell me that paul was writting a bible wen he wrote. Besides i hate your tune, if u wish to discuss with me next time do not mention d rcc in a insultive way or i will be very interested in doing same with the ur kingdom halls and d watchtower. If u want to be respected learn to respect.

Ihedinobi:

I get what you're saying. However, people without their own personal appreciation of Christ are not reckoned with spiritually. See Daniel 11:32.

Also this "path of mine" is not really mine See Colossians 3:18 and Luke 16:10. Whether it works all the time or only sometimes, it is the only way. Where it fails it is not being followed.

We will not come to the fullness of Christ by either dependence or independence but by interdependence. We will learn through other believers and faithful obedience to the understanding we have received. There is no other path to the fullness of Christ.

truthislight:

Well, if you have not red where apostle paul ask that a letter he sent to one congregation be copied and sent to another, then i cant really help you, and not on this thread.
Peace

Ubenedictus: u are simply jumping, my question remains did every congregation have every of pauls letters? Give me an honest answer