Lagerwhenindoubt,
The passage I gave was to buttress the fact that it is in giving with a willing heart that you also receive even into abundance of wealth. The prosperity pastors are not WRONG!neither are they misleading, that is my point. in a third world country like Nigeria and Africa at large, nobody want to hear about hell anymore. That message is cruel wickedness to an hungry man who believes in God. I think a better gospel of God's love and delight in your prosperity would be a better message.as long as You end up doing it God's way and serving him better.

and Moreover, all the scriptures u quoted above did not counter mine of prov 11:24. Rather you went on to butress my point further.

oiseworld: Lagerwhenindoubt,
The passage I gave was to buttress the fact that it is in giving with a willing heart that you also receive even into abundance of wealth. The prosperity pastors are not WRONG!neither are they misleading, that is my point. in a third world country like Nigeria and Africa at large, nobody want to hear about hell anymore. That message is cruel wickedness to an hungry man who believes in God. I think a better gospel of God's love and delight in your prosperity would be a better message.as long as You end up doing it God's way and serving him better.

and Moreover, all the scriptures u quoted above did not counter mine of prov 11:24. Rather you went on to butress my point further.

will discuss this later on

frosbel:

will discuss this later on

Lol!!
Any time bro, am back for now.mind u, I know where ure heading to.

Scroll up and answer the question I asked u.

oiseworld: Lagerwhenindoubt,
The passage I gave was to buttress the fact that it is in giving with a willing heart that you also receive even into abundance of wealth. The prosperity pastors are not WRONG!neither are they misleading, that is my point. in a third world country like Nigeria and Africa at large, nobody want to hear about hell anymore. That message is cruel wickedness to an hungry man who believes in God. I think a better gospel of God's love and delight in your prosperity would be a better message.as long as You end up doing it God's way and serving him better.

and Moreover, all the scriptures u quoted above did not counter mine of prov 11:24. Rather you went on to butress my point further.

My rather long post was not to counter but to expose the fact that it is NOT a secret only MOGs know. if you note the RED parts of the verses, you will see that a lot of Prosperity Preachers neglect to complete the verses that are obviously linked to each other and prefer to quote only parts which they use to leverage on the flock to give to the clergy. you can confirm this every time they quote such verses to back up their instructions to give up you cash. Prosperity is an add-on to living a Healthy Christian Life and the Rules are clearly stated in the Bible in simple ABC. False MOGs manipulate scripture to their benefit ONLY

Woe !!! Unto any man of God that manipulates the scripture for their own gain only. May God not allow them.
Have u indirectly said most men of God don't preach about caring for your neighbors and the poor In general. Then u are wrong. The major MOGs in Nigeria do very well.

You need to clarify better.

lagerwhenindoubt: @oiseworld
The Act of GIVING (A simple concept that needs no spiritual explanation or theological comprehension) is talking about Giving to the Poor. Tithing is a totally different matter OGA!! If I did not understand (study, meditate and keeps the word on my lips) I would not be an atheist today.

Even self confessed atheists can discuss giving better than some self proclaimed prosperity peddlers.

Bro are you sure you're an atheist?

Would you give if you were told you would receive nothing in return? Honest reply.
Most of these prosperity preachers when talking about giving, hammer so much on giving to the church (I'm talking about the building where they hold their social gatherings) and not to those who truly need help. Instead of giving to that poor woman who needs food, we give to someone who is already well fed. You'll here them saying give to God but how do you give to God? Is it not by helping your neighbour in need?

oiseworld:

Now am getting a better picture to all this anti prosperity people, you just are inexperienced, and ha e not taken time to practice these teachings.
you say their are no secrets, what whole you say about this scripture.

Proverbs 11:24 One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

How would you explain that it is in giving that you get wealth. Isn't that a secret revealed? Get to
understand the Bible before you start criticizing.


To your second ?.
you should not be one side in preaching the gospel, ok. But failure in one is failure in all. If the bible instructs us to give to get wealth then failure to do soo is a sin.

Does the bible teach us not to help other people? No.

Does God loves a cheerful Giver? Yes.

Is that ^^^ the purpose of christianity? No.

See what the purpose of christianity is:


"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
...............

Dont leave substance and be chasing the shadows.

debosky: @largerwhenindoubt

Even self confessed atheists can discuss giving better than some self proclaimed prosperity peddlers.

Bro are you sure you're an atheist?

even me sef have just been reading the guy and could not write again.

@lagerwhenindoubt

Good Job.

debosky:

Even self confessed atheists can discuss giving better than some self proclaimed prosperity peddlers.

Bro are you sure you're an atheist?

Confirmed.. but nothing says I cannot study Christianity or read the Bible.

truthislight:

even me sef have just been reading the guy and could not write again.

@lagerwhenindoubt

Good Job.

Thanks, all in a day's job

truthislight:

Does the bible teach us not to help other people? No.

Does God loves a cheerful Giver? Yes.

Is that ^^^ the purpose of christianity? No.

See what the purpose of christianity is:


"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
...............

Dont leave substance and be chasing the shadows.

You are all the same. Jst like the woman in the story above.

if i may ask, How do the these men of God preach prosperity? Because I know you can't serve God half way.

The most important thing is that the gospel is been preached, either thru prosperity preaching or through hell fire messages.etc you can't separate the gospel of Christ.it is too large and it is one. Just like the Father,Son and HolyGhost.(trinity)

@truthslight,
Pls stay out if it tires u.

oiseworld:

You are all the same. Jst like the woman in the story above.

if i may ask, How do the these men of God preach prosperity? Because I know you can't serve God half way.

The most important thing is that the gospel is been preached, either thru prosperity preaching or through hell fire messages.etc you can't separate the gospel of Christ.it is too large and it is one. Just like the Father,Son and HolyGhost.(trinity)

@truthslight,
Pls stay out if it tires u.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

How can it saved people if it is not the truth?


peoples lives are at stake guy.

oiseworld: Lagerwhenindoubt,
The passage I gave was to buttress the fact that it is in giving with a willing heart that you also receive even into abundance of wealth. The prosperity pastors are not WRONG!neither are they misleading, that is my point. in a third world country like Nigeria and Africa at large, nobody want to hear about hell anymore. That message is cruel wickedness to an hungry man who believes in God. I think a better gospel of God's love and delight in your prosperity would be a better message.as long as You end up doing it God's way and serving him better.

and Moreover, all the scriptures u quoted above did not counter mine of prov 11:24. Rather you went on to butress my point further.

The prosperity teachings are very misleading! They are teaching greed. they are not just teaching people to be charitable only when there is a return, they are teaching them to invest (translate as 'sow') where it will yield the highest amount of return! (i.e. give to church/pastor). Giving for returns is never from a willing heart. It implies that giving will not be done when there is no return.

truthislight:

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

How can it saved people if it is not the truth?


peoples lives are at stake guy.

This is exactly where am heading to. If you prosper by hearing and practicing what you hear in prosperity messages, then you have heard the truth. The truth is a complete package that includes both prosperity and righteousness,love,giving,kindness,fear of the Lord, etc. They cannot and should not be separated from the other. THEY ARE ALL ONE.
That's why coming in thru prosperity,good health, heaven, blessings are still the most effective ways of preaching the gospel.

Don't be more catholic than the pope. If people perish everyday you can't be more concern than the one who came to die for these people.

@Zikky
am really fed up with this person sef,
see this

oiseworld:

This is exactly where am heading to. If you prosper by hearing and practicing what you hear in prosperity messages, then you have heard the truth. The truth is a complete package that includes both prosperity and righteousness,love,giving,kindness,fear of the Lord, etc. They cannot and should not be separated from the other. THEY ARE ALL ONE.
That's why coming in thru prosperity,good health, heaven, blessings are still the most effective ways of preaching the gospel.

Don't be more catholic than the pope. If people perish everyday you can't be more concern than the one who came to die for these people.

Zikky's comment will do:

Zikkyy:

The prosperity teachings are very misleading! They are teaching greed. they are not just teaching people to be charitable only when there is a return, they are teaching them to invest (translate as 'sow') where it will yield the highest amount of return! (i.e. give to church/pastor). Giving for returns is never from a willing heart. It implies that giving will not be done when there is no return.

The reply I gave above has taken care of zikkyy's post.

Stop being naive.

oiseworld:

This is exactly where am heading to. If you prosper by hearing and practicing what you hear in prosperity messages, then you have heard the truth. The truth is a complete package that includes both prosperity and righteousness,love,giving,kindness,fear of the Lord, etc. They cannot and should not be separated from the other. THEY ARE ALL ONE.
That's why coming in thru prosperity,good health, heaven, blessings are still the most effective ways of preaching the gospel.

Don't be more catholic than the pope. If people perish everyday you can't be more concern than the one who came to die for these people.

God bless you jare. Gods prosperity is with righteousness but religious people give impression as though God righteousness is against prosperity.

Proverbs 8:18
Riches and honour are with me;yea, durable riches and righteousness.

Joagbaje:

God bless you jare. Gods prosperity is with righteousness but religious people give impression as though God righteousness is against prosperity.

Proverbs 8:18
Riches and honour are with me;yea, durable riches and righteousness.

Amen, God bless u too.

oiseworld:
That's why coming in thru prosperity,good health, heaven, blessings are still the most effective ways of preaching the gospel.

The prosperity preaching is a pastoral creation (a.k.a. casino gospel), you don't win people over to the side of Christ by preaching such gospel. All you succeed in doing is creating a bunch of self centered/greedy characters.

^^ And when some of them realise that the prosperity "gospel" is a bankrupt sham and fraud, they become atheists!

Thankfully, many others are wiser to think deeper and to move on to a more mature understanding of Christianity.

Matthew 6.33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness;and all these things shall be added unto you

The preceding verses to this were emphasizing on God's ability to cater for us.

@Joagbaje/oiseworld
These are the words of Christ himself according to Matthew, stating in what order we should approach Christianity. I don't know if your prosperity teachers know better than Christ himself.

ezme: Matthew 6.33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness;and all these things shall be added unto you

The preceding verses to this were emphasizing on God's ability to cater for us.

@Joagbaje/oiseworld
These are the words of Christ himself according to Matthew, stating in what order we should approach Christianity. I don't know if your prosperity teachers know better than Christ himself.

I agree with you. Seeking Gods kingdom Is first . And nobody says other wise. God is not against prosperity . He s the blesser. Prosperity is not the same as worldliness.

ezme: Matthew 6.33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness;and all these things shall be added unto you

The preceding verses to this were emphasizing on God's ability to cater for us.

@Joagbaje/oiseworld
These are the words of Christ himself according to Matthew, stating in what order we should approach Christianity. I don't know if your prosperity teachers know better than Christ himself.

you took the words right out of my keyboards but i shall make my usually long post

lagerwhenindoubt:

you took the words right out of my keyboards but i shall make my usually long post

but why should people leave substance and be chasing shadows?

Joagbaje:

God bless you jare.Gods prosperity is with righteousness but religious people give impression as though God righteousness is against prosperity.
Proverbs 8:18 Riches and honour are with me;yea, durable riches and righteousness.

Dear @Joagbaje.
Happy 2013. I am among the few who will out-rightly castigate you in disagreement;(as is the norm on Nairaland) Since I feel it borders on wickedness to flog a thief who has been beaten by an angry mob. I disagree with your comments above, not because it is scriptural(y) inaccurate, but because it is scriptural(y) ambiguous to one who seeks Scriptural Discernment. f'course it is Perfect Wisdom to the recently-born again or babes in Christianity.

I take it you are a real (ordained) Pastor and in this role, you also Teach the Bible to a following as well. I wish to confirm. What is your approach on Teaching from the Bible? do you pick a verse outside of its subsuming Passage or Chapter and then expand on it by linking it to similar stand-alone verses from other passages/chapters/books? If yes, how do you ensure that your audience receives the benefit of Meaning and Purpose of a Passage or Chapter (in full) when you are working on a string of stand-alone verses that support the direction of your claim. Do you also realize that this is the same approach Satan adopted when he makes Bible quotes to Jesus. (of course Jesus having spent years studying the Bible was far discerning that Satan expected).

Applying scriptures out of ignorance is far less dangerous than misapplying it deliberately to manipulate reason (usually for selfish ends) This is the domain of False Prophets and Teachers (and f'course SATAN)

Let us look at your anchor verse Proverbs 8:20 in the context of the Meaning and Purpose of Proverbs 8 (i shall summarize) You can get the full NIV chapter here [url]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%208&version=NIV[/url]

Proverbs 8 urges us to seek discernment (knowledge and wisdom) far above worldly attractions.

10 Choose my instruction instead of silver, knowledge rather than choice gold, 11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies, and nothing you desire can compare with her.

Proverbs 8 proves that Wisdom is a virtue will keep your ways straight, give you good counsel and sound judgement.. make you a wealthy entrepreneur

14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine; I have insight, I have power. 15 By me kings reign and rulers issue decrees that are just; 16 by me princes govern, and nobles—all who rule on earth. 17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me. 18 With me are riches and honor, enduring wealth and prosperity. 19 My fruit is better than fine gold; what I yield surpasses choice silver. 20 I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice, 21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me and making their treasuries full.

From the above you can see how easy it is to twist scripture to your taste using stand-alone verses.. Pastors make very good chefs

Joagbaje:
I agree with you. Seeking Gods kingdom Is first . And nobody says other wise. God is not against prosperity . He s the blesser. Prosperity is not the same as worldliness.

We know God is not against prosperity. I don't understand what you meant by prosperity is not the same as worldliness, but i can tell you that teaching people to give for profit/worldly gains (the casino approach to giving) is very much the same as 'worldliness' this (prosperity) teaching is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Christ and the apostles. Christ and the apostles did not teach that we should give for worldly gains.

Enigma:
Thankfully, many others are wiser to think deeper and to move on to a more mature understanding of Christianity.

The sad bit is that lots more are being held down with even bigger chains

Zikkyy:

We know God is not against prosperity. I don't understand what you meant by prosperity is not the same as worldliness, but i can tell you that teaching people to give for profit/worldly gains (the casino approach to giving) is very much the same as 'worldliness' this (prosperity) teaching is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Christ and the apostles. Christ and the apostles did not teach that we should give for worldly gains.

Giving is only an aspect of prosperity and Jesus taught it.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Paul taught it too.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked:for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Philippians 4:17
But though I appreciate your gifts, what makes me happiest is the well- earned reward you will have because of your kindness.

So If you call biblical principle casino. Then you may have to write another bible

Every giving has a reward . If you must be a receiver , you start the giving .

@largerwhenindoubt

You have been long on Nairaland and you know it's against the rule to write out full name or ID of a poster . I request you re edit your post and address me by my Nairaland ID. Thanks

Joagbaje: @largerwhenindoubt

You have been long on Nairaland and you know it's against the rule to write out full name or ID of a poster . I request you re edit your post and address me by my Nairaland ID. Thanks

Edited.. no harm done.. but your artworks no bad.. any up for sale

ezme: Matthew 6.33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness;and all these things shall be added unto you

The preceding verses to this were emphasizing on God's ability to cater for us.

@Joagbaje/oiseworld
These are the words of Christ himself according to Matthew, stating in what order we should approach Christianity. I don't know if your prosperity teachers know better than Christ himself.

Oga like I have spoken before, it is clearly the will of God that we are in good health and prosper, even as our soul prospereth. 3 john 1:2

pls we need to separate business seminars from prosperity messages. In the process of learning prosperity the Bible way, it is made clear to you that u have to be born again,God fearing and strive towards righteousness.

...How else could it be said. that's the only way the Biblical prosperity works....and if am not wrong that is putting God first.... I repeat that "either Mohammed goes to the mountain or the mountain comes to Mohammed" there has to be a meeting point. that's the most important to God.

Before we all lose focus.. who are we GIVING to again?