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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? (2217 Views)
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Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 2:32pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
One of the significant sources of puzzlement to novices of the bible is that the christian religions claims there are two separate laws jurisdictions encoded in the Book; those pertaining to the Old Testament and those of the New Testament. And that with the advent of Jesus, the Old Testament laws are no longer in effective. But is this what Jesus himself is said to have said? If so, at what point in his lifetime were the old laws wiped away? Was at his birth, teens, puberty, adulthood, death, resurrection, ascension, etc? For people whose lives spanned the period of Jesus's existence on earth, on what premises would they have based their laws? Say someone was born on the same days as Jesus and lived till he/she was 65 years old (died 65CE). What religious laws would they have observed? Would Jesus have been an observant of the Jewish dietary laws? This is what Jesus had to say about the Law. Matthew 5: 14 - 27. The relevant verses are 17 - 24, but I have included some verse before and some verse after to forestall any charges of lifting verses out of context ( a characteristically common accusation) 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. [b]17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. [/b] 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery Now, this is Jesus recommending that his followers be even more sticklers for the laws than the Pharisees. What does this mean? That we should observed the dietary laws as the Pharisees did? That we should stone adulterer as the Pharisees would have recommended? That we kill our children if they insult or hit us? (Exodus 21;17) That we perform human sacrifices as called for in Lev 27:29? That a woman who is not a virgin on the night of marriage be stoned? Was Jesus really recommending such behaviour? ===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632 Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426 Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340 Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311 When Was Jesus Crucified? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665 On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam) https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353 Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528 Where Did Sin Originate? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291 For The Non-beleivers Only, 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957 Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631 Has Atheism Got Principle? No https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180 It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940 Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682 Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268 Great Books About Non-belief https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935 Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137 Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155 Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099 Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975 Genesis Vs Genetics https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Jesus Genealogy https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616 £300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508 Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160 ==================================================================================================== |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by bawomolo(m): 2:48pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
you forgot the laws on how to treat slaves. “When you buy a Hebrew slave, six years shall he serve; and in the seventh shall he go out free, for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and the children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the slave shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: then his master shall bring him unto God, and he shall bring him to the door or unto the door-post, and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.” —Exodus 21:2-6. “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.” However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 2:53pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
Many thanks Bawomolo. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by IDINRETE: 3:37pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
therationa et bawomol you guys never cease to amaze and amuse me, |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by router(m): 3:41pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
@Therationa Was Jesus really recommending such behaviour?pls i need answers tooo |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by stimulus(m): 3:50pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
IDINRETE: Precisely! They never cease to be so amusing. In any case, before going on to discuss your misgivings on this subject, I'd first ask that you address this question: what was the purpose of the OT Laws? It's a one-line, direct and simple question, thank you. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 4:28pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
Stimulus, "what was the purpose of the OT Laws?" I do not know. Please enlighten me. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by Eclairs: 4:38pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
@ posta Bumped I guess its a waste of time reading your post. No offence meant. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by bawomolo(m): 5:18pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
why are u guys struggling to explain the significance of Old testament text?? |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by 4Him(m): 5:22pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
bawomolo: we are not struggling to explain anything . . . its hard to keep up with the rate at which u godless souls open up threads each time you are exposed for being nothing but plagiarists on another. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by bawomolo(m): 5:28pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
we are not struggling to explain anything . . . its hard to keep up with the rate at which u godless souls open up threads each time you are exposed for being nothing but plagiarists on another. lol, i'm cracking up right now. so what was plagiarized in this thread |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by dafidixone(m): 5:54pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
The Law of God is never changed for once. God is not man. So the issue of Old testament law does not even arise. The Law of God is Law of God. Beware what you call law might not neccessarily be laws. Think well before you argue further on this topic. Shallom! |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by bawomolo(m): 6:06pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
Beware what you call law might not neccessarily be laws. Think well before you argue further on this topic. so which of these aren't neccessarily laws. you guys seem to be tip-toeing around the question. can the christians be more specific please. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 7:35pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
I am still waiting on OT law lessons on this one. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 8:49pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
Any takers on this one yet? |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by stimulus(m): 8:50pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
@therationa, therationa: I honestly do not believe you'd have no clue! I was hoping that you'd be able to offer some substance to that question first before assuming some premise thereto. No, I'm not asking you to first be a law-student; but perhaps it would have been more helpful to understand the nature of the law itself before you make your propositions. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by stimulus(m): 8:54pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
bawomolo: I was willing to discuss the subject/question - therefore I made a proposal. I don't see how you have tried to address it before assuming anyone was tip-toeing around any question. And no, hiding behind the excuse that either you or therationa does not know the purpose of the law will not do! To do so is to adopt a confirmed position of being intellectually weak in the proposal you made. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by bawomolo(m): 11:15pm On Feb 12, 2008 |
And no, hiding behind the excuse that either you or therationa does not know the purpose of the law will not do! what was the purpose of the slavery laws. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by stimulus(m): 8:41am On Feb 13, 2008 |
bawomolo: I proposed a direct question to entering this discussion: "what was the purpose of the OT Laws?" You have ducked that question to hide behind the usual excuse of a narrow loop. If you guys can attempt that singular question, I'd oblige to fill the gaps where necessary in your assumptions. Do you care to attempt it? |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 9:45am On Feb 13, 2008 |
Stimulus, The purpose of any law is to regulate society. I presume this would also apply to the OT laws, wouldn't it. I stand corrected, of course. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by Nobody: 9:50am On Feb 13, 2008 |
@therationa you need to learn how to interpret the bible holistically. You are running on the wrong road. You MUST also consider other saying of Jesus such as -> ""A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." -John 13:34 and many others, before asking your questions. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 9:53am On Feb 13, 2008 |
Imhotep, This kind of stuff is very patronising. Do you need to be told to LOVE people? |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by Nobody: 9:55am On Feb 13, 2008 |
therationa:Yes, we all need to be told[i] to love as Christ loved[/i]. And I tell you again that you need to TAKE OUT TIME and learn how to interpret the bible holistically. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 9:58am On Feb 13, 2008 |
Imhotep, OK, go ahead. Give it all to us so we may know what the OT/NT laws business is all about. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by therationa(m): 5:40pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
Imhotep & Stimulus, I am still waiting on this one |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by Nobody: 5:48pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
therationa: You should know that your request is beyond the scope of this forum. There is a lot to be read and imbibed by you. However, I refer you to Summa Theologiae by Thomas Aquinas. He answered many of your questions in the 13th century. Online copy here -> http://www.op.org/summa/. You can download a pdf version there too, |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by JeSoul(f): 5:54pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
you're asking for chicken and goat meat when you haven't learned how to drink milk! Doesn't matter if imhotep or stimulus supplied you with the answer that's why they haven't, becos you're not ready for it. You haven't yet understood that Jesus came to suffer and die for humankind, yet you want to go into the law and how it relates to the gospel and what purpose it serves I suggest you rewind and start at the gospel of John. . .stop trying to understand things that are way to complicated for your unsaved mind. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by bawomolo(m): 7:23pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
stop trying to understand things that are way to complicated for your unsaved mind. what's the difference between a saved and an unsaved mind? brainwashing?? why regulate the use of slaves if u are supposed to love thy neighbor. is enslavement or indentured servitude a form of love and compassion. would u mind to be LOVED as a PROPERTY of mine |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by Nobody: 7:45pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
Therationa, I am interested to find out why you are so concerned about the ten commandements, do they pick on your conscience or what, Maybe its time to seek Christ, who can clean you from an unclean conscience and help you over the pain, that comes from being full of knowledge and yet lacking in understanding of the Word of God. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by stimulus(m): 7:49pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
@therationa, therationa: Thank you for attempting an answer. Perhaps I was hoping to see a more specific purpose of the OT Law than a broadly terse quip about any law? Perhaps then by the same inference we may ask if any law would not be preposterious when asking what type of law you're speaking about? Which was why I specifically was about the OT Law! |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by stimulus(m): 7:56pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
@bawomolo, bawomolo: Why does 'brainwashing' have to be the immediate premise to come to your mind when you have demonstrated the inability to reason your arguments through, other than the excuses you schlep unto from others? bawomolo: This is why I asked a simple question earlier: what is the purpose of the OT Laws? Perhaps, I should more specifically say: what is the purpose of the OT LAW (if the plural 'Laws' seems somewhat enigmatic to you and your friends). bawomolo: Perhaps if you had a ratified LAW like the one you're arguing against. |
Re: Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era? by Nobody: 8:00pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
bawomolo: A saved mind is at the least able to differentiate between a man and a woman. In other words, it is not enslaved by homosexuality. |
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