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1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate - Politics (9) - Nairaland

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Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Dede1(m): 8:09pm On Oct 29, 2012
Obinoscopy:

That was the motive behind my volunteering to argue against the motion that it was a historical mistake. I know it would be difficult to argue against the motion but I chose to do it nevertheless. I did it not to win, after all even if I had won the debate that won't make Nigerians believe me, neither will it make 1914 amalgamation not to be a historical mistake. If you ask me, whether its a historical mistake or not is purely subjective. Its a thing of the mind. We are what we chose to believe.

I know Nigeria is really backward and I know one of the reasons is due to ethnic bigotry and nepotism. However I'm of the view that these ethnic bigotry is masterminded by corrupt leaders whose sole aim is to cling to power either by hook or by crook.

I believe Nigeria can work if we choose to make it work despite our ethnic diversities. If our leaders can give us good governance and enshrine social justice and if tolerance can be preached among Nigerians, Nigeria will be great. We need to be progressives and not retrogressives. The earlier we begin thinking in this direction, the better for all of us.


Obi, I have celebrated your attempt to convince Nigerians from the driest corner of the exercise centered on 1914 amalgamation of the protectorates was good hence Nigeria. The citation of USA and Somalia was typical example of the object that stood immovably against your plank. The British folks who joined forces with other Europeans to found USA were determined to customize USA with British culture and way of life. For example in 1882, Swedish Premier visited Maine, USA and was shocked to the bones his folks can no longer utter a word in Swedish. Somalia is even worse than Nigeria because of the irrevocable differences among the ethnic nationalists.

Some people still fall into the erroneous assumption that USA is diverse society. But closer look will definitely inform the undiscerning onlooker that USA mere outwardly look of Yellow, Blue, Black, White, Green and Red is artifical the main engine that drives the country is English or British acculturated way of life. Even the Italians, Germans, French and Spaniards lost out to the English or British culture. The 1914 amalgamation which gave rise to Nigeria had no good intentions toward the inhabitants. There is no dominant culture within the geographical expression known as Nigeria to pull everybody onboard. Nigeria is akin to a public house.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Genius100: 1:51am On Oct 30, 2012
For the first time, I'm proud of Nairaland. Isn't this what we should be doing instead of abusing each other over ethnic matters? I put the blame of the rot in Nairaland squarely on Seun and the moderators. Seun is proving to be an incompetent administrator. I will advise him to immediately enact a law banning all forms of ethnic baiting on Nairaland, Create a thread where ethnic baiting can be reported and ban all offenders.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 4:35am On Oct 30, 2012
After this, next debate should be:

[size=30pt]1906 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake?[/size]
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by kunlekunle: 5:15am On Oct 30, 2012
Obiagu1: After this, next debate should be:

[size=30pt]1906 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake?[/size]

You discussed this for almost a month before.
let it rest.

1 Like

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 6:55am On Oct 30, 2012
kunlekunle:

You discussed this for almost a month before.
let it rest.

It does not matter how long I have talked about it because "disillusioned people" have talked about 1914 amalgamation for how many years now "deliberately or ignorantly" ignoring the prior amalgamation. Maybe you know how long it has been going on.

Nigeria will remain doomed with our selective exposure and that bias will always affect our decision making and ruin any little progress we make.
When a nation is built on lies, kids deliberately brainwashed, adults blatantly tell lies, then I wonder how a clear vision going forward could be fashioned.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Nobody: 8:23am On Oct 30, 2012
Obiagu1:

It does not matter how long I have talked about it because "disillusioned people" have talked about 1914 amalgamation for how many years now "deliberately or ignorantly" ignoring the prior amalgamation. Maybe you know how long it has been going on.

Nigeria will remain doomed with our selective exposure and that bias will always affect our decision making and ruin any little progress we make.
When a nation is built on lies, kids deliberately brainwashed, adults blatantly tell lies, then I wonder how a clear vision going forward could be fashioned.

Please send a link to the thread on the 1906 amalgamation.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 2:36pm On Oct 30, 2012
HNosegbe:

Please send a link to the threadnon the 1906 amalgamation.

Link 1

Link 2
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 3:12pm On Oct 30, 2012
The main reason 1906 amalgamation was shielded and still being shielded from any debate is that it brings to light the fact that Yorubas were neither Southern Nigerians nor Northern Nigerians, hence non-Nigerians. Being who they are, they have craftily shielded that part of history, rather everyone lambastes the North, want them cut off from Nigeria, call their amalgamation with others a mistake but no one lambastes Yorubas.

I commend them for the good job they've done so far and some silly Igbos cannot see the bigger picture. Yoruba came from no where, Awolowo immediately started calling for creation of states for minorities because the then Lagos or Yorubaland had no minorities. When they succeeded in creating confusion, next was to try alienate the Igbo from their fellow Southern Nigerians by manufacturing all sorts of lies, distort history etc. Yet some silly Igbos have not asked, are Yorubas really Nigerians? What is their stake in this country?

How would someone that is not a Nigerian say Igbos claim other people all in the effort to create a division in Southern Nigeria they were not part of but thanks to that infamous 1906 amalgamation. How would the Igbo be claiming a part of their country, be it Southern Nigeria or Biafra
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by TheJourneY(m): 1:59am On Oct 31, 2012
I must say that this was quite a profound and exceedingly informative debate!!!! i learned a lot more than I would if I actually embarked on individually educating myself on the subject. More of the same is needed. Seun, major props for this. A great way for Nigerians across the globe to stay united and engage in such inspirational intellectual discourse about our home. Obinoscopy and Kats I hail you both! Looking forward to the next debate wink

2 Likes

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by kunlekunle: 6:48am On Oct 31, 2012
Obiagu1: The main reason 1906 amalgamation was shielded and still being shielded from any debate is that it brings to light the fact that Yorubas were neither Southern Nigerians nor Northern Nigerians, hence non-Nigerians. Being who they are, they have craftily shielded that part of history, rather everyone lambastes the North, want them cut off from Nigeria, call their amalgamation with others a mistake but no one lambastes Yorubas.

I commend them for the good job they've done so far and some silly Igbos cannot see the bigger picture. Yoruba came from no where, Awolowo immediately started calling for creation of states for minorities because the then Lagos or Yorubaland had no minorities. When they succeeded in creating confusion, next was to try alienate the Igbo from their fellow Southern Nigerians by manufacturing all sorts of lies, distort history etc. Yet some silly Igbos have not asked, are Yorubas really Nigerians? What is their stake in this country?

How would someone that is not a Nigerian say Igbos claim other people all in the effort to create a division in Southern Nigeria they were not part of but thanks to that infamous 1906 amalgamation. How would the Igbo be claiming a part of their country, be it Southern Nigeria or Biafra



we give thanks to lugard for bringing you guys together, he relieved you of village life and clandestine life.

the east was the first and easiest to conquer so you got the name first. alas it was coined mid 1890s, so 10 years after it became reality.

1 Like

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Nobody: 8:30am On Oct 31, 2012
Obiagu1:

Link 1

Link 2

Thank you.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by karfe(m): 1:41pm On Oct 31, 2012
Obiagu1: The main reason 1906 amalgamation was shielded and still being shielded from any debate is that it brings to light the fact that Yorubas were neither Southern Nigerians nor Northern Nigerians, hence non-Nigerians. Being who they are, they have craftily shielded that part of history, rather everyone lambastes the North, want them cut off from Nigeria, call their amalgamation with others a mistake but no one lambastes Yorubas.

I commend them for the good job they've done so far and some silly Igbos cannot see the bigger picture. Yoruba came from no where, Awolowo immediately started calling for creation of states for minorities because the then Lagos or Yorubaland had no minorities. When they succeeded in creating confusion, next was to try alienate the Igbo from their fellow Southern Nigerians by manufacturing all sorts of lies, distort history etc. Yet some silly Igbos have not asked, are Yorubas really Nigerians? What is their stake in this country?

How would someone that is not a Nigerian say Igbos claim other people all in the effort to create a division in Southern Nigeria they were not part of but thanks to that infamous 1906 amalgamation. How would the Igbo be claiming a part of their country, be it Southern Nigeria or Biafra
Exactly. Seems like only the 1914 exercise raises any eyebrows. if there has to be a discussion about it, there should also be one about all the other amalgamations preceding it. otherwise, we can accept the 1914 exercise and deal with the situation as it is today
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Katsumoto: 5:55pm On Oct 31, 2012
Obiagu1: The main reason 1906 amalgamation was shielded and still being shielded from any debate is that it brings to light the fact that Yorubas were neither Southern Nigerians nor Northern Nigerians, hence non-Nigerians. Being who they are, they have craftily shielded that part of history, rather everyone lambastes the North, want them cut off from Nigeria, call their amalgamation with others a mistake but no one lambastes Yorubas.

I commend them for the good job they've done so far and some silly Igbos cannot see the bigger picture. Yoruba came from no where, Awolowo immediately started calling for creation of states for minorities because the then Lagos or Yorubaland had no minorities. When they succeeded in creating confusion, next was to try alienate the Igbo from their fellow Southern Nigerians by manufacturing all sorts of lies, distort history etc. Yet some silly Igbos have not asked, are Yorubas really Nigerians? What is their stake in this country?

How would someone that is not a Nigerian say Igbos claim other people all in the effort to create a division in Southern Nigeria they were not part of but thanks to that infamous 1906 amalgamation. How would the Igbo be claiming a part of their country, be it Southern Nigeria or Biafra

I am sorry to say but the premise on which this argument is not only illogical but it betrays your anger towards the Yoruba. Let me explain.

First, the name Nigeria was derived from the River Niger and coined by the future Mrs Lugard. No one living in the geographical area of Nigeria was consulted before the name was adopted; neither the groups in the Northern, Southern protectorate or Lagos colony. This means the origin of the name was both artificial and without meaning.

Second, when the name was derived by Miss Shaw in an essay in 1897, the British were still trying to subdue various groups within Nigeria. North-West Nigeria under the Sokoto Caliphate was subdued in 1903. Due to the non-centralisation of power in Alaigbo, the British were still putting down pockets of resistance in 1906.

Third, there were 13 original colonies/states in the united states. Today, there are 50 states. Can someone from Maryland or Pennsylvania claim that he is more American than someone from Texas or California? Isn't it ironic that Texas and California have more electoral college votes than all the original 13 colonies/states?

Fourth, regardless of when a new part joins old parts of an existing country, at the point of entry through war or plebiscite, it theoretically has the same rights as the other parts.

It is rather moronic to suggest that some Nigerians (Northern & Southern) organized themselves, formed a new nation, and gave it a name while some other Nigerians (Lagos Colony) were begging to apply to be included.

The truth is that none of them had a say in the design, naming, and development giving rise to the new country. You would know that if the hate and bigotry in your heart didn't stop your brain from applying logic. Having read your post, I am more confident that Nigeria needs more Obinoscopy in power than Obiagu but unfortunately, it appears that there are more Obiaju in power.

6 Likes

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by NegroNtns(m): 7:21am On Nov 01, 2012
^^^^
Omg! grin grin grin
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by NegroNtns(m): 7:42am On Nov 01, 2012
Obiagu,

You will open a stinky can of worms with your preoccupation to discuss 1906 amalgamation.

I warn you to let it rest. Alaigbo was part of the Royal Niger chartered territories and it was brought into the Southern protectorate as well...

Igboland with Tiviland were chartered territories. Yorubaland was a colony, Hausaland was a protectorate and there was Niger Coastal (oil) protectorate.

Igboland was merged into the Niger coastal to form Southern protectorate with capital in Calabar.

Yoruba colony was brought in later and we were never called Southern protectorate. The merger was called The colony of Lagos and the Southern protectorate. Lagos and Calabar were capitals. Shortly after a third capital was added in Warri.

Leave the 1906 alone unless you want to cause distress to you and your fellows.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Katsumoto: 1:14pm On Nov 01, 2012
Negro_Ntns: ^^^^
Omg! grin grin grin

It's like another slave fighting with Kunta Kinta for the right to be called Tobi on the basis that he arrived at the slave farm 1 hour before Kunta.

What does it matter what slave name you are given, you have just lost your damn freedom?

3 Likes

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by NegroNtns(m): 5:42pm On Nov 01, 2012
Katsumoto:

It's like another slave fighting with Kunta Kinta for the right to be called Tobi on the basis that he arrived at the slave farm 1 hours before Kunta.

What does it matter what slave name you are given, you have just lost your damn ?

'will you shuddup!! cheesy

Hey Obiagu, erm, I mean....Tobey,

ignore Katz abeg, no mind am.....he's a badd a*s. angry
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Katsumoto: 7:48pm On Nov 01, 2012
Negro_Ntns:

'will you shuddup!! cheesy

Hey Obiagu, erm, I mean....Tobey,

ignore Katz abeg, no mind am.....he's a badd a*s. angry

grin grin grin
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by aljharem(m): 9:33pm On Nov 01, 2012
Katz and Obinoscope I am really impressed. Obinoscope you were really impressive I must say, the position you chose was not an easy one but still you debated in a logical manner.

Katz you are one man I can never debate with as far as history is concerned. You indeed know your facts. Would love to see more debates of this nature in the near future.

Omo you men are educated oh chai !!! grin
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by whitecat007: 2:38am On Nov 02, 2012
Where are you obiagu1? I can give you CPR.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 3:12am On Nov 02, 2012
Negro_Ntns: Obiagu,

You will open a stinky can of worms with your preoccupation to discuss 1906 amalgamation.

I warn you to let it rest. Alaigbo was part of the Royal Niger chartered territories and it was brought into the Southern protectorate as well...

Igboland with Tiviland were chartered territories. Yorubaland was a colony, Hausaland was a protectorate and there was Niger Coastal (oil) protectorate.

Igboland was merged into the Niger coastal to form Southern protectorate with capital in Calabar.

Yoruba colony was brought in later and we were never called Southern protectorate. The merger was called The colony of Lagos and the Southern protectorate. Lagos and Calabar were capitals. Shortly after a third capital was added in Warri.

Leave the 1906 alone unless you want to cause distress to you and your fellows.


Well it's a debate that should be put forward. You guys should stop whining about 1914 amalgamation, because we have issues with 1906 amalgamation too.
Igboland was never merged with any territory but had, from the beginning, been part of Niger Coast Protectorate that was renamed Southern Nigeria Protectorate when Northern Nigeria Protectorate was created as well in 1900.
Igboland had never been in any territory/Protectorate separate from Edoland or Efik land. The only part of Southern Nigeria, though they were not a protectorate then so cannot be called independent, was some part of Ijaw land.

Yorubaland was not part of us. Pure and simple.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 3:13am On Nov 02, 2012
whitecat007: Where are you obiagu1? I can give you CPR.

I'm not interested in Kats opinion because I'm not interested in Omogui.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 3:21am On Nov 02, 2012
The 3 protectorates that were amalgamated were Lagos (Yoruba land), Southern Nigeria (Igboland, Edoland, Efikland, Ijaw land, Ogoniland, southern half of Igalaland and Idomaland.)
Northern Nigeria was the rest of Nigeria.

The sequence of amalgamation was to merge the two Nigerias first, before Yoruba land (outsiders) but a few favoured the amalgamate of the smaller Lagos with Southern Nigeria, before amalgamating the 2 Nigerias. And here we are, Yorubas screaming about 1914 amalgamation while ignoring that they are not Nigerians in the first place.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Nobody: 3:28am On Nov 02, 2012
Obiagu1:

I'm not interest in Kats opinion because I'm not interest in Omogui.


grin grin grin grin grin

2 Likes

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by PhysicsQED(m): 4:45am On Nov 02, 2012
Obiagu, the point Negro Ntns is getting at, which you seem to have missed, is that other territories were amalgamated with the Oil Rivers/Niger Coast Protectorate, before it was renamed the protectorate of Southern Nigeria. Some of these were in Igboland, others were in other parts of southern Nigeria. And the RNC chartered territories in the south were merged ('amalgamated') with the Niger Coast Protectorate before it was renamed the Southern Nigeria protectorate. For example, Asaba and Onitsha were not really part of the Niger Coast Protectorate before the 1900 amalgamation.

1 Like

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by NegroNtns(m): 5:19am On Nov 02, 2012
PhysicsQED: Obiagu, the point Negro Ntns is getting at, which you seem to have missed, is that other territories were amalgamated with the Oil Rivers/Niger Coast Protectorate, before it was renamed the protectorate of Southern Nigeria. Some of these were in Igboland, others were in other parts of southern Nigeria. And the RNC chartered territories in the south were merged ('amalgamated') with the Niger Coast Protectorate before it was renamed the Southern Nigeria protectorate. For example, Asaba and Onitsha were not really part of the Niger Coast Protectorate before the 1900 amalgamation.

.....the Bini Prince is back. Thanks, yes thats what im saying.....there were two entities merged to form Southern protectorate, you were either in the Niger Coast or you were in chartered territory.

The argument Obiagu makes about Yoruba being an import applies also to Igbo being imported into an already established system of government sovereingty. This is why Katz used the Tobey analog.y

To stretch it further, Obiagu has a startling discovery waiting if he should probe into reasons why none of the three Souther capitals was located in Igboland.

1 Like

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 6:40am On Nov 02, 2012
PhysicsQED: Obiagu, the point Negro Ntns is getting at, which you seem to have missed, is that other territories were amalgamated with the Oil Rivers/Niger Coast Protectorate, before it was renamed the protectorate of Southern Nigeria. Some of these were in Igboland, others were in other parts of southern Nigeria. And the RNC chartered territories in the south were merged ('amalgamated') with the Niger Coast Protectorate before it was renamed the Southern Nigeria protectorate. For example, Asaba and Onitsha were not really part of the Niger Coast Protectorate before the 1900 amalgamation.

We've gone through this before, didn't we?
You have nothing new. No territory that was not a protectorate was amalgamated, rather territories were acquired till the finally boundaries were drawn up in 1900.
It was in 1900 that the 3 protectorates were born (Lagos was already a protectorate then). Officially, Yorubaland was not Nigeria.

[size=16pt]After that, talk of amalgamation of the 2 Nigerias began not before 1900.[/size]
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 6:49am On Nov 02, 2012
These are the 3 protectorates we had in 1900 when all territories in Nigeria were under a protectorate.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/789954_480317_4359667628276_1152914446_n_jpgb7f450f3191b1c2360cb674fc5f97a67
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by PhysicsQED(m): 6:55am On Nov 02, 2012
We have gone through this before. What I tried to get you to understand, and what you still don't seem to understand, is that the Niger Coast Protectorate was amalgamated with some other territories to form the protectorate of Southern Nigeria in 1900. I don't understand why this is such a difficult thing to understand. I provided you with one source before which rightly described it as an amalgamation, which it was, but you insist on claiming that these territories were "acquired" as if they were ever part of the Niger Coast Protectorate. They were not. That's the point.

1 Like

Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 6:55am On Nov 02, 2012
It was in 1900s that talk of amalgamation of Northern Nigeria and Southern Nigeria began. Lagos was just a neighbouring British Protectorate.
Some at the colonial office were in favour of adding Lagos to Nigeria, else Yorubaland would have NEVER joined Nigeria like Southern Cameroun join Nigeria.
Re: 1914 Amalgamation - A Historical Mistake? : Nairaland Political Debate by Obiagu1(m): 6:57am On Nov 02, 2012
PhysicsQED: We have gone through this before. What I tried to get you to understand, and what you still don't seem to understand, is that the Niger Coast Protectorate was amalgamated with some other territories to form the protectorate of Southern Nigeria in 1900. I don't understand why this is such a difficult thing to understand. I provided you with one source before which rightly described it as an amalgamation, which it was, but you insist on claiming that these territories were "acquired" as if they were ever part of the Niger Coast Protectorate. They were not. That's the point.

You sound too dumb. I asked you then to provide a link that said territories in Southern Nigeria were amalgamated but you provided none, yet you keep talking crap trying to "define" amalgamation.

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