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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy (4084 Views)
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Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 9:17pm On Jul 22, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: Even if you sponsor 1 million muslims to hajj, it does not matter So why justify an unconstitutional act on the basis of a rule made by a principal Whether it is your express intention on not, if you justify what is happeing in Nigeria You will rationalise it if someday (fi Audhu Bi Llahi) it happens in Saudi The day you open a thread to condemn someone being flogged in Nigeria (a secular state) then we can see this particular thread as a product of sincerity |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 9:22pm On Jul 22, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: http://thenationonlineng.net/new/norths-leaders-behind-plateau-crises-says-jang/ The governor who was represented by his Special Adviser on Religious Affairs, Rev. Choji Gyang said: “We keep asking ourselves why Plateau State is in crises. Why they are against Plateau is because we call ourselves Plateau the Christian state. And Islam is a very strong religion in the northern part of the country. So for Plateau to come out to say it is a Christian state it is against the wishes of those who don’t want any other religion outside Islam in northern Nigeria. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 1:45pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
BetaThings: C'mon man opinion and state policy are two different things. Plateau state is in no way officially a Christian state so your point on that is mooted. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 2:13pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
BetaThings: That rule was not made by the principal only so enforced. My point on the issue is why make it a subject of religious intolerance if it was a clear case of rule breaking? Several cases I know of teachers cutting students hair and even clothes because they do not conform to school rules does one make a case for freedom of expression which is also guaranteed by the constitution? IN another case I know of in a secondary school a student brought a BlackBerry Porsche to school in which such materials are outlawed, a teacher seized it and had it destroyed will there be a case for destruction of property? Point is you do not flaunt laid down rules and expect no one to take action. What I do condemn is savage beating as punishment should fit the infraction. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 4:59pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: Nobody has been able to show me who said specifically and with proof the person who said "we will make this country ungovernable should Jonathan win in 2011". But people repeat it daily But a Special Adviser on Religious Affairs to a GOVERNOR who represented the governor speaks on behalf of his boss and he is a common man! Now let us refute your attempt at trivialising this issue 1. The man is not a common man - He is a Reverend 2. The reverend is not speaking about building a vehicle for harvesting plankton from the Pacific. He is talking about Religion. His area of expertise 3. He did not make this statement at a family dinner in his village. He made while on official assignment 4. He did not make the speech on his own accord. He was representing the Governor, meaning that that is what the governors himself would have said had he come in person. When a man represents his boss, he uses his own mouth to convey the thoughts and position of his boss (Gov). He does not give his own opinion 5. Public speeches are used to announce or re-iterate some state policy. Otherwise an interviews granted by Okonjo Iweala would be ignored as the opinion of a "common man". The NASS typically responds and and invites her if necessary to clarify her statement 6. The matter at hand is not one to be joked with because it is sensitive. A governor explaining a phenomenon the way it is done in that report is saying (a) we have declared ourselves a Christian state (b) That declaration is well known to people. Otherwise you cannot accuse me of responding to what is in your mind (c) we are re-iterating our stand that we are a Christian state If a special adviser to Johnathan represents Johnathan at a public event says the US is a hostile state, No one, I repeat nobody in the state department will respond the way you have done on this matter You are free to raise issues but responding this way is novel and undermines your objectivity 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 5:15pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: This is a problem I have with your posts Who is being intolerant here? Is it the person who is trying to obey the law of Allah or the one trying to force a student to disobey her God? How is what I am wearing on my body which does not hurt anyone amount to intolerance? Now you conveniently kept quest about preaching in the bus. Is it required by divine law? Do you agree that it disturbs others? If Sunday became a work day we will see how Christians' "tolerance" and love for secularism will hold out Lord_Reed: None of the example mentioned relates to a matter sanctioned by divine law Blackberry, wearing long hair, sagging etc are matters of fashion. They come and go. So rigity on such is about ego The hijab is not a fashion issue that just emerged. Let me repeat, Allah requires muslim women to cover themselves. It is a divine order Tell me an alternative way of obeying Allah while conforming with this schoool rule which affects only Christians Tell me one divine law that Christians students are forced to disobey I could borrow from my friend without paying interest. This is an inconvenient alternative to not having an Islamic Bank But tell me how to get round the hijab thing without disobeying Allah 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 7:17pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
BetaThings: Sorry c'mon is abbrev. for come on so I wasn't referring to the adviser I was referring to you. Now you are asserting Plateau has been declared a christian state, did the state assembly ratify it? Is there an official gazette? The governor declaring it so does not make it so there are processes. Declaring sharia also required processes so how are you now staunchly declaring Plateau a christian state? Whose objectivity is in question if you can not show OFFICIAL PROOF/DOCUMENT? This is not trivialising it, if you can not show me no-denying-it proof then you are the one guilty of conjecture. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 8:01pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
BetaThings: Now you just muddying the discussion. Did I accuse hijab wearers of intolerance or suggest it? I kept quiet about the preaching in the bus thing because of the issue of divine commandment which you have brought up. I don't like discussions that will lead us to using such cards because I won't contend that with anybody. If you say hijab is divine commandment then I won't contest the matter with you likewise preaching is divine commandment for Christians so I will not discuss divine commandment based arguments. I went to school in the north, female Muslims did not wear hijab. If they were disobeying Allah this is the first time I am hearing it. They never clamored for it either and this is a school that had series of religious riots so I have no answer to your question. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 8:01pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
BetaThings: Now you just muddying the discussion. Did I accuse hijab wearers of intolerance or suggest it? I kept quiet about the preaching in the bus thing because of the issue of divine commandment which you have brought up. I don't like discussions that will lead us to using such cards because I won't contend that with anybody. If you say hijab is divine commandment then I won't contest the matter with you likewise preaching is divine commandment for Christians so I will not discuss divine commandment based arguments. I went to secondary school in the north, female Muslims did not wear hijab. If they were disobeying Allah this is the first time I am hearing it. They never clamored for it either and this is a school that had series of religious riots so I have no answer to your question. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 8:02pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
BTW is Jaiz Bank not an Islamic bank? |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 8:59am On Jul 24, 2013 |
Also state funds being used for Muslim themed decoration. Any complaints?
|
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 1:56pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: Also state funds being used for Muslim themed decoration. Any complaints?No, I am not complaining But like the standard you have set, where is the OFFICIAL DOCUMENT/PROOF that it from state fund BTW note that you are using a wrong example. I am sure that govt fund will be spent on religion in some states (Zamfara? Plateau? and in some SE states?) But at the FG level, it becomes something different |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 1:59pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: BTW is Jaiz Bank not an Islamic bank?Jaiz Bank predated Sanusi's time. It was licensed by a Christian CBN governor but it did not commence operations immediately Christians could not stop it though they wished to because the licence was already long granted Had Sanusi midwived it, the protest would have been greater And if there is tolerance why did they protest in the first place CAN president is already saying he wants to lead a protest on the constitutional amendment on renunciation of citizenship Does that amendment violate the beliefs and rights of Christians in any way? So what would the CAN president's protest will logically be about? This morning someone on Channels TV said that Christians would soon ask for their own court Hahaha What had they been waiting for? The reactive energy of Christians is vastly different from the impression they portray They are welcome to have as many Christian courts as possible. We believe in live and let live We don't and won't protest what others want; just leave us alone to practise our deen in full! |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 2:36pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: What is the opinion of the big man? So the governor and his adviser were inebriated while making that statement? Lord_Reed: So what is the purpose of the statement made by the governor through his adviser Lord_Reed:The state governor and his adviser don't know the process and you are the only one who do? And you have proof that all the conditions you mentioned have not been fulfilled? Lord_Reed:Your objectivity is the one in question, Sir You started this thread with a quote from Wikipedia. Please can you now bring OFFICIAL PROOF/DOCUMENT on the state policy of KSA on practice of other religions Did you every request for official proof/document for all the stories on Nairaland that are used to criticise Islam? Lord_Reed:How many posts have you started backed with official documents? Look around NL, people post based on newspaper reports. But I must bring official document after giving a link to the newspaper report. Otherwise I would be guilty of conjecture When I talk of bias, you say No. Christians can post on Islam based on newspaper reports, but Muslims must bring official copy of documents to be believed Anyway Can you show the following: 1. The official document declaring Zamfara a Sharia state 2. Death certificate for the mother of the first lady 3. the official documents for all the posts you have made here 2 Likes |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 8:45pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
@betathings I have the measure of the answer I needed in starting this thread, I won't descend into absurdity with you. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 11:26pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: @betathingsWhen someone starts hurling insults then I have my answer - the points are exhausted Again the day you (Lord Reed) start supporting newspaper reports with CERTIFIED TRUE COPIES of OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS, then I would be convinced of your sincerity 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 5:10am On Jul 25, 2013 |
@betathings Calling your last response absurd is not an insult but the truth. Patience Jonathan's mother? What has that got to do with what we are discussing? Similarly your responses to the Jaiz Bank question I asked and the picture I posted are so far off it begs the question. I came to inquire about Saudi I have gotten my answer. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by vedaxcool(m): 6:27am On Jul 25, 2013 |
DEBUNKED AND DEMYSTIFIED Betathins WELLLLLLLLDONEEEEE |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 3:12pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: @betathingsNo you cannot judge this matter. Because like Chief Ojukwu said "you arr involved"! So I respectfully disagree that it is the truth Lord_Reed: We both know she is dead. But did we see any official document/proof to arrive at that conclusion If you like ignore DPJ's mother. But take any story on public policy - South Africa easing visa restriction on Nigerian officials, Nigeria signing a loan agreement with China, Lagos state insisting in inquest upon death etc My point, we always rely on newspaper reports in real life and on NL as the basis of our discussion Your novel requirement - requiring me to provide official document to back up a newspaper report - is novel and unfair Muslims are criticised based on newspaper reports and we do not make production of official documents a pre-condition for "accepting such stories". If you recall the thread on hoaxes and fabrications, we on our own wen to to dig up the rebutal of those fabrications against Islam. when those "news" first broke, the OPs never expected us to ask for proof. And we did not! Lord_Reed:It also begs the question of why Christians rose up massively against Islamic Banking, does it not? Actions speak here. Do they not? Lord_Reed:The thread also enabled me to confirm/demonstrate the insincerity of people who hold themselves out as tolerant and objective, no matter how courtly their approach might be Thanks for the opportunity! 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 3:13pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
vedaxcool: DEBUNKED AND DEMYSTIFIEDThe guys have feet of clay but they are good at hiding it |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 4:53pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
BetaThings: You demonstrated no such thing as your answers only sort to escalate ill feelings and deviate from the topic at hand. Most of the other responders stuck to topic, only you chose to escalate it to an us vs them issue. You would do well to treat requests for information or reasonable discussions with the cordiality they deserve rather than the paranoid lampoonings you displayed here. 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by vedaxcool(m): 11:46am On Jul 26, 2013 |
^ Rather than resort to insults when r going to produce any official document backing all the claims you so far mad? U clearly brought this u standards to nl so live up to you reputation unless u were simply being dishonest or refusing to acknowledge the truth this behavior does speak well of u. Betathings gave u the answer u deserve. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 1:07pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
vedaxcool: ^ The issue of documents only came up because BetaThings claims that Plateau State has declared itself a Christian state, the only supporting evidence is a paragraph in an online newspaper. I googled it before I even asked him of a link; Google returned no relevant results so how are we to substantiate this claim of a Christian state when there are no popular references to draw from? Besides this you and BetaThings would be mischievous if you claim you don't know that such declarations must be ratified by the state assembly before it can be official so where is the ratification by the state assembly? This is the simple documentation I was referring to. I would be foolish to require anyone to bring hard copy proofs to an online forum, independently verifiable sources are what we rely on, BetaThings could not show proof beyond an out of way newspaper article that does not show up on the first page of results when you google the subject matter. EDIT: Brief History of Shari'ah - Part 111: Full implementation of Shariah in zamfara - Excerpt I was not belligerent to BetaThings or anyone on this thread so I believe this discussion should have maintained the civil tone it started with. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by vedaxcool(m): 1:28pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
All this long epistle simply because u cannot live up to a sstandard u brought up, at the end u want to be judge, jury and executioner in your world. What BT did was to expose who u really r, deols said that much. Accusing him of belligerence is simply being a bad sport |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 1:51pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
vedaxcool: All this long epistle simply because u cannot live up to a sstandard u brought up, at the end u want to be judge, jury and executioner in your world. What BT did was to expose who u really r, deols said that much. Accusing him of belligerence is simply being a bad sport LoL! |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 3:55pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Lord_Reed:a story with names and position of the personalities involved stated? why don't you stick to the truth The Nation is just an online newspaper? A paper edited by Sam Omatseye? Did you go through the print version of that newspaper for that day? How come the state did not refute it? How is the link I gave different from any link to Vanguard, The Guardian or The Economist, NYT or WSJ? As a practical matter, let us assume that the assembly is not involved, when the executive in a state declare a position is that not what they will have actually implement Is Oteh not SEC DG inspite of what NASS is ssying? Lord_Reed:It is not every law that is actually given publicity Some laws get to public attention when they are confronted with it at implementation BTW is Ihejirika not CAS? Is EZeoba not CNS? Is Badeh not CArS? But a judge has said that their appointment should have been preceded by senate confirmation. The presidency has not challenged the ruling Are they not directing troops now? When their appointments were made did you and others refuse to recognise them on account of the lack of senate confirmation? How is this standard you request of me applied in practice? Have you ever seen reports by the major newspapers (Guardian, Punch, Nation, ThisDay, Vanguard etc) contested here on NL? The standars of proof you require does not apply in practice let alone on NL Lord_Reed: I hope you know that what you are saying is that I planted that story. That I have the clout to hack into the servers of the Nations newspapers to put the story there and I did it? Lord_Reed:I take it that paranoia is your choice endearment for those that you adore? Can you tell me any indecent language that I have directed at you? I believe you are actually flaunting tinsel civility |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 4:08pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Lord_Reed:Your post is basically an us v them issue. Is it not? Muslims can worship freely in KSA, Christians cannot! Or what other explanation is there Please don't do this reverse discrimination An attitude on NL is underlayed with the us v them mentality Has any Christian girl been beaten because of her religion. when it happens to muslims what did Christians do? Where were the right activists when corporeal punishment which most schools disavow was wickedly applied to muslims I documented facts and you are saying I should run away from the conclusion If you hate the us v them mentality, do something about it! Go to the front page now and pick up a political or religious posts and read the comments Don't pretend it does not exist. Your fellow christians inveigled Seun to put a warning on posts in the Islamic section They turned around to accuse Muslims (who objected to the warning from the outset) of intolerance! No muslim has ever queried why a Christian pots appears on the fp Christians either do and/or rain abuses on us while commenting Lord_Reed:Yours was not a request for information It was subtle religious blackmail As for paranoia, I know of terms from psychology that I can readily use on people, but it is not mys style |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 6:11pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
@BetaThings Take a look again at my OP, this thread started not because I have a hidden agenda. Maclatunji himself suggested the thread in other to clarify the Saudi policy. I simply took him up on the offer; nothing more. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 6:19pm On Jul 30, 2013 |
Here's am interesting piece: Time Magazine reports that negotiations are currently underway between the government of Saudi Arabia and the Vatican, about the possibility of opening the first Christian church in the Kingdom. At this time, Islam is the "official" religion of Saudi Arabia, and the only one permitted to be worshipped publicly. Some people argue that freedom of religion should prevail, and that Muslims should reciprocate the freedom of religion enjoyed in non-Muslim countries. Others hold that Saudi Arabia is the center of Islamic history and culture, and therefore Islam should have special status in the Kingdom. http://islam.about.com/od/saudiarabia/i/ksachurch.htm ------------------------------------- And suddenly the Muslim section is shut off from non Muslims. LoL! |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by Nobody: 7:48am On Aug 01, 2013 |
Ha ha ha,im laughing mosquez r built in europe n america but churches are not built in d arabian peninsula |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 9:53am On Jun 17, 2020 |
logicboy: LoL! Thanks for the compliment and reminder. I had high hopes for this thread, I had to just take what I got. |
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