Reconciliation for divorce couples might be rare, but it does happen. In islam Divorce on the part of Man is quite easy, a husband can easily divorce his wife through 'SMS.', see this story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3100143.stm or just by uttering the word talaq three times even on phone! In one Islamic site, a young female student was divorced by her husband in a heat of rage via telephone and she was seeking the advice of Muslim scholars.(I had to cut it short for the sake of brevity)

My husband said talaaq to me three times, my marriage got 1 year and we dont saty wid each other but sometimes i went to meet him before but he said talaaq three times in phone, we both got into argument about other girl,i asked him whether he married her or not he was saying no no and then to i was asking him continuously he is very short-tempered and he got angry very badly and he attempted talaaq words three times, and then we stopped talking to each other ther after 1 month now he called me and h was apologizing that he was in extreme anger and he evendidnt mean it and now he wants e back in his life even i love him very much, i m not performing iddah as i m student, please help me and tell me what we can do now, are we actually divorced or not, if yes then now how can we come together please answer me please.....

They replied

Your statement: please help me and tell me what we can do now, are we actually divorced or not, if yes then now how can we come together please answer me please....

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 230: 230 So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably) he cannot after that remarry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either ofthem if they reunite provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah which He makes plain to those who understand.

To prevent making a mockery of the sacred institution of marriage and the rights of the woman, where the man divorces his wife and marries her again and again, Islam imposed the two-strike rule whereby a husband is allowed to divorce and remarry the same woman again only twice in any one marriage. If the husband divorces his wife for the third time, it would constitute an irrevocable divorcein the Sight of Shariah Law and it would be impermissible for the man to marry the same woman again unless and until she (perchance)marries another man, consummates the marriage, and the new husband were to die, or of his own will divorce her.
http://www.islamhelpline.com/qa/three-divorce-anger

I wonder kind of mockery Allah is trying to prevent or the women rights he's protecting by asking a divorced woman to marry and sleep with another man before she can get back to former husband. So If in the heat of rage like in this young girl's case you utter the word talaq three times to your wife, you can no longer remarry her until someone else marries her, takes her to bed and enjoys her for some times and then if he divorces her you can take the mother of your children home and she will become lawful to you again. Is this sound, sane and rational?

It may be rare that a divorced couple would like to reconcile and remarry each other, but this does happen.

The Quran has a strange marriage law for the divorced couple in this situation, after they have worked out their differences. It says that a divorced couple may remarry each other if and only if the wife first marries another man, have sexual intercourse with each other, and then this second man divorces her.

The Bible, on the other hand, does not prohibit a divorced couple from reconciling and re marrying each other, and it permits this directly and straightforwardly without interference or an intervening marriage and divorce.

The Quran

Sura (Chapter) 2:230 says:
And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. (In that case) there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an , vol. 1, p. 165)

Maududi (d. 1979) is a traditional and conservative commentator on the Quran, so we should let him explain, first, the context of this remarriage law in Sura 2:228-232. A final and absolute divorce is built on a three-stage process, coordinated with a woman’s monthly cycle.

He reports that a man may pronounce a divorce against his wife only after her menses, not during it:

In order to check hasty action and leave the door open for reconciliation at many stages, the right method of pronouncing divorce as taught by the Qur’an and the Traditions is that if and when it becomes inevitable, it should be pronounced only when she is not in her menses and even if a dispute arises during the monthly period, it is not right to pronounce divorce during that condition, but he should wait for her to cleanse herself and then may pronounce a single divorce [but not the third and final one], if he so likes .

Then Maududi says that the divorce pronouncement is repeated two more times. On the third one, the divorce is final and absolute.

Then he should wait for the next monthly course and pronounce the second divorce [but not the third and final one], if he so wishes after she is cleansed. Then he should wait for the next monthly course to pronounce the third and final divorce after she is cleansed . (vol. 1, p. 167, note 250)

Despite this three-month process, Islamic law also allows a husband three divorce pronouncements in quick succession, without waiting three months. Also, the right to divorce is nearly exclusively on the side of the husband. In Islamic law, a woman has a very hard time divorcing her husband against his will, while a husband can easily divorce his wife against her will. She will not be asked.

But in regard to this three-month procedure, it must be admitted that this procedure has two advantages, on the surface. First, this process offers hope for reconciliation. It allows a"cooling off" period. Indeed, Maududi goes on to say that the husband should wait and reconsider the matter because he has the right to take his wife back after the second pronouncement. Second, Maududi informs us that in pre-Islamic Arabia a man could make as many divorce pronouncements as he pleased, which was unfair to the wife, so Muhammad limited this to three. When the man does this for the third time, he "forfeits the right to take her back, nor can the couple remarry [each other]" (note 250).

However, the Quran does not go far enough in protecting women and in honoring marriage, as seen in Maududi’s explanation: "nor can the couple remarry [each other]."

This is when Sura 2:230, our target verse, comes into play. The couple who is divorced finally and absolutely is not permitted to remarry each other after they worked out their differences—unless the wife marries another man, and then he divorces her. Maududi does not offer an explanation or defense of this rule.He says that Muhammad cursed schemers. This refers to a case in which a woman and another man plotted to get married, so that he could divorce her, with the express purpose of her getting back together with her first husband. This is dishonest, says Maududi (note 253). Though he does not explain this verse, what else does he need to say? The verse is clear enough as written.


Even in an honest scenario, Sura 2:230 dishonors marriage, ultimately. It engenders a second divorce between the wife and another man, on the road to a possible reconciliation of the original couple—and this is potentially adulterous. Why have the intervening steps of a second marriage and divorce before the first divorced couple can work out their differences and get back together?

It would have been better if Muhammad had allowed a judge to work out reconciliation after an absolute divorce. Putting roadblocks like a second marriage and a second divorce before the original couple is permitted to reunite is confusing and possibly destructive of the institution of marriage.

Furthermore, even though the husband is the one who divorces the wife, it is she who has to pay the price for the (hasty) divorce. It is she who is humiliated by yet another marriage and divorce before they can come back together. Why does only the woman have to marry and get divorced another time before she can be joined again with her original husband? Why not the husband who in most cases initiated and pushed through the first divorce? Why is the wife punished if the husband makes this mistake?

This policy contrasts with the Bible’s rulings on the divorce and remarriage of a couple.

The Bible

This sacred book promotes freedom and righteousness without confusion.

Serving as a background to the New Testament, Deuteronomy 24:1 permits a man to write a certificate of divorce if "he finds something indecent about her." The Hebrew word for "indecent" means, at its essence,"unclothedness (indecent or shameful) . . . ‘to expose the unclothedness’ is to have sexual relations." This restricts the reason for a divorce, but by the time of Jesus, at least one rabbinic interpretation expanded on this restriction to include trivial reasons. This expansion put the woman at risk if she could not return to her father’s house. It certainly put a strain on her own paternal family if her husband sent her packing to her father. It dishonored marriage (Matthew 5:31-32 and 19:3-9).

Jesus tightened up this popular and loose interpretation of Deuteronomy 24:1, in order to protect women. Divorce is permitted only for sexual unfaithfulness. No man should divorce his wife for trivial reasons.

Moreover, to deduce from the doctrine of reconciliation, an over arching theme in the Bible, neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament prohibits a remarriage of the original couple to each other after their divorce(see Isaiah 54:5-8 and Jeremiah 3:8-14). This desire to reconcile demonstrates that the divorced couple has set aside their grievances and decided to start afresh, which is always welcomed in the Spirit of Christ. The Bible would never deny this righteous desire.

Thus, the differing patterns for the divorced couple in the Bible and the Quran work out in the following way, as the couple seeks to reconcile and remarry each other (the capital letters standing for the key words in the process):

The Bible: Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage (M-D-R)

The Quran: Marriage-Divorce-Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage (M-D-M-D-R)

It may be true that Muhammad cursed(as usual) schemers who misused remarriage to get their own way. But his ruling opened up the door to scheming in the first place.

Clearly, the Bible is simpler and promotes and protects the sanctity of marriage, particularly of the first marriage, and it promotes and protects a straight path towards reconciliation and remarriage.

Conclusion

Here is the essential difference between the Quran and the Bible.

The Quran prohibits reconciliation and remarriage of a couple to each other after a divorce; but it also requires and demands a second marriage and divorce before permitting the reconciliation and remarriage of the original couple.

On the other hand, the Bible allows reconciliation and remarriage after a divorce without requiring or demanding an intervening second marriage and divorce. This follows the Biblical themes of reconciliation and forgiveness (Isaiah 54:5-8 and Jeremiah 3:8-14).

M-D-M-D-R vs. M-D-R

Therefore, Muhammad’s old-new law on this specific matter is confusing, whereas the Bible’s righteousness promotes reconciliation and forgiveness after a divorce, without confusion.
Source

Jesus tightened up this popular and loose interpretation of Deuteronomy 24:1, in order to protect women. Divorce is permitted only for intimate unfaithfulness. No man should divorce his wife for trivial reasons.

you people make mockery of jesus and his Lord. who revealed or instructed Deut. 21.1, above; Jesus or Jehovah? If it was Jehovah, you are saying that the Jesus who has now tightened up "it" is of better understanding and greater moral quality. If the one who revealed the Deut. 24.1 was Jesus who now tightened up "it", we should ask what was the thought when he allowed it before he deemed it necessary to tighten[ed] up "it"? we ask if this is not changing mind and being inconsistent? ol' boy, or sisi, you make people see the frailness of unsteadiness. God is firm from the beginning. If God hates something, He does not love it later. God hated sin because it is disobedience. so He forgives when people repent because repentance is obedience. there is no reason for you to say the real God permits divorce before and now disallowed it. what has changed from the time of permission to now disallow it? are people better now or more evil? why should you tie together people who do not want to belong? this is evil.

Moreover, to deduce from the doctrine of reconciliation, an over arching theme in the Bible, neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament prohibits a remarriage of the original couple to each other after their divorce(see Isaiah 54:5-8 and Jeremiah 3:8-14). This desire to reconcile demonstrates that the divorced couple has set aside their grievances and decided to start afresh, which is always welcomed in the Spirit of Christ. The Bible would never deny this righteous desire.

i guess the same spirit of christ was working in deut. 24.1? isaiah 54.5/8 and jeremiah 3.8/14 are opposing deut. 24.1

you are supposed to marry and divorce if you must, then within the period of iddah can comeback. or remarry each other anew if you waited past iddah. you can marry each other 3 times and the 3rd divorce is final until somebody else marries the wife and consummate the marriage and divorce and has the chance as you did to go through the iddah periods and may have to go exhaust the 3 marriage periods.

Thus, the differing patterns for the divorced couple in the Bible and the Quran work out in the following way, as the couple seeks to reconcile and remarry each other (the capital letters standing for the key words in the process):

The Bible: Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage (M-D-R)

The Quran: Marriage-Divorce-Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage (M-D-M-D-R)

in Islam it is actually m-d-r-d-r d. there are 2 possible remarriages and actually 3 marriages and 3 divorces. the 3rd divorce is final for the cycle and some other spouse will have a chance at love. stop a second. step back and wonder if you are a woman [maybe you are]. will you want the man who plays with your heart, divorcing and remarrying you, without any end to that type of unstable romance? maybe you will find true love from somewhere else, instead of with the guy who loves to keep you unsettled, divorcing you as his emotion dictates. I am a man and i will not utter divorce to a woman unless i mean it to be final between the two of us. i dont go back for seconds.

It may be true that Muhammad cursed(as usual) schemers who misused remarriage to get their own way. But his ruling opened up the door to scheming in the first place.

the reality today is that the rate of divorce and disregard of marriage is higher than those who are not followers of Muhmmaad [sa].

Clearly, the Bible is simpler and promotes and protects the sanctity of marriage, particularly of the first marriage, and it promotes and protects a straight path towards reconciliation and remarriage.

no it does not, unless you are denying the reality of the book. Quran insists that there is a contract of marriage to protect the woman and act as a manual of justice and reminder to the stronger man. today the powerful among the non muslims are using muslim inspired contract of marriage. they call it prenuptial.

Conclusion

Here is the essential difference between the Quran and the Bible.

The Quran prohibits reconciliation and remarriage of a couple to each other after; divorce

3 divorces, not a divorce.

but it also requires and demands a second marriage and divorce before permitting the reconciliation and remarriage of the original couple.

if you dont know what you are talking about, just ask question or keep your mouth shut. there is no place that says what you said now in the Quran. what purpose is the waiting period if first marriage followed by first divorce means marriage to a different man is a must? waiting period is both a cooling out and reflection period. the people can get back together for second marriage. or if they wait after the period, they can get back in remarriage whereby wife can ask for another dowry. husband and wife thereby in islamic process of marriage and divorce have the exclusive right of 3 marriages before another man has a chance to enter the picture.

On the other hand, the Bible allows reconciliation and remarriage after a divorce without requiring or demanding an intervening second marriage and divorce. This follows the Biblical themes of reconciliation and forgiveness (Isaiah 54:5-8 and Jeremiah 3:8-14).

let me ask if Jesus says you cant divorce and those who are cant remarry, what good is what Isiah and Jeremiah verses above? who do you follow or you are a follower of hybrid of Jesus, Isiah, Jeremiah and Deut.? what role is paul playing here in marriage and divorce? I see you keep him far away from the discussion. how many times can marriage and divorce and remarriages happen in the above before the man takes the woman for granted and the woman dislikes her condition, that the holy books have made her a slave of the loveless man?


[

M-D-M-D-R vs. M-D-R

if each marriage period is 5 years, the muslims couple will have 15 years before another man can enter into the equation. how many 5 years marriages do the bibles impose on the woman as an unwilling subject of the loveless sick in the head "crown on the head of the woman"?

Therefore, Muhammad’s old-new law on this specific matter is confusing, whereas the Bible’s righteousness promotes reconciliation and forgiveness after a divorce, without confusion.

in Islam, marriage ceremony calls for both spouses to be conscious of God in their relationship and of course the treatment of each other. again, the marriage of muslim has 3 possible lifespans of christian marriage.

Sweetnecta: you people make mockery of jesus and his Lord. who revealed or instructed Deut. 21.1, above; Jesus or Jehovah? If it was Jehovah, you are saying that the Jesus who has now tightened up "it" is of better understanding and greater moral quality. If the one who revealed the Deut. 24.1 was Jesus who now tightened up "it", we should ask what was the thought when he allowed it before he deemed it necessary to tighten[ed] up "it"? we ask if this is not changing mind and being inconsistent? ol' boy, or sisi, you make people see the frailness of unsteadiness. God is firm from the beginning. If God hates something, He does not love it later. God hated sin because it is disobedience. so He forgives when people repent because repentance is obedience. there is no reason for you to say the real God permits divorce before and now disallowed it. what has changed from the time of permission to now disallow it? are people better now or more evil? why should you tie together people who do not want to belong? this is evil.

it's obvious you didn't read the OP, go back and do that no where did i assert all this trash you're saying

i guess the same spirit of christ was working in deut. 24.1? isaiah 54.5/8 and jeremiah 3.8/14 are opposing deut. 24.1

you are supposed to marry and divorce if you must, then within the period of iddah can comeback. or remarry each other anew if you waited past iddah. you can marry each other 3 times and the 3rd divorce is final until somebody else marries the wife and consummate the marriage and divorce and has the chance as you did to go through the iddah periods and may have to go exhaust the 3 marriage periods.

why put the woman through such humiliation?

in Islam it is actually m-d-r-d-r d. there are 2 possible remarriages and actually 3 marriages and 3 divorces. the 3rd divorce is final for the cycle and some other spouse will have a chance at love. stop a second. step back and wonder if you are a woman [maybe you are]. will you want the man who plays with your heart, divorcing and remarrying you, without any end to that type of unstable romance? maybe you will find true love from somewhere else, instead of with the guy who loves to keep you unsettled, divorcing you as his emotion dictates. I am a man and i will not utter divorce to a woman unless i mean it to be final between the two of us. i dont go back for seconds.

that's where the i divorce you three times Muslim men say comes. Like the case of the young student her husband told her i divorce you three times over the phone, the scholars told her they can't back till she marries another man and the consummates the marriage, divorce before they can get back again. You choose to start your pathetic rebuttal from the last paragraph, i take the rest was correct.

the reality today is that the rate of divorce and disregard of marriage is higher than those who are not followers of Muhmmaad [sa].

Really? Even when you can do it through sms or phone?

no it does not, unless you are denying the reality of the book. Quran insists that there is a contract of marriage to protect the woman and act as a manual of justice and reminder to the stronger man. today the powerful among the non muslims are using muslim inspired contract of marriage. they call it prenuptial.

Still makes no sense if a man can divorce a wife by uttering 3 words

3 divorces, not a divorce.


if you dont know what you are talking about, just ask question or keep your mouth shut. there is no place that says what you said now in the Quran. what purpose is the waiting period if first marriage followed by first divorce means marriage to a different man is a must? waiting period is both a cooling out and reflection period. the people can get back together for second marriage. or if they wait after the period, they can get back in remarriage whereby wife can ask for another dowry. husband and wife thereby in islamic process of marriage and divorce have the exclusive right of 3 marriages before another man has a chance to enter the picture.

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3292 Narrated by Mahmud ibn
Labid
When Allah's Messenger (saws) was informed about a man who had divorced his wife, declaring it three times without any interval between them, he (saws) arose in anger and said, "Is a mockery being made of the Book of Allah Who is Great and Glorious, while I am amongst you?" As a result a companion got up and asked, "O Messenger of Allah (saws) shall I kill him?"

The absolute majority of the scholars are of the
opinion that if one pronounces three divorces to
one’s wife at one time, they will count as three and
an irrevocable divorce will be established. That was
the ruling of even the noble companions of the
Messenger of Allah (saws) of the stature of Hadrat
Abdullah ibn Abbas (R.A.) and of Hadrat Abu
Hurayrah (R.A.), etc.
www.islamhelpline.com/qa/three-divorce-anger
So what are you saying? You should've read the whole thing before making a fool of yourself. By the do you see how Muhammad's companion wanted to kill a man that made mockery of the Quran even though he didn't? So does that kill for blasphemy are actually right after all. I wonder what answer Muhammad gave him, will find out.

let me ask if Jesus says you cant divorce and those who are cant remarry, what good is what Isiah and Jeremiah verses above? who do you follow or you are a follower of hybrid of Jesus, Isiah, Jeremiah and Deut.? what role is paul playing here in marriage and divorce? I see you keep him far away from the discussion. how many times can marriage and divorce and remarriages happen in the above before the man takes the woman for granted and the woman dislikes her condition, that the holy books have made her a slave of the loveless man?

Where did Jesus say that? Next time you want to reply better read the whole. Were those scholars in my 1st post right to tell the girl she has to marry and have sèx with another man before they get back together after her husband told her i divorce you 3 time on phone?

[if each marriage period is 5 years, the muslims couple will have 15 years before another man can enter into the equation. how many 5 years marriages do the bibles impose on the woman as an unwilling subject of the loveless sick in the head "crown on the head of the woman"?

What a silly assumption, the bible unlike your Quran does not impose marrying another man before you get back to your original husband even the divorce wasn't your fault.

in Islam, marriage ceremony calls for both spouses to be conscious of God in their relationship and of course the treatment of each other. again, the marriage of muslim has 3 possible lifespans of christian marriage.

Thrash,what kind of treatment when a man can beat the wife, marry other women and divorce her at his whim? Answer this questions please

Furthermore, even though the husband is the one who divorces the wife, it is she who has to pay the price for the (hasty) divorce. It is she who is humiliated by yet another marriage and divorce before they can come back together. Why does only the woman have to marry and get divorced another time before she can be joined again with her original husband? Why not the husband who in most cases initiated and pushed through the first divorce? Why is the wife punished if the husband makes this mistake?

I wonder kind of mockery Allah is trying to prevent or the women rights he's protecting by asking a divorced woman to marry and sleep with another man before she can get back to former husband. So If in the heat of rage like in this young girl's case you utter the word talaq three times to your wife, you can no longer remarry her until someone else marries her, takes her to bed and enjoys her for some times and then if he divorces her you can take the mother of your children home and she will become lawful to you again. Is this sound, sane and rational?

It is Sunnis who divorce their wives just by shouting "talaq" (divorce) three times.this is a jurisprudential case.in Shia jurisprudence a document must be issued through a court or legal representative of the shariah or a local religious authority before marriage can be dissolved.

As for the Quran,"divorce is twice".you can marry and divorce,and remarry and again divorce your wife.after that there is an irrevocable divorce.she becomes permanently forbidden to you until she has entered a marriage contract with another man and the marriage is dissolved,before she can go to her previous husband and get married afresh.

The reason for this is to discourage divorce.if not done like this,issuing divorce certificates would become meaningless.and consider how much more meaningless with the Sunni mode of divorce,where all that needs to be done is shouting "divorce" thrice and its over! In fact islamically divorce is not something good.in Shia Islam or in our Ja'fari school of thought,the authority would try to first mend fences before granting the divorce.divorce is seen as something God has permitted but is disliked by Him and therefore discouraged.

i have the right to marry my wife 3 times: the first marriage and 2 remarriages. it is the divorce in after the 2nd remarriage that makes the marriage end in that cycle of marriage and divorce.

heck. i just read about a woman in the northern nigeria's city of kaduna who wants out of the marriage, seeing divorce from her husband.

st paris, that will teach you a lesson that woman can seek divorce from the husband, just as much as husband can.

what a man can do, woman can do better in almost all cases.


@saint paris; i read you loud and clear. when deut disagrees with gospel, any gospel, it means deut disagrees with Jesus, unless Jesus is not about the gospel, any gospel.

[quote author=Sweetnecta]i have the right to marry my wife 3 times: the first marriage and 2 remarriages. it is the divorce in after the 2nd remarriage that makes the marriage end in that cycle of marriage and divorce.

heck.

Yea you can do that, between those 3 times when is she supposed to marry another man and divorce her before you can? Why does she need to marry another even? That's my problem, the law makes no sense whatsoever. You've to agree with me your religion always find a way to make life difficult for it's adherents. [quote]
i just read about a woman in the northern nigeria's city of kaduna who wants out of the marriage, seeing divorce from her husband.

st paris, that will teach you a lesson that woman can seek divorce from the husband, just as much as husband can.

what a man can do, woman can do better in almost all cases.

Yea i did too, what i noticed is that a man can easily divorce her wife even through phone while the woman had to plead her case in the court.

@saint paris; i read you loud and clear. when deut disagrees with gospel, any gospel, it means deut disagrees with Jesus, unless Jesus is not about the gospel, any gospel.

They didn't disagree

The idea is simple enough. Dont take your wives as property you can dispose of at whim. Think b4 making decisions 4 they may haunt you later on.


A man who keeps divorcing his wife may need to lose her 2 someone else b4 ever realising her worth.

basic possible parties in a marriage and possible outcomes relative to divorce (my view based on islamic style)

Good man - Good Woman - list possibility of breakup/Divorce or most likely no breakups

Good Man - not-Good Woman - mid posssibility of brekup. if woman does does not change (to be a Good woman), it will be hoped she meets her match

not Good Man- Good Woman - High posssibility of brekup. The man looses as the woman has opportunity to meet a better Person (if shes careful, she may end up as in scenario 1 above)

not-Good Man - not-Good Woman - Possibility of breakup is there but they are meant for each other. besides, they do not deserve to be muslims anyway. (marry your kind)

conclussion: islamic law gives opportunity for the GOOD Woman to be happier if the Husband refuse to be a good man. but most Good men do not even divorce their non-Good.
wifes.

IT IS CLEAR IN ISLAM THAT DIVORCE IT FROWNED AT. but it just may be necessary at times (nostly when the woman is unchaste).

ghazzal: basic possible parties in a marriage and possible outcomes relative to divorce (my view based on islamic style)

Good man - Good Woman - list possibility of breakup/Divorce or most likely no breakups

Good Man - not-Good Woman - mid posssibility of brekup. if woman does does not change (to be a Good woman), it will be hoped she meets her match

not Good Man- Good Woman - High posssibility of brekup. The man looses as the woman has opportunity to meet a better Person (if shes careful, she may end up as in scenario 1 above)

not-Good Man - not-Good Woman - Possibility of breakup is there but they are meant for each other. besides, they do not deserve to be muslims anyway. (marry your kind)

conclussion: islamic law gives opportunity for the GOOD Woman to be happier if the Husband refuse to be a good man. but most Good men do not even divorce their non-Good.
wifes.

IT IS CLEAR IN ISLAM THAT DIVORCE IT FROWNED AT. but it just may be necessary at times (nostly when the woman is unchaste).

WHO HAS A BETTER OPTION FOR MAN? or which/What divorce process/option is better.......verily, God in the Quran know man more than we know ourselves. isnt it obvious

ghazzal: basic possible parties in a marriage and possible outcomes relative to divorce (my view based on islamic style)

Good man - Good Woman - list possibility of breakup/Divorce or most likely no breakups

Good Man - not-Good Woman - mid posssibility of brekup. if woman does does not change (to be a Good woman), it will be hoped she meets her match

not Good Man- Good Woman - High posssibility of brekup. The man looses as the woman has opportunity to meet a better Person (if shes careful, she may end up as in scenario 1 above)

not-Good Man - not-Good Woman - Possibility of breakup is there but they are meant for each other. besides, they do not deserve to be muslims anyway. (marry your kind)

conclussion: islamic law gives opportunity for the GOOD Woman to be happier if the Husband refuse to be a good man. but most Good men do not even divorce their non-Good.
wifes.

IT IS CLEAR IN ISLAM THAT DIVORCE IT FROWNED AT. but it just may be necessary at times (nostly when the woman is unchaste).

Good, makes a lil bit of sense however i've to disagree with you on "not Good Man- Good Woman - High posssibility of brekup. The man looses as the woman has opportunity to meet a better Person (if shes careful, she may end up as in scenario 1 above)". Under the Sharia women are not allowed to divorce even if their husband beats them. The decision to divorce rest only on man's whims. I mean really, can a woman really divorce her husband on phone or through SMS?
And in your last statement divorce maybe frowned at as it should be in every reasonable society, but in case of islam is quite easy to get for the man that is. And in case of a woman been divorced for been uchaste is not quite true. I think you know quite well the fate of an adulterous woman in proper islam setting.

WHO HAS A BETTER OPTION FOR MAN? or which/What divorce process/option is better.......verily, God in the Quran know man more than we know ourselves. isnt it obvious

No it's not obvious, clearly zhuqr(i hope i got the spelling right) whom i think is shia clearly disagrees with your sunni style of divorce so it's not obvious. But they like you still force their women to marry another man, the man divorces her before she cann get back to her original husband. That option is clearly screwed up. Do you see what that option is doing/did to the student in my 1st post?

The idea is simple enough. Dont take your wives as property you can dispose of at whim. Think b4 making decisions 4 they may haunt you later on.


A man who keeps divorcing his wife may need to lose her 2 someone else b4 ever realizing her worth.

Lol, but women are property in your religion. Many Muslims have argued that in Islam the husband is responsible to provide for the family and the wife is not required to contribute with a penny. Is like She is to provide a service for him, (give birth to HIS children, satisfy his sèxual needs, take care of HIS property, etc) and in exchange he is required to maintain her. Is there any difference between this dynamism and that of a master and his slave?
Even your fellow sisters in Saudi Arabia are been tracked like they're some kinda BMW property

Your last statement is quite unreasonable or heartlessly indifferent to what a typical muslim woman goes through, like the girl in my 1st post

Saint paris:
Good, makes a lil bit of sense however i've to disagree with you on "not Good Man- Good Woman - High posssibility of brekup. The man looses as the woman has opportunity to meet a better Person (if shes careful, she may end up as in scenario 1 above)". Under the Sharia women are not allowed to divorce even if their husband beats them. The decision to divorce rest only on man's whims. I mean really, can a woman really divorce her husband on phone or through SMS?
And in your last statement divorce maybe frowned at as it should be in every reasonable society, but in case of islam is quite easy to get for the man that is. And in case of a woman been divorced for been uchaste is not quite true. I think you know quite well the fate of an adulterous woman in proper islam setting.

No it's not obvious, clearly zhuqr(i hope i got the spelling right) whom i think is shia clearly disagrees with your sunni style of divorce so it's not obvious. But they like you still force their women to marry another man, the man divorces her before she cann get back to her original husband. That option is clearly screwed up. Do you see what that option is doing/did to the student in my 1st post?

A woman can divorse her husband. Stop saying things u av no knowledge of.

The case above is an isolated one. Many laws are given with everything being equal. If he was a good Muslim who understands his dean,he wldnt have treated her the way he did. It appears they are very young too and immaturity is playing in their life. If you wldnt be using ur critical lens I wonder what advice you would have for this married student and her hot tempered husband.

The law would be very beneficial to those who live an absolutely Islamic life for with that,she'd be marrying a man of good character and who would follow the dictates of Qur'an and ahadith that emphasise being good to the woman and looking to the good sides of her even when she is seen as bad.

Since no matter what is said,you wldnt listen,I may just stop spending my time here.

Hypocrite. Does d bible not also place d man as d head?

And about being unreasonable,I think u are d dolt here.

Do you mean that if a man sends u packing three different times or is plain silly enough to not follow the basic steps of the three divorces allowed, u wld still go back to him begging?

I see your uptienth attempt at being relevant. It must bother on some psycho issues needing dire attention.
I wld offer you help if only u'd admit..u wldn't,unfortunately.

Saint paris:
Lol, but women are property in your religion. Many Muslims have argued that in Islam the husband is responsible to provide for the family and the wife is not required to contribute with a penny. Is like She is to provide a service for him, (give birth to HIS children, satisfy his sèxual needs, take care of HIS property, etc) and in exchange he is required to maintain her. Is there any difference between this dynamism and that of a master and his slave?
Even your fellow sisters in Saudi Arabia are been tracked like they're some kinda BMW property

Your last statement is quite unreasonable or heartlessly indifferent to what a typical muslim woman goes through, like the girl in my 1st post

Dear Saint Paris, are you married? I ask this cos i want to know if there was ever a case when a decision had to be made, you are strongly positive about "A" but your wife was strongly positive about "B". There are risks to be considered so i ask whose option will be primary?
You only decieve yourselve to nail Islam. The man is the Head of the Family-If you call that slavery to the Wife, thats in your mind hence your problem. And the Head is wholy responsible for the Family in all ways.
Some men push responsibilities to their wife, i trust you dont do that as in Islam, it is a show of irresponsibility from the Husband, it is wrong. in Islam, a rich woman has the right not to spend her money on the family.

And only in islam is the Man thought how to relate with his wife(another reason Islam it is complete) or cn you show me one in your book?.

in my analogy, a non-Good man may not be able to show love nor have the patience to tollerate his wife. no one is a perfect creature! while the non-Good man will find it easy to say divorce 3ce on a phone, the Good man will be willing to support his non-good wife to be a better person.

deols:

A woman can divorse her husband. Stop saying things u av no knowledge of.

The case above is an isolated one. Many laws are given with everything being equal. If he was a good Muslim who understands his dean,he wldnt have treated her the way he did. It appears they are very young too and immaturity is playing in their life. If you wldnt be using ur critical lens I wonder what advice you would have for this married student and her hot tempered husband.

The law would be very beneficial to those who live an absolutely Islamic life for with that,she'd be marrying a man of good character and who would follow the dictates of Qur'an and ahadith that emphasise being good to the woman and looking to the good sides of her even when she is seen as bad.

No a woman cannot and the case is not an isolated one. Apparently the whole i divorce the three times started in the time of Muhammad.
"if a man pronounced three divorces at
once by stating to the wife: “I divorce you three
times” or by saying: “I divorce you”, three times,
then three divorces will be effected and the divorce
will be irrevocable. The woman will be free to re-
marry another man after the termination of her
Iddah. She can not return to her former husband’s
marriage unless she is divorced once again from her
second husband."

Sayyidatuna Aisha (Allah be pleased with her)
reports that: A man pronounced three divorces to his
wife. She (after her Iddah) married another man. The
Messenger of Allah was asked if it was lawful for her
to return to the first husband. He said: “ Not until
they have sexual intercourse” (Recorded by Imam al-
Bukhari in his Sahih).

It is clear from the above Hadith that three divorces
at once will be effected. The woman was allowed to
marry another man. The Prophet of Allah (Allah bless
him and give him peace) would have surely pointed
out, had three divorces did not come into effect at
once. The husband in this incident pronounced all
three divorces at once as the great scholar of Hadith,
Ibn Hajr rightly points out in his monumental
commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari, ‘Fath al-Bari’.
qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=170&CATE=11

And as for advice, they should work out their differences as any normal beings would and if they feel like getting back together they should give that law that says the girl has to marry another man the middle finger and get back with their lives. It's as simple as that. The law is not beneficial to one or any woman rather it makes life difficult for married couples. It's even humiliating on the part of women, wonder why you don't see it like. If you can allow a divorce couple get back together why ask the woman to marry another?

So don't sit on your high moral horse and condemn the man as what he did is sunnah, blame the 7th century laws

deols:
Since no matter what is said,you wldnt listen,I may just stop spending my time here.

Hypocrite. Does d bible not also place d man as d head?

And about being unreasonable,I think u are d dolt here.

Do you mean that if a man sends u packing three different times or is plain silly enough to not follow the basic steps of the three divorces allowed, u wld still go back to him begging?

I see your uptienth attempt at being relevant. It must bother on some psycho issues needing dire attention.
I wld offer you help if only u'd admit..u wldn't,unfortunately.

Lol, you can call me whatever names you like or say what you like i don't really care. You don't say something silly and expect me to accept. Did you see me contest Zhul-fiqar opinion? What he said made sense so no need. It's not the biblical laws that's putting your fellow sis through hell.
Your question is pretty silly. The man didn't send the woman packing, he merely said i divorce you three times and the marriage is over. Are you that ignorant or just being intellectually dishonest? I don't expect you to come back again, why not go and discuss more pressing issues in women lives like what swim wear is halal or haram?

ghazzal: Dear Saint Paris, are you married? I ask this cos i want to know if there was ever a case when a decision had to be made, you are strongly positive about "A" but your wife was strongly positive about "B". There are risks to be considered so i ask whose option will be primary?
You only decieve yourselve to nail Islam. The man is the Head of the Family-If you call that slavery to the Wife, thats in your mind hence your problem. And the Head is wholy responsible for the Family in all ways.

Nah am not married. That a man is head of family does not mean he should act like a dictator.

Some men push responsibilities to their wife, i trust you dont do that as in Islam, it is a show of irresponsibility from the Husband, it is wrong. in Islam, a rich woman has the right not to spend her money on the family.

Pushing responsibility solely to the woman is irresponsible is wrong, it has to shared. And for to say a rich woman doesn't have to spend a dime in her family is equally wrong. Does that help to solidify love απϑ unity between the husband and wife? How would you feel if suddenly your wife receives a huge inheritance and becomes a multi millionaire but does not share a penny from her wealth with you and at the same
time demands you to maintain her with your meager salary? Can such marriage survive?

And only in islam is the Man thought how to relate with his wife(another reason Islam it is complete) or cn you show me one in your book?.

Relate? That's news to me, why do you need to do that when there's surah4:34 2:223, 33:50?

in my analogy, a non-Good man may not be able to show love nor have the patience to tollerate his wife. no one is a perfect creature! while the non-Good man will find it easy to say divorce 3ce on a phone, the Good man will be willing to support his non-good wife to be a better person.

Yea, he can do that on the phone it's quite easy. What do you guys take women for?

@saint paris: deols is a muslim woman. she ought to know about the laws and rulings of muslim marriage and roles of muslim woman, at least better than you. you are not a muslim, even if you are a woman. and if you are not a woman, how on earth are you an expert on matters of muslim woman and muslim marriage more than a muslim woman who will be married or already married? if you need to know what islam calls husband to do, even the process of divorce, you need to consult the Quran and examples acceptable in the sunnah. such examples must agree with Quran, not against it.

by Saint paris: 9:36pm
Nah am not married. That a man is head of family does not mean he should act like a dictator.

a muslim who is a dictator is not acting accordance to the Quran or the least accepted in the examples in the sunnah. i know many muslim men who are not dictators. not like the donald trump's type of dictatorship. guliani, the former mayor of new york city announced his divorce to tv personality donna hanover, the mother of little andrew 'it shall be so', in a tv news conference. donna who lived in the same home with the mayor that same day heard about her own divorce at the same time as the rest of the world. he replaced her with a girlfriend. well. this is what christianity teaches, if you are saying over the phone or by texting is what islam calls men to divorce their wives by?

Pushing responsibility solely to the woman is irresponsible is wrong, it has to shared.

almost all wealthy christian males throw the whole responsibility of raising children and keeping the homes to their children.

And for to say a rich woman doesn't have to spend a dime in her family is equally wrong.

equally wrong? how? have you asked any rich woman or any woman about this? everyone wants a freebie. no one ever turned down 'your money is no good here'.

Does that help to solidify love απϑ unity between the husband and wife?

so double dutch helps?

How would you feel if suddenly your wife receives a huge inheritance and becomes a multi millionaire but does not share a penny from her wealth with you and at the same time demands you to maintain her with your meager salary?

any muslim husband who understand marriage in islam will have no problems with wife keeping her inheritance.

Can such marriage survive?

obviously you have no loyalty to anything but mulla; money. marriage where husband and wife understand their individual and joint responsibility and commitment will not hang the survival of the marriage on the sharing of the wife's wealth. or even the husband's wealth.

Relate? That's news to me, why do you need to do that when there's surah4:34 2:223, 33:50?

everything is always new to you. the question is can you show something of equality from your book? whatever your book is?

4 verse 34: Men are in charge of women by right of what Allah has given one over the other

i am stronger than my wife. so i will step forward to protect her and our home against intruder

and what they spend for maintenance from their wealth.

regardless of her wealth or lack of it, all her freebies and your money is no good here, my darling is on me

So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in the husband's absence what Allah would have them guard.

wife has one husband in marriage. so woman keep the family jewels away from other men

But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - first advise them;

if saint paris is a woman, you may have to send saint bernard the dog to keep her in check. people like her as stiff necked

then if they persist, forsake them in bed;

resist the urge of se.x with a person who is not on your team

and finally, strike them.

no one who is decent wants the lover to even tap her when he is angry, unhappy. if you strike without hurting, then it is a mere tap to call attention, a reminder to order

But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them.

no discomfort upon her. so be happy family, once again

Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

believers shall obey your order, oh The Exalted and Grand Lord God

in my analogy, a non-Good man may not be able to show love nor have the patience to tollerate his wife. no one is a perfect creature! while the non-Good man will find it easy to say divorce 3ce on a phone, the Good man will be willing to support his non-good wife to be a better person.

you seem to assume that non-good man is only in islam? ask the world and you find out that problems in marriages is not on man or woman alone. sometimes, the two are bad for each other. so what do you do when both hate the gut of the other spouse? before the phone, or text, people have been marrying and divorcing. many a christians must have started their divorce proceeding in the most unusual way; a husband shared bed with his wife, wake up in the morning and announced to the world and the woman that he is no longer married. saint paris, this is your way of life.

Yea, he can do that on the phone it's quite easy.

the poor and wimpy man is by phone or text. real man needs to consider many things before thinking about divorce. if she is my sister, how would i like this? but the strong christian male, like rudy guilliani of new york city calls a press conference to announce to the mother of his son, the woman he shared bed with last night, that he is no longer her husband. he already kept a secret relationship brewing on the side.

What do you guys take women for?

i asked you first. so ask rudy for me. or alfonso demalto. both are conservative christians, catholic and republican. they will think that you are a pagan, still.

usisky:


PEACE to all.

pardon me Mr. Saint_paris, but i think you have made caricature of the Quranic law concerning divorce. If you really did study the quran yourself(not copy-paste from anti-Islam sites) you would realize the law as stated in the quran is actually to serve as a deterrent to those who are considering divorce. Unfortunately, what you have said concerning a man uttering "divorce" thrice to terminate his union with the spouse is what the reality is for the followers of the "SUNNI RELIGION". They objectify their women, treat them like piece of garbage and have no regard whatsoever for them.

Peace unto you too, thanks for your input it was very educating. Thanks also for accepting that Muslim divorce their women by uttering divorce thrice. This is very problematic and very degrading for the women, but nah you choose to berate me for pointing it out. But before you condemn those that do it, know that they have their backing from both Quran and Hadiths which is the sunnnah of the Prophet. Most of the sources i've used here as you erroneously thought is not from anti islamic site, it's from sites from Islamic scholars imagine that. So It's really something you and fellow enlightened ones like you need to educate the others not wait till an 'islamoqhobia' points it out to you. I agree with most of what you've said, I'll point a few i don't And one more thing am not the making caricature of your Quran, it is muslims and scholars that support them that do. All i just did was point them out,n how's that a crime? You already acknowledged that.

The "SHI'A RELIGION" also have their share of absurd teachings- like temporary marriage(which they deceptively
twist the meaning of the quranic word) which is nothing short of prost.itution.

Suffice it to say, none of what they advocate in their religion have any basis in the quran. example:

Lol, whatever Shia's are doing am sure it has backing from the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet no? Was Muhammad engaging in prostitution when he engaged in Muta marriage? I wonder what lagoshia and co would say about this.

1)Polygamy- The quran never says marry four wives; it says marry the[b]mothers of orphaned[/b] children(up to 4 mothers of orphans- with strong conditions that even renders it impossible to take in another wife); it didn't say go and marry young women to satisfy your carnal needs.The intent is clear; to provide fatherly figure to the child. Neither did the quran say marry off juvenile female children. The essence is to alleviate sorrow and not to create it as we see with our dear "muslims" today. Someday, i will deal with this decisively- God willing.

You see what am saying, you know of all this laws that supposedly protect women and you decide to keep quite and wait till someday? Till when? You know all this things but keep mute but when a non muslim points it out you start lecturing or are you lying to save face for Islam? If not what are you waiting for? Now you talk of fatherly figure how's that even possible when adoption is banned in islam? Yea well learned muslim here like Sweetnecta have told it's banned in Islam. So your idea of being a fatherly figure is already contradicted. Now what of the Sunnah of the Prophet? Did he marry any mother of orphaned? Why did he marry Aisha when he already had a wife sauda? Didn't he break this rule too when he married Zaynab and others like her? huh Good luck to whenever you feel like coming to the aid of muslim women.

2)Divorce- a man cannot divorce his wife by merely saying "talak"(divorce) thrice, this is satanic and un-quranic. The divorce described in the quran serves to protect the woman's interest and not vice versa.

Let me elucidate to you the beautiful quranic laws concerning divorce which you fail to appreciate the wisdom therein.

First off, God never shies from telling us the reality as is; divorces do happen, and more often than not- this is caused by irreconcilable differences between the couple. So you see, we submitters(Muslims) are grateful to God for giving us a complete and perfect scripture detailing(guidelines to) all we need to manage our affairs.....Masha'allah(Glory be to God)!!

Like i have mentioned earlier, reading the qruan, we see that God does not support divorce; in fact, encourages the continuation of marriage. Divorce must be resorted only in exceptional circumstances.

DIVORCE FROM QUR'AN

1)APPOINT AN ARBITRATOR :

[4:35]If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.

This is the very first step that must be undertaken by a couple considering divorce. A couple may likely make decisions out of impulsive rage or naivete in which they most times regret their actions when they become sober. The idea of appointing arbitrators is to provide counseling to the feuding couple and if possible reconcile them. But if the two still insist on going ahead with their decision, the arbitrators ensure that the parties separate amicably in the manner designed by GOD. This also relegates the idea that a man can divorce a wife by simply uttering "talak" thrice.

Good, let's hear what Islamic scholars say about this. 'The above is clear in pointing out that a innovated divorce (in all its various forms) is unlawful (and sinful) and contrary to the teachings of the Shariah. One must avoid Talaqal-Bid`a at all times.
However, this does not mean in any way that, a unlawful divorce will not be effected... Therefore, if a man pronounced three divorcesat once by stating to the wife: “I divorce you three times” or by saying: “I divorce you”, three times, then three divorces will be effected and the divorce will be irrevocable. The woman will be free to re-marry another man after the termination of her Iddah. She can not return to her former husband’s marriage unless she is divorced once again from her second husband.
This is the position held by all the Sunni schools of Islamic law, i.e, Hanafi, Shafi’i, Malikiand the Hanbali. This was also the view of the overwhelming majority of Sahaba (Allah be pleased with them) and Tabi’in (followers). Only the Ja’fariyya sect amongst the Shi’a and those who followed the literal meaning of the texts, like Imam Ibn Taymiyya and his student Ibn al-Qayyim differed with this view. There view, however, was not accepted by the majority of the Ummah (See Ibn Qudama in al-Mugni , V:7, P:104).
Some of the evidences declaring the three divorces to be in effect:
1) Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an:
“Divorce is (only permissible) twice, thereafter either retaining her honorably or releasing her kindly...If he divorces her (the third time), she will not be lawful for him unless she marries another husband (and he also divorces her)” (Surah al-Baqarah, V:229/230).
2) Sayyidatuna Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reports that: A man pronounced three divorces to his wife. She (after her Iddah) married another man. The Messenger of Allah was asked if it was lawful for her to return to the first husband. He said: “ Not until they havesexual intercourse” (Recorded by Imam al-Bukhari in his Sahih)
It is clear from the above Hadith that three divorces at once will be effected. The woman was allowed to marry another man. The Prophet of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) would have surely pointed out, had three divorces did not come into effect at once.
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=170&CATE=11

So you see, it's something you guys have to sort within yourselves.

3)Divorced women to observe an interim period:

[2:228]The divorced women shall wait three menstruation (before marrying another man). It is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD creates in their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. (In case of pregnancy,) the husband's wishes shall supersede the wife's wishes, if he wants to remarry her. The women have rights, as well as obligations, equitably. Thus, the man's wishes prevail (in case of pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

[65:4-5]As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him. This is GOD's command that He sends down to you. Anyone who reverences GOD, He remits his sins, and rewards him generously.


From 2:228, we see that a divorced woman observes an interim of three menstruation before she thinks of marrying another man. This ensures that she is not pregnant at the time of divorce; therefore, the identity of the child a woman is carrying is preserved(in case she is pregnant). Also, the verse tells the woman to take back the man if he wishes to reconcile with her; if not for anything else, at least for the sake of her unborn child.

Same message is repeated in 65:4-5, this time it also addresses women who no longer menstruate. The verse also finalizes the case of a woman who is pregnant at the time of divorce mentioned in 2:228. It tells us their interim expires when they have given birth, in case the husband does not opt for reconciliation. Put succinctly, a divorced woman must observe three menstruation interim, if found pregnant- interim expires upon birth of the child. However, if she has reached menopausal age, her interim is still three months just to be sure. This shows how the quran explain itself when read from cover to cover(73:4).

NOTE: the sentence "as for those who do not menstruate" mentioned in 65:4 have been traditionally misconstrued by islamophobes to mean under-aged girls just to ridicule Islam; however, this is blatantly wrong, it refers to pregnant women as already stated in 2:228.

No you're wrong, and even contradictory. Verses [2:226-227]Those who intend to divorce their wives shall wait four months; this one is saying four months while 65:4-5]As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. Which is it? Four months or three months? Now back at what you accuse 'islamophobes' of, this idea is supported by many scholars. It's even obvious in the quran.
Qur’an 65:4 If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated. As for pregnant women, their term shall end with their confinement. God will ease the hardship of the man who fears him.
So you see the verse has already addressed pregnant women. Since Muslim men are to wait 3 months before divorcing a prepubescent child it means that they have been engaging in sex with those children.
Here is ibn kathir's explanation for the verse;
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

﴿وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ﴾

(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;

﴿إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ﴾

http://www.islamicstudies.info/ibnkathir/ibnkathir.php?sid=65&tid=54196

Here another by Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an - The Meaning of the Qur'an

13 They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge atall throughout life which, though rare, may alsobe the case. In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation, that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.

Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Qur'an the question of the waiting period arisesin respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur'an has held as permissible.

http://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/65/index.html
Again know where to point your accusing fingers.

6)Divorced women have to be provided for:

This is probably one of the abused laws in the Quran. But God holds us responsible for our innermost thoughts. If one observes God’s laws then God makes it easy for him / her.


[65:7]The rich husband shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that GOD bestowed upon him. GOD does not impose on any soul more than He has given it. GOD will provide ease after difficulty.

Great, no doubt this law has been abuse or well depending on how you see it. Apparently in the irrevocable divorce you don't owe her a thing. "The Irrevocably Divorced Woman does not have a Right to Provisions and Accommodations from the Husband"
(Spending and housing are required from the husband for his divorced wife if he can return to her. If she is not permitted for him anymore,until she marries another husband, then he does not have to provide her with spending and housing.)''
http://www.islamicstudies.info/ibnkathir/ibnkathir.php?sid=65&tid=54140

9)Divorce can be retracted twice:

In other words, if the couple reconciles after the first divorce and wish to be husband and wife again, they can re-marry. This is allowed for two divorce only. If the couple divorces third time they have to observe God's commandment in 2:230 (quoted below.) God makes it not-so-easy for the couple to divorce. This law serves as a deterrent for those who want a divorce for the third time and they would be very careful to take this step; a man who truly loves his wife will have to think deeply before divorcing her the third time knowing fully well the condition he is encumbered by(her marrying another man who may never divorce her; also consider the interim she must go through).

[2:229]Divorce may be retracted twice. The divorced woman shall be allowed to live in the same home amicably, or leave it amicably. It is not lawful for the husband to take back anything he had given her. However, the couple may fear that they may transgress GOD's law. If there is fear that they may transgress GOD's law, they commit no error if the wife willingly gives back whatever she chooses. These are GOD's laws; do not transgress them. Those who transgress GOD's laws are the unjust.

[2:232]If you divorce the women, once they fulfill their interim, do not prevent them from remarrying their husbands, if they reconcile amicably. This shall be heeded by those among you who believe in GOD and the Last Day. This is purer for you, and more righteous. GOD knows, while you do not know.

[2:230]If he divorces her (for the third time), it is unlawful for him to remarry her, unless she marries another man, then he divorces her. The first husband can then remarry her, so long as they observe GOD's laws. These are GOD's laws; He explains them for people who know.

This is where those that utter divorce thrice comes in and why make the woman marry another before they can get back?

11)Under what conditions can a woman divorce her husband?

Whichever party chooses for divorce must obey the laws as aforesaid. Normally divorce is mutually decided by the couple. If the aforesaid laws are observed, there could be a situation where either of the spouse may not give their consent but if the arbitrators from both the families decide that divorce is the best solution for the estranged couple then they would, nevertheless go through divorce. The divorce laws are applicable to both man and woman (4:35 and 2:237 indicate this) except that there are certain additional laws which a divorced woman has to observe.

2:237 couldn't possibly be referring to both man and woman or do women pay dowry? But take a careful look at what the verse says again.
[2:237]If you divorce them before touching them, but after you had set the dowry for them, the compensation shall be half the dowry, unless they voluntarily forfeit their rights, or the party responsible for causing the divorce chooses to forfeit the dowry. To forfeit is closer to righteousness. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. GOD is Seer of everything you do.
Isn't this khole? Khole is when women agree to forgo alimony and to repay their husbands any dowry in exchange of having the right to divorce.  It is supported by this hadith: abudawud12.2220 . Is that fair?

This is a great tool in the hand of a man who wants to get rid of his wife and not pay her alimony and get back the dowry. All he has to do is to make her life miserable until she takes her freedom and forgoes her rights. This happens everyday where Sharia is practiced. 

I do not see any justice in this. Again we still have the case of a man uttering divorce thrice which is even Permissible by sharia as i earlier pointed out This is the position held by all the Sunni schools of Islamic law, i.e, Hanafi, Shafi’i, Maliki and the Hanbali.

END REMARK: Mr. Sain_Paris, as you can clearly see, the laws regarding divorce in the quran aren't weird at all- the laws serves to discourage divorce as well as cater to the woman in the event that divorce ensues. The problem stems from your interpretation of the quran. I did not address your case of HADITH simply because i do not believe in them. Please endeavor to be a little patient when you are researching anything; otherwise, you may unwittingly be causing damage to another person's faith due misinformation. The Quran is truly easy to understand, the explanation of the quran is by the quran itself- because God is the teacher of the Quran(55:1-2). Those who do not allow themselves to be brainwashed; who do not give up their leeway to personal sovereignty and have pure hearts will grasp the message(56:79).


PEACE , and may God guide us all!!

Now this is quite something. You don't believe in hadiths at all? All of them? So what do you know about your Prophet's life or that he even existed? Or do you choose and pick which to believe? Anyways that's your own, when i was about write this i didn't have you or Quran only muslims in mind. Majority of Muslims do live by both tradition (hadiths) and ofcourse the Quran. Am not trying to damage anyone's faith as you can most of replies to you come from Islamic sources, it's you who have neglected your duty, so i guess you know where to point fingers at. Have you tried to address this very issue before? What of that of polygamy? When will that someday come? For how long will you look and watch your God's words abused and misinterpreted? The ball is in your court. Good luck

Shalom ♥

@saint paris:

.

You see what am saying, you know of all this laws that supposedly protect women and you decide to keep quite and wait till someday? Till when? You know all this things but keep mute but when a non muslim points it out you start lecturing or are you lying to save face for Islam? If not what are you waiting for? Now you talk of fatherly figure how's that even possible when adoption is banned in islam? Yea well learned muslim here like Sweetnecta have told it's banned in Islam. So your idea of being a fatherly figure is already contradicted. Now what of the Sunnah of the Prophet? Did he marry any mother of orphaned? Why did he marry Aisha when he already had a wife sauda? Didn't he break this rule too when he married Zaynab and others like her? huh huh Good luck to whenever you feel like coming to the aid of muslim women.

nna. bia. biko. dont call me 'well learned'. muslim is sufficient. omo, abeg dont kobalize me. while adoption is severing the ties of bloodline, Islam does abolish it. Islam, however does not abolish foster parenting. In fact, Islam encourages all that is good in human relationship in every aspects of goodness.

I do have children who call me daddy and i stand as dad for. But i am not their dad. their father's name[s] are on the documents of each of them. i can do what i will do for my own blood children and do treat them just like that. i will not absorb their father's privileges that God has given them and hence forbids consuming these privileges.

and as for quick way to divorce, only a fool divorces a good spouse. I tend to see the good and ignore the not so good part or value of a person. I hope my spouse looks at what is good about me and ignores my many bad qualities.


@Usisky: is there anything called "Sunni religion"?

^as you wish sire, just trying to differentiate you and the likes of vedax what's kobalize?

^as you wish sire, just trying to differentiate you from the likes of vedax & co what's kobalize?

Saint Paris: Peace unto you too

Thanks. Peace to you once again and everybody else.

Saint Paris: thanks for your input it was very educating

Praise be to GOD. It's refreshing to know you read through and found it edifying.

Saint Paris: Thanks also for accepting that Muslim divorce their women by uttering divorce thrice.

I was only stating the obvious.

Saint Paris: This is very problematic and very degrading for the women,....

Not only that, it is a misogynistic ideology that needs to be obviated; a total disregard for God's laws. Fortunately, such is unsupported in the Quran.

Saint Paris: ...but nah you choose to berate me for pointing it out.

My apologies...

Saint Paris: But before you condemn those that do it, know that they have their backing from both Quran and Hadiths which is the sunnnah of the Prophet.

God forbid that i shall condemn anybody- rather, i condemn UN-Godly and illogical practices. If i ever do unknowingly, may God forgive me. Yes, such practices can only be found in human-authored books called HADITHS. As far as the Quran is concerned, such backward and illogical ideologies are unsupported. And the most appropriate book to call the HADITH(saying, Narration, News) of the prophet is the Quran. Also, the prophet followed no other SUNNA(system, way of conduct) other than that detailed in the Quran.

Saint Paris: Most of the sources i've used here as you erroneously thought is not from anti islamic site, it's from sites from Islamic scholars imagine that.

Quite unfortunate but not surprising.

Saint Paris: So It's really something you and fellow enlightened ones like you need to educate the others not wait till an 'islamoqhobia' points it out to you.

We do. We have many websites dedicated to spreading the truth about God and "religions". By God's grace, many sincere muslims, christians, jews, Hindus, Bhudists and people of various religious orientation who visit our websites are not only convinced by our "perspective" , but are certain they have arrived at the last stop.

Saint Paris: I agree with most of what you've said...

Praise be to GOD!!

Saint Paris: And one more thing am not the making caricature of your Quran, it is muslims and scholars that support them that do.

Point noted.

Saint Paris: All i just did was point them out,n how's that a crime?

There's absolutely no crime in speaking against injustices- i am equally with you on that.

Saint Paris: Lol, whatever Shia's are doing am sure it has backing from the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet no?

From their man-made books...YES! From the Quran...NEVER!!

Saint Paris: Was Muhammad engaging in prostitution when he engaged in Muta marriage?

God forbid that a Prophet of God ever indulged in such obscene practice. The prophet was commanded to tell the true believers to maintain their morality and chastity if they are unable to marry([url=http://submission.org/QI#4%3A25]4:25[/url]). It is very unlikely that the prophet would go against God's laws as the followers of these man-mad books would have us believe.

Saint Paris: I wonder what lagoshia and co would say about this.

It doesn't what anybody thinks. What is sacrosanct are God laws as dictated in the scriptures. Religion is not about its adherents- rather, it's about strict subservience to God and His laws, regardless of what anybody thinks.

Saint Paris: You see what am saying, you know of all this laws that supposedly protect women and you decide to keep quite and wait till someday? Till when? You know all this things but keep mute but when a non muslim points it out you start lecturing or are you lying to save face for Islam? If not what are you waiting for?

Believe me....I do try. The moderator isn't particular friendly(maybe he is to others), some of my post barely survive a few minutes before they are blasted into oblivion. So you see why i rarely participate here. Truth hurts, but what God has prepared for those who oppose truth hurts the most.

Saint Paris: Now you talk of fatherly figure how's that even possible when adoption is banned in islam?

In the "ARAB RELIGION", YES! In the ISLAM(Total submission to GOD) as practiced by Muhammad, certainly not.
The condition for adoption as stated in the Quran is that the names of the adopted child(ren) is not changed so as to preserve the lineage([url=http://submission.org/QI#33%3A4-5]33:4-5[/url]). Also, that you treat them as you treat your own family([url=http://submission.org/QI#33%3A4-5]33:5[/url]). The prophet Muhammad had an adopted son called "Zeid"([url=http://submission.org/QI#33%3A37]33:37[/url]).

Saint Paris: Yea well learned muslim here like Sweetnecta have told it's banned in Islam.

Like i have said: It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, what is important is that God's commandments are upheld.

Saint Paris: Now what of the Sunnah of the Prophet? Did he marry any mother of orphaned? Why did he marry Aisha when he already had a wife sauda? Didn't he break this rule too when he married Zaynab and others like her?

The prophet Muhammad is our perfect model. He was married to one woman(Khadija) from the age of 25 to 50, until she died. He had all his children with her except one. For the next 13 years of his life, he married aged widows of his friends who left many children. They needed a home and a fatherly figure. Apart from these, three other marriages where political. His close friends Abu Bakr and Omar insisted he married their daughters, Aisha and Hafsah, to establish traditional family ties between them. The other was an Egyptian(Maria), given to him as political gesture by the ruler of Egypt. The fact that he had only one child after the death of his first wife for the remaining 13 years o his life, tells us he never married his subsequent wives for sexual pleasure. This explains why he had only one child within the 13 years.

Saint Paris: Good luck to whenever you feel like coming to the aid of muslim women.

I am a human being like everyone else. I can not guide anybody. Those who desire guidance will be led to it by the merciful GOD. Our websites are there as reference materials.

Saint Paris: Good, let's hear what Islamic scholars say about this. 'The above is clear in pointing out that a innovated divorce (in all its various forms) is unlawful (and sinful) and contrary to the teachings of the Shariah. One must avoid Talaqal-Bid`a at all times.
However, this does not mean in any way that, a unlawful divorce will not be effected... Therefore, if a man pronounced three divorcesat once by stating to the wife: “I divorce you three times” or by saying: “I divorce you”, three times, then three divorces will be effected and the divorce will be irrevocable. The woman will be free to re-marry another man after the termination of her Iddah. She can not return to her former husband’s marriage unless she is divorced once again from her second husband.
This is the position held by all the Sunni schools of Islamic law, i.e, Hanafi, Shafi’i, Malikiand the Hanbali. This was also the view of the overwhelming majority of Sahaba (Allah be pleased with them) and Tabi’in (followers). Only the Ja’fariyya sect amongst the Shi’a and those who followed the literal meaning of the texts, like Imam Ibn Taymiyya and his student Ibn al-Qayyim differed with this view. There view, however, was not accepted by the majority of the Ummah (See Ibn Qudama in al-Mugni , V:7, P:104).
Some of the evidences declaring the three divorces to be in effect:
1) Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an:
“Divorce is (only permissible) twice, thereafter either retaining her honorably or releasing her kindly...If he divorces her (the third time), she will not be lawful for him unless she marries another husband (and he also divorces her)” (Surah al-Baqarah, V:229/230).
2) Sayyidatuna Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reports that: A man pronounced three divorces to his wife. She (after her Iddah) married another man. The Messenger of Allah was asked if it was lawful for her to return to the first husband. He said: “ Not until they havesexual intercourse” (Recorded by Imam al-Bukhari in his Sahih)
It is clear from the above Hadith that three divorces at once will be effected. The woman was allowed to marry another man. The Prophet of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) would have surely pointed out, had three divorces did not come into effect at once.
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=170&CATE=11

So you see, it's something you guys have to sort within yourselves.

Like i have emphasized, it does not matter what people say or think. What's important for any believer in God is that His laws are followed verbatim in the right context. The prophet could not have been ordered one thing in the Quran, then he goes on and does something different....it's impossible.

Saint Paris: No you're wrong, and even contradictory. Verses [2:226-227]Those who intend to divorce their wives shall wait four months; this one is saying four months while 65:4-5]As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. Which is it? Four months or three months? Now back at what you accuse 'islamophobes' of, this idea is supported by many scholars. It's even obvious in the quran.....

It's okay. I know it isn't easy to assimilate everything i put up there all at once. However, if you look closely at what i wrote, there is not a contradiction. You have just mixed everything up. 2:226-227 is talking about a waiting period before divorce. I even put it in bold in my post(check out point #2). 2:228 and 64:4 are talking about post divorce interim. Two different things. Re-read my post carefully.

Saint Paris: And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

﴿وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ﴾

(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;

﴿إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ﴾

http://www.islamicstudies.info/ibnkathir/ibnkathir.php?sid=65&tid=54196

Here another by Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an - The Meaning of the Qur'an

13 They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge atall throughout life which, though rare, may alsobe the case. In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation, that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.

Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Qur'an the question of the waiting period arisesin respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur'an has held as permissible.

http://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/65/index.html
Again know where to point your accusing fingers.

This is not from the quran. The translation and the tafsirs(quranic exegeses) you have used are obviously satanic. No where in the quran is it allowed to marry under-aged girls. Contrast my translation of 65:4 and that of other translations. Such translations and Tafsirs are gross and demonstrates how perverted these people are. Unfortunately, these are the kinds of translations and Tafsir(Quranic explanation) most muslims follow. As a result, they are been deprived of the truth embedded in the Quran. Equally unfortunate is that the non-muslims use these satanic sources as a standard for judging the Quran.

Here is the verse again:

[65:4-5]As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him.

What the first half of the verse is saying is that the interim for a woman who has reached menopause is three months with effect from the time of divorce if one is uncertain such a woman could still conceive or not. The second half of the verse is with regards to women who have not reached menopause, and their menstrual cycles stops- then if such cessation of menstrual flow was due to pregnancy, their interim expires when they give birth. Otherwise, if the cessation was due to some abnormalities, then their interim is still three menstruation as mentioned in 2:228. This is what the verse means and not as the perverts will have us believe.

You being a neutral person wouldn't know which translation is correct. But here is the wisdom behind God ensuring that the Arabic was preserved. Let me show you how these perverts deliberately mistranslated the Quran. They broke down the verse into four parts instead of three, giving the idea that three different categories where mentioned.



[size=14pt]

Correct Way to break down the verse:

وَالّٰـٔى يَئِسنَ مِنَ المَحيضِ مِن نِسائِكُم إِنِ ارتَبتُم فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلٰثَةُ أَشهُرٍ

وَالّٰـٔى لَم يَحِضنَ وَأُولٰتُ الأَحمالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعنَ حَملَهُنَّ

وَمَن يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجعَل لَهُ مِن أَمرِهِ يُسرًا
[/size]

[size=14pt]
Wrong Way:

وَالّٰـٔى يَئِسنَ مِنَ المَحيضِ مِن نِسائِكُم إِنِ ارتَبتُم فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلٰثَةُ أَشهُرٍ

وَالّٰـٔى لَم يَحِضنَ

وَأُولٰتُ الأَحمالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعنَ حَملَهُنَّ

وَمَن يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجعَل لَهُ مِن أَمرِهِ يُسرًا
[/size]




There are many more deliberately mistranslated verses like that. The worst i have come across so far is 4:157 translation by Halali & Khan. And such translation was endorsed by the Saudi government. I urge any sincere muslim to go check it out. This perversion is from their HADITHS which they derive their so-called Tafsir(Quranic exegeses) from. They love under-age girls, why won't they promote such. That is why you find in HADITH books pornography, pros.titution and the likes being promoted in a subtle manner(breast feeding a man, Temporary marriage etcetera).

Saint Paris: 2:237 couldn't possibly be referring to both man and woman or do women pay dowry? But take a careful look at what the verse says again.
[2:237]If you divorce them before touching them, but after you had set the dowry for them, the compensation shall be half the dowry, unless they voluntarily forfeit their rights, or the party responsible for causing the divorce chooses to forfeit the dowry. To forfeit is closer to righteousness. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. GOD is Seer of everything you do.
Isn't this khole? Khole is when women agree to forgo alimony and to repay their husbands any dowry in exchange of having the right to divorce. It is supported by this hadith: abudawud12.2220 . Is that fair?

This is a great tool in the hand of a man who wants to get rid of his wife and not pay her alimony and get back the dowry. All he has to do is to make her life miserable until she takes her freedom and forgoes her rights. This happens everyday where Sharia is practiced.

Please re-read the verse carefully. I despise verbosity, but sometimes it can't be helped. The keyword to note in the verse is: "or the party responsible". Dowry is paid by a man. However, if a woman is the cause for the divorce, the quran is saying she should forfeit the dowry- as this is more righteous. In other words, a woman can divorce the man. I don't want to have to explain everything. If you are still not convinced, then i shall elaborate.

Saint Paris: I do not see any justice in this. Again we still have the case of a man uttering divorce thrice which is even Permissible by sharia as i earlier pointed out This is the position held by all the Sunni schools of Islamic law, i.e, Hanafi, Shafi’i, Maliki and the Hanbali.

Like i have said all along, it does not matter what the Hanbali, Maliki, Hanafi or the Shafi'i SUNNI followers think. The fact remains it is un-quranic and unacceptable. All reasonable persons should speak against it.

Saint Paris: Now this is quite something. You don't believe in hadiths at all? All of them?

This is why: HADITH

Saint Paris: So what do you know about your Prophet's life or that he even existed?

Religion is not about the prophets or messengers and how they led their lives. Religion is about God and strict conformity with His laws. The messengers and Prophets were simply conduits for conveying a message from God to MAN. What is important is how these prophets taught us to submit to God and not the life style they led. The quran details all we need to know about GOD, SATAN, The Angels, Muhammad, Jesus and all other prophets and messengers. More importantly, the Quran details the complete pathway to GOD.

Saint Paris: do you choose and pick which to believe?

God forbid. I am trying hard to avoid HELL. Anything that comes from SATAN....I reject([url=http://submission.org/QI#6%3A112-113]6:112-113[/url]).

Saint Paris: Majority of Muslims do live by both tradition (hadiths) and ofcourse the Quran.

That's their decision. Every decision we make in this life have consequences, provided we are prepared for what comes out of it....No wahala! Anyway, the majority most often are led astray.([url=http://submission.org/QI#6%3A116]6:116[/url])

Saint Paris: The ball is in your court.

O, i didn't realize that!. ok, i have the ball now......dashing towards the opponents court....got passed the defenses......about to make a slam dunk....you better duck cos the rim may shatter.....DUuuNkkkk!!! Oh my ....Rim in pieces now .


I have a gift for you: *[url=https://1cabb384-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/evidenceofgod/Quran.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cqxefBGCU-DajQuUDmVVyKC1wSWXbaaLYj4Uls6pV5Uvjn2g7AoNmIUmCwJUFkmAYFfbGA4Datu1TQslXzJBTFKvS69XgQuFf2DwkYubPDfGyLU6_qvnxSTNVmCCFEfb_dTzQvNoNOjRyVw_HKKnuy6C0gqso8Zcb1g1d_QSEHvj6egCx_aSrMGZ36T7aDTaJ8JQhMOz3bueGL2mJ5TCd-4mi2h4A%3D%3D&attredirects=0]GIFT[/url]*

Peace to you Ma'am/Sir.


www.submission.org

www.miracleof19.org

www.masjidtucson.org

......Hmmmmmmmm
......my dream of an ideal forum......
......where speeches are more civilized ......and vulgar words "non existent"..............
......"almost non existent"

Thanks Usisky for all your explanations, i think we all know where the root of the problem comes from. Thanks for the gift as well and oh talking about defense you'd have to see @piersmorgan latest tweets 'bout Gunners to know it's in pieces.

See ya

usisky:




@ USISKY, Peace

I appreciate your contribution above and its clarity. Also your chouce of words is exemplary. May God reward us for our Good deeds, Forgive our errors and make us better Muslims.

My Concern is your claim of disbelief in the Hadith. I understand that almost all groups refer to the Hadith to back their claims and the Hadith is not free of false information. But Dont you think there are some true information in it as well?

Edit: Also, according to the link,

1: How do you guys know that it was the last 2 verses in Surah 9 that was added?
2: Who said your calculation of 19 could not have been a fluke that you use it to detect an addition to the Quran-(what if your thoughts are wrong as humans)?
3: Are yu saying that Allah Could not keep his promise to protect the Quran for 1400 years?
4: When Ali was a khalf, why did he not restore your acclaimed original Quran?

The history you refer to about Ali being in his house and not wanting to go out cos of addition to the Quran was from what Source...... hope its not the Hadith since you do not believe in the Hadith.
and i suppose you dont pray 5 times (2-4-4-3-4) daily cos that is according to the Hadith you dont believe in.

May God guide us to the right Path, the path of those who have earned his favour and not those who have gone astray.

on the relevance of Hadith in Islam, can you please tell me about surah Masad. A non-muslim will ask you if your God will curse a man for no reason -what will you say?

While the Quran has it all, Hadith helps you put the information together, gain better understanding of the Quran. if any hadith contradicts the Quran, it is not to be given relevance, that does not mean that Hadith generally is not relevant.

'If a matter is for you to be decided, reference the Quran, if you cannot understand it in the Quran, use the Hadith......" there is an hadith as such, the hadith Judgement should always conform with the Quran but the Quran should always be the first point of call.

The prophet has exemplary behaviour: the Quran teaches that. some Hadith shows that and some show otherwise, a muslim will consider the hadith that conform with the Quran and be careful about the Other that is contradictory.

Geez, Why you trying so hard to prove that your Quran is incomplete and useless without some man made narration? The Quran claims to be the Qur’an, on repeated occasions reiterates its claim to be a clear book (5:15) easy to understand (44:58, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40) explained in detail (6:114), conveyed clearly , (5:16, 10:15) with no doubt in it (2:1), with clear ordinances , ( 98:3 ), of divine nature , ( 10:37 ) full of wisdom , ( 36:2 ) etc. Yet you tell us that we must first learn its “hadiths” in order to understand its meaning or Islam. If that is the case then what shall we make of the above claims of the clarity of the Qur’an? If we first need to learn the “hadiths” before we begin to understand it, then the claim that the book is clear and easy to understand is false.

Goodluck to you in your quest of trying to prove that the quran is incomplete. Not sure if you'll need it, still