My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection - Religion (19) - Nairaland
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| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 12:43pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: ^^^And you are saying it ---- out of sheer ignorance. And the willful variety, very likely. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 1:13pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: ^^^And you are saying it ---- out of sheer ignorance. I will give ONE example, the Arians. They were not involved in the compilation of the bible, and were labelled heretics by the Catholics. Not to speak of the countless gnostic groups scattered across Asia Minor |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 1:31pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
^^^ The bible was "compiled" before the Arian controversy and before the separation into "Arians" and "Trinitarians". That is why the "Trinitarians" and the "Arians" were debating the contents of the Bible at Nicea. Try another one --- or more importantly, try and inform yourself.  1 Like |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 2:25pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: ^^^ The bible was "compiled" before the Arian controversy and before the separation into "Arians" and "Trinitarians". The issue at the council of Nicaea wasn't on trinity, cos the Holy Spirit was not discussed, rather just the relationship between Jesus and God. Though it became the precursor agreement for Trinity. And neither did they discuss the contents of the Bible. Note that the Council of Nicaea meeting (1st) was 325AD while the Council of Laodicea, first council to compile/canonize the Bible was 363. So obviously your above post is wrong. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 2:27pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
But they were using texts - several texts - from the Bible to present their respective points and arguments at Nicea. Hence, the Bible had already been "compiled" by then. Simples. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 2:30pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: But they were using texts - several texts - from the Bible to present their respective points and arguments at Nicea. *SMH* The Bible was not in existent, hence texts which the debaters made reference to were popular/recognized texts standing on their own. Not texts with legitimacy. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 2:41pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
^^^ Gross ignorance; not really worth wasting my time on. Read the various threads where we have discussed parts of the history of the Bible; or go and read up generally on the history of the Bible/ I remember that I have also in the past told you of different Bible "canons" --- and even gave you a link for reference. Take my advice, go and educate yourself! |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 3:01pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
^^^ I don't enjoy name calling and et cetera, however you made the claims you can't stand by. You claimed there was a compilation of books that are the authority of Christianity canonized at a date prior to the Council of Nicaea, unfortunately History stands against you, you resort to a very vague definition of the Bible, and contents of which don't represent Christianity. (Hebrew Bible) I saw your links and I made my objections clear, if your definition of bible is taken, then you'd create such a confusion that you'd be effectively talking about nothing. The word "Bible" ought to have a clear and well defined meaning not represent "Hebrew Bible" "Mormon Bible" "Ethiopian Bible" all at once. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 3:03pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
^^^ Let me ask you a question: what is the Bible of the Ethiopean Church?  |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 3:09pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
This is getting annoying! The use of the word "Bible" has a concise, specific reference to the books which collectively constitute a foundational guide/authority for catholic/protestant Christianity. Every sensible man on the streets carries that notion. The Bible is the book of the Christians. Simple. Because there is a book called the Mormon Bible doesn't make it the Bible. It is so clear!! The Torah is called the Hebrew Bible cos of it similarity in structure and function with the Bible. And not that Jews call it that. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 3:14pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
The Ethiopean Christians are Christians ---- so what is their Bible? |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 3:22pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
To help my friend once again, here is part of a post I made earlier on this thread! From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible The Bible (from Koine Greek τὰ βιβλία, tà biblía, "the books" ) is a canonical collection of texts considered sacred in Judaism or Christianity. Different religious groups include different books within their canons, in different orders, and sometimes divide or combine books, or incorporate additional material into canonical books. Christian Bibles range from the sixty-six books of the Protestant canon to the eighty-one books of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church canon. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 3:37pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Did I perchance mention anything about the wilful variety of ignorance?  Oh yeah, I did! |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 3:38pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
 I bin jos do like say I no see! |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 4:26pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: To help my friend once again, here is part of a post I made earlier on this thread!1. what Bible were you talking about that was compiled/canonized prior to the Council of Nicaea? 2. In your belief, is Bible limited to Christianity? |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 4:32pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Kay 17: I once told you (earlier on the thread) about the Septuagint and also the Hebrew Bible. Were these called "Bible" or not? Is the Hebrew Bible still called "Bible" or not? I even also told you about the "specialness" of the Septuagint and that expression "the Bible"! Have you looked into those any further? I wonder how you can ask me both of those questions - especially question 2 - after my explanations to you on about page 10 of this very thread! |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 4:47pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Why am I even wasting my time for God's good sake?  You have already said that even the book being used by the vast majority of Christians in the West (i.e. non Roman Catholics) is not "the Bible". The exchange below is from about page 7 onwards.Enigma: ^^^ Kay 17: The one popularly known as the Catholic Bible. Enigma: ^^^ So, the book being used by the vast majority of non Roman Catholic Christians is not "the Bible", then? Kay 17: Enigma: Kay 17: Cos of the subtraction. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 5:34pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: Question 1 still subsists. As to Question 2, clearly you have widely and wildly applied the use of Bible beyond Christianity to the point of absurdity. What concise meaning will bible have other than mere doctrinal/religious texts. Of which it stops making sense. Your wild usage covers Judaism, Mormonism (non Christian obviously), Hinduism, ultraextreme Christian sects (Rastaferianism), and any religious sect that has a piece of paper with the most minimal religious instructions. The Bible is exclusively Christian, and its sum total demonstrate Christian doctrines, Christian History and the Christian experience. Any other description that falls short can not be a Bible. If I was to follow your madness, there is nothing other than language barrier that stops you from referring to the Quran as the Muslim Bible! |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 5:36pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
The book that non Roman Catholics use i.e. the one that has 66 instead of 73 books ------ is that "The Bible" or not? |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 5:43pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: The book that non Roman Catholics use i.e. the one that has 66 instead of 73 books ------ is that "The Bible" or not?very much, as long as it sufficiently encompasses the Christian Experience. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 5:43pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Always a challenge to try to discuss with people unwilling to use their heads. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 5:45pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Kay 17: very much, as long as it sufficiently encompasses the Christian Experience. Uh, is this a "yes" or a "no"? |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 5:50pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Kay 17: very much, as long as it sufficiently encompasses the Christian Experience. I too want to express being Let me get you right. First of all, you have now done a total, complete, 360 degrees, full U-turn! Because, you had said clearly that the non Roman Catholic book is not "the Bible"? But even more than that, now look at the implication of what you are saying presently. 1. The non-Roman Catholic i.e. "Protestant" book of 66 books is "the Bible". 2. The Roman Catholic book of 73 books is also "the Bible". If that is the case, what about the Ethiopean book of 81 books? Can you now still say that one is not "the Bible"? |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by ikeugbo(m): 5:53pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
something is wrong in all this, people arguing over a scripture they never wrote, people trying to justify actions they came to inherit, and then we now bash other christians because they are not catholics, GOD forbid what is going on here, first of all let me ask you 1. When JESUS preached did he contradict the law or say I have come to fulfil the law HE made reference to the old testaments, do our actions contradict or buttress what is in the scripture 2. If JESUS preached to the spirits in prison as. The reason to justify purgatory who is preaching to the ones there now, or does Christ have a ministry of preaching still 3. Are we saying that sins varies, pls if so tell me the small sins so that I can commit those ones so as to go to purgatory 4. Eze 18: 20-32 tells us of the soul that sinneth shall die then where is the options of punishment in purgatory 5. GOD is the same yesterday, today and forever rev 1:5 HE cannot change, thou shall not bow down to any idol exo 20:3-4, again we must not make any graven image or likeness of anything in heaven above or earth beneath even GOD Himself is in heaven too, those images are they from space, he wants us to worship HIM in spirit and truth The guy who started the thread I expect you to pray to GOD about your fears or confusion, if HE says move obey once don't look back, if HE says stay and pray for them brother do it quick, HIS coming is at hand and we are occupied with trivial issues, GOD forbid the kind of heaven we would make of it, I beg to differ Even if the lie runs for 10000 yrs the truth will overtake it one day either now or at the judgement seat of Christ. If GOD wants anything added to the bible then why is rev 22: 18-19 doing there then, he would have siad watch out for more revelations Any revelations contrary to the one written in the bible is but a lie, do we have a confused GOD who changes mouth then where is the place of GOD not changing ONE with a shadow of turning or variableness. I pray GOD reveals the truth (JESUS) to you all if not we would loose our way and end up in destruction |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 8:40pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Ubenedictus: the church does.Theoritically and practically speaking this is wrong. You don't know ubenedictus that for heresy to exist, their has to be some underlying belief factors it deviates from. The church never made up this necessary belief factors, but by the union with christ came to their realization . In other words, there are laid down rules which serve to decide what should be termed heresy. You sounded like the body is still almighty without the head. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 9:13pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: I see the Protestant Bible merely has fewer books than the Catholic Bible, I see the Catholic Bible as the original, and as what was intended by the Catholic; while the Protestant B is a poor man's version. Its incomplete. My major disagreement with you was concerning the Hebrew Bible, accepted as the foundation for Christianity in its early days. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 9:17pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
^^^ And since the Ethiopean Bible has 81 books, it is the "original", it is "what was intended"; the Roman Catholic Bible is "a poor man's version"; it is "incomplete". See how that works!  |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Enigma(m): 9:22pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
By the way, shouldn't I have said 180 degrees U-turn or 360 degrees about-turn? Any ways me and Maths eh? 7 x 13 = 28. I'll get me coat. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 9:38pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
^^^ lol |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 9:42pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Kay 17: Enigma |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 9:43pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Kay 17: A bible literally means a collection of books/scrolls. However we are not discussing a random collection or anthology, we are referring to the foundational guide of Christianity. |
| Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 9:45pm On Mar 26, 2013 |
Enigma: ^^^ And a "foundational guide" (in the sense you are using the phrase) of Christianity that was the first to be called "the Bible" is The Septuagint. |
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