striktlymi:

War and violence are not constant but they have a way of resurfacing when injustice takes precedence. To deny people of their rights is unjust and where injustice flourishes, peace will be elusive.

I said no one is denying anybody's right!! people will realize their mistakes and become atheists willingly, even you!!

Babadeen:



lol........wow, after shouting that people are making fallacies up and down, you come here with this ad hominem/unfounded assumption about me?


This same tool that doesnt have a clue about the state atheism that he is writing about

If you know what communism is, you would realise that no country has attained that state before. Anyways let me focus on Atheists who seem to know what they are talking about.

Babadeen:




Ignoring the truth

At least, it would be clear to other christians the lies that some apologists like you need to tell to bash atheism

For your info I am no apologist!

ooman:

I said no one is denying anybody's right!! people will realize their mistakes and become atheists willingly, even you!!

That's where you get it so wrong!

striktlymi:

That's where you get it so wrong!

No one, in this time and age, can say people cannot worship any God they want to worship. Atheism is not Islam, do not mistake them together!

ooman:

No one, in this time and age, can say people cannot worship any God they want to worship. Atheism is not Islam, do not mistake them together!

Precisely and that's the very reason why religion cannot go under for any reason.

striktlymi:


Precisely and that's the very reason why religion cannot go under for any reason.

People are getting modernized decade by decade. Its has been predicted that in the next 2000 years, hardly would you find anyone claiming any religion.

Religion will ultimately self eradicate and that is good news

striktlymi:

If you know what communism is, you would realise that no country has attained that state before. Anyways let me focus on Atheists who seem to know what they are talking about.

that makes no sense. Care to explain?

striktlymi:

For your info I am no apologist!

You are a poor apologist.

Dont live in denail.

What do you think you do when you are defending christianity on many atheist threads?

ooman:

People are getting modernized decade by decade. Its has been predicted that in the next 2000 years, hardly would you find anyone claiming any religion.

Religion will ultimately self eradicate and that is good news

Atheism is not a new concept. It has been right from the time when men became gods in ancient Greece and yet the world has not turn Atheist in total.

The projection given is in my opinion baseless. I really would like to know what informed this controversial projection. Note that Atheism is older than Christiantity.

striktlymi:


Atheism is not a new concept. It has been right from the time when men became gods in ancient Greece and yet the world has not turn Atheist in total.

The projection given is in my opinion baseless. I really would like to know what informed this controversial projection. Note that Atheism is older than Christiantity.

See this ignoramus? Lmao....atheism started from greece? Atheism started from the first people that lived. Nobody was born believing in gods.

There are even older accoints of atheism in Asia as well.


However, atheism is universal and everywhere- even some of your ancestors didnt believe in the gods of the people

striktlymi:


Atheism is not a new concept. It has been right from the time when men became gods in ancient Greece and yet the world has not turn Atheist in total.

The projection given is in my opinion baseless. I really would like to know what informed this controversial projection. Note that Atheism is older than Christiantity.

growth rate of atheism in recent times!

ooman:

growth rate of atheism in recent times!

That shouldn't be a yardstick given that things like this have been shown not to be consistent over time. Check out Christianity for example...from the time of the Apostles, there was a boom in its membership but this boom plummeted to the point of a fear of extinction later on before it peaked again.

As long as humans are concerned, projection for religion is not reliable. The variables are just too erratic to predict accurately.

Ok, you are not considering all factors here!

striktlymi:

That shouldn't be a yardstick given that things like this have been shown not to be consistent over time. Check out Christianity for example...from the time of the Apostles, there was a boom in its membership but this boom plummeted to the point of a fear of extinction later on before it peaked again.

As long as humans are concerned, projection for religion is not reliable. The variables are just too erratic to predict accurately.

Things have not been consistent over time, yes, true. But recent discovery in science, medicine and technology, which were not present before, are turning people's heart to atheism. With more discovery about the universe and the world around us, people are learning that intelligence is not involved in nature. Increase in knowledge means increase in atheism. The more educated people get, the more likely they become atheists. This and other factors,like Arab women rejecting Islam and embracing atheism because it offers FREEDOM, is why atheism will continue to grow at the detriment of religion.

The predictions can not accurate, true, but you can be certain that 2000 years to now, Religion is done and off our planet, the Gods with it. I will see to it that we live up to that period.

Tell me, if that research was successful, would you prolong your life time? wouldnt that be against your faith?

ooman: Ok, you are not considering all factors here!

Things have not been consistent over time, yes, true. But recent discovery in science, medicine and technology, which were not present before, are turning people's heart to atheism. With more discovery about the universe and the world around us, people are learning that intelligence is not involved in nature. Increase in knowledge means increase in atheism. The more educated people get, the more likely they become atheists. This and other factors,like Arab women rejecting Islam and embracing atheism because it offers FREEDOM, is why atheism will continue to grow at the detriment of religion.

Inventions, scientific breakthroughs, discoveries are not new to the Earth. They have been from age to age. I guess you still believe that you are a mistake of nature...anyways that's your problem.

ooman:
The predictions can not accurate, true, but you can be certain that 2000 years to now, Religion is done and off our planet, the Gods with it.

That is your dream and will forever remain just a dream.

ooman:
I will see to it that we live up to that period.

We will see to it!

ooman:
Tell me, if that research was successful, would you prolong your life time? wouldnt that be against your faith?

Every field of study has its ethics. Anyone who goes against these ethics would be shown the door. Using medicine within the bounds of ethics to proloing life can be acceptable in some cases.

striktlymi:

Inventions, scientific breakthroughs, discoveries are not new to the Earth. They have been from age to age.

Recent discoveries in genetics and cosmology are quite new to Earth, are you denying that? What we know now, we didnt know in some 200 years past, what we will know in some 200 years to come, we do not know now. There are NEW discoveries at this time, though DISCOVERY it self is not new to earth, but we are making EVEN MORE DISCOVERIES OF THINGS THAT ARE NEW TO EARTH. that is the difference and why it will boost atheism

striktlymi: I guess you still believe that you are a mistake of nature...anyways that's your problem.

I wouldnt put it that way, i would say that our ancestor was a result of reactions based on possibilities, reactions which does not always produce favorable result, but which at one point produced a perfect result, which became us. I would say that we are the lucky ones, born in the species of the highest intelligence. Though we werent planned for, we are really special. I would say that we are the special ones, not the created, purposeful and planned ones, yet not the mistaken ones, but the lucky ones.

striktlymi: That is your dream and will forever remain just a dream.

dont get all emotional on me now. The time will come and we will know dreams from reality. We will separate the wheat from the tare.

striktlymi: We will see to it!

I am seeing to that, theif!

striktlymi: Every field of study has its ethics. Anyone who goes against these ethics would be shown the door. Using medicine within the bounds of ethics to proloing life can be acceptable in some cases.

hmmm, so you would really spend more time on earth than with your God in Paradise.
You know what i think, i think that religion is an excuse for our limitations.

When science wakes up the dead, then you will see how everyone, including yourself will easily drop your faith and become non-theists, deists even if not atheists immediately. God rules now because man still has major problems that need solving, which some people unbelievable think that a non-existent being can solve by prayer.

ooman:

Recent discoveries in genetics and cosmology are quite new to Earth, are you denying that? What we know now, we didnt know in some 200 years past, what we will know in some 200 years to come, we do not know now. There are NEW discoveries at this time, though DISCOVERY it self is not new to earth, but we are making EVEN MORE DISCOVERIES OF THINGS THAT ARE NEW TO EARTH. that is the difference and why it will boost atheism

I never talked about recent breakthroughs in science and technology. Are you denying that 'breakthroughs' have been from age to age?? There will always be scientific and technological breakthroughs, even breakthroughs in other areas like Economics and the humanities. Like you pointed out, this is not a new phenomenon to man...Atheism and Theism have been there while all these breakthroughs have taken place and this will always be the case.

ooman:
I wouldnt put it that way, i would say that our ancestor was a result of reactions based on possibilities, reactions which does not always produce favorable result, but which at one point produced a perfect result, which became us. I would say that we are the lucky ones, born in the species of the highest intelligence. Though we werent planned for, we are really special. I would say that we are the special ones, not the created, purposeful and planned ones, yet not the mistaken ones, but the lucky ones.

The above is same as saying man is a mistake of nature!

ooman:
dont get all emotional on me now. The time will come and we will know dreams from reality. We will separate the wheat from the tare.

Emotional cause I said you are in the dream state??...oh please!!! You only have faith that religion will seize to exist...your faith does not have any shred of empirical evidence. So like I said before, you are free to continue dreaming!

ooman:
I am seeing to that, theif!

ooman:
hmmm, so you would really spend more time on earth than with your God in Paradise. You know what i think, i think that religion is an excuse for our limitations.

Your opinion! Your right!!

ooman:
When science wakes up the dead, then you will see how everyone, including yourself will easily drop your faith and become non-theists, deists even if not atheists immediately. God rules now because man still has major problems that need solving, which some people unbelievable think that a non-existent being can solve by prayer.

As far as I am concerned, deism is a logical view point than Atheism.

striktlymi:

I never talked about recent breakthroughs in science and technology.

Well, its always been about "recent" and "new" discoveries. When they suggest otherwise to the old view that people have held for a long time, those who are wise enough to follow the evidences where ever it leads becomes atheists.
Recent breakthroughs suggest there is no God, recent breakthroughs suggest that apparent designs are no design at all but repetitive patterns, recent breakthroughs suggest that nature can self coordinate, therefore self originate. Recent view of nature, that is, evolution has helped scientists approach diseases better. We can now deal with new strains of bacteria and virus because we understand that they always evolve rather than get "created from scratch, from nothing". Recent breakthroughs supported Atheism and so recent and even more new and recent breakthroughs will always tell people more about their surroundings, and with always occurring breakthroughs, people will learn more and realize that there is no God, hence become atheists. That is how breakthroughs will lead to the world becoming atheists willingly.

striktlymi: Are you denying that 'breakthroughs' have been from age to age??

Who can deny that breakthroughs have always occurred, past breakthrough led to ours in the first place! what even suggested to you that i could be denying that "breakthroughs have been from age to age??

striktlymi: There will always be scientific and technological breakthroughs, even breakthroughs in other areas like Economics and the humanities. Like you pointed out, this is not a new phenomenon to man...Atheism and Theism have been there while all these breakthroughs have taken place and this will always be the case.

There has always been scientific and technological breakthroughs for real, but in recent time, there has been an explosion of breakthroughs. The 20th century was considered the golden age of genetics, what we didnt know in decades before then were known. Such recent and new discoveries led to most scientists becoming atheists, including me.

You have to understand me: New areas of knowledge are now evolving, recent additions to our knowledge is what makes more scientists atheists and since we havent even learnt 50% about nature, more new knowledge, as they come, will make people understand that there is no God, that is how breakthroughs will make people atheists.

striktlymi: The above is same as saying man is a mistake of nature!

only if you want to want to believe that man is a mistake of nature. we are results of mutations - mistakes, yes, but we are lucky to be the result of a cumulative mistake that led to a better functioning protein system - us, what if we were lions, would you know how to use make a computer then?

striktlymi: Emotional cause I said you are in the dream state??...oh please!!! You only have faith that religion will seize to exist...your faith does not have any shred of empirical evidence. So like I said before, you are free to continue dreaming!

Why do you love to force "faith" on me. You tell me always that i have faith on this, faith on that! AM ALLERGIC TO BULLSHIT!! do i have to repeat that?

Now, as i have explained above, that recent explosion of scientific breakthrough is concomitant with recent explosion of atheism - because scientific breakthrough will always continue, till we can space-travel, numbers of atheists is also on the rise

striktlymi:

striktlymi: Your opinion! Your right!!

My opinion! The truth!!, why dont you talk about it if you dont feel like its true, you just prevaricated by saying the above!

striktlymi: As far as I am concerned, deism is a logical view point than Atheism.

hmmmm, so, if science truly wakes up the dead, you would "jilt" your God and become a deist, until science proves that there is really no God, then you will become an atheist. I like your style, "staying under the umbrella of safety", but you know what? that is cowardly, cowardice, pusillanimous and every other word that explains behavior of people who cant stand firm in a particular situation.

I have been a christian, but i will now always be an atheist, until the evidence suggest otherwise - that is, until i can observe God.

If the world i observe is only a delusion of network of cells, how much more is the God i can only imagine or think about - why dont you think about that.

and pls, explain why you implied atheism is not logical - you implied this when you said

striktlymi: deism is a logical view point than Atheism.

ehn?

striktlymi:

How many Atheists or religious people do you know?

a perambulating question that when answered would only lead you further into the deep evil forest of religion

lagerwhenindoubt:

a perambulating question that when answered would only lead you further into the deep evil forest of religion

Empty!!!

lagerwhenindoubt:

a perambulating question that when answered would only lead you further into the deep evil forest of religion

What is "EVIL" and who defines it?

dekung:
so what do you mean. Was there anytime when Russian government advocated for atheism?

the number of shockingly ignorant atheists is alarming.

davidylan:

the number of shockingly ignorant atheists is alarming.

as is the number of ignorant Christians, we do have a huge tasks on our hands

davidylan:

the number of shockingly ignorant atheists is alarming.

you again, are you always a coward?

davidylan:

the number of shockingly ignorant atheists is alarming.

Seconded.

Ihedinobi:

Seconded.

Logicboy03:

Don't pop a vessel, dude

Ihedinobi:

Seconded.

do you even know what you seconded?

Good evening ooman,

ooman:

Well, its always been about "recent" and "new" discoveries. When they suggest otherwise to the old view that people have held for a long time, those who are wise enough to follow the evidences where ever it leads becomes atheists.

C'mon man...if one follows the evidence, the logical end point is Atheism??...I don't think so! The empirical evidence at the disposal of man for now points to deism.

The fact that there must be a 'first cause' who set this whole 'fiasco' in motion is irrefutable...the logical point of dispute would be who, what, where, when and how do we perceive this 'first cause'...do we accept the Christian view point?...do we consider the argument of Islam?...do we look back into our pagan roots or do we simply see 'him' as this 'unexplained' energy 'who' lacks consciousness??

It is very clear that a body will continue to assume a state of rest until some external force acts on it...the ball was set rolling by something or someone...you might choose to call that something Energy but I choose to call that someone God.

So my dear ooman, if one follows the evidence science has to offer, Atheism will not be the logical conclusion.

ooman:

Recent breakthroughs suggest there is no God, recent breakthroughs suggest that apparent designs are no design at all but repetitive patterns, recent breakthroughs suggest that nature can self coordinate, therefore self originate.

The breakthroughs in science do not suggest that there is no God...suggestions science makes about things which can self originate gives credence to a self existing God and not the contrary.

ooman:
Recent view of nature, that is, evolution has helped scientists approach diseases better. We can now deal with new strains of bacteria and virus because we understand that they always evolve

I am in agreement with the above! However, evolution does not provide all the answers and I do not accept some of the personal conclusions some scientists like yourself are trying to draw from evolution without proper empirical evidence.

ooman:
rather than get "created from scratch, from nothing".

Evolution does not tell us how everything began...evolution does not undermine creation. As far as I am concerned, evolution and creation goes hand in hand. It all started from creation and continued through evolution. A less than accurate comparison would be how the making of vehicles have 'evolved' over time. It had a starting point which can be likened to the point of 'creation' and improvements on the first design continued over time, this can be likened to 'evolution'.

ooman:
Recent breakthroughs supported Atheism

Nope! It tend to support deists instead. Recent breakthroughs do not support the refusal of a belief in God.

ooman:
and so recent and even more new and recent breakthroughs will always tell people more about their surroundings, and with always occurring breakthroughs, people will learn more and realize that there is no God, hence become atheists. That is how breakthroughs will lead to the world becoming atheists willingly.

Understanding our environment will bring people still to God. One can't really be open to the marvels revealed through the study of God's creation and not believe that there is this unseen hand in them.

ooman:
Who can deny that breakthroughs have always occurred, past breakthrough led to ours in the first place! what even suggested to you that i could be denying that "breakthroughs have been from age to age??

Okay, cool since you do not deny it. So ooman this is a pointer that religion and Atheism will always exist side by side irrespective of the breakthroughs in science.

ooman:
There has always been scientific and technological breakthroughs for real, but in recent time, there has been an explosion of breakthroughs. The 20th century was considered the golden age of genetics, what we didnt know in decades before then were known. Such recent and new discoveries led to most scientists becoming atheists, including me.

Most scientists?? Don't make me ask you how many you know o!

I have already explained that there have been no time where the religious population or Atheistic population has been constant or follow a particular trend. The variables are erratic as I mentioned earlier...you see Theists becoming Atheists and Atheists becoming Theists...this will always be the trend.

ooman:
You have to understand me: New areas of knowledge are now evolving, recent additions to our knowledge is what makes more scientists atheists and since we havent even learnt 50% about nature, more new knowledge, as they come, will make people understand that there is no God, that is how breakthroughs will make people atheists.

People become Atheists or Theists for different reasons; not just because of the breakthroughs in science.

ooman:
only if you want to want to believe that man is a mistake of nature. we are results of mutations - mistakes, yes, but we are lucky to be the result of a cumulative mistake that led to a better functioning protein system - us, what if we were lions, would you know how to use make a computer then?

You are funny! Are you saying that the human brain was a result of luck and mistake??...I don't think so!

ooman:
Why do you love to force "faith" on me. You tell me always that i have faith on this, faith on that! AM ALLERGIC TO BULLSHIT!! do i have to repeat that?

Just as I am allergic to illogical arguments! To accept something without evidence is same as having faith. You believe the world will become Atheist some day when there is no evidence to support your view...and please don't tell me about the increase in Atheism cause Christianity increased too but the Earth never became Christian at any point in time. People still expressed diverse beliefs.

ooman:
Now, as i have explained above, that recent explosion of scientific breakthrough is concomitant with recent explosion of atheism - because scientific breakthrough will always continue, till we can space-travel, numbers of atheists is also on the rise

See above!

ooman:
My opinion! The truth!!, why dont you talk about it if you dont feel like its true, you just prevaricated by saying the above!

I try to avoid personal opinions that lack relevance like a plague!

ooman:
hmmmm, so, if science truly wakes up the dead, you would "jilt" your God and become a deist, until science proves that there is really no God, then you will become an atheist. I like your style, "staying under the umbrella of safety", but you know what? that is cowardly, cowardice, pusillanimous and every other word that explains behavior of people who cant stand firm in a particular situation.

I know for a fact that science can never disprove God...my belief in God goes beyond what so many Christians talk about...I do not believe in God because someone wants me to or because I was indoctrinated. God exist...deism is not same as refusing to believe in God. I can't be an Atheist for very personal reasons and since personal revelations do not prove anything...I will leave it at that.

ooman:
I have been a christian, but i will now always be an atheist, until the evidence suggest otherwise - that is, until i can observe God.

Careful what you wish for...you just might get it!

ooman:

If the world i observe is only a delusion of network of cells, how much more is the God i can only imagine or think about - why dont you think about that.

I have thought about all you have said. I understand the Atheists view but it does not change my stance on the matter.

ooman:
and pls, explain why you implied atheism is not logical - you implied this when you said

Deists do not accept the Christian notion of God but they do not deny the fact that reason and observation are sufficient to show that God exists unlike the Atheists who refuse to accept the "notion" of God until some empirical evidence directly tied to God can be substantiated.

Ooman, you and your claims sef.......

Calm down with the science man.

Logicboy03: Ooman, you and your claims sef.......

Calm down with the science man.

ooman, when even your own fellow hare-brained conspiracy theorists have a hard time believing you... its time to take a pause.

My guess is that even logicboy does not believe half the "science" ooman spews out here... and that is saying A LOT.

lagerwhenindoubt:
as is the number of ignorant Christians, we do have a huge tasks on our hands

bro perhaps you should focus on educating your members. It is quite a shame when it takes a christian to remind you that russia practiced state-sanctioned atheism.