Goshen360: English Standard Version (©2001)
Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.

Romans 3:19

If you're a teacher of the of Moses, teach it to the Jews because this scripture tells us who\those the law of Moses was given and applies to.

DrummaBoy: @Bidam
The promises WERE conditional in the OT but not in the NT
But that as it may we have a new ball game in the NT
1. We have a father who disciplines his children, whether they fail or are good, to attain greater holiness. EG, Jesus, who was perfect, learnt obedience by the things he suffered
2. There is spiritual discipline for sins committed by Christians, for maturity sake and for deference.
3. The whole process of bringing sons to maturity is the work of God's grace called sanctification. So whether it is discipline or blessing, the Christian is blessed.
4. That is why Goshen position that we are blessed is correct: bc Good or bad, God is working all things out for our good: WE ARE A BLESSED PEOPLE!!!

Ihedinobi: I have been unable until now to address the issue of the relationship between the Old Covenant and the Christian. I still hope that I will at some point, but for now...

Deuteronomy 28 speaks exclusively to believers. The whole Bible speaks exvlusively to believers. To the world, the Bible is a mystery, a dark saying and an inscrutable parable, but to the Christian it is an unfolding secret.

We are saved because we have accepted Jesus's obedience as sufficient for God's demand of us. Because we naturally are unable to keep God's Law, we have to look outside ourselves for the adequate response to the Lord's demands of us. This is where Christ comes in. He offers His righteousness to us in order that we may offer it to God for the obedience that Deuteronomy 28 speaks of.

Thus faith in the Lord Jesus means an adoption of His merits with which to lay rightful claim to the blessings of Deuteronomy 28. And such faith is expressed by the works and behaviors and attitudes and pattern of living that is exclusively Christ.

Thus, evidence that such faith is lacking in some area of our lives is when we are found walking in the disobedience that Deuteronomy 28 speaks of. And in such an area, the curses of Deuteronomy 28 are brought to bear upon us.

What God does for us by birthing us again is that He places a deposit of Christ - the Holy Spirit of Christ - within us. This deposit is that which is the new man. It is that deposit that is entitled to all the blessings and none of the curses because it is utterly holy and without any spot or wrinkle.

God's desire is that this deposit grow up in us and steadily take over our entire being continually eliminating all of that which is our natural self, that self which is unrighteous and thus under and condemned by the law and entitled only to the curse of the law.

As that which is Christ grows in us, so does our ability to take advantage of all the blessing of Deuteronomy 28. Only in such areas of our life where Christ is unrivalled do we experience fully and without hindrance the blessings of Deuteronomy 28. In those areas where the ground is not completely under Christ, we will experience the contradiction/paradox of blessing and cursing.

In saying this, I am insistent on holding Scriptures unbroken and speaking truth that is evident in day-to-day living.

Indeed, believers are no longer beneath the law, the law is now within them. That being the case, all the words of the law are simply descriptions of them. However, it is good to remember that we must grow up into Him in all things for in the places that we do not by the Day of Reckoning, ground will be lost eternally.

Grace be with all God's people.

Bidam: I agree that we are blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies. But faith is our response to God and NOT God response to us.Just like you said about "maturity". The christian journey is based on revelations and experience and not only revelations. It is rather pathetic that in our generation "we speak more than we lived the LIFE". An experience is God showing you His promises in His Word and then giving you the principles/revelations on how to obtain these great and precious promises, bringing a problem or test to see whether you are able to apply the principles He Has taught you to solve the problem before you can be able to lay claim of your possessions after you have passed the test or solved the problem.In that sense i believe God promises are conditional.
If you read through out the scriptures anywhere you see God's promises you will see "IF" a conditional statement attached to it. even salvation has an "If" attached to it cos if you don't believe and respond how will you be saved?

Image123:
kindly explain this 'not applicable but relevant for reference' thought line, its bamboozling to me.
BTW, the op clearly states that Deuteronomy 28 is NOT for christians. i think that's clear enough.

phabouluz: Tnx for the insight, unfortunately we twist God's word to suit our purpose whereas we His word is settled, Christ did not come to destroy the law (old testament) but He came to fulfill it.
Let's not mislead others.

DrummaBoy: I refuse to agree with the bolded. The just shall live by faith, not by experiences. Faith commeth by hearing the word of God: we know whath that really means is gaining understanding into the word of God and that understanding is revelation.
So regardless of experiences, God calls us to gain understanding into his word. This is what builds faith, with which we can surmount any experience: good or bad.

DrummaBoy: Now the major challenge with folks like you Bidam here is not understanding where grace and law belongs in God's word: rather it is a security in your works. You have not really gotten to that point in your Christian life where you understand that it is not so much of what you do that earns God's favor but what He has done: Jesus Cross. What you do only follows that. But then when you understand the cross and what it has done for you, what you do becomes a no issue. You don't put value on your works. The proof of that is that you would be able to let other Christians be what God wants them to be. You don't become a spiritual police, determining who should be blessed, how they should be blessed "IF" they need to be blessed and all of that.

DrummaBoy: You are too busy gazing on the grace of God made abundant to a sinner like yourself that you are bothered what others do or fail to do.

DrummaBoy: So, yes, the OT had "IFs" to enjoy God's blessing but for the NT, the "IF" ends with a person coming to faith in Christ. That minute on, there is no more "IF", no more condition to be blessed. Rather HE IS BLESSED!. And he has resumed a most glorifying work with God, that would take him through his sanctification process - which is his works - and culminate in his glorification.

In Christendom, the most holy people sometimes experience the most excruciating experiences. While the most carnal people sometimes enjoy the best of this life. We are blessed because of our position in Christ, not because of what we do or do not do.

Let me end the discuss with a story of Luther and his assistant Phillip Melachton. Luther once told Phillip "Sin lustfully, so grace may abound to you". He was not encouraging Phiillip to sin but he realized that Phillip was really not enjoying the grace of God because he had so much security in his works. He felt that if Phillip was to fall into a great sin, like fornication, when he is restored to God, he would appreciate what it means to be forgiven. He would see more of what God has done for him and not what he can do for God (eg, holiness). I have a feeling that folks like you Bidam need to sin lustfully so that grace may abound to you.

DrummaBoy: The just shall live by faith, not by experiences

brilapluz:

Fine..let me it more clearer to U..IT IS NOT REQUIRED BY TODAY CHRISTIANS TO BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE THE STANDARD OF GOD..d only reason we,christians, stand justified b4 God is d LAW OF CHRIST WHICH IS LOVE..but like paul told d galatians,in galatians 3:10,so its Up 2 U 2 decide which LAW u wud want 2 OBSERVE..d law of moses or d law of christ..its ur choice,ur life..

Image123: ,
you can't observe the law of Christ to be justified. Justification is by faith, not by observation or love, whatever that means.

Image123:
Fortunately for us, the verse you quoted connote and even denote that it refers to EVERY MAN, THE WHOLE WORLD, THE ENTIRE WORLD. But some wuruwuru from you picks just the jews. How?

Goshen360:

Yeyenatu! Quote where the law of Moses was written or given to the Non-Jews by birth, the Gentiles Christians and I will quote where scriptures says the law of Moses was written and meant ONLY for the Jews. Are you ready to run this race set before you?

Goshen360:

Yeyenatu! Quote where the law of Moses was written or given to the Non-Jews by birth, the Gentiles Christians and I will quote where scriptures says the law of Moses was written and meant ONLY for the Jews. Are you ready to run this race set before you?

haibe:
where did the bible say the law of moses was meant for jews only?

Image123:
what is the meaning of "yeyenatu"? You already quoted the answer you need. I know the race set before me, if you have anything important to say, kindly go ahead.

Goshen360:

Yeyenatu is a Yoruba terms for meaning....You're not serious! Abi you don become actor wey no understand Yoruba again ni?

Goshen360:

You don come again? You and me don debate this issue before. You still want me give you undated version?

haibe:

lol I only asked a question na.

Goshen360:

Abeg go study your bible joor. No be every answer I go provide for you. Both Old & New Testament says the law of Moses was given to the Jews ONLY, not to Christians inclusive.

Bidam: BIG LIE.It is those of the flesh who are not subject to God's law (Romans 8:5-.
If you say you know Him, and ignore His commandments you are a liar (1 John 2:3-7).
It does not matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile, what matters is keeping God's commandments. (1 Cor. 7:19)
The "law of love" is that we keep his commandments - which is by no means a "burden" (1 John 5:3; 2 John 1:6; Matt. 11:29,30)

Goshen360:

Bidam, seriously you need to re-take bible study class. The reference to "His" there is Christ, not Moses. So, what's Christ's commandment? A NEW commandment I GIVE UNTO YOU...that already replaced and\or fulfilled the TEN COMMANDMENTS....for love is the fulfillment of the mosaic law.

Bidam: Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1cor7:19 KJV.

And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.2 John 1:6 KJV


1 John 2:3-7

English Standard Version (ESV)

3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.



1 John 5:3

New King James Version (NKJV)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Zikkyy:

.....and what exactly is God's commandment? Do you think the writer was referring to the mosaic law?

1 John 3:23 (NIV)
23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

1 John 4:21 (NIV)
21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

Bidam: The scripture i quoted is saying COMMANDMENTS. Explain that please.

Bidam: The scripture i quoted is saying COMMANDMENTS. Explain that please.

Bidam:
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1cor7:19 KJV.

Zikkyy:

Please answer debosky's question, now that you are of the opinion that the commandments are plenty tells us God's commandment(s) that we are required to keep



all this time, i was thinking circumcision was on Bidam's list of part of God's 'commandment(s)'

Zikkyy:

Please answer debosky's question, now that you are of the opinion that the commandments are plenty tells us God's commandment(s) that we are required to keep

Goshen360:

You're simply insulting the finished works of the cross bro. A Christian is not cursed anymore because he/she falls into sin under the new covenant, he/she don't just continue to make a practice of sin, it does not say anywhere in the new covenant that curse return on such person.