I have been contending for years about a certain doctrine that I believe to be the cause, more than any other doctrine, of the damnation of many so-called “Christians”. It is that doctrine that teaches that once a person genuinely prays “the sinner’s prayer” that he or she is henceforth saved, and will, no matter what (even after living a life of blatant sin), inherit eternal life. It is known as “Once Saved, Always Saved”, or OSAS, as it is often termed in written form.

Many adherents to this doctrine like to quote Rom. 4:7,8 about God forgiving and covering sins. The context is contrasting works and Old Testament Law with faith. It’s true that we definitely read that we are now no longer under the law at all or any of its commands or “works”. “We have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” (Rom. 7:6) (So if we have the Spirit, we will serve in that new way.) Okay. Hopefully, that can be agreed upon. Now, Rom. 4:7,8 is a quote from Ps. 32:1,2. But if one goes to that context it says that those who are forgiven are those “in whose spirit is no deceit” (v. 2) and who “acknowledge their sin, do not cover up their iniquity, and who confess their transgressions to the LORD.” (See v. 5) Someone living in sin is not doing that. Therefore their sins are not forgiven –as Heb. 10:26, just one passage out of many, makes clear –as we compare Scripture with Scripture and study the contexts.

There is another verse that many in the OSAS group mention. It is Romans 5:1 –”Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” and verse 2 continues, “through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.” That says, “through faith”, “through our Lord Jesus Christ”, and “through whom”… In other words, Christ is the way, the road, the gate –into grace– and our faith in Him is that which applies this extended grace to our own selves. Then it says, “in which we now stand.” So if we are not now standing in Christ, “abiding in Him” –”remaining in Him” as Jesus commands us to continuously do in John 15:1-8 in order to “bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be My disciples”, then “every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Luke 3:9) “For faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” (James 2:17) And v. 20 –”Faith without deeds is useless.” And v. 24: “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” Deeds, action, behavior, is absolutely part of the equation. Actions always are a part of belief, and that goes for inaction too of course. (Example: If I don’t really believe that my boss will fire me for doing nothing on the job, then if I’m the lazy type, I certainly will do nothing.)

Now, since the issue in question may be “faith” itself, let’s discuss the word “faith”. Someone wrote this to me once: “Paul establishes that it is faith in Christ that justifies a believer before a Holy God. He then goes on to write about the destiny of all those who are justified by faith in Romans 8:30. He writes, Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.” I would ask this person: Is there a guarantee in there of eternal life for anyone who defects, turns back, turns away, deserts, disowns, or is faithless or disloyal in following Christ? Anyone who would say “yes” is reading something into it that is not there. Other Scriptures inform us that those that are justified are those “living in” Christ. And I’m sure if one has studied some Greek, you know that these type of verses are in the present continuous tense. It is not about a one time commitment. It is about an ongoing loyalty.

The word “faith” does not mean merely “to believe something is true.” We know this also from verses such as James 2:19 –”…even the demons believe –and shudder.” They shudder because, though they know full well that Jesus “died for all” (2 Cor. 5:15), they have not placed their trust in Jesus. So faith –not having exactly the same meaning as “belief”– is actually closer in meaning to the word “trust”. The dictionary definitions say that “faith” means: “Allegiance to duty or a person; loyalty; fidelity to one’s promises; complete confidence in something for which there is no proof; trust.” And “trust” in the dictionary says, “To place confidence in; depend on; entrust the custody of without misgiving; faithful to the conditions of some relationship.” And “faithful” in turn means “steadfast in the observance of duty; loyal; constant; having unswerving adherence to a person or thing.”

I believe that much of the evangelical world does not own up to what the word “faith” means. It does not just mean belief. It means “believing enough to trust, follow, and obey –with loyalty.” And “loyalty” means “until the end.” Jesus told us in Matt. 4:19, “Come, follow Me.” How can we do that if we are instead adhering to the lordship of ourselves, the world, or some idol in our life? It’s impossible. We are either “controlled and led by the sinful nature which brings death” (see Rom. 8:6,13) OR “by the Spirit which leads to life”. (See 8:11,13,14) This “death” means spiritual death. The context of the word “death” (or “die”, “dead”, etc.) in Scripture, when it is in the context of the word “sin”, will reveal this.

Here’s several verses to support what I mean:

*Gen. 2:17 –”… for when you eat of it [if you disobey Me] you will surely die.”

*Ezek. 33:18 –”If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it.”

*Luke 15:24 –”For this [wayward] son of mine was dead and is alive again.”

*Gal. 6:8 –”The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.” What is being compared in the context? “Eternal life with destruction.” Therefore, the “destruction” is an eternal destruction (eternal death.) So: “Spirit-controlled behavior reaps eternal life. Sinful-nature behavior reaps eternal death.” And the next verse (v. 9) admonishes us: “Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.” We must continue “doing good.”

*Rom. 6:16 also speaks of the word “death”. –”Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey –whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?” That context is about “being freed from sin” because “our old self has been crucified with Christ.” (v. 6,7) Let’s compare that to Gal. 5:24 –”Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.” This then stands to reason that those who have not crucified the sinful nature are not in Christ Jesus. Right? So why are all these preachers and theologians telling us that we carry around two natures? 2 Cor. 5:17 says “If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” That’s what baptism signifies: The old self having been killed; the new creation having “been raised with Christ.” (Col. 3:1) (See also Rom. 6:11) “For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.” (Col. 3:3)

Now let’s look at some verses (though there’s scores and scores more of them) that speak of our continuous free choice to either walk closely in the truth, following Jesus, or to turn away from (to desert) Him by being disloyal to His commands:

**Luke 22:32 –”But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail.” It’d be strange for Jesus to say this, or take the time to pray this, if it were not possible that Simon’s faith did indeed have the potential or ability to fail.

**John 6:66 –”From this time [context: after hearing a "hard teaching" --v. 60] many of His disciples turned back and no longer followed Him.”

**Luke 8:13 –”They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.”


Please read rest in attachment
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frosbel: ^^^^^

GOD does not forsake us, we forsake him.

Therefore , if we make mistakes or SIN for example and repent to continue in our walk with humility and faith, we will make it.

Further , there are some who believe that because we are saved we can LIE, Cheat, Steal and even Kill without losing our right standing with GOD. I believe this to be false.

Just to reiterate, we will have to forsake GOD by a persistent and unrepentant practice of SIN or willing rejection of this salvation to be lost.

i.chuka:
@OP
Please answer my previous question.
Why would God promise something He can't keep?
2,what's your definition of Enternal Life?
Thanks

1. Because eternal life is a matter of promise.

"This is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life" (1 John 2:25). "Eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the world began" (Titus 1:2). "According to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 1:1).

The fact of eternal life being a subject of promise is proof that it is not the subject of present possession, for what a man has in his possession is no longer "promised" to him.

2. Because it is in the world or age to come that eternal life is to be received and enjoyed.

"He shall receive ... in the world to come, eternal life" (Mark 10:30). "He that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal" (John 12:25). "God will render ... to them who ... seek for glory, honour, and immortality, eternal life ... in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ" (Rom. 2:7, 16). "The righteous shall go into life eternal" (Matt. 25:46).

If it is in the age to come that eternal life is to be conferred, it is manifest that it cannot be possessed in the present age.

3. Because "eternal life" means strictly "the life of the Age to come"; the word in the New Testament being derived from the Greek word for "Age". It is truly life which will never end, and therefore is also translated "everlasting life".

"They who shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world ... neither can they die any more" (Luke 20:36). "I give unto my sheep eternal life, and they shall never perish" (John 10:28). "The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).

If eternal life is everlasting life, it follows that in the present state we lack it, seeing our life is not everlasting, but comes to an end, necessitating our return to mother earth.

4. Because eternal or everlasting life results from a change of this corruptible and mortal body into an incorruptible and immortal one.

"He shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Phil. 3:21). "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (1 Cor. 15:53). "Clothed upon, that mortality may be swallowed up of life" (2 Cor. 5:4).

Our present mortal and corruptible state is therefore evidence that we do not now possess immortal life.

Read the rest here

frosbel:



Answer to Question 1 : He can keep you to the very end depending on your will to abide in him. I hope you know we are not Robots.


Answer to Question 2: Eternal life is not now, it is a future thing.



Read this beautiful excerpt from an article culled from a brothers web site, nicely fits into my point of view and I dare say the bible position.

frosbel: Food for thought :

"But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil." - 1 John 3:8


If someone who is supposedly saved practices SIN , the bible says he is of the DEVIL , how can he be saved anyway

i.chuka:

Galatians 2:20
New International Version (NIV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Who is in charge of the life of a true Christain?

Pygru:
Do you know that man has a will?

i.chuka:

Galatians 2:20
New International Version (NIV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Who is in charge of the life of a true Christain?

chukwudi44: Hebrews 10:26-27

New International Version (NIV)

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

frosbel:


God and Man.

Man is a moral being with the ability to make wrong and right choices, hence the tragic fall of our race by one single act of disobedience from Eve and Adam.

While God woos us to himself out of a deep agape love, we can reject that love and choose to go our own way similar to what happened with the prodigal son.

God is able to keep us to the very end If we remain in his love, when we sin we repent immediately and ask for grace and strength which he supplies, to recover and stabilise our walk with him, but we Must be willing and obedient to eat the good of the land.

We cannot be disobedient and expect to be saved.

i.chuka:

You still don't understand galatains2:20.a true Christain is DEAD

i.chuka:

Yes man has a will.
The real question is does a true Christain has his own will?..NO.
Galatians 2:20
New International Version (NIV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

He is now our will.

i.chuka:
So why would God promise and give someone Enternal Life if we believe(3:16),since the Life is not Enternal according to you?
Why would He even lie about it?
But the scriptue says He cannot lie(Numbers23:19)
Is Enternal Life exhaustible?

chukwudi44: One of the very rare occassions where I will quite agree with Frosbel.This heresy is indeed one of the most dangerous heresies ever to emerge in xtianity.The word of faith movement have used this heresy to give its members free pass to sin.

i.chuka:
It seems the problem you guys have is mixing mixing Enternal Life with the Kingdom of God which are two different things altogether.

frosbel:

Eternal life is a promise for those who endure to the end and is experienced in :

1. Incorruptible bodies
2. The new heaven and earth.

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt". Daniel 12:2

"Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more." Romans 6:9


Don't confuse eternal life with the born again experience.

Bidam: so is the Holy Spirit...the Spirit of eternal life NOT resident in a believer?