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Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Seun(m): 11:42am On May 24, 2013 |
Not so very long ago, lightning was considered a sign of God's wrath. If you were hit, you were a sinner. Lightning and thunder were the most palpable manifestations of the angry God of the Old Testament, violent and vengeful. The "God-fearing" community thought there was intent behind lightning, they ascribed a conscious purpose to a random process. And lightning is scary as hell, so that was constant reinforcement. Source 9 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by PastorAIO: 11:55am On May 24, 2013 |
I would like to see some documentation of the arguments that passed between the religious and the scientists. I would have thought since church were, for hundreds of years, the tallest buildings in any town that if there was a thunder storm the church would be hit first. I'm surprised that people felt that the church would be the safest place from a thunder storm. Evidence ought to have proved against it. 1 Like |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Caracta(f): 11:59am On May 24, 2013 |
Seun: manifestations of the angry god of the Old Testament, violent and vengeful. Like seriously? Smh... |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Obinnau(m): 12:02pm On May 24, 2013 |
When it comes to cases like this, science and religion are usually at loggerheads, u can't really predict which is which. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by UyiIredia(m): 12:05pm On May 24, 2013 |
So what ? The point can't be over-emphasized (given antecedents as Seun's) that many prominent scientists (past and present) are Christians. 1 Like |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by maclatunji: 12:05pm On May 24, 2013 |
1 Like |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by azpekuliar: 12:10pm On May 24, 2013 |
So, Science 1 Religion 0 ... 1 Like |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Obinnau(m): 12:14pm On May 24, 2013 |
maclatunji: A Muslim's view on the matter.THE FORMATION OF HAIL, THUNDER AND LIGHTNING … He sends down mountains from the sky with hail inside them, striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills. The brightness of His lightning almost blinds the sight. (Qur'an, 24:43) The above verse refers to hail and lightning. When the formation of hail and lightning are examined, it can be seen that an important meteorological truth is being indicated in this verse. About the formation of lightning and hail, the book Meteorology Today says that a cloud becomes electrified as hail falls through a region in the cloud of supercooled droplets and ice crystals. Liquid droplets freeze and release latent heat as they collide with a hailstone. This keeps the surface of the hailstone warmer than that of the surrounding ice crystals. An important phenomenon occurs when the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal: Electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer one. In this way, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. This effect also occurs when supercooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and small pieces of positively charged ice break off. These particles, which are lighter and positively charged, are carried to the upper part of the cloud by currents of air. The hail has a negative charge now, and falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. It may be concluded from this that hail is the main factor in the formation of lightning.57 In the following verse, however, attention is drawn to the link between rain clouds and lightning, and to the order of formation, information that parallels that discovered by science: Or [their likeness is] that of a storm-cloud in the sky, full of darkness, thunder and lightning. They put their fingers in their ears against the thunderclaps, fearful of death… (Qur'an, 2:19) Rain clouds are tremendous masses covering 20 to 260 square metres (10 to 100 square miles) and reaching great vertical heights of 9,000 to 12,000 metres (30,000 to 40,000 ft.). Due to these extraordinary dimensions, the lower part of these clouds are dark. It is impossible for the Sun's rays to pass through them, because of the large quantities of water and ice particles they contain. Very little solar energy therefore reaches the Earth through the clouds, which is why the clouds appear dark to someone looking up at them.58 The stages of the formation of thunder and lightning after that darkness, mentioned in the verse, are as follows: An electrical charge forms inside the rain cloud. This comes about as a result of such processes as freezing, the division of raindrops and charge formation during contact. The accumulation of such electrical charges, when the air between becomes unable to insulate them, leads to a great spark, a discharge between the positive and negative fields. The voltage between two oppositely charged areas can reach 1 billion volts. The spark can also form within the cloud, can cross between two clouds, from a positively charged area to a negative one, or be discharged from the cloud to the ground. These sparks form dazzling lightning strikes. This sudden increase in the electrical charge along the line of lightning causes intense heat (10,000 degrees Centigrade). As a result, there is a sudden expansion of the air, which in turn causes the loud noise associated with thunder.59 The thunder glorifies His praise, as do the angels, out of fear of Him. He discharges the thunderbolts, striking with them anyone He wills. Yet still they argue about Allah when He is inexorable in His power! (Qur’an, 13:13) As has been discussed, dark layers, followed by the electrically charged sparks known as lightning, and then the loud noise called thunder, form within a rain cloud. Everything modern science has established about clouds, and has to say about the causes of thunder and lightning, is in complete accord with the descriptions in the Qur'an. 57. C. Donald Ahrens, Meteorology Today: An Introduction to Weather, Climate and Environment, 3rd ed. (St. Paul: West Publishing Company: 1988), 437. 58. Athar Lila, “The Quran and Modern Physics,” 10 December 1998, http://webhome.idirect.com/~alila/ Writings/Physics.htm. 59. Ibid. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 12:16pm On May 24, 2013 |
In June 2010, giant 6 storey tall statue of Jesus in the US was struck by lightning and burnt to the ground. A Hustler video store selling pôrnographic materials right across the street was completely undamaged. [url]m.guardiannews.com/world/2010/jun/16/touchdown-jesus-statue-burns-down[/url] Reality is no respecter of religion. 9 Likes |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 12:38pm On May 24, 2013 |
Rwligious statues are constantly being hit by lightning because they are often the highest points in the area, and they commonly dont include basic safety precautions like lightning rods. From the Washington Post Ohio's Jesus statue is just the latest religious statue to be struck by lightning. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/15/AR2010061505135.html |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by dridowu: 1:02pm On May 24, 2013 |
Science seems to have an answer to some natural thing but sha Religion will surely supercede science |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 1:19pm On May 24, 2013 |
dridowu: Science seems to have an answer to some natural thing but sha Religion will surely supercede science Wishful thinking? Every single time in history that religion and science have disagreed, religion has always lost. So I'd like to know what makes you think religion is ever going to supercede anything. 1 Like |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by PastorAIO: 1:26pm On May 24, 2013 |
Evil Brain: Rwligious statues are constantly being hit by lightning because they are often the highest points in the area, and they commonly dont include basic safety precautions like lightning rods. I find it odd that the quran should say that ( striking with it anyone He wills and averting it from anyone He wills.) Cos surely for many centuries mosques would also have been the tallest buildings in the area meaning that Allah would have often struck his places of worship. According to his will, of course. LOL!! |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 1:35pm On May 24, 2013 |
Uyi Iredia: So what ? The point can't be over-emphasized (given antecedents as Seun's) that many prominent scientists (past and present) are Christians. Are you insinuating that Christianity gave birth to scientists? Being a scientist has nothing to do with religion. Science is never led by religious beliefs or dogmas. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 1:53pm On May 24, 2013 |
Please, where is the argument? Because everything seems like an assumption on the position of religionist. Which of the religions? Like someone is ascribing the belief of a particular religion to religion in general. I need to be clarified. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 2:14pm On May 24, 2013 |
I got this from some religious book. Can't remember which one. Job 36:32 He fills his hands with lightning and commands it to strike its mark. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by alosiby: 2:19pm On May 24, 2013 |
so.........scientists are prostitutes? point taken. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 2:23pm On May 24, 2013 |
alosiby: so.........scientists are prostitutes?lol |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by mazaje(m): 2:24pm On May 24, 2013 |
When its religion vs science, science always wins. . .Science is objective while religion is subjective mythology and supposition. . .Another thing is the rainbow. . .According to the Hindus the rainbow is the necklace of some wired goddess, which she shines upon the earth after she has taken her bath when it rains, while the christian mythology says the rainbow is the covennant between some Jewish tribal diety Yahweh and his people to let them know that he will never again destroy the world with flood. . .Then came science and it showed us that rainbow is just a refraction of light when it comes in contact with water droplets in the atmosphere. Any where light is refracted against water droplets in the atmoshpere a rainbow occurs, in the beach, in your garden, in the sky any where. . .Science always wins. . . 2 Likes |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by UyiIredia(m): 2:43pm On May 24, 2013 |
musKeeto: No. Just debunking the insinuation that religion hampers science. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by ayobase(m): 3:15pm On May 24, 2013 |
Why hasn't this made it to the front page yet.....Oga Seun, pls go edit ur duplicated post biko! Science can prove anything to be through, that what Thomas wanted. PROVE IT TO ME AND I WILL BELIEVE. The fact u don't believe in God makes is so easy to counter anything SUPERNATURAL. As far as I'm concerned, God hasn't changed, but we. God created rain, sun, thunder, lightning, snow, fog and the likes, but we still have to protect ourselves from them in some ways. If God has used just simple rain (water) to wipe out the earth before, then I don't see why he can't use others to do the same, besides He is gonna use fire later. That's left for you to believe or not! I LIVE BY FAITH, and not by SIGHT! God is the greatest scientist, Engineer, Author, Builder, Architect........ A creator begat creator! Have you asked yourself why the INVENTORS are predominantly Christians or Jews? 3 Likes |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 3:17pm On May 24, 2013 |
ayobase:And you got this from where? |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by ayobase(m): 3:26pm On May 24, 2013 |
musKeeto: Can u prove me otherwise? Or u wanna call them moralists or atheists? |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Nobody: 3:31pm On May 24, 2013 |
ayobase:You made a claim, I ask for a source, and you ask me to prove you otherwise. Good Christian thinking. 3 Likes |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by FOLYKAZE(m): 3:56pm On May 24, 2013 |
I remember OLAADEGBU when he said Science is the forbidden fruit the serpent deceived Eve and Adam to eat. He made a point that science means knowledge. I see the reason now why christians are wield with superstition and day dreaming. They refuse to eat from the forbidden fruit. Their God created them back in days as ignorant, robot and zombie Indeed science (knowledge) is the forbidden fruit Ignorance and knowledge cant work together in the same sense that religion and science cant go same way. Science will ever beats Religion 1 Like |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Obinoscopy(m): 4:00pm On May 24, 2013 |
Lightening strike should not bring conflict between science and religion. This is because a lightening strike could be due to a huge potential difference between the lower base of a negatively charged cloud and a positively charged surface on earth OR it could be due to spiritual intervention. Most of the lightening strike we witness can be explained scientifically and can be prevented or neutralised with the aid of a lightening rod. But there are few cases of supernatural lightening strikes, such strikes cannot be prevented with all the lightening rods put together. 1 Like |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by maclatunji: 4:12pm On May 24, 2013 |
mazaje: When its religion vs science, science always wins. . .Science is onjective while religion is subjective mythology and supposition. . .Another thing is the rainbow. . .According to the Hindus the rainbow is the necklace of some wired goddess, which she shines uppon the earth after she has taken her bath when it rains, while the christian mythology says the rainbow is the covennant between some Jewish tribal diety Yahweh and his people to let them know that he will never again destroy the world with flood. . .Then came science and it showed us that rainbow is just a refraction of light when it comes in contact with water droplets in the atmosphere. Any where light is refracted against water droplets in the atmoshpere a rainbow occurs, in the beach, in your garden, in the sky any where. . .Science alwys wins. . . Yeah, like science gave you infant formula, only for science to realise later that breastfeeding human babies by their mothers is best as prescribed in the Qur'an 1400 years ago. God be he blessed and exalted says: (The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling) [Surat al-Baqarah, verse: 233]. http://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/miracles-for-kids/272-breastfeeding-for-two-full-years It is a fallacy to think that science is the exclusive preserve of Atheists. The Qur'an calls upon Muslims to observe around them and study the physical world, so that they might appreciate the majesty of Allah's creation. "Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the benefit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth -- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise." (Surah Al- Baqarah, 2:164) http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_101_150/quran_inspires_modern_science.htm A good Muslim should be a researcher, inherently a scientist. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 4:14pm On May 24, 2013 |
Uyi Iredia: Maybe you should help us tell those crazy people in America that teach children young earth creationism as science in their Christian private schools. Your fellow Christians are lying to kids that the loch ness monster is real (its a dinosaur!) and that the earth is only 6000 years old. They are actively dumbing down the next generation of physicists, biologists, engineers and doctors with their bronze age myths. They are doing their very best to return the world to the dark ages where superstition ruled society and critical thinking was strongly discouraged. But that's not hampering science at all. Religion doesn't hamper science. Uyi Iredia said so, therefore it must be true. 2 Likes |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by Oahray: 4:31pm On May 24, 2013 |
Come to think of it, I'v never come across anywhere in the bible that says every lightning is a manifestation of God's anger. Overzealous critics perhaps? First of all, science isn't the same as atheism. There are many religious scientists. Newton was one. It's like the HELIOCENTRIC VS GEOCENTRIC saga. The church based its geocentric position on the 'Joshua and the sun standing still' account, forgetting to recognise that it was narrated from a layman's point of view. However, that does not discredit the Bible. Not that science is any better. For example, years ago SPONTANEOUS GENERATION was considered a theory and widely accepted by scientists. The Bible said creatures reproduce (living organism from living organism) according to their kind, centuries before the 'cell theory' was established. It's obvious who won. However,it does not discredit science either. 5 Likes |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by UyiIredia(m): 4:33pm On May 24, 2013 |
Evil Brain: Whilst the religious motivation can't be ignored it's likely there are cogent arguments as to why they believe these things. |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 4:47pm On May 24, 2013 |
maclatunji: Right! Because people didn't. know that they were supposed to breastfeed babies until the Koran told them. FYI, breast milk substitutes have existed in one form or the other since prehistoric times. All science did was to make the stuff safer and more similar to real breast milk. It is a fallacy to think that science is the exclusive preserve of Atheists. Correct. And thats why no sane atheist believes or says that. The Qur'an calls upon Muslims to observe The koran also tell us that salt water and fresh water don't mix. And Muslim teachers have been teaching children this obvious rubbish in spite of the fact that its demonstrably false. Because it has to be true because the Koran says so, even though it isnt. A good Muslim should be a researcher, inherently a scientist. I totally agree. The problem is that the "true" Muslims; i.e. those who believe and obey the Koran and hadith completely and entirely; are always irrational fanatics. The good Muslim scientists are the ones who are able to ignore the crazy parts of the scriptures and willing to pursue the truth even when it contradicts their faith. Muslims like that are far too rare these days. 5 Likes |
Re: Lightning Strikes: Science vs Religion! by EvilBrain1(m): 5:11pm On May 24, 2013 |
Uyi Iredia: Maybe you could do us all a favour and go to conservapedia.com, Answers in Genesis, and any of the other dark corners of the internet where creationists lurk, to discover these "cogent arguments" and post them here for us. I'd like to hear a cogent argument about how the animals on Noah's ark were able to breathe at 8,800 metres altitude and how come they didnt freeze to death since the flood waters were high enough to cover the highest mountains including Everest. I'd like to hear a cogent argument explaining how the Loch Ness monster is real. Normally, I would go conservapedia.com myself to find those cogent arguments, but the last time I visited that site, the rubbish I read there shook my faith in humanity to its core. I'm not brave enough to enter there again. But you, Uyi Iredia, you can be the hero we need. You can boldly go where others won't. Only you can bring us. the cogent arguments! Will you accept this mission? |
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