history and research has it that the three wise men whom visited the baby after the birth through the help from a star were astrologers. these men are from the east which is the persia. and persia came from babylonia

any body want to argue or study?

God can use anybody. This doesn't mean that God approved their
profession.

pictures: God can use anybody. This doesn't mean that God approved their
profession.

here you go.

what do you know about the gift? the gift is what joself and mary use to substain themself in egypt. what do you knw about approve? this visit was divine and there are many to it. also a pagans gift is what is still sustaining the church of today, and the church is the body of christ. remove pagans from the church today all the church will cease to exist. you do not know anything about mystics then ask question. the visit was approve and divine. GOD warn them to depart through other means.

their number is unknown and yes, they were from somewhere between saudi and iraq.

most likely [just guessing] the region where abraham was originally from.

Nice topic!

@Joel, what materials do you have in support?

I think we will find out on that glorious day, that God has people in every tribe, nation, and yes even 'religion'. Didn't Jesus say that He had sheep of other flock and He would bring us all together.

Joel.:
history and research has it that the three wise men whom visited the baby after the birth through the help from a star were astrologers. these men are from the east which is the persia. and persia came from babylonia

I wanna study...tell me more...

the wise men are the persian kings who are well know of ocult' they are the magi or magos. which means magician. that is where the english borrow the word magic from. the star they saw was not in the physical body but spiritual. the star stood on top of the young child jesus and only them can sees it.
the persian is known of predicting destinies, uncover mistics and interpreting dream, unfold spiriual symbol or issue and can tell future invent. i will explain more some other day. i have to go now.

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Joel.:
the wise men are the persian king who are well know of ocult' they are the magi or magos. which means magician. that is where the english borrow the word magic from. the star they saw was not in the physical body but spiritual. the star stood ontop of the child jesus and only them can sees it.
the persian is known of predicting the destinies, or see future invent. i will explain more some other day. i have to go now.

Interesting take. I was discussing this with hubby the other day. Infact my exact question was how did the magi know exactly which 'house' to go if the star was "in the sky"?

There are a few theories out there. One including that the "star" was actually a rare planetary allignment that "pointed" the way. Others postulate a supernova. A key point, is the fact that Herod (and others) probably couldn't see it - hence asking them to report back when they find the King instead of simply trying to find the King themselves. But maybe "see" not necessarily mean physical sight or, seeing in this context may mean physically seeing it and also being able to understand & 'interpret' what they were seeing.

Here's a link to several interesting theories: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3077385/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/astronomers-still-wondering-about-star-wonder/

When you have more time, pls do share some more thoughts. Cheers.

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The Greek historian Herodotus
indicates that the Magi were a
sect of Medeans residing in
Persia, which during the time of
Christ's birth was under the rule
of the Parthian Empire. The Magi
were scientists, priests,
astronomers and astrologers (at
the time, these professions
would not have seemed
antithetical). The Magi existed,
according to some estimates, for
approximately five thousand
years, seeing the rise and fall of
many emperors. Though the
Magi priesthood may predate
Zoroaster, at the time of Christ
they were almost certainly
Zoroastrians. It should be noted
that no religion in the ancient
world was as similar to Judaism
as this tradition: Zoroaster
thought of aiding the poor as
one of his religion's core values
and believed in a day of
judgement, a creator god and a
personified evil (i.e. "the devil".
Zoroastrianism has also been
referred to as "qualified
monotheism" because, though
other gods appear in their
sacred texts, they are merely the
servants of the creator god - a
god of wisdom and justice.
These Magi then, were not
merely a small band of 'wise
men,' but a Medean tribe that
had developed into an entire
social class of priests and sages.
Though they did not directly
govern Persia, they were the
center of spiritual-political
authority through the ages of
several great empires. They
interpreted dreams and were
responsible for sacred rituals,
including animal sacrifices. The
Magi may have even been
responsible for crowning any
new ruler who came to power. If
true, then to be crowned without
the favor of the Magi would
jeopardize the legitimacy of any
king.
The Magi believed that the stars
could be used to predict the birth
of great rulers.

Their interpretations
led them to believe that the next
great ruler was about to be born:
the "king of the Jews." But even
so, why visit the newborn king of
a foreign nation? It is not
implausible to assume that the
main intention of the Magi was
diplomatic in origin. If a new
king had been born, it would
prove useful to pay tribute to him
and his family. They may have
assumed that Herod, the ruler of
Judea and Palestine, had
produced a son, an heir to his
seat of power, who would
exceed his father's legacy by
leaps and bounds. Rome and
Parthia were the two
"superpowers" of the era, much
as the U.S. and Russia were
before the fall of the Soviet
Union. Palestine was significant
as a militarily strategic point
between these two powers - the
bridge between East and West.
Since their journey would take
them several months, it is more
than likely that they brought with
them a long list of secondary
objectives. Since tensions
between Rome and Parthia were
high at this time, the Magi may
have wanted Herod (who was a
close personal friend of Emperor
Augustus) to help them intercede
and prevent a war. On these
matters we can only speculate
but it is fairly safe to assume that
the Magi would have seen the
world not only through a
spiritual, but also a political lens.
Diplomatic motives, then, if not
the primary objective, must have
at least been a secondary
consideration. There is nothing
to suggest that the Magi were
seeking a 'spiritual king.' Though
they are described as
'worshipping' Christ this is not
far afield from the language of
reverence used to refer to mortal
forms of nobility and authority
(though the chasm between
'political' and 'spiritual' authority
was not very wide in their era).
Nevertheless, it is easy to read
the end of their story as a
"conversion" of sorts, which
almost implies, at the outset, that
they had meant their trip to be a
spiritual quest. Whatever the
cause, it can be imagined that
these men embarked on their
trip with anxious but hopeful
hearts. The journey itself would
be long and arduous. And who
knew what they would find at
their journey's end?
Assuming that they had followed
the main trade route from Persia
(modern day Iran), they would
have probably used horses to
cross over mountainous and
rocky terrain, switching to
camels once they reached the
desert. It can be assumed, since
their journey did not need to be
kept secret, that they traveled
along the main trade route of
their era. This meant that they
would have followed the
Euphrates River up through what
is now Iraq, crossed over the
harsh and desolate Syrian desert,
passed through the lush Jordan
Valley and arrived, after a journey
of several months, at the gates of
Jerusalem. They would have seen
harsh and barren deserts, lush
green hills, mountains and rivers.
To a small group of wearisome
travelers unaccustomed to such
turbulent and varied conditions,
it might have seemed as if they
had traveled across the entire
stretch of the world. T.S. Eliot
captures the spirit and struggle
of this trek best in his famous
poem "The Journey of the Magi."
[Click here to read Eliot's " The
Journey of the Magi."]
What happened next came as a
shock. King Herod had become
sickly and paranoid. Among
other medical ailments, he
suffered from syphilis. He was
dying, and those who stood a
chance to replace him on the
throne knew that now was the
time to make their bid for power.
To thwart these attempts, Herod
had already killed his previous
wife and several of his sons. King
Herod knew that the new King
the Magi were seeking could not
be one of his own heirs.
Consulting with his advisors,
Herod learned of the Hebraic
prophecies concerning a Jewish
leader who would be born in
Bethlehem. Sharing this
information with the Magi, he
then said to them: "Go and
search diligently for the young
child; and when you have found
him, bring me word again, that I
may come worship him also." Of
course, Herod hoped to have the
child slain, destroying any
potential threat to his rule.
After a journey of over a
thousand miles into a foreign
country, the Magi finally found
their way to Mary, Joseph and
their son Jesus, who was, at this
point, between the ages of one
and two. To the elite and
aristocratic Magi, this couple
might have seemed like simple
"peasants." They were also of a
different race and religion. Yet, as
we all have heard from the story,
St. Matthew has said that they
offered up "Gold, Frankincense
and Myrrh." These were gifts not
easily or quickly parted with and
they imply that the Magi meant to
legitimize the newborn's rule. St.
Matthew even describes the Magi
falling down to "worship" the
newborn. What did they envision
for this small child and his
future? What sort of nation did
they imagine that he would lead?
What did these foreigners learn
from their travels abroad - their
pilgrimage? What influenced
them to risk their lives for a child
of prophecy? Did they think of
him as a political 'King' or had
some of their discoveries given
rise to a more spiritual
interpretation? What sort of
conversations did these men
have with Mary and Joseph? Did
their cultural and religious
differences seem irreconcilable?
Were they able to communicate
at all, or was the language
barrier insurmountable? St.
Matthew is intentionally simple
and brief in his narrative,
omitting these details.

The Magi were warned by God in
a dream not to return. Since
Herodotus informs us that they
were famous dream interpreters;
it is clear that they would take
such a dream very seriously. They
escaped Palestine through an
alternate route. In his fury, Herod
ordered that every child under
the age of two in Bethlehem be
slain. (Today, Holy Land Trust
commemorates this event by
hosting "The Festival of
Innocents," which honors
innocent children who have been
more recently slain by modern
"Herods." Joseph, Mary and their
son fled to Egypt until Herod died
and it was safe to return.
No matter how deeply we dig
into the question of the Magi, we
are always left with more
questions than answers. Their
story is one of the great
mysteries of the New Testament
and scholars, of course, have
proposed a plethora of theories
to explain the riddle of the 'Wise
Men.'
back to top
Differing Interpretations
The Magi are mentioned in only
one of the gospels, Matthew, and
their story is told in less than 300
words. This raises a contentious
question: why didn't the other
infancy gospels (the gospels that
describe the events surrounding
Jesus' birth) mention the Magi?
Some Christian theologians,
though they do not question the
validity and significance of
Matthew's account, have
suggested that he hadn't
intended his narrative to be read
as strict history, that it is a story
included for its theological-and
not its historical-significance. The
New Catholic Encyclopedia
concludes that there are at least
three possible readings of this
text: "(1) the Magi were real
persons who visited Christ just as
Matthew describes them; (2) a
group of Magi had visited
Jerusalem at some time previous
to the birth of Christ and
Matthew associates this visit with
the guidance of the star and the
adoration of Christ; (3) the star
and the visit and the Magi
themselves are completely
legendary, elements introduced
to underline the fulfillment of
prophecy… Nothing in the
character of inspiration or in the
nature of Sacred Scripture would
preclude any of these
possibilities." According to
Richard Texler: "[Matthew's
infancy gospel] sounds
suspicious, so much so that by
the 1960s belief in the magi was
a litmus test to determine if one
were a conservative or a liberal
in matters biblical."
So, though we've put forward a
few theories regarding the Magi,
the field of possibilities is
perhaps wider than we had
originally anticipated. Even if we
assume that St. Matthew's
account was not intentionally
parabolic and unhistorical,
myriad theories exist on the facts
regarding these men. Some have
proposed, contrary to our
assumption that the Magi came
from Persia, that the group
journeyed from Saudi Arabia,
Babylon or Jordan (St. Matthew
tells us only that they came from
'the East'). In popular accounts,
some cultures have assumed that
there were 'three' wise men or
Magi, others have placed the
number at twelve. At one point in
European history, the 'three'
Magi were divided by age and
artists rendered them as being:
young, middle-aged, and elderly.
In the late Middle Ages, painters
began portraying one of the
'three' wise men as black (which
continues to be one of the
standard motifs even today). The
Magi were once assumed to be
Kings, then merchants and then
scholars. Speculation also arose
that, if the Magi were kings, each
came from a different continent
representing Europe, Africa and
Asia (which, though perhaps a
beautiful gesture towards
multiculturalism, is almost
certainly not true). It seems that a
few of the central questions of
this story remain, despite our
best efforts, shrouded in mystery.
back to top
Conclusion: The Lessons of the
Magi
The Magi were rich and well
respected scholars. They were
power players behind the throne
of Parthia. Embarking on an
arduous trek through the various
landscapes of the Middle East,
they thought their task was ruled
by a simple diplomatic mission
but, in the end, they greatly
offended king Herod,
jeopardizing Parthia's
relationship with Judea, and put
their own lives at great risk. They
had crossed over cultural and
class boundaries to honor the
small child of two peasants
whom they had concluded was
the child of prophecy and would
become the much anticipated
'king of the Jews.' As non-Jews,
these members of the
Zoroastrian leadership
nevertheless shared in a
common vision with these faiths
and like Jews (and later
Christians) sought to honor God
and his Messiah. In this sense,
from the Christian vantage point,
the Magi could almost be seen as
the "Muslims" of the ancient
world: people who in fact share
more in common with Judaism
and Christianity than any other
tradition in modern times. Some
may consider this statement "too
bold" but it is certainly no
accident that some of the first
people to honor Christ's birth
were foreigners and non-Jews.
The Gospels are full of examples
in which the "outsiders" of Judea
are shown as true servants of
God. Certainly the story also
reaffirms that the command to
"love thy neighbor" stretches
beyond all cultural, linguistic,
class and religious bounds.
The image of rich and exalted
Magi bowing before a poverty
stricken child Messiah has also
captured the moral imagination
of the world. Church ministers
throughout the ages have used
this image to implore their
congregations to, just as the
Magi did, honor God with a
charitable gift (presumably
through the church). The gift of
the Magi is responsible for the
current tradition of Christmas gift
exchanges among friends and
family members. The humbling of
oneself in the giving of gifts
could certainly be considered in
the "spirit of the Magi." The
danger of our age is that,
according to Richard Trexler, the
Magi have "lost their identities as
Christian figures… Thus their
gifts are now a byword for
luxury gift giving in secular
circles, their act of gifting
understood at times as a purely
commercial transaction." Here
too, we could dig deeper and ask
ourselves: what gifts would best
honor the tradition of the Magi?
And, in fitting with the image of
the rich providing for the poor,
who is in most need of the gifts
that we can offer?
Though clear moral messages
seem implied in St. Matthew's
account, there are no easy
answers to some of the
questions raised by this
narrative. We encourage you to
explore the text and the issues
yourself, giving the complications
careful consideration. You will
find, even if the gospel account is
familiar to you, that there are
layers and spiritual lessons that
will reveal themselves after
several readings. No matter how
deeply we search, however,
much will still remain shrouded
in mystery. This is perhaps for
the best. After all, the mystery
itself, it could be said, is also a
gift.
back to top
Appendix
click here to read St. Matthew's
account of the "Wise
Men." (Matthew, Ch. 2)
click here T.S. Eliot's poem
"Journey of the Magi."
click here to read more about the
"Star of Bethlehem"

source www.magijourney.com/ancient.html

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Well, those men where indeed astrologers from a pagan nation . Will God use astrologers to identify the birth of Christ?. Definitely no , as he has warned the isrealites not to patronize astrologers.
God did this announcement through angels who announced to the isrealite shephereds in the field and who thus went to look for jesus.

Is the star a natural phenomenom? Definitely no , as the star kept moving from point to point in the area of herods rule, natural stars can't move and stop and move again and stop again.
Furthermore , is was only idol worshipers that saw the star.

Is the star from God? Definitely no. The star was seen by magicians from a pagan nation, first directed them to an enemy, herod who wanted jesus dead. Unless you feel God does not know herods intentions then you can believe the star is from god.

How did the astrologers know a king is born? Bible prophesies written in that region has long indicated the birth of the messiah and they took it seriously. Remember those pagans in that region have great reverence for the God of the Jews cus of the truthfull prediction of the loss of their empire, the destruction of ninever and Babylon, the prediction of who will do it and the return of the Jews to their land.

Did you know that the real israelites are in west africa and southern africa. The current white jews that are in the land of israel right now are descendants of khazars- judaism converts. They converted to judaism in the 8th century. Khazars came from the kingdom of khazaria in modern ukraine and georgia. That land of israel is occupied by fake jews. Remember in the Bible- prophet moses was mistaken as an egyptian by the daughters of jethro priest of midian. It has been proven scientifically that the ancient egpytians are black africans. Read Song of Solomon 1:5-6, king solomon of israel described as a dark man. And Job30:30, Prophet job said his skin is black upon him. WARNING !!!-do not deceived by fake american bible movies and european white-washed pictures. The white jesus christ picture is actually cesear borgia- son of a pope. He is a gay and thief. The real jesus christ picture is a Black man.

Akpobaro:
Did you know that the real israelites are in west africa and southern africa. The current white jews that are in the land of israel right now are descendants of khazars- judaism converts. They converted to judaism in the 8th century. Khazars came from the kingdom of khazaria in modern ukraine and georgia. That land of israel is occupied by fake jews. Remember in the Bible- prophet moses was mistaken as an egyptian by the daughters of jethro priest of midian. It has been proven scientifically that the ancient egpytians are black africans. Read Song of Solomon 1:5-6, king solomon of israel described as a dark man. And Job30:30, Prophet job said his skin is black upon him. WARNING !!!-do not deceived by fake american bible movies and european white-washed pictures. The white jesus christ picture is actually cesear borgia- son of a pope. He is a gay and thief. The real jesus christ picture is a Black man.

I will have to come for this. let me take bath first.

watching deluded Christians debate