donnie:

Mr pastor,

I see you are realy having a time with your worship of who i dont know(but definitely not the Lord Jesus).

I am not surprised anyway. Your posts on nairaland so far have been anything but Spirit filled.

You will pass for a babalawo anytime.

My friend, The graetest authority in all creation; heaven  earth and beneath the earth is not ori but JESUS! [color=#000099][/color][font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]

Thank you. I'm not sure what I'm thanking you for but I guess you've made an effort and so that ought to be acknowledged.

I do not believe that anyone denies the ONE behind all creation. . .

NO ONE, however, should tell ANYONE how HE should practice or who HE should worship . . .

Pastor, I apologize if I opened up a can of worms.

Orisanla:

I do not believe that anyone denies the ONE behind all creation. . .

NO ONE, however, should tell ANYONE how HE should practice or who HE should worship . . .

Pastor, I apologize if I opened up a can of worms.

The can has been opened a long time and that is a good thing. How else will we begin a dialectic to explore Truth? The only problem is that I find that there is rarely a desire to truly engage the issue but some would rather just bandy about certain buzzwords and key phrases in the most superficial manner.

Pastor Pastor; as long as you bear that user name, u shouldnt be allowed to just say or do whatever u like.

If your desire is to explore truth, is it not wise to start from the one who himself is truth: JESUS? Why dont you say like Paul (who saw the devotion of the men of Athens to the worship of the one whom they called THE UNKNOWN GOD), I declare unto you the one whom you ignorantly worship -Acts 17:23.

donnie:

If your desire is to explore truth, is it not wise to start from the one who himself is truth: JESUS? Why dont you say like Paul (who saw the devotion of the men of Athens to the worship of the one whom they called THE UNKNOWN GOD), I declare unto you the one whom you ignorantly worship -Acts 17:23.

Are we to presume that you know Jesus then?

I'd rather be worshipping Truth in ignorance than have no knowledge of Truth at all.

donnie:

Pastor Pastor; as long as you bear that user name, u shouldnt be allowed to just say or do whatever u like.

But your pastor[oyaks] uses pastor as title and he says a lot of rubbish he likes and the likes of you not only condone it but you ignoranty idolize him for the rubbish he spews out.

donnie:

Pastor Pastor; as long as you bear that user name, u shouldnt be allowed to just say or do whatever u like.

I welcome that. I have always told people to criticise what I write.

But I would suggest you go further and be equally critical of anybody, here or in the real world, who uses the title Pastor.

Peoples' truth will become just that: THEIR TRUTH. . .

It sounds as though following a particular Dogma automatically elevates One's chances of getting into heaven, when in reality: NO HUMAN or Divine Being, for that matter, should ever come between the relationship [his] nieghbor posseses with HIS Creator.

It also seems as tho respect and warm character bares no credence, provided that a mas opts to follow/worship the Dogma(s) shared by the masses (here in this forum).

I was once a Christian and realized that the TRUTH was FAR more stretched by its practitioners than ITS Creator.

I'd much rather live an abundant, hateless, and peaceful life than spend my time persecuting others for not professing what [ they ] at very best, Do not practice.

Pastor, as I stated earlier. Thank you for shedding light on the topic at hand.

Could you be so kind as to shed light on the latter Odu I posted?

Thank you

Ire O

Orisanla:

I was once a Christian and realized that the TRUTH was FAR more stretched by its practitioners than ITS Creator.

The above statement is the reason why some of us have come out boldly against pastors and preachers today, it is very evident that the gospel has been heavily distorted over the centuriies and our preachers today continue to distort it and in this way they are actually driving more people away from God becos they are turning his "word" into a lie.

KunleOshob,

The point I was trying to make is that MAN can write and re-write HIStory as he wishes and call it Man's truth and ONLY thruth, Your previous statement suggested that this kind of wrongdoing is happening TODAY, when MAN has done it for centuries.

Furthermore, Man has forcefully enslaved, destroyed, and conquered entire civilizations in the name of G*d. Why should I follow a God that allowed my ancestors to become annihilated? Were they such bad individuals that they deserved to suffer ( and eventually parish) the way they did

It seemed as though Man's interests were FAR more relevant than those of HIS belief system. Even worse, when his belief system surfaced, it was met and led with racism, manipulation, and inequality.

Now. I recognize that YOU many not subscribe to these ideas, but I would hope that in your own LOGIC would understand why I chose to serve MY path, and not ONE that was GIVEN to me.

You are a HUMAN being, and that alone gives me a reason to respect you, Whether we share the same "God" or not.

Peace be with you.

-Carlos Arias

Aboruboye Aboye bo sise.
Ifa a gbewa ooo
Nitoripe okontoporo awo eregun
Mo fi lakalaka awo edidi ona
sun fun mi sun soun awo adawele sodun ejigbomekun
oran kan be lajanko dugbedugbe
bi mo wi maa pogun eru
bi mi o wi maa gbejigba ileke
A difa fun fagbamiye tin sawo won lese oke
O ni ori ni kabo ka forisa sile.

Oogun lojo iponju ori lo lojo gbogbo
Ara iwaju mo seba oooo

Inu bibi aya ogun
edo fufu aya ija
ori alade aya esu egbe iganna lo tin sawo

Eyin alase aye
alagbawi lorun
ida omom aforu lalu
monamona tin soju orun yoroyoro
anigba maa ladin
alaadin maa nigba
ori omo kundunkundun mbe nigba meladin
adifa fun omo afokele gbe itan adie mi
oni igbo etile toun tegbin
adapo owo toun tija
emi ni mo ju e iwo lo ju mi
lo mu ara ile foju di ni
o da fun okan sosso eji iwori to lagbo ola sile
o ni egun ti mo gun ko sa i se
epe mi ko sa ija
ki a lowo lo wo bi ara ode iwere
kereje owinrin owinrin kereje

Agbo a to oooo

Orisanla:


p.s.  What can you tell me about Irosun Oturupon Ire Aiku?  

To be honest, most of my responses to Ifa question have been got from books that I own.  I looked up irosun tutu (irosun oturupon)  in my book, Ifa - a complete divination by Ayo Salami.  The verses are really long and I don't really have the time (or energy) to write it all out here.  It seems to me though that the verses talk about Ogun a lot.  and also about an impending fight, war, or heated situation, and how to come through it unscathed.  It also warns against being discarded once you've outlived your usefulness to people.  That is another typical Ogun theme.
bi omode ba fi iwaju owo se ise
If a child uses the front of his hand to work
a mu eyin owo daanu
he will use the back of his hand to cast it away
a dia fun ina
was divined for fire.

People tend fire when they need it to cook etc, but once they are done they discard the fire and let it die out.  

I think the odu also gives verses on how to remain calm, cool, and collected inspite of the heated situation.

I'm sorry if I cannot be of more help in this.    I've also found a site that talks about Irosun tutu here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7134885/Irosun-Completo

But it's in spanish.

Aboru, Aboye, Abosise.

Thank you for your reply, pastor.

I speak spanish and will investigate this Odu further.

I also noticed that there were verses posted by Orunmila76. Would anyone be as kind as to translate them for us?

Thank you, once again.

Ire Odabo

KunleOshob:

The above statement is the reason why some of us have come out boldly against pastors and preachers today, it is very evident that the gospel has been heavily distorted over the centuriies and our preachers today continue to distort it and in this way they are actually driving more people away from God becos they are turning his "word" into a lie.

Yes, here they come, men of the senses, i am still not surprised at all. Dont birds of the same feather flock together.
So you are the one drawing people to God through idolatory and witchcraft abi? That is what happens when you refuse to retain God in your hearts and minds.
I have seen you guys in action on many threads whenever it comes to criticiszing the work of the Holy Spirit, the church or his ministers. You are only in support of the works of the flesh; things that appeal to your senses; witchcraft, idolatory and the like.

I feel sorry for you because it hasn't yet been granted you to taste of the riches of the kingdom of which i speak. Those that are of my father will hear and understand.

Only the lost can join you in this worship of self. That is why i am on this thread to save those that will hear. JESUS IS LORD!

donnie:

Yes, here they come, men of the senses, i am still not surprised at all. Dont birds of the same feather flock together.
So you are the one drawing people to God through idolatory and witchcraft abi? That is what happens when you refuse to retain God in your hearts and minds.
I have seen you guys in action on many threads whenever it comes to criticiszing the work of the Holy Spirit, the church or his ministers. You are only in support of the works of the flesh; things that appeal to your senses; witchcraft, idolatory and the like.

I feel sorry for you because it hasn't yet been granted you to taste of the riches of the kingdom of which i speak. Those that are of my father will hear and understand.

Only the lost can join you in this worship of self. T[b]hat is why i am on this thread to save those that will hear.[/b] JESUS IS LORD!

And how many people have you succeed in "saving". How many people have heard what donnie has said and have had a change of mind? If you have heard what donnie said and are now "saved" please raise up your hand.

ODI MEJI
Ile ni mo joko si
Ni gbogbo ire n wo tuurutu waa ba mi
odede ni mo joko ka
gbogbo oro nwo wa ba mi
Mo joko ainaro
mo rire oro to po repete
A di fa fun odi
Tin sawo lo si ode oko
o jokoo o feyin ti igi akoko
ire gbogbo n da wa
ibi a fi iyo si lo n somi si
ki ire wa to wa wa oo

Ara iwaju iba.



@pastor
Keke logun awo ile olowu
abaja logbon awoo won lode eyo
ture laadota
A difa fu olunloye
tin tikole orun bowa saiye
Nje,Olunloye mo mo binu o
Nitori igi gbigbe kii loje awo ilobi
yeye omo ni moni lomo awo erinja
A difa fun dodondede
tin somo bibi inu agbonsasa
oni agba ti ko binu lomo re n po


Forget abt yur critics,this is typical africa tradition.
i dey feel u my guy

no "atheists" in foxholes.

bindex:

And how many people have you succeed in "saving". How many people have heard what donnie has said and have had a change of mind? If you have heard what donnie said and are now "saved" please raise up your hand.

haha.

donnie:

If your desire is to explore truth, is it not wise to start from the one who himself is truth: JESUS? Why dont you say like Paul (who saw the devotion of the men of Athens to the worship of the one whom they called THE UNKNOWN GOD), I declare unto you the one whom you ignorantly worship -Acts 17:23.

This possibility of 'ignorantly' worshipping God is very interesting. It would seem from discussion with proselytes of various religionisms that they believe that it is impossible to worship God unless the worshipper shares the same Concept (or intellectual understanding ) of God as they do.

First they define God and insist that you accept their definition otherwise it is not God you are worshipping.

And some would even go further and stipulate the manner in which he is to be worshipped, saying that if you do not worship in precisely the way they worship then you are not worshipping God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUjdKRfyAYU&NR=1

haha. I just watched it all the way to part 9. I enjoyed all of it

Pastor AIO:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUjdKRfyAYU&NR=1

@^

- Pastor AIO

The prince is offerring N1:50 as a prize? 

What a tight so-and-so git 

All said, less the juju etc

Lurve the Yoruba richness - the idioms, expressions, phrases, the colloquials and all . . .

@Yall

Let me make your day . . .

Here is Sunny Ade's "Ja fun mi" rendition of Ori - the head



[center][flash=425,345]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbIhmfZNBOE&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash][/center]

Classic Track.

My Ori fight for me

My creator fight for me

because
The Ori of Agbe bird fights for Agbe
Ori of Aluko bird fights for Aluko

My creator please don't forget me

Recognise:

[size=12pt]@^

- Pastor AIO

The prince is offerring N1:50 as a prize? 

What a tight so-and-so git 

All said, less the juju etc

Lurve the Yoruba richness - the idioms, expressions, phrases, the colloquials and all . . .

Oh boy, the way I rationalize am na like this. it was in ancient days before Inflation carry money go up.

But men, me too, I am in awe at the richness, the philosophical depths and the poetic beauty of our thought and language. And you know the really sad thing? When I was in Nigeria I had no appreciation for these things. I used to look down on these people. Can you imagine? The bush monkey snobbing the civilised human being. It's a funny world. Upside down.

Until I studied other philosophies from around the world then I rediscovered what was in my back door all the time. Now if I meet any awo people anywhere I make an extra effort to engage them in conversation.

Pastor AIO:

Oh boy, the way I rationalize am na like this. it was in ancient days before Inflation carry money go up.

But men, me too, I am in awe at the richness, the philosophical depths and the poetic beauty of our thought and language. And you know the really sad thing? When I was in Nigeria I had no appreciation for these things. I used to look down on these people. Can you imagine? The bush monkey snobbing the civilised human being. It's a funny world. Upside down.

Until I studied other philosophies from around the world then I rediscovered what was in my back door all the time. Now if I meet any awo people anywhere I make an extra effort to engage them in conversation.

Pastor, u don't even know how much i enjoyed watchin that video. When I was in Naija I would just change the channel and watch some western stuff or a movie. I just didn't understand what it was all about. Now I want to move to my village. I'm not even Joking. I see myself moving to Idanre and learnin the dialect and just settling in. This so called "civilization" shit is played out. It ain't 4 me.

Recognise:


@Yall

Let me make your day . . .

Here is Sunny Ade's "Ja fun mi" rendition of Ori - the head

[/size]

[center][flash=425,345]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbIhmfZNBOE&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash][/center]

How about this one from the same album.

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-CA_gU-7I4&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]
Can you imagine any nigerian artist singing such a song today about Esu biribiri?  His music will simply not sell. 

Esu biri biri is my protector
Forward is where this vehicle is taking me
Backwards is not where this vehicle is taking me
Now I know, I know , I know
I know the world, I know.

Which brings up the question pertinent to this thread . . . Who is Esu in Yoruba belief?  Is Esu really Satan?  Or is that just some idiotic conflation of ideas from different cultures.  When contemporary yorubas conflate Esu with Satan what does that do to their understanding of religion?  Does it not make their religious practice a distorted thing?

abeg can someone tell me how to put a link to a youtube video like Recognise did with Sunny Ade, so that you only have to click on play.

Also connected to the question of whether Esu can be accurately and honestly called Satan is another question.

How can Eledumare, according to yoruba traditional beliefs, be the same as Allah? Think about it. Their attributes are too different. Such conflation can only result in Nonsensical religion.

This thread delves into the matter.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-88347.0.html

This is the deepest thread i have ever come across on N'land.

I'm a christian ,but I'm still intrested in Yoruba culture,history and anthropology. . . . which I believe is being thoroughly experienced here.

Many years back,when I was much younger,my mother always used to refer to 'Ori'  and I was always kinda confused.

Pastor can u help differentiate between 'Ori' & 'Eleda'

I leave you with I.K Dairo(not Paul  )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GScVCWMOeMw&feature=related

You shall worship no other god,

John 14:6
,  Jesus is the way the truth and the life: no MAN comes to the FATHER (GOD), but
by JESUS.

Idol worshiping can never get you anywhere but hell, and its real, very real.


John 3
Gods plan for us is not that we should perish, but that you should have life
everlasting.

I encourage you today to choose life,

Ephe 2:8-10
For by grace are we saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Not of works, lest any man boast.

The grace of God is available for any man who will believe and receive all that
Christ Jesus did on the cross for him/her.

God bless.