shdemidemi: good.. the bible then says '2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'. The bible says you are dead to the law that condemns you to sin, it is impossible for me to be in Christ and be a sinner at the same time. I am now moved by the will of God through His Spirit by the word of God.

But come ooo, is that of the spirit not law also? What I see here is the "law of the spirit" which if transgressed also amounts to sin. Maybe our problem here is a lack of understanding of what the "law of the spirit (christ) is. Can we please throw more light on this? I believe that will clarify matters on wether fornication and the like are sin.

ralfo85:

But come ooo, is that of the spirit not law also? What I see here is the "law of the spirit" which if transgressed also amounts to sin. Maybe our problem here is a lack of understanding of what the "law of the spirit (christ) is. Can we please throw more light on this? I believe that will clarify matters on wether fornication and the like are sin.

Thank you my brother..i wonder which law of the spirit these guy is talking about. he is actually misinterpreting Paul's letters. I will explain in details later..am busy right now.

shdemidemi:

1 cor 7
1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4

This is not a law but an advice to curb what was going on in this particular church in Corinth. Without the law, you have to love your neighbour more than you love yourself, if you love you would not gravitate towards immoral things anyway.

1 corinthians 7 has got everybody misled; "It is good for a man not to touch a woman...", Here touch does not mean sex; it means: to hold-on to, or cling to a woman. (A bible dictionary would offer some help here) In other words to marry. Some bible translations render touch as marry, others as se.xual relations. Virtually everybody misunderstands this as sex.

Now not marrying does not mean not having s.ex. Paul says: it is good not to marry.., but because of s.exual immorality let every man stick with his wife and every woman with her husband... What does this mean then? It implies that the church is corinth were actually sharing sex partners with one another, but there was a lot of jealousy and bitterness going on as a result of this se.xual liberty. It is these negative emotions that constitute fornication in a se.xual relationship. Remember I defined fornication as unnatural sex or sex without consent(with jealousy and bitterness, as a result of someone else having access to their wife\husband). So Paul advises: It is better to marry and have her/him to yourself only than to share and continue to burn with passion(negative emotions: jealousy, bitterness, etc), or you stay unmarried and still have s.ex. There is never a place where Paul urges people to go without se.x.

LOL, Jesus died so we could sin freely?

Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! [/b]We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

Romans 6:11-14 "11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 [b]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."

Romans 3:31 "31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Matthew 5:17-20 "17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

1 John 1:8-10 "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Jacob 5:16 "16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."

I think the verses above explain themselves with regard to sin.

I am shocked by some of the doctrines i have read here. All the people who were holy observed the law. No-one Jew or Gentile was ever praised for living a lawless life. If you read Acts 10 you will see that it was Holy living that led Corneluis to have favor with God.

Acts 10:1-2 "At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly."

Acts 10:34-35 "34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."

God has since the beginning looked with favour with people who obey his law and not looked at other factors. Even the chosen people were punished when they broke the law.

Romans 2:6-16 "6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

At the end, all will be judged, those living under the law will be judged according to the law. Those living outside the law will be judged outside the law according to their conscience.

I think we should be more honest and stop being selective in how we apply scripture in order to accommodate our worldly desires and lifestyles.

I sometimes feel it is pointless to post on forums as people sometimes just post to troll. I have taken my time to write this for the benefit of anyone who finds this useful.

Thank you brother timothycel you've said it all.

In stark contrast to a God who meets our every lust and craving, we have a God who repeatedly told us to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow our crucified Lord. We have a God who says:

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

Romans 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

Galatians 5:16-17 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit,

Ephesians 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth

And on and on we could go.

@timothycel

There is a thin line between grace and the law. If you go by what you are inferring, you would contradict yourself when you keep on reading the book of Romans thus it will become confusing. I am not totally in support with what the other brethren is saying but at the same time the bible says the believer has two natures constantly warring against each other
1 the old sin nature of sin
2 the new nature of righteousness

Therefore, it is very possible for a believer to fall into what we call sin cos the body is naturally comfortable with the sin nature cos it is the carrier of the nature. A believer needs a relationship with God to feed the new nature which gradually outweighs the old nature by constant hearing and studying of the word of faith.

My question to you is- On the day of Passover when the children of Israel were told to cover their houses with the blood of the lamb for the spirit of death to elude them
1)If Pharaoh's family were to cover their house with the blood of the lamb, would the spirit of death still kill them?

Bidam: In stark contrast to a God who meets our every lust and craving, we have a God who repeatedly told us to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow our crucified Lord. We have a God who says:

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

Romans 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Galatians 5:16-17 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit,

Ephesians 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth

And on and on we could go.

Stop jumping every where my friend, I want you to understand whatthe sin nature is first, it is present in every believer as long as we live in this body. We can not totally annihilate or destroy it totally as long as we live in this body, we can compress it to the minimum through constant relationship and understanding of the word of God.

@ bidam
my question to you are
1, are Christians going to be around for the tribulation age?
2, would Christ come to pick the church apart from the Jews or would he come for the church and the jews together?

shdemidemi:

Stop jumping every where my friend, I want you to understand with the sin nature is first, it is present in every believer as long as we live in this body. We can not totally annihilate or destroy it totally as long as we live in this body, we can compress it to the minimum through constant relationship and understanding of the word of God.

Hahahahahaha..very funny you should say that. Did i not give you a blow by blow account of that in the thread awareness of sin by annyplenty? Did you address the valid points i made? Or you just want to argue for arguing sake.

answer my questions please.

shdemidemi: answer my questions please.

my response will be lengthy and i don't have time now. be patient na

ok, take your time bro

shdemidemi: @ bidam
my question to you are
1, are Christians going to be around for the tribulation age?
2, would Christ come to pick the church apart from the Jews or would he come for the church and the jews together?

Very interesting questionS that requires indept study of the bible and which will take more time to discuss abeg.I also believe something related to this have been exhaustively dealt with here on nairaland.try to find it and lets discuss it there cos am no expert on tribulation messages. The first question is ofcos a NO if you are referring to Christian Jews and gentiles in Christ.The second question is also related to the first if you mean rapture or pre tribulation period.Also take this scripture into consideration.Rev 2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Rev 3:9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.". Why do you think Christ is talking about the Jews here? Please you need to study scriptures before arriving at a conclusion. i mean study study and study..Revelations are not found in a day or in one article written by a so called bible scholar Revelation of Christ is actually progressive and not limited to one man.

shdemidemi:

There is nothing like a sin in the dictionary of a believer of the gospel of Christ. Every believer is a work in progress, you learn from you mistakes while in a relationship with God. You can never know what God is doing at any point in time. We would not be saved if there was no Judas to betray Christ.

shdemidemi: good.. the bible then says '2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'. The bible says you are dead to the law that condemns you to sin, it is impossible for me to be in Christ and be a sinner at the same time. I am now moved by the will of God through His Spirit by the word of God.

shdemidemi I dont think you have provided an honest response to my post. The above 2 points are in Direct contradiction to 1 John 1 & Jacob 5 as I pointed out in my previous post. You have not explained this glaring contradiction or perhaps retracted your previous statements.

We know that to sin is to break the law. Even the world that we live in to sin or to commit a crime means you have broken the law. There can be no criminals without the law being in effect. Also people cannot be prosecuted/judged without the law because in the absence of the law no crime could have been committed to begin with.

We are all aware of a day of judgement. If we are not under any law how could we have sinned? Why then is there a need for judgement?

Even in our world today you cant be brought to judgement on anything if there is not law to govern. That would be an injustice.

We are told that definitely we are sinners (1 John 1:8-10 & Jacob 5:16), that should tell you and me we are under the law.

For those that follow biblical law, that is what they will be judged against.

For those that follow no law, they will be judged according to what is written in their hearts. (Their conscience)

But you will find that not even the Gentiles were allowed to be lawless and completely ignorant, Acts 17:30-31 "30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”"

Acts 15:19-21 "19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”"

The Gentiles were initially given 4 Laws as not to burden them. They will be held accountable for breaking these laws, even though they are under grace.

To understand why Paul says the Gentiles are not under the law you must read Acts 15, Jews were telling Gentiles that they had to keep the full law of Moses and be circumcised. This was not initially the case as that would have been too much of a burden for new comers to the faith.

Also the Jews were no longer under the Law either but under grace Peter says below. But the Jews we still required to keep the Law to the letter. That is why they wrongly assumed that the Gentiles would have to keep the full Law.

However as I pointed out in a previous post the Israelites were given the Law over decades and were born into it and were taught every Sabbath. The Gentiles were previously Pagan and had no experience with the Law and its heavy burden. They were given 4 Laws to begin with to ease them into things. They were given further instruction subsequently.

Acts 5:5-11 "5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”"

shdemidemi: @timothycel

There is a thin line between grace and the law. If you go by what you are inferring, you would contradict yourself when you keep on reading the book of Romans thus it will become confusing. I am not totally in support with what the other brethren is saying but at the same time the bible says the believer has two natures constantly warring against each other
1 the old sin nature of sin
2 the new nature of righteousness

Therefore, it is very possible for a believer to fall into what we call sin [b][/b]cos the body is naturally comfortable with the sin nature cos it is the carrier of the nature. A believer needs a relationship with God to feed the new nature which gradually outweighs the old nature by constant hearing and studying of the word of faith.

My question to you is- On the day of Passover when the children of Israel were told to cover their houses with the blood of the lamb for the spirit of death to elude them
1)If Pharaoh's family were to cover their house with the blood of the lamb, would the spirit of death still kill them?

What is so confusing about the book of Romans? You havent explained much.

I find it strange that you are now explaining (In the bold sentence) sin when you said it does not exist. You did a 360 without much explanation.

To answer a very distracting question (Perhaps that the point behind the question; a diversion). If I were an Israelite and didnt obey the command and mark my house with the blood of the lamb then the first born male would have been smote. (It is likely that many Israelites did not listen and fell under the wrath of God; there are always people who dont listen.

Had the Egyptians kept the command then the Angel of death wouldnt have visited them. God does not show favouritism. To illistrate this, if it were purely based on ethnicity then all of the Israelites would have been safe from the angel of death without the requirement to mark their door with the lambs blood. It was a matter of being given a command and those who obey being saved from Gods wrath. You see grace is sometimes tied to the law. God could have just smote everyone, but the Israelites received grace by being given a command to follow.

Just it was then, it is still now. Gods commands are there to protect us and not burden us in the long run. An understanding of this leads to righteousness, keeping Gods commands. Not because were are forced but because were understand the purpose of the law is to protect us and not to punish us. That we should seek to keep the commands out of love and faith not fear.

Strangely enough those that dont fear God never make this connection. That is why it is said that the beginning of all knowledge is the fear of God. But under Grace we do not fear the Law.

If you see my previous post "Acts 10:34-35 "34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."

God has since the beginning looked with favour with people who obey his law and not looked at other factors. Even the chosen people were punished when they broke the law."

All I would say to you is that the body we carry is a carrier of sin. As long as man remains in this body, he would always be associated with sin. Sin as always been part of man since he fell, the law came to reveal sin to us. Man can fight within himself to be righteous before God but sin will always win such battle because sin ruled over us. In fact the more you give laws, the more you find law breakers, some will be caught and punished but many will transgress against laws when and where no one can see them.

An example was the woman that was to be stoned for adultery, Christ told all the people trying to kill the woman according to the law to cast their stones if they have no sin. None of the people could because everyone do their secret things under lock and key.

They Jewish people were a chosen people, God gave them a way for their souls to be saved through yearly atonement. Therefore, all sin could do to them was kill their body if they were caught. An average gentile is condemned because he does not have the oracle of God like the Jews had.

Christ came died for the soul of gentiles and Jews alike. The law of Moses that condemns is now a thing of the past, cos Christ came with is own condition. Christ's condition for us is BELIEF.


[quote author=timothycel]
We are all aware of a day of judgement. If we are not under any law how could we have sinned? Why then is there a need for judgement?
quote]@timothycel

A sinner in this age according to the gospel is not the guy that lies. A sinner is whoever does not believe the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. We are all sinners, no man, not one is righteous even when you repent. The only man that is righteous is the man that believe in the good news. If God judge man by the law, you and I will never make heaven cos the bible says in Romans 2:16 -
This will take place on the day when God judges [b]people’s secrets [/b]through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares

This means even things we think or imagine would be for or against us on that day. But, under this gospel of grace the bible says where sin abounds, grace abounds much more.

Bidam: Very interesting questionS that requires indept study of the bible and which will take more time to discuss abeg.I also believe something related to this have been exhaustively dealt with here on nairaland.try to find it and lets discuss it there cos am no expert on tribulation messages. .

I salute your sincerity my friend, but this question would clear all the argument about the gospel of grace to the church and the gospel of the law to the Jews.

We saw a description of how Christ would come pick the church before tribulation in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

and a separate description of His second coming in the book of Zechariah 14:4-

4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

All I am saying here is that the church won't be around to work for their salvation during tribulation, we would actually come back with Christ to judge the people left on earth based on works of the law. The gospel Peter, John and James preached is for the Jews that would be left in the world after the church had gone.

So, when you see church in the book of Revelation, it is no more this church with grace but a church that must work out their salvation to the letter.

shdemidemi:

I salute your sincerity my friend, but this question would clear all the argument about the gospel of grace to the church and the gospel of the law to the Jews.

We saw a description of how Christ would come pick the church before tribulation in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

and a separate description of His second coming in the book of Zechariah 14:4-

4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

All I am saying here is that the church won't be around to work for their salvation during tribulation, we would actually come back with Christ to judge the people left on earth based on works of the law. The gospel Peter, John and James preached is for the Jews that would be left in the world after the church had gone.

So, when you see church in the book of Revelation, it is no more this church with grace but a church that must work out their salvation to the letter.

Oga! you failed to address the scriptures i quoted concerning those who claimed to be Jews in revelations.

Bidam: Oga! you failed to address the scriptures i quoted concerning those who claimed to be Jews in revelations.

Why don't we just face this issue of doctrine first, the church is really missing what the scripture is saying. We believe everything in the scripture applies to us as Christians thus, we put ourselves under all sorts of dos and don'ts.

shdemidemi:

Why don't we just face this issue of doctrine first, the church is really missing what the scripture is saying. We believe everything in the scripture applies to us as Christians thus, we put ourselves under all sorts of dos and don'ts.

The church is not missing anything..address those scriptures i quoted abeg..atleast i answered your questions..you owe me that or i won't respond anymore to your posts.

Bidam: The church is not missing anything..address those scriptures i quoted abeg..atleast i answered your questions..you owe me that or i won't respond anymore to your posts.

You are a very funny guy I gave you a question to drive my point, you could not answer it but you threw random verse that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Bidam, I believe you are avoiding the truth but its all good.

shdemidemi:

You are a very funny guy I gave you a question to drive my point, you could not answer it but you threw random verse that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Bidam, I believe you are avoiding the truth but its all good.

I did answer your post, your sarcasm is well taken.Thanks.

Bidam: I did answer your post, your sarcasm is well taken.Thanks.

ok, my bad. If you say no to the question that says Christian would not suffer tribulation, what people will be on earth to go through those years then?

Bidam: The church is not missing anything..address those scriptures i quoted abeg..atleast i answered your questions..you owe me that or i won't respond anymore to your posts.

@Bidam: I think we have a common problem. @shdemidemi refuses to answer questions or respond to the comments that have been made. You go into a deep analysis with scripture and all you get is them running away.

I will respond to his response and instead of admitting where he is wrong he will just go on pretending as if nobody noticed.

shdemidemi: All I would say to you is that the body we carry is a carrier of sin. As long as man remains in this body, he would always be associated with sin. Sin as always been part of man since he fell, the law came to reveal sin to us. Man can fight within himself to be righteous before God but sin will always win such battle because sin ruled over us. In fact the more you give laws, the more you find law breakers, some will be caught and punished but many will transgress against laws when and where no one can see them.

(This contradicts your previous posts where you said sin doesnt exist in the dictionary of a believer etc Admit you were misinformed about sin!!! Dont just pretend we havent noticed that you are now changing your Gospel.)

An example was the woman that was to be stoned for adultery, Christ told all the people trying to kill the woman according to the law to cast their stones if they have no sin. None of the people could because everyone do their secret things under lock and key.

They Jewish people were a chosen people, God gave them a way for their souls to be saved through yearly atonement. Therefore, all sin could do to them was kill their body if they were caught. An average gentile is condemned because he does not have the oracle of God like the Jews had.


Hebrews 9:6-10 "6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order"

The yearly ceremony was just that, ceremonial cleansing and a reminder to refrain from sin. The Israelites were however not forgiven their sins under the Old Covenant. This was temporary in nature and would be abolished at the time when the New Covenant would take effect.

Hebrews 9:11-24 "11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!"

15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

The sins committed under the First or Old Covenant were actually forgiven under the New Covenant of Christs blood as the blood of animals was not a worth sacrifice for sin before God. So how were the Jews saved through early atonement as atonement was done through the Blood of Christ at the appointed time for all people since Adam?

Matthew 27:50-53 "50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

The bodies of Holy people were raised to life NB NOT ALL people but those that were Holy the moment after Jesus died. These people lived and died through the Old Covenant but were brought to life through the New Covenant. All peoples were forgiven at that moment including the Gentiles that had died previously. Those people are now all awaiting final judgement.

I will repeat myself again, God does not show favouritism. God judges fairly, not the way you are suggesting.

Christ came died for the soul of gentiles and Jews alike. The law of Moses that condemns is now a thing of the past, cos Christ came with is own condition. Christ's condition for us is BELIEF.


[quote author=timothycel]
We are all aware of a day of judgement. If we are not under any law how could we have sinned? Why then is there a need for judgement?
quote]@timothycel

A sinner in this age according to the gospel is not the guy that lies. A sinner is whoever does not believe the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. We are all sinners, no man, not one is righteous even when you repent. The only man that is righteous is the man that believe in the good news. If God judge man by the law, you and I will never make heaven cos the bible says in Romans 2:16 -
This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets [/b]through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares

This means even things we think or imagine would be for or against us on that day. But, under this gospel of grace the bible says where sin abounds, grace abounds much more.


Revelatioins 21:7-8 "7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 [b]But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

This means liars (People who Lie) will go to a fiery lake filled with sulfur and die a second time. (Along with people who do the other things.)

To summarise, you state things verbatim seemingly without much thought or analysis or scripture to support your "opinions".

1. You have failed to backup your doctrine of a "No sin" world.
2. You made a false claim about Jews receiving early salvation.
3. You made another false claim that a lie is in not a sin according to "this" Gospel when it stated explicitly that liars (people who tell lies will go to hell). If my statement is false then it implies that lairs go to hell because they lie, not because lying is a sin. You say there is only 1 sin, not believing. So if I believe but happen to be a serial killer and rapist and whatever else you can imagine then all is still fine. Just as long my thoughts are fine, just as long as i think what I did was fine then im free to do anything.

This method of judgement would only benefit a psychopath. So according to your logic, Jesus died to give sinners a free pass? So that we can have a buffet of sin guilt free? LOL.

How then does sinning freely lead to righteosness?

4. You gave a vague story about being judged according to our thoughts which i address along with point 3.

Revelations 22:14-15 "14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood"

Matthew 7:21-23 "21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 [b]Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers[/b]!’

Who are the evildoers? Those who believe in Jesus? But these are the very Believers Jesus is talking about.

What is this evil that they did, because they believed and that alone should be fine according to you?

James 1:19-27 "19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

Timothycel...I am not avoiding your questions, I just cant stand replying a full page of questions. If we can handle one question at a time, we can communicate better.

^^^As for your quotes, I have noticed you pick on the book of Revelation, James and Mathew. The three books are definitely part of the scripture thus they are there for our learning. Having said that, they are not doctrinal books to the church. These books were primarily written for circumcised / Jewish believers.