Originalsly: The marriage vow quoted left right and centre is not Biblical period. People can explain how much they want but can they point it in any scripture? It is a man made vow....pagan....same as praying to Mary. I guess people keep repeating it so much that now so many believe it is somewhere in the Bible....same as those who keep repeating God hates divorce when the Bible clearly states under what conditions a man can divorce his wife and what should not happen after divorce. About abuse... although the Bible does not specify abuse.....I think it advise that you basically separate and may reunite again. However, if you become involved with someone else you are committing adulrery.

A law is a law! So it will be better if you specify the separation idea as yours.If the bible does not mention marital abuse,should divorcees on that ground be judged by the same scriptures?

pak:

I am giving you a mental round of applause for this statement. You actually don't know how brilliant this assertion is but surely one of the most impressive sentences I've read in my long years on NL.
Infact, let me stretch it a bit . . . that's one of the truest statements since Peter called Jesus the Son of God.
The first time I heard this was from a very intellectual and kinda spiritual 'somebody', you'r the second. BRILLIANT !!!


not necessarily, not neccessarily there are can be so many scenarios that might have a lot of different ways of resolving them. And by the way, is there a yardstick for determining wrong and right beginnings for marriage ?? (Note: the couple that just celebrated 80 yrs of marriage got hooked when they were 17 and 21 respectively, they ran away from home to stay together - in this age that would be seen as a foolish decision based on infatuation by immature young ppl a.k.a. wrong foundation but guess what ? they lasted 80 years)



I concur

i'll reply you later, opening this thread and having ur comment jump at me left me blushing...i'll reply your second comment later.

[size=14]To know about Christian divorce, see[/size] https://www.nairaland.com/1096736/conditions-divorce-christianity-some-legal

TCD: Long Suffering is one of the fruits of the spirit

9lifes:

please what is long suffering?

Worrying query, very worrying query

9lifes:

well i stated that from the beginning. This thread is about the vow,god or the bible and marital abuse?Well i guess you don't have a scripture for or against divorce based on marital abuse. Yes a perfect relationship is not easy to maintain,and people like you are always hard on divorcees and reasons are not important to you,so you should be able to prove your points against any reason for divorce.

It is easy to quote scriptures from outside the fire.What will you do if your sister,mother,father,brother or kid is a victim of abuse?

1st Peter 3:16-25
 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 “He committed no sin,
    and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed...







Slaves too are someone else's Sister, Mother, Father, Brother or kid, yet see what the Bible says when their Master is beating them up there Moreover, Ist Peter 3:1 that follows has "likewise" in its instruction for wives, "in addition" to telling them to be submissive. Are you now gonna claim the rule to endure as Christ did is only applicable to slaves because they go to a seperate heaven


Aren't Christians supposed to obey God by faith and not feelings?


Aren't there many calls to deny self and follow Christ?


Didn't the book of Luke say whoever does not wanna bear his cross and come after him cannot be his follower!


Are there no longer passages in the Bible that talks about Jesus bearing our infirmities, yet without sin.


In 2nd Corinthians we are told His grace is sufficient...and that his strength is made perfect in our weakness


Didn't Hebrew say to look upto Jesus the Author who was tortured and endured because of the joy set before him with the promise of eternal life.


Doesn't the Bible always say he came for the brokenhearted?


Did the same Bible not say it is better not to marry in order to make Heaven WHICH IS WHAT "IT" IS ALL ABOUT?



Might be back, my hand hurts...first time in history

9lifes: So no scriptures on marital abuse and divorcing on that ground?

Should people who divorce based on grounds of abuse be judged by Matt19v4-8 and other bible portions that are solely based on adultery?

And what happens to a man or woman when their partners fail to meet god's expectations in marriage?

The problem with people is that,they don't go beyond quoting scriptures and what they are told? If you are quoting scriptures,give some logical response to the subject and stop quoting out of context.

Again this thread is about marital abuse,divorce base on abuse,vows and what the bible has to say about it?

And your point is? From your user name, you are male. Are you in an abusive relationship? No. Your questions are basically hypothetical. Those who feel it know it and many marriages have survived and improved even though the couple had such a challenge early in the relationship.
With surviving, I don't mean the woman meekly took on the beatings. I mean she identified what the triggers were for the man and worked on herself and with him to remove those triggers.
Nobody is judging divorcees. They are often the ones at pain to explain to whoever will listen why their marriages crashed. I have a friend who is divorced. She's always trying to explain her own role in the rift. Maybe talking that way is therapeutic for her, otherwise, she is inwardly blaming herself that she could've handled their differences better, especially since the happiness of 3 children is concerned. One who had separated from her husband for 6 years and had vowed never to go back because he was physically and verbally abusive has just made up with him and is sounding sooooo happy!
Divorce? NEVER! Separation? MAYBE! But no remarrying

9lifes:

A law is a law! So it will be better if you specify the separation idea as yours.If the bible does not mention marital abuse,should divorcees on that ground be judged by the same scriptures?

What law?..are you referring to the marriage vow? A vow is a promise...not a law. Separation is not my idea.....is basically what the Bible suggest we do when fhings are not working out.

pak:

I am giving you a mental round of applause for this statement. You actually don't know how brilliant this assertion is but surely one of the most impressive sentences I've read in my long years on NL.
Infact, let me stretch it a bit . . . that's one of the truest statements since Peter called Jesus the Son of God.
The first time I heard this was from a very intellectual and kinda spiritual 'somebody', you'r the second. BRILLIANT !!!


not necessarily, not neccessarily there are can be so many scenarios that might have a lot of different ways of resolving them. And by the way, is there a yardstick for determining wrong and right beginnings for marriage ?? (Note: the couple that just celebrated 80 yrs of marriage got hooked when they were 17 and 21 respectively, they ran away from home to stay together - in this age that would be seen as a foolish decision based on infatuation by immature young ppl a.k.a. wrong foundation but guess what ? they lasted 80 years)



I concur

d basis of attraction in a marriage is what will determine its longevity u know...so if two people are attracted to each other, they are d only ones dt know d exact thing dt struck their fancy! And dt becomes their base/foundation, so if it be not strong, then when d wind of life blows, it shall surely fall and with its fall comes abuse of all kinds, methinks...going by ur example, maybe d basis of their attraction was right but people around didn't think so...hence d 'lastingness'

ATMC: d basis of attraction in a marriage is what will determine its longevity u know...so if two people are attracted to each other, they are d only ones dt know d exact thing dt struck their fancy! And dt becomes their base/foundation, so if it be not strong, then when d wind of life blows, it shall surely fall and with its fall comes abuse of all kinds, methinks... going by ur example, maybe d basis of their attraction was right but people around didn't think so...hence d 'lastingness'

aaaah 'ATM Chick',
You indeed are like Peter - You call Jesus the Son of God in one moment, the next moment you make a statement that calls for censure

Attraction is ephemeral, any marriage built on attraction (alone) will surely crash in a short time.

I don't know if you'r married ?? but I think a union should be built on much sterner stuff than that.


Come to think of it, How attracted were our parents to each other when they got married ? and how come their marriages lasted better and we heard less gory stories from their generation.

Love (me thinks, I am not a counselor) is more of a decision than a feeling.

and you talked about abuse . . . . Abuse has less to do with love or no love. It'ss more of a product of deficiency in character and a broken value system. When you meet a 'something wrong in the head' kind of man/woman, He/she will abuse you whether they love you or not.


Let me leave you with two thoughts

1. The nugget from the '80 year marriage' woman - "Get along. Compromise. Live within your means and be content,"

2. The fact that we (you and I) don't even agree on what constitutes wrong foundation shows that generalizing on what should be done to marriages with a 'wrong foundation' is wrong. Regardless, I think couples should just try their best to make their marriages work, however they find themselves in it. There are no hard and fast rules. Every situation should be treated based om its own merit.

We are saying d same thing in different ways...attraction is not completely ephemeral. Attraction is not just beauty, character can be d attraction. Meanwhile how do you start a relationship without being attracted to d person? There must be a kickstart, it can be intrisic or external: intelligence or beauty.
By sterner stuff, you mean?
Comparing our fathers to us is not ideal because no two generations are d same otherwise there's no progress. So long as change remains permanent, every generation must experience it.
I agree dt love is a decision,(choice), it also has a relationship with feeling in dt it expresses itself via feeling. D root of abuse is ignorance. D solution to marital issues is getting d mind tutored...by the way i aint pe'ra

9lifes: I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

I have seen on Nairaland land how some are hostile to people who escaped marital abuse,and their arguments are based on ambiguous religious grounds because I am yet to get a concrete explanation for their stance.

They say divorce is against the will of god,and it is a dishonor to ones marriage vows. So I have two questions for the house

1.What is god's will for an abused spouse?
2.Are marriage vows traditional,cultural or religious things?

Please no attack on anyone,if you don't agree with someones view,politely state your points.The floor is open!

Marriage vows have nothing to do with tradition or religion, like most every other vow you make in life. Your vow to be an upright citizen of your country for instance, have nothing to do with your tradition or religion but a personal contract you sign with another and is witnessed by others. In the case of marriage, if Christian, God is said to be witness of that covenant, and if traditionalist, your gods are said to be the witnesses of that covenant and can be called on to stand against you, should you decide to break or deny the contract you made.

If you swore the Hippocratic oath, for instance, in front of a bunch of senior physicians, and administrators. The day you break that oath, which you really made to your self, they(the senior physicians and administrators) will likely be among those who help ensure that the penalties for breaking the oath you took are enforced. Again, even though you took the oath of your own.

Kobojunkie:

Marriage vows have nothing to do with tradition or religion, like most every other vow you make in life. Your vow to be an upright citizen of your country for instance, have nothing to do with your tradition or religion but a personal contract you sign with another and is witnessed by others. In the case of marriage, if Christian, God is said to be witness of that covenant, and if traditionalist, your gods are said to be the witnesses of that covenant and can be called on to stand against you, should you decide to break or deny the contract you made.

If you swore the Hippocratic oath, for instance, in front of a bunch of senior physicians, and administrators. The day you break that oath, which you really made to your self, they(the senior physicians and administrators) will likely be among those who help ensure that the penalties for breaking the oath you took are enforced. Again, even though you took the oath of your own.

You forgot to add the conditions between the parties involved.Marriage vows are taken on the grounds of trust,love,acceptance e.t.c. Like i said earlier, sometimes these conditions are not stated clearly or openly,prenup is different thing,but once trust,love and all other conditions are broken do you think the vow is void and null?

Why will someone abuse his/her partner if love or trust exist?why will someone claim to keep a vow when the love and trust that puts one in a state of safety is gone?may be we should start adding abuse to prenups and marriage vows..and here is a sample...lol

I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death and/or abuse do us part.And as long as a live, I will continue to give you updates on what constitute abuse,so help me god.

its a shame we will twist anything to favor what we are used to.Yes abuse is relative,but the question remains,can we judge divorcees on the grounds of abuse using bible scriptures that cover adultery alone,or is there a portion of the bible that talks about marital abuse?

One more thing,is there a vow without conditions whether acknowledge or not?

9lifes:

You forgot to add the conditions between the parties involved.Marriage vows are taken on the grounds of trust,love,acceptance e.t.c. Like i said earlier, sometimes these conditions are not stated clearly or openly,prenup is different thing,but once trust,love and all other conditions are broken do you think the vow is void and null?

You mistake is you are trying to generalize here. Not all marriages are based on love, trust, acceptance and whatever mushy thing you come up with next. There are marriages solely for business purposes; Marriages that are simply agreements between adults who are willing to enter into a bond of some kind.

The conditions you list have NOTHING to do with the actual contract of marriage but more beliefs of individuals in the marriage. If two married people loose trust, love, and acceptance for each other, they are still married. It is not until they officially decide to break/annul the actual marriage contract which they signed, not to each other but really to the state, will they then be considered NOT MARRIED.

9lifes:
Why will someone abuse his/her partner if love or trust exist?why will someone claim to keep a vow when the love and trust that puts one in a state of safety is gone?may be we should start adding abuse to prenups and marriage vows..and here is a sample...lol

Like I said, all this talk na jibby-jabber. Love and trust are all in the minds . . . not official measure of those and so it is up to the individuals who signed the contract to decide on their own, how much of they want to invest and get. No agreement is signed on that and so it technically has little or nothing to do with the actual ceremony of marriage.

9lifes:
I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death and/or abuse do us part.And as long as a live, I will continue to give you updates on what constitute abuse,so help me god.

The above is a marriage vow . . . not the marriage contract itself.

9lifes:
One more thing,is there a vow without conditions whether acknowledge or not?

Yes, there are such vows . . . millions of people make those every January 1st.

Kobojunkie:
You mistake is you are trying to generalize here. Not all marriages are based on love, trust, acceptance and whatever mushy thing you come up with next. There are marriages solely for business purposes; Marriages that are simply agreements between adults who are willing to enter into a bond of some kind.

The conditions you list have NOTHING to do with the actual contract of marriage but more beliefs of individuals in the marriage. If two married people loose trust, love, and acceptance for each other, they are still married. It is not until they officially decide to break/annul the actual marriage contract which they signed, not to each other but really to the state, will they then be considered NOT MARRIED.



Like I said, all this talk na jibby-jabber. Love and trust are all in the minds . . . not official measure of those and so it is up to the individuals who signed the contract to decide on their own, how much of they want to invest and get. No agreement is signed on that and so it technically has little or nothing to do with the actual ceremony of marriage.


The above is a marriage vow . . . not the marriage contract itself.


Yes, there are such vows . . . millions of people make those every January 1st.

lol..one of the best response so far,thanks for a balance view.What is your take on divorce on the grounds of abuse,and the biblical implications if you are a christian?