mazaje:

The body is made up of billions of living cells. . .when they die off begin to rot away what do you expect?. . .So soul is the countless living cells or what?

TroGunn:

Of course, the living soul is different from the body. Also, the spirit distinct form the living soul, though you lot try to make them same to fool the ignorant.
From Genesis 2:7, body + breath of life (spirit) = living soul (man).
Conversely dead man = {body + breath of life (spirit)} - breath of life (spirit) = body = dead soul. It's why the scriptures comfortably uses nephesh (soul) for dead bodies or corpses (dead souls).

I see you have disowned the "immortal" part of your soul theory - that's progress.

Mr_Anony:
Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?

TroGunn:

Of course, the living soul is different from the body. Also, the spirit distinct form the living soul, though you lot try to make them same to fool the ignorant.
From Genesis 2:7, body + breath of life (spirit) = living soul (man).
Conversely dead man = {body + breath of life (spirit)} - breath of life (spirit) = body = dead soul. It's why the scriptures comfortably uses nephesh (soul) for dead bodies or corpses (dead souls).

I see you have disowned the "immortal" part of your soul theory - that's progress.

You are wrong. Greek "pnuema" has also been used to describe "mental disposition/state of mind/mental state" like the Hebrew equivalent "ruach". Clear example below:
Rom 11:8 - "...God gave them a spirit (pnuema) of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day". (NIV)
"..'God gave to them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes not to see, and ears not to hear,' -- unto this very day" (Young's)

Surely this does not refer to a sprit being but of a mental state of drowsines - as these other translations of same verse show:

"...To this day God has put them into deep sleep. Their eyes do not see, and their ears do not hear." (Intl Standard Version)
"...God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear." (NLT).

This is actually a direct quote from what Isaiah wrote concerning Ephraim, where Hebrew "ruach" is used for "spirit" --

Isaiah 29: 10-13 - "For the LORD has poured over you a spirit (ruach) of deep sleep , He has shut your eyes, the prophets;And He has covered your heads, the seers.The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, “Please read this,” he will say, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”12Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, “Please read this.” And he will say, “I cannot read.” Then the Lord said,“Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote"...

Note that same "ruach" is the Hebrew word used for spirt in 1Ki 10:4, 5 - "And when the queen of Sheba had seen all the wisdom of Solomon, the house that he had built, the food on his table, the seating of his servants, the service of his waiters and their apparel, his cupbearers, and his entryway by which he went up to the house of the Lord, there was no more spirit in her. " meaning she was overwhelmed.

Your choice if you want to hinge your soul doctrine on Solomon's question in verse 21, even though such a view contradicts his earlier statements in verses 19 and 20 - no difference in death of man and animal. If anything, his question demands prove from those who say that man has a different spirit that animates him to that of animals. Clearly Solomon understood death (Eccl 9:5,6,10) and that the impersonal life-force (breath or spirit) that animates a living man is same that animates a living animal(Eccl 3).

Eccl 3:18 - 21 (NLT) - "18 I also thought about the human condition—how God proves to people that they are like animals. 19For people and animals share the same fate—both breathe (OR both have the same spirit) and both must die. So people have no real advantage over the animals. How meaningless! 20Both go to the same place—they came from dust and they return to dust. 21For who can prove that the human spirit goes up and the spirit of animals goes down into the earth?"

frosbel:
We are all here to learn , including myself and Anony. I do hope he has discarded the pre-existence of the soul and it's subsequent immortality after death.

truthislight:

plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structur construction

If the structure does not die, what then really died?
Lol.

Logicboy03:


Mtchew. The whole is more than the summation of parts. You have to understand that the brian is at the centre of our consciousness and our body system but we have blood, valves, nerves and neurons that have to work within and outside of the brain for our brain/consciousness to arise.

The word "mind" explains it, The brain is the organ while the mind is simply the result of brain working with the summation of other parts of the body.

Logicboy03: Deep Sight

Furthermore, I can see through your Anonyism and Dinesh tactics to put in a straw man and try to phrase the mind as a "being" so that you can slyly insert the soul as being within humans.


The mind is not a being. Stop the lies. It is a function of the brain.

Kay 17:

The mystery of the physical. Spacetime isn't matter nor energy, and neither can it seen or touched or felt. Yet its considered physical.

Mr_Anony:
Please frosbel don't jump unto something false that is a misrepresentation of my stance.

I have made it clear on this thread that I am not arguing the mortality/immortality of the soul neither am I arguing the differences between soul and spirit.
I will only limitmy argument on this thread to showing that there is a distinction between the physical body of man and the real man which is non-physical and this non-physical aspect of man continues after physical death. I will call him the soul but I will oblige you if you choose to call him spirit, mind, consciousness, being e.t.c.

truthislight:

frosbel:


apologies if this is the case, but the concept of immortality is that a person does not die and by inference even if the body experiences phsyical death, the person lives on.

This is false.




You seem to have formed a habit of overlooking the beginning which is Gen 2:7. Here man is called a SOUL only after the breath of live animates his body. I agree the real MAN is his internal consciousness which is a combination of his spiritual aspect and body's physiological functionality.

The crux of the matter is this, when a MAN dies , does he remain in a state of consciousness , and the biblical answer is NO.

To suggest that some other part of MAN post-exists the body is to make a huge assumption that when a MAN dies he does not die completely but dies only bodily. Again this is false.

No part of MAN can exist without the other, he is a complete MAN because of the co-existence of his various ingredients.

This concept of a soul that survives the body is rather false and is Greek thought introduced and interjected unto scripture by the so called ' church fathers' whatever that means.

Kay 17:

I don't think proprietary context do or assist in understanding the mystery of our consciousness. The brain can't be effectively separated from a living body (within human experience) without losing consciousness.

Presently, the dynamics and the complexity of the human brain has given us insights to our understanding of languages, thoughts, awakening. More like our CPU. The biochemical explanations seem stronger and more practical than the soul explanation.

davidylan:

Matthew 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

frosbel:

care to explain this using Gen2:7 a the baseline ?

davidylan:

I think Jesus Christ couldnt be more clear - every man has a body and a soul. A body that inhabits mortality and a soul that transcends mortality. There is no confusion there.

frosbel:

if a soul transcends mortality , why do we need a resurrection ?

Also can you explain this scripture :

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these - Jeremiah 2:34

How can souls have blood if I may ask ?

Mr_Anony:

By subjective thoughts I mean how three people can come upon the same information, their brains go through the same process to interpret it and yet these three people have three different meanings of it.

Mr_Anony:
Three different CPUs presented with the same information will result in three instances of the exact same outcome.

davidylan:

Easy. We know that the "souls" used here is a figure of speech. If Christ said in Matthew 10 that man can only kill bodies, wouldnt this verse then be a direct contradiction... stating that men have actually killed souls?

frosbel:

A Body is the MAN without the breath of GOD ( spirit) in him, a SOUL is a complete MAN with the breath of GOD ( spirit) in him.

davidylan:

So please explain Matt 10: 28 in that context.

Deep Sight:
Let us not fall into error. You do not have a soul. You are the soul. (In saying this, as we are at such an elementary stage of conditional consensus only, I will for now make no distinction between soul and spirit).

You are in fact that soul, not that you have one. This is why you exercise control over your brain. This is why you take decisions such as deciding to stand up now and take a few steps towards the door. This is a decision that you make, and which is processed through, and implemented by your brain. It is not a decision that the brain just by itself conjures for its own purposes to satisfy itself. This is the only way to sensibly regard your proprietary control of your brain. Because it shows that your brain is a tool, an organ, which enables you to apprehend and process physical reality.

As such, your question is upside down. The soul is not serving a function for the body. The body is serving functions for you - the soul. The body is enabling you to live, dwell in, apprehend and process the physical realm.

Simple.

frosbel:

Breath in this context is translated in the Greek as psuché and life in the English.

For example Jesus said in Matt 16:25

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.

Again psuché used here to describe the gift of life that GOD has given to all men , those who are saved will have this life translated into eternal life while those who die in their sins will be denied this life after judgement by their complete and utter destruction in the lake of fire.

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

davidylan:

You still didnt answer the question. What was Christ talking about in Matt 10:28?

Mr_Anony:
I think this is inaccurate. Everything within spacetime is considered physical while anything transcending spacetime is non-physical. You are commiting the blunder of defining a qualifier as part of the quality it defines.

I'll show you what I mean with this question: Are Madagascar's boundaries considered Madagascar or the Indian ocean? Neither. The boundary defines the extents of both madagascar and the Indian ocean. Consider spacetime as such a boundary that defines the extents of the physical and the non-physical.

frosbel:

You don't understand the response I gave in the last post because you refuse to understand it based on your preconceived notions of the definition of a SOUL.

Don't start Anonys tactics of slithering about , won't cut with me.

Btw, how come you have not responded to my questions and I am here trying to explain a few of your concerns ?

frosbel:


apologies if this is the case, but the concept of immortality is that a person does not die and by inference even if the body experiences phsyical death, the person lives on.

This is false.

You seem to have formed a habit of overlooking the beginning which is Gen 2:7. Here man is called a SOUL only after the breath of live animates his body. I agree the real MAN is his internal consciousness which is a combination of his spiritual aspect and body's physiological functionality.

The crux of the matter is this, when a MAN dies , does he remain in a state of consciousness , and the biblical answer is NO.

To suggest that some other part of MAN post-exists the body is to make a huge assumption that when a MAN dies he does not die completely but dies only bodily. Again this is false.

No part of MAN can exist without the other, he is a complete MAN because of the co-existence of his various ingredients.

This concept of a soul that survives the body is rather false and is Greek thought introduced and interjected into scripture by the so called ' church fathers' whatever that means.