One of the significant sources of puzzlement to novices of the bible is that the christian religions claims there are two separate laws jurisdictions encoded in the Book; those pertaining to the Old Testament and those of the New Testament. And that with the advent of Jesus, the Old Testament laws are no longer in effective. But is this what Jesus himself is said to have said?

If so, at what point in his lifetime were the old laws wiped away? Was at his birth, teens, puberty, adulthood, death, resurrection, ascension, etc?

For people whose lives spanned the period of Jesus's existence on earth, on what premises would they have based their laws? Say someone was born on the same days as Jesus and lived till he/she was 65 years old (died 65CE). What religious laws would they have observed?

Would Jesus have been an observant of the Jewish dietary laws?

This is what Jesus had to say about the Law. Matthew 5: 14 - 27. The relevant verses are 17 - 24, but I have included some verse before and some verse after to forestall any charges of lifting verses out of context ( a characteristically common accusation)


14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


[b]17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
[/b]
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery



Now, this is Jesus recommending that his followers be even more sticklers for the laws than the Pharisees. What does this mean?

That we should observed the dietary laws as the Pharisees did?
That we should stone adulterer as the Pharisees would have recommended?
That we kill our children if they insult or hit us? (Exodus 21;17)
That we perform human sacrifices as called for in Lev 27:29?
That a woman who is not a virgin on the night of marriage be stoned?

Was Jesus really recommending such behaviour?



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Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

====================================================================================================

you forgot the laws on how to treat slaves.

“When you buy a Hebrew slave, six years shall he serve; and in the seventh shall he go out free, for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and the children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the slave shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: then his master shall bring him unto God, and he shall bring him to the door or unto the door-post, and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.”

—Exodus 21:2-6.

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.”

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Many thanks Bawomolo.

therationa et bawomol you guys never cease to amaze and amuse me, 

@Therationa

Was Jesus really recommending such behaviour?

pls i need answers tooo

IDINRETE:

therationa et bawomol you guys never cease to amaze and amuse me,

Precisely! They never cease to be so amusing.

In any case, before going on to discuss your misgivings on this subject, I'd first ask that you address this question: what was the purpose of the OT Laws?

It's a one-line, direct and simple question, thank you.

Stimulus,

"what was the purpose of the OT Laws?"

I do not know. Please enlighten me.

@ posta
Bumped I guess its a waste of time reading your post. No offence meant.

why are u guys struggling to explain the significance of Old testament text??

bawomolo:

why are u guys struggling to explain the significance of Old testament text??

we are not struggling to explain anything . . . its hard to keep up with the rate at which u godless souls open up threads each time you are exposed for being nothing but plagiarists on another.

we are not struggling to explain anything . . . its hard to keep up with the rate at which u godless souls open up threads each time you are exposed for being nothing but plagiarists on another.

lol, i'm cracking up right now. so what was plagiarized in this thread

The Law of God is never changed for once. God is not man. So the issue of Old testament law does not even arise.

The Law of God is Law of God.

Beware what you call law might not neccessarily be laws. Think well before you argue further on this topic.

Shallom!

Beware what you call law might not neccessarily be laws. Think well before you argue further on this topic.

so which of these aren't neccessarily laws. you guys seem to be tip-toeing around the question. can the christians be more specific please.

I am still waiting on OT law lessons on this one.

Any takers on this one yet?

@therationa,

therationa:

Stimulus,

"what was the purpose of the OT Laws?"

I do not know. Please enlighten me.

I honestly do not believe you'd have no clue! I was hoping that you'd be able to offer some substance to that question first before assuming some premise thereto.

No, I'm not asking you to first be a law-student; but perhaps it would have been more helpful to understand the nature of the law itself before you make your propositions.

bawomolo:

you guys seem to be tip-toeing around the question.

I was willing to discuss the subject/question - therefore I made a proposal. I don't see how you have tried to address it before assuming anyone was tip-toeing around any question.

And no, hiding behind the excuse that either you or therationa does not know the purpose of the law will not do! To do so is to adopt a confirmed position of being intellectually weak in the proposal you made.

And no, hiding behind the excuse that either you or therationa does not know the purpose of the law will not do!

what was the purpose of the slavery laws.

bawomolo:

what was the purpose of the slavery laws.

I proposed a direct question to entering this discussion: "what was the purpose of the OT Laws?"

You have ducked that question to hide behind the usual excuse of a narrow loop. If you guys can attempt that singular question, I'd oblige to fill the gaps where necessary in your assumptions. Do you care to attempt it?

Stimulus,

The purpose of any law is to regulate society. I presume this would also apply to the OT laws, wouldn't it. I stand corrected, of course.

@therationa
you need to learn how to interpret the bible holistically. You are running on the wrong road.

You MUST also consider other saying of Jesus such as ->

""A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."
-John 13:34

and many others, before asking your questions.

Imhotep,

This kind of stuff is very patronising. Do you need to be told to LOVE people?

therationa:

Imhotep,

This kind of stuff is very patronising. Do you need to be told to LOVE people?

Yes, we all need to be told[i] to love as Christ loved[/i]. And I tell you again that you need to TAKE OUT TIME and learn how to interpret the bible holistically.

Imhotep,

OK, go ahead. Give it all to us so we may know what the OT/NT laws business is all about.

Imhotep & Stimulus,


I am still waiting on this one

therationa:

Imhotep,

OK, go ahead. Give it all to us so we may know what the OT/NT laws business is all about.

You should know that your request is beyond the scope of this forum. There is a lot to be read and imbibed by you.

However, I refer you to Summa Theologiae by Thomas Aquinas. He answered many of your questions in the 13th century.

Online copy here -> http://www.op.org/summa/. You can download a pdf version there too,

you're asking for chicken and goat meat when you haven't learned how to drink milk!

Doesn't matter if imhotep or stimulus supplied you with the answer that's why they haven't, becos you're not ready for it. You haven't yet understood that Jesus came to suffer and die for humankind, yet you want to go into the law and how it relates to the gospel and what purpose it serves

I suggest you rewind and start at the gospel of John. . .stop trying to understand things that are way to complicated for your unsaved mind.

stop trying to understand things that are way to complicated for your unsaved mind.

what's the difference between a saved and an unsaved mind? brainwashing?? why regulate the use of slaves if u are supposed to love thy neighbor. is enslavement or indentured servitude a form of love and compassion. would u mind to be LOVED as a PROPERTY of mine

Therationa, I am interested to find out why you are so concerned about the ten commandements, do they pick on your conscience or what,

Maybe its time to seek Christ, who can clean you from an unclean conscience and help you over the pain, that comes from being full of knowledge and yet lacking in understanding of the Word of God.

@therationa,

therationa:

Stimulus,

The purpose of any law is to regulate society. I presume this would also apply to the OT laws, wouldn't it. I stand corrected, of course.

Thank you for attempting an answer. Perhaps I was hoping to see a more specific purpose of the OT Law than a broadly terse quip about any law?

Perhaps then by the same inference we may ask if any law would not be preposterious when asking what type of law you're speaking about? Which was why I specifically was about the OT Law!

@bawomolo,

bawomolo:

what's the difference between a saved and an unsaved mind? brainwashing??

Why does 'brainwashing' have to be the immediate premise to come to your mind when you have demonstrated the inability to reason your arguments through, other than the excuses you schlep unto from others?

bawomolo:

why regulate the use of slaves if u are supposed to love thy neighbor. is enslavement or indentured servitude a form of love and compassion.

This is why I asked a simple question earlier: what is the purpose of the OT Laws? Perhaps, I should more specifically say: what is the purpose of the OT LAW (if the plural 'Laws' seems somewhat enigmatic to you and your friends).

bawomolo:

would u mind to be LOVED as a PROPERTY of mine

Perhaps if you had a ratified LAW like the one you're arguing against.

bawomolo:

what's the difference between a saved and an unsaved mind? brainwashing?? why regulate the use of slaves if u are supposed to love thy neighbor. is enslavement or indentured servitude a form of love and compassion. would u mind to be LOVED as a PROPERTY of mine

A saved mind is at the least able to differentiate between a man and a woman. In other words, it is not enslaved by homosexuality.