GL,
If you read my post properly,you would have understood my question.I said,Do you believe in God?Do you feel him?Forget everything the bible tells you for a split second and ask yourself if you feel God really exists within you and communicates with you.
That is what i asked.

Afeni and co.
I think you guys should try witnessing a ritual.
I mean the human sacrifice kind.
Then tell me if you prefer your ancestral religion or the imported ones,
You guys are obviously in london.

Less words to you,

Not all traditionaly religions practiced human sacrifices. Most of them don't. That is the crap the colonialist are telling you morons so you won't turn your back on their precious foreign gods. I feel sorry for you Christians and Muslims.

Spikedcylinder, i read ur post. I said I believe in God, and YES, i feel His presence. I've never heard Him speak to me with my ears, though I believe He speaks to me thru the bible.

GL, you do not feel anything. You are brainwashed sorry, sorry person. People like you must be saved from yourself. If I was to guess, your parents probly fed you all this crap and you bought it. Its a pitty that some people find it hard to think for themselves.

Afeni

I really must commend your argumentative skills, they seem quite sharp even though they will be better without bitter words. Being Agnostic means you do not know for sure if God exists. But at least, you are not in denial of his existence-just unsure right? The way you see Islam and Christianity believe me, I have tried to view them like that in the past. But, I must probably have failed to perpetuate the belief that just because they came to us through "forced means" they mat afterall have been the imagination of Europeans and Arabs. It may even interest you to know that they have common origins. And I honestly do not believe christians worship none other thatn God. But I certainly can tell you Muslims worship God- The one responsible for ordering and reodering creation, and in maintaining all things in balance.

I have a vivid memory of some part of my childhood, and I know that I had heard God talking to me in my heart. Don't ask me abbout his voice, because I heard just my own voice, but I did not know a lot of things then, and I seem to remember Him say I should make all the right choices in y life. At that time, I did not understand. But now, with the knowledge I possess, I think I have an understanding of what He meant-I should listen to my conscience. If we all could remember some of the things we thought about as babies, when it seemed to everyone we were ranting nonsense, we would find clues to some questions about the mystery of creation.

I however want to examine your suggestion objectively. We should as Nigerians and may be Africans adopt the religion of our fore-fathers. This is not a totally stupid Idea, but let's understand the merits for our going back to those religions. Firstly, you must know that not everybody was allowed to study these religions, consequently they thrived on ignorance as opposed to what obtains with these imported religions where every one can read and interprete subjectively the practice of these religions. And you must know that the African religions believed too much in instant justice, and in many cases in the superiority of one god over another. Thus reverting to these would be like reverting to anarchy and chaos as different adherents will in their quest to affirm superiority, unleash terror against each other. I dare say, this would eclipse the current fiasco between the Major religions in the world, and would consequently not serve our developmental purposes. Besides, why would I as a muslim, have direct contact and relationship with God, jettison this for a religion that will enable me get to God by pleasing numerous demi-gods?

And for those that establish a relationship between states that practice indigenous religions with development, let me point out to you that today, India is expanding scientifically and economically. And yes they have their native religion Hinduism, but this has in no way contributed to their development, otherwise why would a religion that deifies the cow( makes a cow one of their gods), see this same cow being slaughtered everyday, and still believe in that cow as a god? That speaks volumes of their intelligence if we were to judge them by their religion right? However, I know the Indians are intelligent not for the choice of their religion, but their camaraderie, and perfect implementation of a doctrine known as the spider web doctrine. This states that any revenue that comes into an Indian community, never leaves it. Thus they spend less money on buying cars from the Japanese or Europeans. The do not buy fashionable clothes from the west because they take pride in theirs. They go about in rickshaws that is their invention. And if you observe them closely, you would find that they have commmunity school for their kids-they don't attend expensive white schools for group membership. And if you buy anything from an Indian, the money will be circulated within their circles. If Nigerians, and Africans were to adopt a system similar to that, then we would start leaving poverty.

It is not a matter of the choice of religon, but more a cultural matter.

GL,i said forget the bible for a split second(if you possibly can).You do not know where the bible originated from.You only think you know because of what you´ve been made to believe.If indeed someone tried to convince you that the bible was a pile of crap,i believe you should be able to speak up for your beliefs based on what God told you,not through the bible because that shit is shit.

One of the problems we have in naija is that of organised religion. Historically, Organised religion has ulterior motives-slavery, colonization, expantionism, Our people, like all africans are a very spritual lot and we have been the fodder for the latter day 'prophets' for many years, Look at the countries we look up to -US, UK, Religion takes a distance place in the national psyche,

People listen once gain to the lyrics of Fela's Shuffering & Shmiling

BigT:

Historically, Organised religion has ulterior motives-slavery, colonization, expantionism, Our people, like all africans are a very spritual lot and we have been the fodder for the latter day 'prophets' for many years, Look at the countries we look up to -US, UK, Religion takes a distance place in the national psyche,

I don't know what US or UK you're talking about. You look at them closely and ask if religion didn't play a major role in the last presidential elections in the US? And after colonialism ended in Nigeria, what have we as a people done ourselves? What religious affiliations are/were responsible for the greed of politicians who called for a third term?

These newly introduced Gods have corrupted our politicians.

And whats most sad is that the people are out making excuses instead of destroying the Gods.

These newly introduced Gods have corrupted our politicians.

And whats most sad is that the people are out making excuses instead of destroying the Gods.

spikedcylinder:

GL,i said forget the bible for a split second(if you possibly can).You do not know where the bible originated from.You only think you know because of what you´ve been made to believe.If indeed someone tried to convince you that the bible was a pile of crap,i believe you should be able to speak up for your beliefs based on what God told you,not through the bible because that rubbish is rubbish.

lol!

go girl!

as I always say, with religion, dont ever say you 'KNOW'. religion is nothing more than food for the spirit, and has no basis in real life. Seperate religion and knowledge. what we know and what we believe are different. if you try to convince me of something cos it was 'written' in a 2000 year old book of dubious origin all I will do is laugh at you!

on topic: lets stick with our imported religions. why? cos religion is like an elitist club. and xtianity and islam are the biggest in the world. if u dont belong to one or the other you are in deep shyte, dooood, no-one will wanna hang with you!

Abi o!DMZ!

Afeni,

Live and let live! How is it affecting you life personally?

Religion affects all of us. What about these Gods corrupting the minds of our once decent people do you fail to understand?

@ Afeni, while I am not in anyway a religous person, the way you beat about how 'God is corrupting the minds of people' leaves less to imagination, why not practice your 'agnos, wetincall and leave the 'foolish' Christians and muslims alone? I am sure you will be one of the first to cry foul when there is any case of muslims trying to impose their crap sharia on us, I see you trying so hard to shove the whole 'do away with God' down the throat of everyone that believes in God, where is your tolerance, man? Where is lies your tolerance

I personally do not believe the world will be a better place if we take 'God' away from our existence. Please do not forget that it is the same 'God of the Europeans' that your ancestors worship, through the lesser gods. I f you are no aware of this, you have to dig deeper into the concept African traditional religion.

The most important thing in life is to share in your neighbour's dispair, the sacrifice of your safety and comfort for the benefit of others, the unfeigned urge to pull out a sinking brethren from the quagmire of misfortune, whether you are a Christian, Atheist, Agnowetincall, Bhuddist, Rosicrucian, Cross bearer of the Grail Movement, deeper life, Mommon, etc, those simple laws of nature will make or break you, we should not waste our energy on 'My God is good and yours is wack' debate, because it has never resulted in a conclusive outcome.

Live and let live, respect other people's differences, make the world a better place.

spikedcylinder:

GL,i said forget the bible for a split second(if you possibly can).You do not know where the bible originated from.You only think you know because of what you´ve been made to believe.If indeed someone tried to convince you that the bible was a pile of crap,i believe you should be able to speak up for your beliefs based on what God told you,not through the bible because that rubbish is rubbish.

As I said, while I believe God talks to people, I've never heard directly from Him. I take His words in the bible as His words to me. However, my belief in God at the moment is based more on my personal experiences. He has become real to me. I really don't know how else to explain other than this, that's why I said in a previous post that you must enter the Kingdom of God first before you can understand what it's all about. Since, you don't believe the bible you may not believe this, but God hides Himself, and everything about Him, from those who want to reason Him out. Becoming a christian in itself, is a great step of faith.

Afeni:

GL, you do not feel anything. You are brainwashed sorry, sorry person. People like you must be saved from yourself. If I was to guess, your parents probly fed you all this crap and you bought it. Its a pitty that some people find it hard to think for themselves.

I do feel something, and I'm definately NOT brainwashed. I know what I'm doing and I made a conscious decision to become a christian. If you really knew what christianity is all about, you'd realize that one can't be brainwashed to become a christian. Anyone who was forced or brainwashed is just a churchgoer and is only wasting his time calling himself a christian.

Yes, I was born into a christian family and practically raised in a church, but over the years I passed through different phases that caused me to question the faith. At a time, I was just a churchgoer and not a christian anymore. Memories of personal experiences I had as a child kept calling though and somehow I found my way back to God. While I'm not perfect (I'm very far from it), I am certain that this is my own choice. I made a conscious decision to become a christian, and make conscious efforts to live the christian life. So, I know what I'm doing, I wasn't forced or persuaded to do it. There are many issues, even religious issues, on which I hold different views from my parents and even my church. So this is not pandering to anybody's opinion; it is a personal thing between me and God.

Afeni,


I liken it to being in the midst of people in a moving car who believe the sun is following them. I know that isn't true and I try to explain it to them. If they refuse to believe, I'd just let them be. That's their problem, not mine. That's why it's so funny, the effort you put into bashing Christianity, and other religions, and spreading your religion.

GL, what religion am I spreading?

Afeni,

agnostism, atheism or whatever.

I can describe it: it is quite broad and accomodating, can be ruthless and its central or fundamental quality is that of being actively anti-God.

u may say it isn't a religion, however, going by this definition "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith" from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, it sure IS a religion.

GL, I am sorry if I came across that way. My sincere intentions were to encourage Nigerians that believe in God to take another look at our traditional Gods. I find it sad that so many would turn their backs on the Gods of the Ancestors.

The purpose of this thread was not to encourage spreading Agnosticism or atheism.

it's ok, i understand,

Incredible! @Afeni, you almost sound repentant. Or is all this softness reserved for GL?

HAHA. Are you serious? Why don't you do away with computers, cell phones, electricity and all the good things the british have done. I mean, it isn't that hard. This is just ridiculous.
I'm Agnostic, so the british invented that too? I doubt God's existence and it's the britishs' fault?
No kidding.

Retro, there is actually a clear benefit to those items (phones e.t.c.). What is the clear benefit of religion? All it is unfounded claims. Hence, resources (time e.t.c.) should not be wasted on thing that show no clear benefit.

Who are you to tell people what to do? Everybody believes in whatever/whoever they want to believe in. Actually people benefit from religion otherwise there wouldn't be so many christians, muslims, whatever in the world. And what makes you think it's a waste of time? It might be a waste of YOUR time but it's certainly NOT a waste of their time.

Are there really so many Christians and Muslims because they benefit from it?

Or are there many Christians and Muslims because of Crusades and Jihads?

It is a waste of time because there is no clear benefit to worshipping these gods.

It is also a waste of their time, but they are so disillusioned because they have been brought up to accept and not to question these Gods.

Are there really so many Christians and Muslims because they benefit from it?

Or are there many Christians and Muslims because of Crusades and Jihads?

It is a waste of time because there is no clear benefit to worshipping these gods.

It is also a waste of their time, but they are so disillusioned because they have been brought up to accept and not to question these Gods.

If people thought that religion was a waste of time, then NOBODY'll have one. You know what's another waste of time? You trying to make a point. You'll never make a point, at least not to me.

Retro, you are implying that they are capable of making a decision on this subject. They can't! All their life they have been made to believe things without proof. You can't somehow expect this same people who were possibly lied to their entire lives to come up with a rational conclusion toward religion without outside interference. They need help, and I created this thread to offer some assistance.

HAHAHA! They need help and you think YOU can help them? I'm not going to interfere with your dream. Have fun! It's a good thing to dream. Dream on buddy, dream on.

Enjoy. Let me know if you've made any progress!

Now you're the "messiah." The only rational one.