As I said before, I have a counter argument for you (Mr Anony) which I think does a better job against God.

Premise 1: God exists and cares about humans.
Premise 2: God would prefer it if most or all humans go to heaven.
Premise 3: All children who die below the age of three years will go to heaven.
Conclusion: It would be right to kill all children below the age of three years until the human species goes extinct. Following from this, the person who does this is the ultimate altruist.

The God here is a variant of the Christian God. And you may assume that people go on living in some form after their death.

In fact, this reasoning has been used as a justification of God's command to commit genocide.

How would you respond?

Atheist on the lose again.

sylve11: Atheist on the lose again.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

thehomer: As I said before, I have a counter argument for you (Mr Anony) which I think does a better job against God.

Premise 1: God exists and cares about humans.
Premise 2: God would prefer it if most or all humans go to heaven.
Premise 3: All children who die below the age of three years will go to heaven.
Conclusion: It would be right to kill all children below the age of three years until the human species goes extinct. Following from this, the person who does this is the ultimate altruist.

The God here is a variant of the Christian God. And you may assume that people go on living in some form after their death.

In fact, this reasoning has been used as a justification of God's command to commit genocide.

How would you respond?

and God told Humans to kill babies? Your conclusion is just as false as atheism, since God forbade humans from taking the life of another, it then follows, Obedience to God is more important than any false altruism, . . ., after all God could have simply ended the life of the children if it is his will, since it is not his will, then his will, which he clearly has expressed, "we should not take the life of anybody", holds true for any action we want to take.

vedaxcool:

and God told Humans to kill babies? Your conclusion is just as false as atheism, since God forbade humans from taking the life of another, it then follows, Obedience to God is more important than any false altruism, . . ., after all God could have simply ended the life of the children if it is his will, since it is not his will, then his will, which he clearly has expressed, "we should not take the life of anybody", holds true for any action we want to take.

Guy, go back to your cave in the islam section.

Patiently waiting for Mr. Anony.


Was captivated reading the Homer's comments on the other thread and so will be on the sidelines for this one.....

vedaxcool:

and God told Humans to kill babies? Your conclusion is just as false as atheism, since God forbade humans from taking the life of another, it then follows, Obedience to God is more important than any false altruism, . . ., after all God could have simply ended the life of the children if it is his will, since it is not his will, then his will, which he clearly has expressed, "we should not take the life of anybody", holds true for any action we want to take.

why then did mohammed behead 700 banu quraiza jews? why didnt allah just just use his will to do it?

vedaxcool:

and God told Humans to kill babies? Your conclusion is just as false as atheism, since God forbade humans from taking the life of another, it then follows, Obedience to God is more important than any false altruism, . . ., after all God could have simply ended the life of the children if it is his will, since it is not his will, then his will, which he clearly has expressed, "we should not take the life of anybody", holds true for any action we want to take.

Interesting.

Logicboy03:


Guy, go back to your cave in the islam section.

Lol be nice.

nnofaith: why then did mohammed behead 700 banu quraiza jews? why didnt allah just just use his will to do it?

Lol! If I recall correctly, the banu quraiza where trial according to their own scriptures,by a judge of their own choosing! Any way I understand your question, which like thehommer is based on a false premise, you would understand thehommer entire arguement if your understand sectarianism in religion, hommer simply ignored tenants of the christians faith to make a case for murdering baby in the name of saving them for paradise, and that is how twisting of religion occurs an individual ignores basic commandments of his religion and invents his own meaning to religion, which I have clearly showed in this case tries inventing a will, God have never intended and supplanting such a will with THE Will God actually stated! To answer your question it sounds better but fails like the latter, why didn't Allah just willed them to death, because he just didn't! Simple! Why did you take coffee(assuming so) because you wanted to, why did you take an afternoon nap, because you wanted to, so also Allah does what he wants, and in this case he left Muhammad pbuh to deal with the issue, had Allah wanted a different outcome he would have intervened, e.g if God wanted to give "logic"boy a functional brain, HE simply does, regardless of whether I like it, you hate it, everybody dislike it, HE simply does what he wills, but as long as God decides not to give "l"b a functional brain, regardless of our prayers etc it will remain so, for as long as possible! And that my friend is how it works, you may as well ask why did he make you a muslim if he wanted humanity to worship him, well because HE have decided to create the world in such a way that HE deems fit!

So no faith, you atheists are not in a position to define God to a theist, since u have decided not to know God, rather we are to tell you based on our understanding of the scriptures we believe he gave us to, and in this case the hommer decided by the typical ignorance of atheism to ignore what christians believe to be God Will to them! So also your question ignores what Allah revealed to Muslims, He does what HE deems fit and in the case of banu Q, HE did what HE deemed fit!

@ vedaxcool.
it looks more like the affairs of men to me!

@vedaxcool
it looks like the affairs of men to me!

nnofaith: @vedaxcool
it looks like the affairs of men to me!

Maybe you are getting me, my point is Allah does what he wills, and in this case like any other he has provided men with the Qur'an as a form of guidance, a collection of what is expected of men, because God has given men a certain degree of freedom in their action and affairs, in the case of banu Q, they were trialed according to their own revealed scriptures by a judge of their own choosing now the point is the process follows what laws etc made for the benefit of men, men at the end of the day choose whether a certain law applies to a particular case etc! But my point remains if HE wanted them to live HE would easily done so, if HE had wanted them to die by a means of his own choosen HE would have easily done so because HIS WILL always prevails!

vedaxcool:

and God told Humans to kill babies? Your conclusion is just as false as atheism, since God forbade humans from taking the life of another, it then follows, Obedience to God is more important than any false altruism, . . ., after all God could have simply ended the life of the children if it is his will, since it is not his will, then his will, which he clearly has expressed, "we should not take the life of anybody", holds true for any action we want to take.

You need to learn to follow a train of thought. Is it important to obey a God who commands genocide? Or who commands Abraham to kill his own child?

vedaxcool:

Maybe you are getting me, my point is Allah does what he wills, and in this case like any other he has provided men with the Qur'an as a form of guidance, a collection of what is expected of men, because God has given men a certain degree of freedom in their action and affairs, in the case of banu Q, they were trialed according to their own revealed scriptures by a judge of their own choosing now the point is the process follows what laws etc made for the benefit of men, men at the end of the day choose whether a certain law applies to a particular case etc! But my point remains if HE wanted them to live HE would easily done so, if HE had wanted them to die by a means of his own choosen HE would have easily done so because HIS WILL always prevails!

what point is allah trying to make by creating jews and sending an arabic phrophet to behead them?

Logicboy03:


Guy, go back to your cave in the islam section.

ouch

Logicboy03:


Guy, go back to your cave in the islam section.

A similar mistake the Americans made until they shot Osama in the eye in a three storey building in a city. They've moved out of caves and enjoy modern amenities while embracing bronze age ideas.

you guys should stop yabbing the "the people of the cave" na.

nnofaith: what point is allah trying to make by creating jews and sending an arabic phrophet to behead them?

Now perversion of the truth something atheists thrive in doing, seems to be what ur fall back position is, the above represent your own contrived history, and your own contrived story of God, to the best of my knowledge your initial question has been answered, since you have resort to lies to validate your disbelief, you deserve no answer!

thehomer:

You need to learn to follow a train of thought. Is it important to obey a God who commands genocide? Or who commands Abraham to kill his own child?

Is this a new set of question? As clearly your train of "thoughts" as conveyed by the OP has been thoroughly refuted and shown to be a train of banter!

vedaxcool:

Now perversion of the truth something atheists thrive in doing, seems to be what ur fall back position is, the above represent your own contrived history, and your own contrived story of God, to the best of my knowledge your initial question has been answered, since you have resort to lies to validate your disbelief, you deserve no answer!

you are not giving any answer because you are ashamed of what your prophet did! your humanity tells you it is wrong but you cannot admit it because to do that will tantamount to you denouncing your religion, you justify the act in your mind by telling yourself it is the will of allah.and allah cannot be wrong.because allah knows best.

beheading 700 pple enslaving thier women and sharing thier possessions looks like the affairs of men to me

nnofaith: you are not giving any answer because you are ashamed of what your prophet did! your humanity tells you it is wrong but you cannot admit it because to do that will tantamount to you denouncing your religion, you justify the act in your mind by telling yourself it is the will of allah.and allah cannot be wrong.because allah knows best.

I refuse to respond to your lies, as clearly you are only interested in hearing your own lies! I am ashamed that an adult would sit in the comfort of his chair and spew lies and slander, the things that work well in the hands of an atheist, yes I am very ashamed, that your humanity cannot let you admit when you are wrong! Your first question was thoroughly debunked as being the product of poor reasoning just like the op, hence making lies seem the only rational tool left for you . . . I am truly ashamed of what you have become . . . u guys need to check in for some verbal reasoning class, coz threads like these and post like yours make atheism look like a desperate cry for help rather than the suppose freedom it is suppose to be!

nnofaith: what point is allah trying to make by creating jews and sending an arabic phrophet to behead them?

nnofaith: you guys should stop yabbing the "the people of the cave" na.

Why?

nnofaith: beheading 700 pple enslaving thier women and sharing thier possessions looks like the affairs of men to me

Vexdacool needs to show that allah exist first by pointing to it or allowing allah to speak for him or itself, he is just jumping and dancing all over a story as if it means anything in reality. . .

what lie? that he didnt behead 700 jews of banu quraiza? that they didnt share the widows of the beheaded among the muslims? that the didnt share the properties of the beheaded jews among the muslims? what lies?

^
Are atheist always immoral like you? Or is this just your nature? U guys are just cheap evening joke anyway keep lying to yourself, every story has its context and every liar has an eraser! But come oh bros, I am really feeling shame for you, how can u end this darkness that has enveloped you? send me an email, I think we could work on a strategy to end lies from your life!

mazaje:

Vexdacool needs to show that allah exist first by pointing to it or allowing allah to speak for him or itself, he is just jumping and dancing all over a story as if it means anything in reality. . .

What is a thread without the dullest atheist of Nairaland? did u even read the op at all, or u just being dull deliberately? Haba u are embarrassing Arewa with this ur unique behavior, very soon people would think Arewa people are naturally dull, regardless of whether they are theist or atheist, anyway two of us can console ourselves that your fellow atheists barely make pass mark when it comes to IQ! Nitty night!

vedaxcool: ^
Are atheist always immoral like you? Or is this just your nature? U guys are just cheap evening joke anyway keep lying to yourself, every story has its context and every liar has an eraser! But come oh bros, I am really feeling shame for you, how can u end this darkness that has enveloped you? send me an email, I think we could work on a strategy to end lies from your life!

your emotions, bereft of intellect!

nnofaith: your emotions, bereft of intellect!

Thank you oga, but please because of atheism STOP LYING, . . .,

its ok


maa salam!

thehomer: As I said before, I have a counter argument for you (Mr Anony) which I think does a better job against God.

Premise 1: God exists and cares about humans.
Premise 2: God would prefer it if most or all humans go to heaven.
Premise 3: All children who die below the age of three years will go to heaven.
Conclusion: It would be right to kill all children below the age of three years until the human species goes extinct. Following from this, the person who does this is the ultimate altruist.

The God here is a variant of the Christian God. And you may assume that people go on living in some form after their death.

In fact, this reasoning has been used as a justification of God's command to commit genocide.

How would you respond?

I'll suppose you want us to talk about God from a Christian perspective. Bearing this in mind let us look at your argument.

First of all, let us look at your presuppositions here. What is your argument taking for granted?

1. You are granting that God (the ultimate creator of all things) exists and He loves people
2. You are granting that there is an afterlife where a person may have a better or worse lot than he/she currently has i.e. heaven and hell. (note that from a christian perspective, hell is punishment for sin while heaven is God's gift of grace)
3. You are granting also that since God loves people, naturally He wants to give them the gift of eternal life in Heaven.

If the above are true, then killing for God is not necessarily a bad thing regardless of the age especially if God is killing the person into heaven.

Now let us look at your arguments

thehomer:
Premise 1: God exists and cares about humans.

true

Premise 2: God would prefer it if most or all humans go to heaven.

true. He has given heaven as a gift for all who will choose to accept it

Premise 3: All children who die below the age of three years will go to heaven.

I don't know this to be true. This view is not supported by the bible, besides it looks to me like an ad hoc rule sneaked in so as to enhance the shock value of baby killing which will come up later on (why 3? why not 4 or 20 or 67?).

Conclusion: It would be right to kill all children below the age of three years until the human species goes extinct.

While this might sound true on the surface (especially if premise 3 were true). It has the problem of forcing people into heaven against their will.
If it is God who is doing the killing here, then He really hasn't given them heaven as a gift but rather has forced them into heaven. Maybe it is for the "greater good" but then it will mean that God will be doing a disservice to those whom He allows to live beyond age 3.

(note however God still reserves the right to do this as their creator)

Following from this, the person who does this is the ultimate altruist.

If all your premises were true, then a person (and I'm assuming a person other than God here) who kills 3 year olds with the intention of forcing them into heaven will not be an altruist because he is forcing them to go to heaven against their will in much the same way as a person forcing gold coins into your pockets against your will is not an altruist.

(also he/she doesn't have the right to take a life he/she neither creates nor sustains)

thehomer: As I said before, I have a counter argument for you (Mr Anony) which I think does a better job against God

I honestly don't see how your argument does any kind of job against God.