Why these discriminations between B.Sc and HND degrees holders?

This thing has been going on for a long time, that I thought by now our policy makers in this country would have taken steps to correct it. There are some companies that wouldn't employ an HND holder at all, while those that employs put them on a lower rank below their B.Sc counterparts of the same experience.

Recently, a friend of mine wanted to go for an MBA in one the nation's universities, but she was asked to do a Post-Graduate Diploma (PGD) first before she can apply for the MBA, because she is an HND holder.

It takes four years in the Polytechnic to acquire an HND degree, apart from years of work experience in-between. It also takes four years to acquire a B.Sc degree in a Nigerian university, except for Engineering and Medical courses.

The question is, do you think a B.Sc. degree and HND are equal? Do you think they should be treated equally, and why?

Daikim,
A poly is a technical school offering instruction in many industrial arts and applied sciences while a Uni is an institution for higher learning with teaching and research facilities constituting a graduate school and professional schools that award master's degrees and doctorates and an undergraduate division that awards bachelor's degrees.

They are of course two different schools that can never be classified as the same.
A poly graduate has a Diploma while a Uni graduate has a Bachelor's.

Government should be done is to systematically convert our Polytechnics into Universities, and remove the unecessary distinction. This way, we'll have less pressure on the current universities due to the HND holders trying to 'upgrade' themselves to the B.Sc level. This way, our limited facilities will be put to better use.

Personally, I would employ any first class holder from a federal institution, B.Sc or HND, regardless of the course. For the others, what matters is things like level of reasoning, willingness to absorb and apply information, experience, and so on. This can be tested in various ways.

From the point of view of someone seeking a job, however, the reality on ground means that they should make every effort to get into a University if they want to fly high in their careers. Too bad. I wish that more young people would try to create their own jobs, so things like this won't be the issue. Someone who is spending an additional 3-4 years in school to upgrade is HND to B.Sc. is not being economically productive in that period.

It is a very funamental question u ask: Why These Discriminations Between B.Sc & HND?

The question is got multi faceted answers. It requires a lot of other questions to be asked, a lot of sugggestions to be made and the x-raying of the Nigerian policy on technical education.

I'm not a government policy maker, but one needs to keep in perspective the whole essence of technical education.It was never meant to be an equivalent of the university degree (that to me is sad).Technical education was designed by DEGREE holders- so what do u expect?But I think the average Nigerian student should well be aware of this before he/she ventures into the polytechnic...Nigeria is a very certificate focused ccountry- u are most likely judged by your certificate or by your bank account.

This I think leads me to the second issue, there is really no need for the polytechnic graduate to feel inferior if things were in place in the country.In fact a poly graduate is supossed to handle the technical aspects of the economy which is not what is obtainable in our dearest country.

I would say your friend who wanted to go for the MBA is very fortunate he(or she) was told to do a PGD.In the University of Ibadan, he would have had to start from year three.Its that bad. What I think should be done is:

1.The polytechnic graduate should be involved in the making of policies for technical education, as long a others make policies for them they'll get no where.

2. The standard of education in our polytachnics should be raised.There is no denying the fact that many of our polytehnics are not what they should.
This could be done by making the entry requirements the same as our universities.

3. Technical education should be given more place of importance in the Nigerian polity.It should be seen as the engine through which development can be achieved.
It is only through this that an HND holder will be able to have his/her rightful place in the scheme of thing.

In the Nigerian civil service today, there is a barrier to the height the HND holder can reach.He/She can only get to be an assistant director- the post of deputy director, director, permanent secretary or head of service os forever beyond his/ her reach. How sad. A lot of brains barred from excellence because they had the misfortune of following the wrong channel.

From my understanding a poly would be a trade school (technical college) kinda arangement?

If all of your poly's would be converted into uni's you are going to have skill shortages as the practical sides that aren't addressed as well at uni's.

The reality of Nigerian Higher education today is that when people cannot get into Universities (we don't have enough Universities) they go to Polytechnics.

The HND holders are not treated as 'graduates who have better practical skills'. They are treated as 'inferior graduates' as Diakim points out. I don't think they acquire any more practical skills than University graduates, though I am open to correction from any Polytechnic student or graduate.

If I am wrong, why is it that companies want candidates with B.Sc. in Computer Science for entry level programming or network admin jobs? Programming and network administration are practical tasks, right?

Hunter, I agree with you,
It's unfair to compare a Technologist to an Engineer.

A poly graduate is supposed to be more knowledgeable in the practical area which was supposed to be their edge. Nowadays, due to the declining standard of practical experience in Polythecnics in Nigeria, employers now prefer to hire University graduates whom have probably the same practical experience with the poly graduates, that's what is sidelining them.

I think I know the reasons now from you guys posts, especially as Mamba posted. Allenpowered has raised some serious issues which I think explained the cores of the matter.

The reality of getting out of this situation is still very far, from what Seun has said. As long as the univeristies are not enough to admit the myriads of applicants, students have no choice than to go to the polyytechnics. But the reality of the situation will now stare them in the face later in the future when they want to upgrade themselves in their careers. So much for our educational policies.

@Allenpowered, you made very important points but , If you say that the average nigerian should be aware of whatever before venturing into the polytechnic, then I think you are wrong! Probably in the past such person should have but not now dear brother, when JAMB jambs u enuf, you would have a rethink!

I then concur with you when you say things are not in place in Nigeria here, sad really . Just like seun said, I think really, if the polytechnic graduates are not going to be accepted in the same way as a university graduate is, then there is absolutely no reason why the POLYTECHNIC should be existing, "simply systematically convert them"!

Getting down to the basics, let us see how some people end up being polytechnique graduates; You are out of secondary school, and you seat for the UME the first time, you get an average mark of say 220 and the cut off is way above,for your desired course you don't get admitted, unless of course, you've got some "godfather" or a "bulging pocket . You attempt it a second time, and probably this time your result is withheld or seized ! You then think, rather than waste further time at home, let me attempt the PCE. Alright, you attempt, pass, and start up your National Diploma programme......


Things are not just working the way it ought to be. For chris' sake these same hnd graduates spent 5 yrs in the Polytechnic, why then should they be treated so?

dominobaby:

Things are not just working the way it ought to be. For chris' sake these same hnd graduates spent 5 yrs in the Polytechnic, why then should they be treated so?

I wonder too. The system is just not too fair to them.

@dominobaby,
I quite agree with your point,let me state categorically, that we were not talking of HND and MSc, what we were talking about is the first degree (Bsc.), come down to the polytechnic and see what is really happenning in the system, it is not an easy task, and you come out to the shaddy world of discrimination again. I believe the poly is truly a techincal college, and also believe that it should be ranked as same with university of technologies, afterall, the polyte are technologist.
The government should try and redress the issue of education generally, you can see what is happening in Ogun State now, a state college of education, now becoming university of education, purposely because of this certificate barrier.
May God help us.

@shallar1,
I think you misunderstood my points somewhere along the line. I did not mention anything as regards Msc. It's still same topic: discrimination between B.sc and HND

AGAINST HND HOLDERS TODAY


Hate crimes, is a violent act against people or organization because of the group to which they belong or identify with these were tragic part of our history. The statistical history on hate crimes is meager. Nevertheless, Scientific research is beginning to yield some good perspectives on the general nature of crimes committed because of real or perceived differences in race, religion ethnicity or national origin, qualification, orientation disability or gender.

The offenses of hate range from simple assault (i.e. no weapon is involved) to aggravated assault. This kind of attack takes place on two levels, not only is it an attack on one's physical self, but it is an attack on one's very identity in this case HND certificate.

Most hate crimes are carried out by otherwise law-abiding people who see little wrong in their actions, the determinant appears to be personal prejudice, a situation that colours peoples judgment, blinding the aggressors to the immorality of what they are doing. Such prejudice is most disdains someone who is "different" or sees that difference as threatening.

One _expression of this prejudice is the perception that society sanctions attacks on certain groups.

Researchers have concluded that hate crimes are not necessarily random, uncontrollable inevitable occurrences. There is overwhelming evidence that society can intervene to reduce or prevent many forms of the hate that threatens and intimidates entire categories of (HND) people.

In the public service despite all efforts to ensure pay parity and equal recognition to HND and BSC graduates, the situation still remains the same. For instance HND holders are employed on GL 07 (except HND in Engineering with the entry point of 08) the limit to an HND accountancy holder in the bursary or accounts department of an organization is level 13. Whereas a University degree can rise far above that, this is another hate crime the Grade Level bar placed on the HND holders who are Civil Servants is undergoing attention. Gasper (2000) stated that the division of labour at engineering cadre is not to make one cadre superior to the other, hate crime must stop, and grade level bars must be removed.

For HND holders, discrimination in labour market continues and this can not be justified. It is bad, many holders of HND today took Joint Admissions and Matriculations Board (JAMB) exams. Some in fact have eight credits at a single sitting but resorted to the Polytechnic for practical reasons, besides each HND programme is a five years programme at the polytechnic against the 4 years of the University which is now preferred and promoted above level 14 bar placed on the HND.

Simple solution is for all those with HND to go into unionism or call for polytechnic cancellation . They should come together and cry out so that the government and everyone support them like the way Nigerian Association of Technological Engineers (NATE) are currently going about it, NATE is the only HND holders organized society for now, and the experience so far show the hate crimes from the B.Sc. Engineers. It is real and this must stop.

The body registered as NATE was formed in 1976 by a group of HND (Engineering) graduate who considered themselves marginalized by the Nigerian Society of Engineers (NSE) a group of University trained Engineering Scientist. The HND engineering graduates were refused recognition and registration as professional and often lumped in the technical cadre with those of lower qualification.

On establishment, the body sought to be registered as the Nigerian Institute of Technological Engineers (NITE). Council of Registered Engineers of Nigeria opposed this. (COREN) for using the word INSTITUTE and ENGINEER the hate crime there is that the word "institute" would imply that it could set examinations to determine standards and the members were not recognized as Engineers. COREN finaly allowed the body to have its way , named and registered as Nigerian Association of Technological Engineers (NATE) in 1988, twelve full years after its establishment. NSE quickly established defense, as they want to succeed in retaining their position as the only umbrella organization for the whole range and cadres within the engineering family. The problem was how to be flexible enough to respond to needs of all within the engineering family without compromising the professional needs.

The challenge came first from graduates of British institutions whose qualification were discriminated against by NSE. In Britain this created no problems but here in Nigeria a developing country, it was a problem (hate crimes) since the NSE is anxious to be an umbrella organization.

This was what lead Geo-technical and Mining to have their own council called COMEG as rivals of COREN.

The problem of NSE became acute in 1976 when holders of HND float a body of Technological Engineers. Eng. Teju Oyeleye, then NSE president show the hatred by objecting to registration of anyone as an Engineer who did not have a University Degree. Eng. Faluyi did warn them against these hate crimes and advised caution in tackling the delicate issues involved, urging a committee to see how FTC holders and HND holders could join them as a full member of the NSE. This lead to the NSE graduate examination, which turned out to be "Money Making Venture" of NSE. Even then the first examination held by NSE was drawn for 20 candidates but only two showed up and only one wrote the paper. The other spent time to explain the Hate-Crimes as a pretest to why he should not write the examination. In 1985 the NSE introduced a local ladder an equivalent of CE I part II examination through the approval by council, the first exam proper was held in 1988 and by the end of 1990, 693 HND holders and FTC holders had taken the exam and for years only 124 had passed the examination and wait again for 2 years before been registered by COREN.

NATE challenge the right of NSE to conduct such exams in court but due to superior financial ability of NSE, the court was well attended by brilliant lawyers and the situation favor NSE as reported by Prof. Ade Ajayi's History of NSE and among the past debts inherited by Eng. Inuwa may also be reckoned as the sore problem caused by NATE who had taken the NSE to court over the graduateship examination for HND holders.

The "hate" became critical when Eng. Inuwa became president of COREN and again used his influence with the Government, he was able to complete the process of amending Decree 55 of 1970. Thus Degree 27 of 1992 finally rename Technological Engineers as Engineering Technologist. Before this new decree NATE was involved in the amendment. COREN, agreed to Technological Engineers in fact NATE suggested COREN'S new name "Council for Regulation of Engineering in Nigeria (COREN) as a way to meet the desire of the HND holders. Several other issues were yet unresolved before some people with vested interest in COREN rushed into the amendment of the decree.

This end a rival organization was floated by COREN and financed by NSE named Nigerian Institute of Engineering Technologist (NIET) whose registration was rejected by corporate affairs commission (CAC) this was to put to rest the agitation of NATE.

NATE as an association has tried very much in championing the right cause of HND holders right from inception, NATE has always opposed the designation as engineering Technologist but for separation of Identity Technological Engineers was used. Re-designating courses run in the Polytechnic as Technology is a plan to prevent competition and it was so easy to libeled the HND Engineers as Technologist. In Canada Technologist is 3 years course and not in anyway trained as Nigerian HND.

Today we are witnessing Engineering and Engineers in Nigeria. COREN was swallowed by NSE even recently in the Trenched hall University of Ibadan at the 7th Arokodare Memorial lecture, Eng. Fadupin did not hide his feeling of hate when he openly called on the NSE to do more hates by opposing COREN registration through mature program. Since nurses, Pharmacists and lawyers do not have mature route, so I give him a support here so let every body go on a level playing ground so NSE will loose the leadership like the doctors. Today the Nurses and other paramedical stayed on their own. HND engineering can go to places and have their own council.

In 1998 an amicable resolution to this "hate crimes" was reached a mature route for was open for HND graduate, COREN counter proposal limit the mature route to 1982. NSE put a stop to this mature route in 1999 then NATE have to sacrifice by agreeing to change name for this, the mature route became open till December 2002 for graduate who are 45 years of age and obtained HND 1982. NATE was recognized

Consequently, NATE agreed to change name to Technologist-in-Engineering. COREN which has been sponsoring a rival group NIET for registration is in a delimma to withdraw that sponsorship or not, and the mature route was announced on November 16th at Owerri by COREN'S president Engr. Osoba. The important of this route is that in due course all those who graduate up to 1982 with HND would be Engineers leaving the Technologist, logically old name of NATE will become truly obsolete.




nate88engr@yahoo.com

N .I. T. E.

Nigerian Institute Of Technologists in Engineering

http://www.geocities.com/technologist_engr/principalpage.html
SMALL SCALE INDUSTRAIL ESTATE PL0T 4 LINCA WAY ISOLO.
P.O.BOX 3910 IKEJA LAGOS STATE.
PHONE: 01-4802798

I wish all HND holders could go back to the University for a degree in any useless course to escape these discriminations. I just want the world to know that HND is a stressful qualification.

In the public service despite all efforts to ensure pay parity and equal recognition to HND and B.Sc graduates, the situation still remains the same. For instance HND holders are employed on GL 07 (except HND in Engineering with the entry point of 08) the limit to an HND accountancy holder in the bursary or accounts department of an organization is level 13. Whereas a University degree can rise far above that, Grade Level 14 bar was placed on the HND holders who are Civil Servants by the government.

For HND holders, discrimination in labour market continues and this can not be justified. It is bad, many holders of HND today took Joint Admissions and Matriculations Board (JAMB) exams. Some in fact have eight credits at a single sitting but resorted to the Polytechnic for practical reasons, besides each HND programme is a five years programme at the polytechnic against the 4 years of the University which is now preferred and promoted above level 14 bar placed on the HND holders others with additional qualification like PGD had their level moved from 14 moved to level 09 in Engineering

Simple solution to HND is for the government to close close down the polytechnics.

I understand your plight bro! I quite remember like 3 to 4 years ago when some guys in the civil service were demoted from the post of directors(GL 16) to level 14(asst. director) in the state civil service.Not because they were not competent but because the Federal government policy makers decided HND is no longer B.sc equivalent in the civil service no matter the experience!

check out this thread:https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-134.0.html

The Kaduna Polytechnic Will Soon Begin PhD Programmes'

Engineer Danjuma Ismaila Isah, the  rector of Kaduna Polytechnic has affirmed that his institution will soon begin a series of PhD programmes which would put polytechnic graduates on an equal level with their University counterparts

  Anexisting qualifications tussle between the polytechnics and universities in Nigeria, whereby the polytechnic graduates are not considered equals of the university graduates. A lot of concerns has been generated in this respect.

Technical education in Nigeria  is still new trying to show that no country develops technologically without it, and this is the primary constituency of the polytechnics.
But there have been some stumbling blocks for those who attend technical schools in Nigeria. I mean polytechnics, Colleges of Technology etc. and there are forms of discrimination after their education. Engineer Danjuma Ismaila Isah confimed that a lot of parents have negative perceptions about technical education. The reason is that  Higher National Diploma (HND), holder may be compelled to work under somebody who has a Bachelor of Science (BSc) from a University.

I was a victim of this kind of situation during my time,said  Engineer Danjuma Ismaila Isah. "when I became the Head of Electrical Engineering Department of the Kaduna Polytechnic in 1991. I saw a work done by somebody before. The project was on how to bridge HND and Degree programmes. He recommended a "post-HND" programme. The post-HND is a 2 year programme. I thought about it, and said, look, why don't we execute this?"
whenever  students finish their HND, they go to the University and they are denied of masters degree admissions. They are forced to start from 100 level or 200 level. When they get to the University, the orientation is quite different from the technical orientation they had in the polytechnic.  HND level, was the end of  academic progress in Polytechnic.  whereas those graduated from Universities will go for a master's degree and PhD. By the time they return, the polytechnic graduate is still a technician.

Parents  prefer that their children sit for GCE 5 times and JAMB as many times as possible, to get to the Universities.

Luckily Engineer Danjuma Ismaila Isah succeeded in getting accreditation for the post-HND progrmme. This makes Kaduna polytechnic, the first of its kind in the entire Africa to run such programme.

Up till today, Kaduna polytechnic is the only polytechnic running post-HND programmes which qualify  graduates automatically for a masters' degree in the Universities. The programme is fully registered with the council for Regulation of Engineering in Nigeria COREN.

Now there is no disparity between graduates of Kaduna Polytechnic and their University counterparts.

HND holders problem began because HND graduates are made to start afresh when they get to the university. After that, all they learn in the polytechnic disappears. So, the post HND prevented the loss of technical knowledge which the graduates acquired from the polytechnics, and  also provide the BSc equivalent. That stops changing students back into the mainstream of the University. So that mean total liberation students can proceed in the polytechnic with their masters and PhD programmes!

Kaduna polytechnic are liberated from the unnecessary discrimination from their university counterparts.

@HND Holder, just curious, you've got so much compassion for HND Holders, is that why you registered with that name?

Anyway, for Hnd holders to be recognised, I guess they should just endeavour to get a direct entry(DE) into the university, starting at 300 level(though it is painful o, after spending 5 solid years ) or after your OND(Ordinary National Diploma, for those still within the system) try getting a DE too (guess it's much easier then).

Thank you. For HND man to go to the university is waste of brain and resources. Polytechnic education should be assurance against Hunger and Unemployment. Those that cannot stand it could go for a time wasting venture using fake GCE results or Sold WAEC/JAMB question papers. No pride in failure, you know.

Nigerian education system failed with the introduction of polytechnics. The best for our educational policy is the British way.

RESOLVING THE SITUATION
The problems have already been outlined and the parties are in discussion. There is therefore the expectation that the issues outstanding will be resolved in due time. However, there is certainly an urgency that cannot be wished away in dealing with the key issues of recognition, title, remuneration and amendment of the Decrees.
On Recognition: One of the major problems has been the perception of the HND as middle level, technical manpower because the polytechnics are lumped with technical schools under the same regulatory body - National Board for Technical Education. This is why NITE had called for the establishment of a Polytechnics Commission in the 1996 Engineering Assembly paper. It is very heartening that the Federal Government has decided to set up one. This will now enable the polytechnics to exploit to the fullest relevant provisions of the Education Decree No. 16 of 1985 for training engineers, technologists and technicians with the type of orientation NICORHEN had noted in section 2.2 of its Summary of Findings and Observations - professionals with an emphasis on application and development.
On Title and Designation: The American Model designates holders of the 4-yr engineering technology program (BS ET) as engineers, the same way as the holder of the HND or CNAA degree is in the British system. Thus, it is a wonder why there is so much resistance to accepting this title for the HND holder in Nigeria.
On Remuneration: The placement of a bar at GL 14 for holders of HND is also a major issue. The earlier this bar is lifted the better. Therefore, COREN must be commended for lending its voice to this call in its memorandum to the Federal Ministry of Establishment. .

NBTE restructures ND programme to 3yrs
THE two- year National Diploma (ND) programme in the nation’s Polytechnics is soon to be re-structured into a three-year programme made up of two years of full academic work and one year of compulsory supervised industrial work experience. According to the Executive Secretary of the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE), Dr Nuru Yakubu, this was part of the resolutions reached at the consultative meeting of the professional registration councils recently. Speaking at the opening of the 18th consultative meeting of officials of NBTE and Rectors of Nigerians Polytechnics in Kaduna on Wednesday, he also revealed that the councils have agreed that ND certificate should become a qualifying basis for direct entry into Higher National Diploma (HND) or Bachelor’s degree in Technology (B.Tech) in Polytechnics ‘as this will effectively stem the drift from the technical cadre.’

Note this most especially HND Holder and Allenpowa:
I like your views towards the fact of discrimination between this two certies. I was once an HND holder, but for this debate, i had to press forward after i had taken different kinds of insult from employers as if am holding a pry. school leaving cert. or Grade II cert.

But now i got to see what they are seeing and why we were treated like that and still i think they are still wrong.
Lets take it from this dimension, I studied Elect./Elect. Engr. to HND level but was dumped on interviews cos the market believes we learn nothing.
I was once told that we the polytechs we had 50/50 practicals to theories when in school while our counterparts had 75% theory with just 25% of practical class, thus made them the superior. But remeber that less that 20% of this Uni grduates can handle the market world the way the Polytechs will, you know why?, cos we had the industrial training twice before gradution while they had 3-months SIWES programme where 80% use it as opportunities to visit friends.

Till my upgradement i had never been regarded as an engineer but rather a technician and the worst scenerio was that the so called engineers will always want a capable technician to work with cos he/she is not that sound practically
so friends if we look at this area of ours ( Nigerian Industries) they believe much more in CERTIFICATES than your outputs, so why not try harder and acquire that B.Sc and you will be 1000% better than the so called Uni. gradutes at least they will also call you one and by then you are having more certificates to present with series of experiences.
I rest my case for now.

I don't think there's need for the discrimination between HND certificate and Degree certificate but since the labour market has decided to group them differently, I think the best to do is to go straight to a university and obtain the degree, anyhow.....

go straight to a university and obtain the degree, anyhow..... good talk

This is a case of quantity for quality.

L&G,
Stop crying about what is not within your control. In a buoyant & productive economy, everyone has his bit. In ours , there are fewer jobs, so preference has to be made by employers of labour. There are some jobs that HND holders are best suited for( technical jobs. Have you ever heard of HND- medicine or english etc ? Certainly not.
Pls let us focus on building our economy and patronising locally made goods, so that the effect of this dichotomy will be less felt.

I think abuse is the word for anything used other than for it's original purpose. 'Where there is no vision, (permit me to say purpose) people cast off restraint'. Why do people cheat, bribe, trade their bodies to obtain a degree or a HND? Which Polytechnic in Nigeria is reknowned for excellence in one technical field (Polytechnic = Poly i.e many + Technich i.e technical creativity)? Which Nigerian University is one stop shop for research? Both institutions are shadows of what they were meant to be. Lost purpose!

Why have nurses not agitated to be doctors? Or nursing schools rub shoulders with medical schools? They still hold on to their purpose. 'If the foundation be destroyed (the reason,purpose,vision... lost) what can the righteous (the employer, the innocent job market, YOURSELF) do?

If the two institutions are re-engineered to do what they were meant to do, they will churn out products that are complements, not alternatives. We have drifted afar, that is WHY!

Cheers.

Just last wee, I was opportuned to be in the office of the Admission Officer of the University of Lagos. A young man came in to inquire whether he should apply for a postgraduate course, and that he had HND.

The Admission Officer went a long way to explain to him that the university does not consider HND holders as graduates, but that they are diploma holders and therefore cannot apply for any postgraduate course in Unilag. He even went as far as saying that HND holders are not even permitted to do a Post Graduate Diploma in Unilag, though other universities may allow them.

In summary, he was saying that by technical definition, HND is not equal to B.Sc.

All is quite unfortunate that people from Poly have to pay the prize of not recognizing along side by their Uni counterparts.

Thou it is a de-motivating to the HND holders not to be given the same opportunity to displace their God given talents just because he/she passed thro Poly, I want to steer my fellow comrades not to look at themselves as inferior or second class citizenry in the sector they know they can do even better than the B.SC holders.

I think its high time we tell our people to start developing their human resource and utilize them judiciously for the development of our dear nation instead of encouraging and trading on  paper presentation and discrimination.

For God seek, the dichotomy and discrimination between HND and B.Sc should be harmonize and synergies for the interest of great state Nigeria.

Every body should be given opportunity to prove his/her self worthiness in any sector of their choice irrespective of whether they hold HND and B.Sc.

Great Nigeria people, I salute you all. [/i]

I understand how frustrating it can be to have your contemporary favoured above you by mere reason of the institution from which you graduated

However i heed to ask one question how many poly graduates made up their minds not to bother writing Uni JAMB and went straight on to write only POLYJAMB exam? Simply put, did you attend a poly as of first choice?

If I get into a position where I can employ people...say a boss or Human Resources Manager, I don't think I would employ an HND holder except if he has done his postgraduate. The reason is that the standard with which they are admitted into the Polytechnics is too low. I know quite a lot of people with F9 parallel (not that bad, just exaggerating) who got admitted into Polytechnics. I think Polytechnics are for people who could not enter Uni because of their low grades, the people with higher grades in Polytechnics usually take Direct Entry into Uni after their OND. The others continue with the HND. I would say the percentage of really smart students in Polytechnics doing HND must be like 1%, and such students should be asked; "What are you still doing in Poly?" A big apology to whoever feels offended by this post but it is my opinion, isn't it?

Conclusion: Poly is never a first choice for any student or his/her parent. So why do people end up there and FINISH there?

Sorry to burst the bubbles of hnd holders but the HND anywhere in the world is inferior to the degree holder cos the degree holder is EXPECTED to have undergone a more rigorous academic program and is believed to be more suited to the job. This theory that universities focus on the theoretical aspects and ignore the practical is a very bad delusion. I believe it is one of the reasons why nigeria is still the way it is. Why should a pharmacist have to wait for a SLT graduate before he can set up his lab, he knows the apparatus he needs and what is neccessary for his job? why should a mechanical engineer who will be responsible for our machines and other equipment not be able to apply it practically.  I believe this is fostered by the nigerian emphasis on passing exams. That is why an SSCE holder who does not advance further becomes economically trapped because he hasn't been taught to practically apply what he was taught.

The fact is this, an OND or HND holder is a technician pure and simple. Take the time to better yourself, no time is lost. The reasons for getting an OND or HND vary but that should not hold you back from getting a B.Sc

@HNDHolder  The BTEC HND in the UK is held to be inferior to the B.Sc so I don't understand what you mean by the british way.

@IAH where I stay, people with 5Ps enter the polytechnic so i am not surprised if people discriminate against them. The remedial programs(pre-poly) are also fraught with massive fraud and extensive exam malpractice

You are all very right. the polytechnics were expected to run courses at OND only later for HND. HND is not equal to Bsc but only equivalent in professional courses. Do you have HND English, yoruba, history ,mathematic etc. but you have degrees in those area.
Because there is no job that is why the prononcement. Leave the technicians and the technologists to do their work. What are the graduates looking for in workshops they should go and design for the HND holders.
Remember I own PhD in engineering now but I started from the HND. Its all useless

legs:

However I need to ask one question how many poly graduates made up their minds not to bother writing Uni JAMB and went straight on to write only POLYJAMB exam? Simply put, did you attend a poly as of first choice?

IAH:

I think Polytechnics are for people who could not enter Uni because of their low grades, the people with higher grades in Polytechnics usually take Direct Entry into Uni after their OND. The others continue with the HND. I would say the percentage of really smart students in Polytechnics doing HND must be like 1%, and such students should be asked; "What are you still doing in Poly?" A big apology to whoever feels offended by this post but it is my opinion, isn't it?
Conclusion: Poly is never a first choice for any student or his/her parent. So why do people end up there and FINISH there?

Most polytechnic graduates did not get in there because they did have complete results or iot was their first choice. Many atimes it is because after several attempts of UME to no avail, they decided to try out the polytechnics, and even after attempting a Direct Entry, they still do not find it easy to get in.
I bet you wouldn't want to attempt one exam several times, you surely would get fed up.

Seun,thank u I am back. It is better not to go to school at all than be a HND Holder. Do you know th latest? get to the Ministries.