ijawkid:

He is Gods son.......Spirit son.....

Abi Jesus no be son of God again??......smh!!!!......

Just accept the bible explanation that He is God the Son.then we won't argue anymore.

Bidam: Just accept the bible explanation that He is God the Son.then we won't argue anymore.

If the bolded dey exist for the scriptures make I die now now.....

Bidam: You did not address this issue at all..it is either you are being silly or playing dumb..don't forget other viewers would love to hear your views on this issue thanks.

Lol......get away from this thread.......ona run from the other thread come dey create another one all to dodge truth wey dey face ona........

I dare you to go back to that thread where u said I ran away from until you guys were exposed completely.....

As for benalvino him run leave benimoore......

Ona just dey waste my strenght for this thread...I get exam to write.......

You guys have no iota of respect for the Father and God of Jesus.....

ijawkid:

Lol......get away from this thread.......ona run from the other thread come dey create another one all to dodge truth wey dey face ona........

I dare you to go back to that thread where u said I ran away from until you guys were exposed completely.....

As for benalvino him run leave benimoore......

why I go run... he came asking questions I have answered I told him to go back and read... he was actually the reason I did this thread and after he read it he couldn't say anything. I believe he was convinced and understand what firstborn means in the context that passage in the bible...

@benalvino Your opening post should set thinking men thinking. God bless you.

benalvino:

why I go run... he came asking questions I have answered I told him to go back and read... he was actually the reason I did this thread and after he read it he couldn't say anything. I believe he was convinced and understand what firstborn means in the context that passage in the bible...

And then you skipped Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation......

Your wayo no get limit.......

Which yeye context u dey talk about??.......

......

Jesus is both the firstborn of Gods creation and the beginning of Gods creation.....

Combine the 2 and tell me if you explained anything......plus image of God u flop big time....go clean up your messy definition of Jesus being the image of God....

Make u dey there dey decieve yaself........

when pride and bile for JW's don fade from your eye na only u go go back go ruminate on those clear words from the scriptures....

Remember I had blocked all the scriptures you tried to wayoly use to state Jesus never had a beginning.......

Make you,bidam,itsfact and the rest chop the thread........

Until any of ona tell me wetin Jesus be beginning of Gods creative works and also image of God I no even suppose dey answer ona..........

Bidam: @benalvino Your opening post should set thinking men thinking. God bless you.

See this one wey dey stammer when them ask am why the Father na the GOD of Jesus.........

ijawkid:

See this one wey dey stammer when them ask am why the Father na the GOD of Jesus.........

and what was my reply? I said the father is the source. You don't use biology to explain spiritual truth.someone even gave an illustration that you guys always think in terms of 1+1+1 instead of 1x1x1.

Bidam: and what was my reply? I said the father is the source. You don't use biology to explain spiritual truth.someone even gave an illustration that you guys always think in terms of 1+1+1 instead of 1x1x1.

Source??...and from no where Jesus started calling him(the Father) my God in heaven just as u do too on earth.......

Ona head dey shake well well.......

And it didn't strike your memory that God created Jesus that is why he is Jesus' God and Father at the same time.....

Please let everybody read bernimoores reply to benalvino and tell me if benalvino was not crushed on the last thread only coming here to yap about his own subjective definition of firstborn while evading Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation and identified as the wisdom mentioned in proverbs 8:22-30 which was created,formed,born,brought forth,produced.....




Did God have to create his word?
yes, his word testifies to that,
see it
Proverbs 8:22-24
New International Version
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first
of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23[b]I was formed long ages ago[/b]
at the very beginning, when the world came
to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I
was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing
with water;
who is speaking here, lets see
in verse 12 of same prov 8,
it started like the ' i wisdom' claims the
passage,
and who is beign reffered to as wisdom
personified' in the bible, jesus christ,
lets see that;
1 Corinthians 1:30
New King James Version
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who
became for us wisdom from God—and
righteousness and sanctification and
redemption—
1 Corinthians 2:7
New King James Version
7 But we speak the wisdom of God [/b]in a
mystery, the hidden wisdom which God
ordained before the ages for our glory,
wisdom speaks;
proverb 8:22
New International Version
" The LORD brought me forth as the first
of his works, before his deeds of old;
New Living Translation
" The LORD formed me from the
beginning, before he created anything else.
English Standard Version
“The LORD possessed me at the beginning
of his work, the first of his acts of old.
The LORD made me at the [b]beginning of His
creation, before His works of long ago.
International Standard Version
" The LORD made me as he began his
planning, before his ancient activity
commenced.
NET Bible
The LORD created me as the beginning
of his works, before his deeds of long
ago.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the
beginning of his creation and from before
all of his works.”

ijawkid:

Source??...and from no where Jesus started calling him(the Father) my God in heaven just as u do too on earth.......

Ona head dey shake well well.......

And it didn't strike your memory that God created Jesus that is why he is Jesus' God and Father at the same time.....

you still are yet to tell us how Jesus was created in heaven whether as a man like adam or an angel. you just twisted Paul letter out of context to mean what he didn't even say..scriptures interpret scriptures..not just one verse out of context.

Bidam: you still are yet to tell us how Jesus was created in heaven whether as a man like adam or an angel. you just twisted Paul letter out of context to mean what he didn't even say..scriptures interpret scriptures..not just one verse out of context.

And what do you think I've been doing on this thread??....you think I've been using greek mythology to interprete verses..........

I want you guys to take a look at the bold definition of what it means when it is said Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation.......

Instead of this hide and seek face the truth and move ahead....

.........

Should in case anyone is wondering how wisdom in verse 23 and 24 is born or brought forth please read psalm 90:2 and see what it means.... the earth and the universe were born,brought forth,created,formed and so was Jesus but him(Jesus) being the first of Gods creative works... ...

New International Version
(©2011)
Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the whole
world, from everlasting to
everlasting you are God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the mountains were born,
before you gave birth to the earth
and the world, from beginning to
end, you are God.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
Before the mountains were
brought forth, or ever you had
formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting
you are God.



Ona dey see am??.......

.......

My business with ona don finish....

If ona like make ona accept if ona like make ona repudiate am....na ona business......

I don leave the thread for ona.....

Should in case anyone is wondering how wisdom in verse 23 and 24 is born or brought forth please read psalm 90:2 and see what it means.... the earth and the universe were born,brought forth,created,formed and so was Jesus but him(Jesus) being the first of Gods creative works... ...

New International Version
(©2011)
Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the whole
world, from everlasting to
everlasting you are God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the mountains were born,
before you gave birth to the earth
and the world, from beginning to
end, you are God.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
Before the mountains were
brought forth, or ever you had
formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting
you are God.



Ona dey see am??.......

.......

My business with ona don finish....

If ona like make ona accept if ona like make ona repudiate am....na ona business......

I don leave the thread for ona.....

ijawkid: Please let everybody read bernimoores reply to benalvino and tell me if benalvino was not crushed on the last thread only coming here to yap about his own subjective definition of firstborn while evading Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation and identified as the wisdom mentioned in proverbs 8:22-30 which was created,formed,born,brought forth,produced.....




Did God have to create his word?
yes, his word testifies to that,
see it
Proverbs 8:22-24
New International Version
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first
of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23[b]I was formed long ages ago[/b]
at the very beginning, when the world came
to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I
was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing
with water;
who is speaking here, lets see
in verse 12 of same prov 8,
it started like the ' i wisdom' claims the
passage,
and who is beign reffered to as wisdom
personified' in the bible, jesus christ,
lets see that;
1 Corinthians 1:30
New King James Version
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who
became for us wisdom from God—and
righteousness and sanctification and
redemption—
1 Corinthians 2:7
New King James Version
7 But we speak the wisdom of God [/b]in a
mystery, the hidden wisdom which God
ordained before the ages for our glory,
wisdom speaks;
proverb 8:22
New International Version
" The LORD brought me forth as the first
of his works, before his deeds of old;
New Living Translation
" The LORD formed me from the
beginning, before he created anything else.
English Standard Version
“The LORD possessed me at the beginning
of his work, the first of his acts of old.
The LORD made me at the [b]beginning of His
creation, before His works of long ago.
International Standard Version
" The LORD made me as he began his
planning, before his ancient activity
commenced.
NET Bible
The LORD created me as the beginning
of his works, before his deeds of long
ago.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the
beginning of his creation and from before
all of his works.”

Everything you quoted is still pointing the validty of what we have been telling you all along that you cannot separate God from his wisdom, knowledge and power..three different substance but one entity(source) God is the source of wisdom(Christ)that is never a creation .It is through wisdom(Jesus) that heaven and earth were created with other creatures .And that is why Jesus always make the statement "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE".“Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.” (John 14:6-10). As a human being where does your wisdom lies? is it in your body? or your mind?

Bidam: Everything you quoted is still pointing the validty of what we have been telling you all along that you cannot separate God from his wisdom, knowledge and power..three different substance but one entity(source) God is the source of wisdom(Christ)that is never a creation .It is through wisdom(Jesus) that heaven and earth were created with other creatures .And that is why Jesus always make the statement "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE".“Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.” (John 14:6-10). As a human being where does your wisdom lies? is it in your body? or your mind?

We are all also in the Father and so possess Godly wisdom....we are all one with Jesus just as Jesus is one with the Father.......but Jesus is that number one progeny of GOD who has displayed Gods wisdom to the fullest and perfectly,the greater solomon...............

Proverbs has perfectly told us this wisdom was created.......Jesus had a beginning......that is just my aim on this thread....all the definitions that I have been projecting were perfectly defined in proverbs and all applying to Jesus to make john 1:1,colossians 1:15,revelation 3:14,john 6:57,1 corinthians 8:6 all ironed out and understood....

Chikena........

So no rigmaroling........

Bidam you see he is desperately taking words out of context and that's what they always do.
Everyone reading should be asking if there was a time God was without wisdom so without wisdom where did he get the wisdom to create wisdom?

How about the question he never answers... Who is prudence that wisdom dwells with?

Why did she(wisdom) cry out loud?
Which table did she(wisdom) set?

All this question he never answers in addition to if Jesus was created as a:
Man
Angel
A god
His bible say a god and there believes also says a angel but him no wan answer.

1: God created his wisdom when he was without wisdom

2: God created his WORD when he was without WORD

3: GOD use his word for every creation, not a single thing was made without the Word.

Therefore the word created him self?
no matter what you see even In the bible you won't accept it exam they put it in magazine or reasoning from the scriptures... Why not just through the bible away then. I am really sceptical now. Lol

benalvino: Bidam you see he is desperately taking words out of context and that's what they always do.
Everyone reading should be asking if there was a time God was without wisdom so without wisdom where did he get the wisdom to create wisdom?

How about the question he never answers... Who is prudence that wisdom dwells with?

Why did she(wisdom) cry out loud?
Which table did she(wisdom) set?

All this question he never answers in addition to if Jesus was created as a:
Man
Angel
A god
His bible say a god and there believes also says a angel but him no wan answer.

1: God created his wisdom when he was without wisdom

2: God created his WORD when he was without WORD

3: GOD use his word for every creation, not a single thing was made without the Word.

Therefore the word created him self?
no matter what you see even In the bible you won't accept it exam they put it in magazine or reasoning from the scriptures... Why not just through the bible away then. I am really sceptical now. Lol

Your questions are childish and should be ignored from hence forth........

You wanted to know if Jesus had a beginning or if he was created,an answer has been provided...a perfect one at that........now you ask if God was without wisdom before he created wisdom...isn't it obvious that the wisdom isn't Gods intrinsic wisdom?? .........

I remember I once asked you....

When it is said the scriptures is the word of GOD what does it mean??.....I can't remember if you ever gave me an answer..............


Well my job here is done......I shake my feet off this thread ...........

ijawkid:

Your questions are childish and should be ignored from hence forth........

You wanted to know if Jesus had a beginning or if he was created,an answer has been provided...a perfect one at that........now you ask if God was without wisdom before he created wisdom...isn't it obvious that the wisdom isn't Gods intrinsic wisdom?? .........

I remember I once asked you....

When it is said the scriptures is the word of GOD what does it mean??.....I can't remember if you ever gave me an answer..............


Well my job here is done......I shake my feet off this thread ...........

Your problem is that you try to run away from the product of your belief... I mean the contradictions. Everyone watching this thread will know the question I just ask is the contradiction of what you believe...

Was there a time God was without wisdom? Till you answer this question your belief about proverb is not taken seriously...

can't you see that any time you try to twist scripture to fit your doctrine it contradict many things?

John 1:1 says the WORD is GOD you...
Instead of you to answer my question you are telling me if I know what the WORD of GOD is... Go to John 1:1...
Am still waiting for you to tell me how Your God was without wisdom and how he manage to create wisdom without wisdom. colossians made it clear that every creature every thing was made through the WORD and not a single thing has been made without the WORD...
Going by your stands then JESUS created him self... This are the dilemmas you can't run away from.

benalvino:

Your problem is that you try to run away from the product of your belief... I mean the contradictions. Everyone watching this thread will know the question I just ask is the contradiction of what you believe...

Was there a time God was without wisdom? Till you answer this question your belief about proverb is not taken seriously...

can't you see that any time you try to twist scripture to fit your doctrine it contradict many things?

John 1:1 says the WORD is GOD you...
Instead of you to answer my question you are telling me if I know what the WORD of GOD is... Go to John 1:1...
Am still waiting for you to tell me how Your God was without wisdom and how he manage to create wisdom without wisdom. colossians made it clear that every creature every thing was made through the WORD and not a single thing has been made without the WORD...
Going by your stands then JESUS created him self... This are the dilemmas you can't run away from.

Lol.........keep drowning in your myseries.......

Oya answer me.......I want to try to help you understand what it means when Jesus is called the word of God.......

That is why I asked you an important question which I need your answers to.....

Why is the bible called the word of GOD or Gods word....

And may I ask you right now Jesus still bears the name word of GOD and we all know he is a person who has been exalted by GOD as king.......is Jesus not a person in heaven??.....is he in Gods mouth??.....

Please answer the first question I asked and stop this run arounds........

My happiness is you have seen that the subject under consideration was CREATED..........now answer my questions and let's close this thread......

Revelation 19:13-15
New International Version (NIV)
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and
his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies
of heaven were following him, riding on white
horses and dressed in fine linen, white and
clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp
sword with which to strike down the nations.
“He will rule them with an iron scepter.” [a] He
treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath
of God Almighty.



Please is Jesus mere words in Gods mouth or a person??.........

I want you to put on your thinking caps and for once learn discreetly........

Do you see the names Jesus bears??.......

1..Word of God
2..King of kings

Is this not a person??.....

......

Let's not even go into how God came into existence because that's where you are driving this conversation into.To begin with God is the existence Himself and there is no better explanation given that of John 1.The bible said His Word was Himself you either accept this explanation or call God a liar you don't reason that with human wisdom.His Word was inseparable from Him and His Word was with Him from the start. Everything that exist came into being through the Word of God; no other source of life exists. In His WORD was life, and this life manifested the knowledge of God and His kingdom to the darkened and confused minds of humanity.We all know that this Word has to become Flesh and dwell among men but it is rather unfortunate that though the light of this knowledge shines brightly those who choose to remain in a darkened state cannot see.It all boils down to choices really.

Bidam: Let's not even go into how God came into existence because that's where you are driving this conversation into.To begin with God is the existence Himself and there is no better explanation given that of John 1.The bible said His Word was Himself you either accept this explanation or call God a liar you don't reason that with human wisdom.His Word was inseparable from Him and His Word was with Him from the start. Everything that exist came into being through the Word of God; no other source of life exists. In His WORD was life, and this life manifested the knowledge of God and His kingdom to the darkened and confused minds of humanity.We all know that this Word has to become Flesh and dwell among men but it is rather unfortunate that though the light of this knowledge shines brightly those who choose to remain in a darkened state cannot see.It all boils down to choices really.

The scriptures says the word was WITH GOD

Proverbs have explicitly shown how these word of God,wisdom from God who is Jesus Christ was with GOD and was engaged in his Fathers creative works after he himself was created first...........

Now what you should be asking is why Jesus is called the word of GOD.......

Ask and answers would be provided........

Read the scriptures thorughly and see why Jesus is called the word of GOD.......

I hope you read revelation 19:13-15.......

Jesus is called that name for a reason and not because he was inside the stomach of God or in Gods wind pipe........

ijawkid: Revelation 19:13-15
New International Version (NIV)
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and
his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies
of heaven were following him, riding on white
horses and dressed in fine linen, white and
clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp
sword with which to strike down the nations.
“He will rule them with an iron scepter.” [a] He
treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath
of God Almighty.



Please is Jesus mere words in Gods mouth or a person??.........

I want you to put on your thinking caps and for once learn discreetly........

Do you see the names Jesus bears??.......

1..Word of God
2..King of kings

Is this not a person??.....

......

From time we have told you that Jesus is a person... I don't know what your point is.
You are making your self look desperate all the time... the father is also person... angel Gabriel is also person.
if I say you ask dumb question you will think am just dodging the question...
why is it that any time I ask you a question you just ask another question without answering me?

again
is Jesus a
man
angel
or a god

you don't ever want to answer this. he is the Only Begotten Son we all know that and you and I even satan are all sons of God. but the question is... is he a man, a angel or a god?

the scriptures is God's word written by men... But it is not the WORD in john 1:1 that became flesh... God never had a beginning and there was no time he didn't have is WORD or WISDOM. it was because adam and eve sinned that is why you have Genesis to revelation... before they sinned Through the WORD he created everything. And the bible clearly Stated the WORD is GOD.

and again I will keep saying this the fact that the watchtower alter the bible in various places that contradicts their beliefs is a good evidence of their motive. the question arise then... why add words to the bible?

he also Bears GOD.
like countless verses says also that WORD became Flesh.

Why is the bible called the word of GOD or Gods word....

And may I ask you right now Jesus still bears the name word of GOD and we all know he is a person who has been exalted by GOD as king.......is Jesus not a person in heaven??.....is he in Gods mouth??.....

I have already answered why the bible is called word of God... the Question is did the bible became flesh?

Jesus is not just a person you can belittle him all you want but he is GOD. How about you read John 1:1 to 14.
you ask how Jesus is the image of God

Jesus is the image of the invisible God

1 Hebrews 1:3 -- The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

2 Corinthians 4:4 -- The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

3 Colossians 1:15 -- He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

if you cant grasp this passages then you cant grab anything.

as you can see all along we have been telling you Jesus is a person
only for you to come back and ask is he not a person... I believe you cant think out of the box. not just you even my cousin.
all I see is steady and dumb question being ask just to dodge the ones you were asked. when Jesus call him self "I Am"... your bible translate it as "I have been" and many more verse where corrupted when Jesus calling him self God... when people worship Jesus your bible change to "obeisance" all this is to strip Jesus away from his deity.

still you argument land you in a pool of questions

1: Jesus is created and he created all things that means he created him self?
WTBS knows that so they insert the word [other]

2: Was there a time God was without wisdom?

Benjamin:

From time we have told you that Jesus is a person... I don't know what your point is.
You are making your self look desperate all the time... the father is also person... angel Gabriel is also person.
if I say you ask dumb question you will think am just dodging the question...
why is it that any time I ask you a question you just ask another question without answering me?

again
is Jesus a
man
angel
or a god

you don't ever want to answer this. he is the Only Begotten Son we all know that and you and I even satan are all sons of God. but the question is... is he a man, a angel or a god?

This your question would forever remain dumb......

benalvino:

the scriptures is God's word written by men... But it is not the WORD in john 1:1 that became flesh... God never had a beginning and there was no time he didn't have is WORD or WISDOM. it was because adam and eve sinned that is why you have Genesis to revelation... before they sinned Through the WORD he created everything. And the bible clearly Stated the WORD is GOD.

Oh the scriptures is Gods written word,but at the same time Gods word right??.....

I want you to get the sense of what it means when Jesus is named Gods word or the word of God....and it seems you aint getting it......

Jesus being called Gods word and wisdom is not literally that it is Gods intrinsic wisdom or words from his mouth or Gods literal words??................

That is why I want you to tell me what the bible is doing as Gods word....until you get the sense you would keep asking this same yamayama question........

Jesus is still called the word of God in heaven...is he in Gods mouth??....

benalvino:

and again I will keep saying this the fact that the watchtower alter the bible in various places that contradicts their beliefs is a good evidence of their motive. the question arise then... why add words to the bible?

he also Bears GOD.
like countless verses says also that WORD became Flesh.

Ask the KJV why they also added to the scriptures before you open your mouth and blame the watchtower......why are you even bothered about the watchtower sef.......na from NWT I dey quote from??......

And Yes the word of God became flesh.....not Gods physical spoken words......understand why Jesus is named Gods word ............

benalvino:

I have already answered why the bible is called word of God... the Question is did the bible became flesh?

I want you to give me the reason why the bible is called Gods word.....abeg just give me the reason.........I need the reason why the bible is called Gods word like the way Jesus is called......

benalvino:

Jesus is not just a person you can belittle him all you want but he is GOD. How about you read John 1:1 to 14.
you ask how Jesus is the image of God

But he is a person na........na you dey belittle the God and Father of Jesus.......

Is Jesus just the mere words of God in heaven now as we speak...is he not a seperate person from his God??.......

benalvino:

Jesus is the image of the invisible God

1 Hebrews 1:3 -- The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

So you now know what Jesus being the image of God means........now from the bebrews you quoted is Jesus the God he is an exact representation of??

Now please answer why we are also the image of God??........

If I say you are a carbon copy of your Father what does it mean??.......

Simple english has now turned to mystery to trinitarians...

benalvino:

2 Corinthians 4:4 -- The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

3 Colossians 1:15 -- He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

if you cant grasp this passages then you cant grab anything.

No you are the on not grabbing anything.......

How can you be an or the image of God and not be a creation of God??....

Na you wey dey decieve yourself for here.......

benalvino:

as you can see all along we have been telling you Jesus is a person
only for you to come back and ask is he not a person... I believe you cant think out of the box. not just you even my cousin.
all I see is steady and dumb question being ask just to dodge the ones you were asked. when Jesus call him self "I Am"... your bible translate it as "I have been" and many more verse where corrupted when Jesus calling him self God... when people worship Jesus your bible change to "obeisance" all this is to strip Jesus away from his deity.

We didn't dodge we explained tightly....

And Jesus in this I am state did not know when the end would come but only The Father the one GOD knew.........

Please rectify your thoughts and allign them to the scriptures........


I would show you translations that use words like bow down,revere,adore instead of worship just like the NWT......

Your fixation on the NWT is becoming too much.........

I am not even quoting from it.....

benalvino:

still you argument land you in a pool of questions

1: Jesus is created and he created all things that means he created him self?
WTBS knows that so they insert the word [other]

2: Was there a time God was without wisdom?

Lmao.........watchtower is your problem.....let it be as u have chosen to let it be.........

Please have you accepted that this wisdom from God which is Jesus was created??......

You are fighting with serious truth here....

I feel like leaving this thread but u always tempt me to come back.......

Analysis PROVERBS 8:22-26
Proverbs 8:22-25 is an Old Testament passage ijawkid use to defend the created Jesus theory. It shall be demonstrated that this theory cannot be found in the passage. First, the entire argument rests on a presupposition. That is, it is assumed that Jesus is the "Wisdom" being mentioned here. The cross-reference (1 Cor. 1:24) is unrelated to Proverbs 8 (keep in mind that Proverbs is not a prophetic book but a book on wisdom - literally). To demonstrate its irrelevance to 1 Cor. 1:24, note that Jesus is also called the "power" of God. But Romans 1:20 calls the power of God eternal! Therefore, Jesus is eternal and not created. Such a relation is unfounded even though the latter citation suggests my position. Second, the ijawkid interpretation reads more into the wording then what is actually there. The texts says "brought forth" and not "created." That "brought forth" does not necessarily entail creation can be seen in texts such as Genesis 1:21; 24:23; 30:39; 40:10; Exodus 29:46; and Psalms 105:43. The connotation of "brought forth" in these texts is clearly "to bring out" or "to reveal." Thus it makes more sense in this context to read: "when there were no depths, I was revealed" (Prov. 8:24). It is simply a more likely translation. Besides, it would be absurd to conceive of a time when God was without wisdom. The passage must be referring to a revelation of that which is already there. Lastly, the word for "wisdom" in Proverbs 8 is in a feminine gender. Consider that Proverbs 7:4 calls wisdom "sister." It should also be mentioned that Jesus must live with someone named "prudence" (v. 12) in a house with seven pillars (9:1)! So the idea of Christ being mentioned here is incredible and unfounded, to say the least.

I still haven't gotten any answers whatsoever from ijawkid concerning prudence wisdom live with and also why wisdom cry in the streets, which house wisdom lived in. instead of him to answer the question he will employ evasive maneuver to dodge it by asking me question like is Jesus not a person despite telling him gazillion times that Jesus is a person distinct from the father.

benalvino: Analysis PROVERBS 8:22-26
Proverbs 8:22-25 is an Old Testament passage ijawkid use to defend the created Jesus theory. It shall be demonstrated that this theory cannot be found in the passage. First, the entire argument rests on a presupposition. That is, it is assumed that Jesus is the "Wisdom" being mentioned here. The cross-reference (1 Cor. 1:24) is unrelated to Proverbs 8 (keep in mind that Proverbs is not a prophetic book but a book on wisdom - literally). To demonstrate its irrelevance to 1 Cor. 1:24, note that Jesus is also called the "power" of God. But Romans 1:20 calls the power of God eternal! Therefore, Jesus is eternal and not created. Such a relation is unfounded even though the latter citation suggests my position. Second, the ijawkid interpretation reads more into the wording then what is actually there. The texts says "brought forth" and not "created." That "brought forth" does not necessarily entail creation can be seen in texts such as Genesis 1:21; 24:23; 30:39; 40:10; Exodus 29:46; and Psalms 105:43. The connotation of "brought forth" in these texts is clearly "to bring out" or "to reveal." Thus it makes more sense in this context to read: "when there were no depths, I was revealed" (Prov. 8:24). It is simply a more likely translation. Besides, it would be absurd to conceive of a time when God was without wisdom. The passage must be referring to a revelation of that which is already there. Lastly, the word for "wisdom" in Proverbs 8 is in a feminine gender. Consider that Proverbs 7:4 calls wisdom "sister." It should also be mentioned that Jesus must live with someone named "prudence" (v. 12) in a house with seven pillars (9:1)! So the idea of Christ being mentioned here is incredible and unfounded, to say the least.

I still haven't gotten any answers whatsoever from ijawkid concerning prudence wisdom live with and also why wisdom cry in the streets, which house wisdom lived in. instead of him to answer the question he will employ evasive maneuver to dodge it by asking me question like is Jesus not a person despite telling him gazillion times that Jesus is a person distinct from the father.

Lmao......

You refused to quote psalms 90;2 to see brought forth......and to see where the mountains and the universe was born and made....

You are a day light fraud......



At proverbs 8:24 wisdom says I was born........

I was born......

You act like proverbs was talking about going to the market or doing some other thing....

Proverbs 8:22-30 talks about creation.....

Wisdom said he was the beginning of Gods creative works and that before the mountains came into existence he was born......

You and the site you copied this thing from are the frauds........

And yes he says the book of proverbs isn't a prophetic book....

I guess the psalms is also a prophetic book that contains info's about the son of GOD..........

Lmao.......

Look at one of the scriptures you quoted that shot you in the foot....

Genesis 1:21....

New International Version
(©2011)
So God created the great
creatures of the sea and every
living thing with which the water
teems and that moves about in it,
according to their kinds, and every
winged bird according to its kind.
And God saw that it was good.


New Living Translation (©2007)
So God created great sea
creatures and every living thing
that scurries and swarms in the
water, and every sort of bird--
each producing offspring of the
same kind. And God saw that it
was good.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
So God created the great sea
creatures and every living
creature that moves, with which
the waters swarm, according to
their kinds, and every winged bird
according to its kind. And God saw
that it was good.

ijawkid:
This your question would forever remain dumb......


Oh the scriptures is Gods written word,but at the same time Gods word right??.....

I want you to get the sense of what it means when Jesus is named Gods word or the word of God....and it seems you aint getting it......

Jesus being called Gods word and wisdom is not literally that it is Gods intrinsic wisdom or words from his mouth or Gods literal words??................

That is why I want you to tell me what the bible is doing as Gods word....until you get the sense you would keep asking this same yamayama question........

Jesus is still called the word of God in heaven...is he in Gods mouth??....


Ask the KJV why they also added to the scriptures before you open your mouth and blame the watchtower......why are you even bothered about the watchtower sef.......na from NWT I dey quote from??......

And Yes the word of God became flesh.....not Gods physical spoken words......understand why Jesus is named Gods word ............



I want you to give me the reason why the bible is called Gods word.....abeg just give me the reason.........I need the reason why the bible is called Gods word like the way Jesus is called......


But he is a person na........na you dey belittle the God and Father of Jesus.......

Is Jesus just the mere words of God in heaven now as we speak...is he not a seperate person from his God??.......



So you now know what Jesus being the image of God means........now from the bebrews you quoted is Jesus the God he is an exact representation of??

Now please answer why we are also the image of God??........

If I say you are a carbon copy of your Father what does it mean??.......

Simple english has now turned to mystery to trinitarians...



No you are the on not grabbing anything.......

How can you be an or the image of God and not be a creation of God??....

Na you wey dey decieve yourself for here.......




We didn't dodge we explained tightly....

And Jesus in this I am state did not know when the end would come but only The Father the one GOD knew.........

Please rectify your thoughts and allign them to the scriptures........


I would show you translations that use words like bow down,revere,adore instead of worship just like the NWT......

Your fixation on the NWT is becoming too much.........

I am not even quoting from it.....


Lmao.........watchtower is your problem.....let it be as u have chosen to let it be.........

Please have you accepted that this wisdom from God which is Jesus was created??......

You are fighting with serious truth here....

I feel like leaving this thread but u always tempt me to come back.......

you want to leave cause you cant answer it... watchtower is not my problem but it their teaching you are clinging on and if am arguing with you am arguing with them also... just like you are arguing with me you are arguing with the trinity doctrine.

just choose one of the question its not dumb... either you go man angel or a god... you people already choose a god in your bible and also teach angel... am just telling you to pick one of what you already believe and you say the question is dumb. for 3 days been asking this question just for u to pick one no time u ever picked.

the authors of the scriptures are people like Paul, peter etc... the Word of GOD is what he used to Create everything... Now everything was created before the bible or Gospel of God came to be... I just they fear you for always finding a reason not to accept truth.

Really? He is the word of God from start and became flesh why should he be stopped calling the word?
you are bringing another inferior argument to Change the fact that Jesus is the word of God abi?
you tried to change the meaning of Worship earlier too...

I will challenge you to bring out the evidence of words they added to the bible. there are loads of Unitarian religion who go against the trinity... I don't know any that makes their own bible and start inserting words in it.

abeg is Jesus written? or a person? why you they bring silly questions all the time... the Bible is written word of God... in fact not everything that is in the bible is God's word... some of them are letters etc. I just don't understand you. in you put Jesus and the bible in same sense that means Jesus was written or is a drawing in a book and he died for us as a paper and ink.

we always tell you he is person... you are only being persistence you bring silly arguments to run from truth.

am not a fool we are made in is image but how does the bible describe Jesus? it says he is the 1 Hebrews 1:3 -- The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being are you the exact representation of God's being?

simple English told you exact representation of God being means? you they make me fear really. I should show you some more
The exact representation of God's being

This is an awesome statement. Jesus exactly fits who God is. Look at the words. "Exact representation" (NIV), "exact imprint" (NRSV), and "express image" (KJV) is charaktēr, "something produced as a representation, reproduction,"6 "the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every aspect" (such as a facsimile). The phrase spells out what Jesus was the exact representation of, that is, God's essential nature. "Being" (NIV, NRSV) and "person" (KJV) translate hupostasis, "the essential or basic structure or nature of an entity, substantial nature, essence, actual being, reality."
"I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols." (Isaiah 42:

my fixation in NWT is not becoming serious am only showing what they are trying to hide... and again I tell you no matter what you should defend your beliefs when questioned if I say truth about the bible JW use because they are trying to teach what you should do is tell me why they put that and give me reason why it is wise to put the words there instead of you to turn against me and say am attacking it. that is the bible you people use and am asking why are they changing words are adding their own words?

Revelation 22:18-19 ESV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2 ESV
You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you.

Proverbs 30:5-6 ESV
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.


you are not quoting from it I know the question is what are their motives in changing words... you see what the bible says about adding to the bible?

try and answer the questions stop trying to run away from it.

ijawkid:

Lmao......

You refused to quote psalms 90;2 to see brought forth......and to see where the mountains and the universe was born and made....

You are a day light fraud......



At proverbs 8:24 wisdom says I was born........

I was born......

You act like proverbs was talking about going to the market or doing some other thing....

Proverbs 8:22-30 talks about creation.....

Wisdom said he was the beginning of Gods creative works and that before the mountains came into existence he was born......

You and the site you copied this thing from are the frauds........

abeg you psalms 90;2
Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. 3You turn man to destruction; and say, Return, you children of men....
have nothing to do with proverbs read psalm psalms 90;1-3 you always take words out of context all the time na you go first call me fraud.

the questions you didn't answer still Who is prudence why did wisdom cry... how can GOD not have wisdom?

lol and you said created abi?
New International Version (© 2011)
"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
King James Bible
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

American Standard Version
Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.

Young's Literal Translation
Jehovah possessed me -- the beginning of His way, Before His works since then.
Tell me how GOD create wisdom without wisdom you no they answer you just they repeat same question with rephrasing.

i agree i am fraud because i am questioning what you believe in abi? same way you jump on peoples neck about birthdays and Christmas etc.