davidylan:

ooman, when even your own fellow hare-brained conspiracy theorists have a hard time believing you... its time to take a pause.

My guess is that even logicboy does not believe half the "science" ooman spews out here... and that is saying A LOT.

You are one to talk about science with your denial of evolution.

ooman:

do you even know what you seconded?

Unlike you with your very questionable science and all, I do.

after all the arguments and counter arguments, i still ask this simple question. how has your belief in the existence of God or non-existence of God made you a better person who is loving and useful to his fellow man?

Ok now, Striky, you and your kind have shown how oblivious you are to trends and patterns of events around you. This reply will therefore be much, as i will quote from multiple sources, take your time to read then ask your questions later.

striktlymi: Good evening ooman,
C'mon man...if one follows the evidence, the logical end point is Atheism??...I don't think so! The empirical evidence at the disposal of man for now points to deism.

deism, theism - what is the difference? if there is really no difference - then most scientist would be theists, since that offers more reward, but the reverse is the case. why are more than 90% of the world's scientists atheists? (Africa not included of course - African science is piffle). Superficially, nature seemed designed, which is why myopic people like yourself think the way you do, deep search into nature shows no intelligence both in its origin and coordination. Nature is totally self sufficient. That is another topic, i will stop there, but will continue on request.

You and your folks really have so little knowledge about science and evolution

striktlymi: The fact that there must be a 'first cause' who set this whole 'fiasco' in motion is irrefutable...the logical point of dispute would be who, what, where, when and how do we perceive this 'first cause'...do we accept the Christian view point?...do we consider the argument of Islam?...do we look back into our pagan roots or do we simply see 'him' as this 'unexplained' energy 'who' lacks consciousness??

You do not want to discuss the first cause right now. Am certain you will certainly back down at the long run. I posted a formula for your folks and they didnt even understand a bit about it, they all barked back to me to explain, but how can i explain what they cannot understand in the first place. That surely belongs to the realm of physics, as Dawkins already said

Richard Dawkins: The details of the early phase of the universe belong to the realm of physics, whereas I am a biologist, more concerned with the later phases of the evolution of
complexity. For me, the important point is that, even if the physicist needs to
postulate an irreducible minimum that had to be present in the beginning, in order
for the universe to get started, that irreducible minimum is certainly extremely
simple. By definition, explanations that build on simple premises are more
plausible and more satisfying than explanations that have to postulate complex
and statistically improbable beginnings. And you can't get much more complex
than an Almighty God!.

note the bold - the first cause has to be simple indeed, but a complex omniscient God isnt simple at all! This is why the first cause cannot be a question of 'who', a state of existence at that extreme is impossible, simply put "total impossibility", no matter how powerful a God can be, there are just limits for all life forms in nature. the question of the first cause is a matter of 'what'.

striktlymi: do we simply see 'him' as this 'unexplained' energy 'who' lacks consciousness??

like i said, the question of first cause is a matter of 'what'. In fact, in quantum physics sense - A 'SPIRIT' STATE, THE STATE OF EXISTENCE OF GOD CANNOT EXIST, THEREFORE GOD CANNOT EXIST - A COMPLETELY ISOLATED UNIVERSE CANNOT BE OBSERVED.

Now, to tell you a little about what quantum physics have been able dig up about this first cause - Energy is eternal, from which everything came and made up and the state which all things return to. ENERGY CANNOT HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS. Consciousness to observe can only come when there is right connection of specific cells. Note the bold - because in a sense, non living molecules are also 'aware' of their environment, this is why iron rust, because it becomes 'aware' and reacts with the oxygen in its environment. Now, this state of awareness is not consciousness, there is no observation in it, just possibilities of reactions. Elements become aware of other elements in their surrounding and so react and form compounds. All so they could achieve a minimum energy state - And this is the only thing observable by us in nature, there are no alternatives, no room for any sincere scientist to consider the existence of a God.

Space and Energy interactions caused the gathering of energy in the form of radiation into a point called cosmic egg, this point became hot and hotter as more radiation accrued, much in the same way as thermionic emission or photoelectric effect, a perfect example would be the stars, our sun for example became hotter and hotter as more hydrogen gas accrued at the point where our sun now stand, rotating in its orbit around its galaxy - the milky way. One day, it will explode in a supernova, such explosion - regarded as the Big B.ang is our first cause. It caused our universe and everything in it. It all oocured in Planck's time - a very short time incomprehensible to man, but measurable.

I will stop here, i have to make sure you are following!

striktlymi: It is very clear that a body will continue to assume a state of rest until some external force acts on it...the ball was set rolling by something or someone...you might choose to call that something Energy but I choose to call that someone God.

Did you just attempt to use Mechanics to explain the existence of the universe? Do you not know that the static 'body' itself is composed of electrons moving at the speed of light? Were you not taught that particles of solid also move - vibrate at a fixed point for lack of space? Christ, did you really use Mechanics to explain the existence of the universe? You have shown that what you are discussing is so out of your ken! Quantum Physics is still trying to fully grasp the evolution of our universe and the possibility of multiple universes and you try to bring in Mechanics? Do you even know where Mechanics apply and its limitations? What you wrote above is total gibberish, it does not apply to the discussion of the first cause. Normally, i should leave you to your ignorance now, but i understand you are not a science person.

You quoted Newton's law - That law itself refers to solids. Did you not learn that molecules of gases are ever in motion and so does not need any external force to act on them? How much more is a radiation. You have irritated me by using mechanics to explain a quantum state and so i will stop here on that!!

The first cause needed no 'one'. It is perfectly self sufficient, its forever in motion. Do you even understand the concept of light? Does it terminate without getting absorbed by a body? If not, what happens to a photon when released? Answer this questions, perhaps you would prove you really know enough about the universe to debate the first cause with me!!

striktlymi: So my dear ooman, if one follows the evidence science has to offer, Atheism will not be the logical conclusion.

Using Mechanics to explain a quantum state, is that the evidence you are following? Oh...pls, you lack the knowledge about that. If one really follows the evidence, then there is no chance that a person will still keep imaginary friends. One's believe in any God would immediately crash.

striktlymi: The breakthroughs in science do not suggest that there is no God...suggestions science makes about things which can self originate gives credence to a self existing God and not the contrary.

A body, as powerful, as omniscient, as complex, byzantine like God cannot self-originate, that is just against all possibilities. Did you even think before writing the above at all?? ?? ??.

It has to come from things simple indeed. Note that science states that a very very simple form of radiation - energy - started it all! Therefore, nature both self-originate and self-coordinate!!

striktlymi: I am in agreement with the above! However, evolution does not provide all the answers and I do not accept some of the personal conclusions some scientists like yourself are trying to draw from evolution without proper empirical evidence.

Lack of proper understanding of Quantum Physics, Genetics, Nuclear Chemistry/Physics and Particle Physics made you wrote the above. You are forgiven!!

striktlymi: Evolution does not tell us how everything began...evolution does not undermine creation.

You havent really learned about evolution. With your knowledge displayed so far, i figure your knowledge about evolution is nothing but that of a SS2 student's.

striktlymi: As far as I am concerned, evolution and creation goes hand in hand.

When did myth equals reality? Evolution and creation never agree.!! Science always refute God.

striktlymi: It all started from creation and continued through evolution.

I once thought like that. Proper understanding of nature though opened my eyes fully.

You know the funniest thing about thinking the way you just did? It is that thinking that "It all started from creation and continued through evolution" can be applied to the Yoruba, Greek, Roman etc concept of creation and merged accurately with evolution where needed as you would merge the creation story according to the bible. After the merger, the Yoruba, Greek concept of creation also made perfect sense, but does that mean it is true? you tell me!!

striktlymi: A less than accurate comparison would be how the making of vehicles have 'evolved' over time. It had a starting point which can be likened to the point of 'creation' and improvements on the first design continued over time, this can be likened to 'evolution'.

Now, that is another great BLUNDER. Movement of man started with horses, then to engines and continued to be improved BY MAN. THERE IS ALWAYS AN INTELLIGENCE INVOLVED, FROM START UP TO THIS PRESENT TIME. A CAR CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE CHANGE BY ITSELF. Nature on the other hand changes in different environments, causing change in behavior and physiology of living systems, producing new species. EVOLUTION AND CREATION CAN NEVER BE MERGED.

striktlymi: Nope! It tend to support deists instead. Recent breakthroughs do not support the refusal of a belief in God.

striktlymi: Understanding our environment will bring people still to God. One can't really be open to the marvels revealed through the study of God's creation and not believe that there is this unseen hand in them.

I believe i have answered the above by exposing your lack of knowledge of quantum physics when you tried to use Mechanics to explain the universe

striktlymi: Most scientists?? Don't make me ask you how many you know o!

PLS DO. 93% OF SCIENTISTS AT THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCE IN AMERICA ARE ATHEISTS!!! DO YOU EVEN KNOW THAT?

striktlymi: Okay, cool since you do not deny it. So ooman this is a pointer that religion and Atheism will always exist side by side irrespective of the breakthroughs in science.

striktlymi: I have already explained that there have been no time where the religious population or Atheistic population has been constant or follow a particular trend. The variables are erratic as I mentioned earlier...you see Theists becoming Atheists and Atheists becoming Theists...this will always be the trend.

striktlymi: People become Atheists or Theists for different reasons; not just because of the breakthroughs in science.

striktlymi: Just as I am allergic to illogical arguments! To accept something without evidence is same as having faith. You believe the world will become Atheist some day when there is no evidence to support your view...and please don't tell me about the increase in Atheism cause Christianity increased too but the Earth never became Christian at any point in time. People still expressed diverse beliefs.

read this - THE SOURCE

- Peter Berger:
Religion had a stranglehold on humanity until the 20th century, when it suddenly lost its grip on nearly a billion people in the course of a single century (non-believers skyrocketed from 3.2 million in 1900 to 918 million in 2000, or 0.2% of world population in 1900 to 15.3% in 2000).1 What happened, so suddenly? What causes atheism?

[size=15pt]A fourth theory is that it’s simply a matter of education. Denmark was the first country to provide free, compulsory elementary-school education, in 1814, and the rest of Scandinavia soon followed. Polls have shown a strong correlation between higher education and religious skepticism.
[/size]

another source

Question: [size=15pt]It seems, looking back through history, that there are far far many more atheists in the world today than ever before.[/size] So my question is why do you think this is? Is there something in the water or are we consuming something in our foods maybe that is hindering our ability to reason logically? Can intelligent people really take a good look at the beauty and wonder of all of creation and think that there is not a God that master minded it all?

ANSWER

[size=15pt]I use the United States as an example, but I know similar trends can be found throughout the world. In the U.S., 70 or more percent of our college professors are liberal, atheistic, anti-religion, etc. [/size]

Still another SOURCE

Demographics of atheism: [size=15pt]While there are more atheists than ever before as global population continually increases.[/size]

from same source

Demographics of atheism: , the atheist percentage of the total population seem to be declining. This may be because birth rates in religious societies are much higher. This is similar to a 2002 survey by Adherents.com, which estimates the proportion of the world's people who are "secular, non-religious, agnostics and atheists" at about 14%. A 2004 survey by the BBC in 10 countries showed the proportion of the population "who don't believe in God" varying between [size=15pt]0% (Nigeria)[/size] and 39% (UK), with an average close to 17% in the countries surveyed.

The above being because of inconsistencies in the survey. Not all Nigerians are apparently interviewed. This is why Nigeria was rated as having zero atheist. Such mistakes are done for so many other countries, hence the reason why "the atheist percentage of the total population seem to be declining".

striktlymi: You are funny! Are you saying that the human brain was a result of luck and mistake??...I don't think so!

No, but your own ignorance is alarming!! The human brain is a result of 3200 millions years of luck and mistakes that proceeds according to possibility of reactions. I couldn't expect more from such an uncontrolled process as evolution!

striktlymi: I try to avoid personal opinions that lack relevance like a plague!

Lie - you avoided it and many of its kind because its true and because you are too ashamed and lack words to express your defeat. I still hold that religion is an excuse for man's limitations!!

striktlymi: I know for a fact that science can never disprove God

One does not even need to be a scientist to be smart enough to know that there is no God. As you yourself said, not all atheists embrace atheism because of science. In fact, some atheists do not care about evolution, they just dont find the concept of God reasonable to a reasoning mind!!

striktlymi: ...my belief in God goes beyond what so many Christians talk about...I do not believe in God because someone wants me to or because I was indoctrinated. God exist...deism is not same as refusing to believe in God. I can't be an Atheist for very personal reasons and since personal revelations do not prove anything...I will leave it at that.

Well, your delusions, your problems. If you think that dreams and trance means something really great, then you are on your own. But you really need to learn about the functioning of billions of cell networks in your brain, perhaps then, you might understand process like precognition that seem to be present in some people.

striktlymi: Careful what you wish for...you just might get it!

I have always wished for this since i became an atheist .... never happened. A pastor even prayed for me and told me that in the night, God would reveal himself to me.....all was lie. If God exist, then i should be able to palpably grasp him to say the least!!

striktlymi: I have thought about all you have said. I understand the Atheists view but it does not change my stance on the matter.

You have the wrong view of science. What a great blunder!!!

striktlymi: Deists do not accept the Christian notion of God but they do not deny the fact that reason and observation are sufficient to show that God exists unlike the Atheists who refuse to accept the "notion" of God until some empirical evidence directly tied to God can be substantiated.

I believe i have covered this

davidylan:

ooman, when even your own fellow hare-brained conspiracy theorists have a hard time believing you... its time to take a pause.

My guess is that even logicboy does not believe half the "science" ooman spews out here... and that is saying A LOT.

not many, not even you understand nature as i do. hence, the lack of understanding. Isnt that obvious?

Ihedinobi:

Unlike you with your very questionable science and all, I do.

you mean the science you failed to understand?

benodic:
after all the arguments and counter arguments, i still ask this simple question. how has your belief in the existence of God or non-existence of God made you a better person who is loving and useful to his fellow man?

Your lack of belief changes everything for you, makes you a better person, makes you approach problems proactively, a method Africa desperately need!

Logicboy03: Ooman, you and your claims sef.......

Calm down with the science man.

who is the science man? and what part of my claims do you not understand?

davidylan:

bro perhaps you should focus on educating your members. It is quite a shame when it takes a christian to remind you that russia practiced state-sanctioned atheism.

are you deliberately forgetting the state sanctioned Christianity your popes practiced in time past?

Don't come here and glorify atheism because you just become infatuated by one Atheist.After living with her the no of years you lived with your former wife,you can come back and tell us your story.After all your so called Religious dishonest former wife must have once being the center of your universe

Ferdinandu: Don't come here and glorify atheism because you just become infatuated by one Atheist.After living with her the no of years you lived with your former wife,you can come back and tell us your story.After all your so called Religious dishonest former wife must have once being the center of your universe

I am not the man, dumdazz, dont cry on me.

Maybe when you tend to see spirits, u'll change your views. When u tend to see mystical powers that are being displayed by people who use dark magic, ritual killings for the sake of money and other stuff science or quantum physics can never explain, just maybe then u'll change ur atheist belief and u'll believe that a God must exist.
I'll like you to visit ijebu one of these days, and see mysterious powers @ work..... Then tell science to explain d things u see.
THERE IS A GOD