Mr Troll: I stated 2 actually. Look again...

Do you now agree that the brain is unconscious ? BTW I didn't say matter doesn't exist without consciousness. I said IT ISN'T KNOWN TO EXIST without consciousness.

Wow ! How illogical. I'll cut you some slack given I know contradictions are necessary and systemic.

Logicboy03:



This is pure nonsense. Information can be both material and immaterial.

Priceless ! Saved. This [b]logic[/b]boy adheres to the law of non-contradiction.

Logicboy03:
You are now arguing that information is always immaterial. How wrong.

Very correct in fact. The symbols you now read as my words are hardly information. What informs is your consciousness ascribing or deriving meaning from these symbols which the information is represented is. So what is it ? Is information the word, or the electrical charges in your phone or tablet's RAM or the neurons dancing around in your visual cortex as you read this ? Or is it the immaterial knowing derived from the types of materials I just described.

Logicboy03:
Explain how one will understand a route without a physical source of information.

He can't.

Logicboy03:
That is, without someone verbally (sound-vibration-physical) describing it or you seeing a map (A map on a sheet of paper-physical) or personally driving around the route (i.e looking at physical roads and buildings).

I see. And if the person is unconscious of if it is a robot will it be said to be meaningfully receiving information. Have you seen a map inform someone who is UNINFORMED about the concept of maps ? Guy, you dull.

Logicboy03:
You sir, are full of crap.

Says another nitwit.

Uyi Iredia: Wow ! How illogical. I'll cut you some slack given I know contradictions are necessary and systemic.

Uyi Iredia:
Priceless ! Saved. This logicboy adheres to the law of non-contradiction.

SMH.

First, let me school you out of your ignorance. The law of non-contradiction is limited to strictly defined or unambiguous or single layered/dimensional words.

For instance "christianity" is a multidimensional and widely defined word. Christianity can be said to be trinitarian and non-trinitarian at the same time. Christianity can be said to be "pro-slavery" and "anti-slavery" at the same time. Unless you define christianity narrowly, it will remain with contradictory features.

Same thing with time. Time is the past and the future. Time can be material and immaterial. In astrophysics, spacetime is a very material concept. It expands. However, when talking about the past and future, time is a very immaterial and abstract concept. You need to narrowly define "time" to get a non-contradictory explanation of time. If you define time as spacetime, you know that, you have narrowly t=defined it to have very clear limits.


Same thing with information. It is a concept that means many things. It can be both material and immaterial. I will go further later on this.

HOWEVER, PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU LAUGH AT SOMEONE EXPLAINING SOMETHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, YOU MIGHT BE LAUGHING AT YOUR OWN IGNORANCE. JUST LIKE HOW YOU DID NOW.

Uyi Iredia:
Very correct in fact. The symbols you now read as my words are hardly information. What informs is your consciousness ascribing or deriving meaning from these symbols which the information is represented is. So what is it ? Is information the word, or the electrical charges in your phone or tablet's RAM or the neurons dancing around in your visual cortex as you read this ? Or is it the immaterial knowing derived from the types of materials I just described.

Yawn. You seem to be very desperate to mock me and that is why you carry on with these ill-conceived arguments.

Information is a multidimensional word as stated earlier.


But lets focus on the material side of it; (I wont give a purely logical explanation, I will give a practical example since you are too dull)

1 + 1 = 2 <<< See? you can easily understand it! The information that I am passing to you is clear.

une et une es deux <<<<< the same thing but not coherent to you (especially if you dont understand french).


The point is that information relies on the physical representation of things. There is a physicality to it. You can see that once I changed the symbols (even though the information is the same), you didnt understand it.

Two types of information
-The physical information (the map, the symbols) that you must physically see.
-The "floating" information- the abstract meaning behind the symbols that the writer and the speaker consciously create/interprete in their minds.

Uyi Iredia:

Logicboy03:
Explain how one will understand a route without a physical source of information.

He can't.

Yet you argue with the physicality of information. SMH

Uyi Iredia:
I see. And if the person is unconscious of if it is a robot will it be said to be meaningfully receiving information. Have you seen a map inform someone who is UNINFORMED about the concept of maps ? Guy, you dull.

I said earlier;

Two types of information
-The physical information (the map, the symbols) that you must physically see.
-The "floating" information- the abstract meaning behind the symbols that the writer and the speaker consciously create/interprete in their minds.

Now, wouldnt it be clear that the uninformed would lack the ability to comprehend the second type of information- "floating" information? Does that change the fact that the map is physical or that one needs the physical representation of a route to learn it?

Gaddem dunce

Uyi Iredia:
Says another nitwit.

You are dull....very dull

mazaje: The brain is you because without it there is no you. . . .You can not even think without a brain, you can not chose to think about something and then decide to do so if your brain is malfunction, many people with brain problems try to reason, think or remember things but fail to do so because they have problems with their brains. . .But when you brain decides to go haywire, whether you like it or not you just follow it as it leads. . .

Dude, it amazes me how oblivious you are to the fact that you keep conceding my point.

First of all, I think the problem you have is that you are confused between association and identity.

"Oxygen is you because without it there is no you.....You cannot even think without oxygen, you can not chose to think about something and then decide to do so if your oxygen supply malfunctions......."

Notice that X (insert oxygen, brain, heart e.t.c.) is associated to you but is not your identity. Furthermore

".....many people with brain problems try to reason, think or remember things but fail to do so because they have problems with their brains. . .But when you brain decides to go haywire, whether you like it or not you just follow it as it leads. . ."

Notice again from the above that there is a You trying to use a brain. If it isn't clear to you at this point that you are not your brain, then I can't help you.

How does brain activity not control consciousness?. . .You analogy with the TV is just flawed because TV signal is Very different from brain and consciousness. . .TV signal is sent by something, TV can exist and perform other function without a signal. . .The human can not exist or function completely without the brain. . .Consciousness is a function of the brain.

I think my TV analogy was apt because it shows that just like how when the TV is switched of, it doesn't follow that the signal has been destroyed, so also the death of the brain doesn't mean that the conscious being has been destroyed.

thehomer:
This is another point of your confusion. The information represented by the map isn't the map. The taxi drivers create information in their brain just that they don't do it with the map. So, their brains do create information.

Wrong sir. The information on the piece of paper (or whatever device bears it) IS the map. This information is objective and remains the same whether the taxi drivers understand it or not. The taxi drivers' brains do not create the information.

This is all true but it isn't really comparable to the situation with the taxi drivers.

It is good to see that you admit that it is true. I maintain that it is exactly the same type of scenario. However since you disagree, you are welcome to show how they are different.

Of course there are non-physical representations. e.g the number 1 can be a non-physical representation of the number of moons the earth has.

Lol, and what would be the physical representation of the number of moons the earth has? It appears you've perfected the art of chasing your own tail

Whether it is trivial is also important because merely conveying trivial information is pointless. Saying that non-matter affects matter is trivial. Temperature also affects matter. So does sound, gravity and lots of other things.

Yawn. The point has already been made. Triviality is a subjective opinion and if that is the best counter argument you can offer, then I have no need keep responding to something that has already been settled.

Logicboy03:
This is pure nonsense. Information can be both material and immaterial.

You are now arguing that information is always immaterial. How wrong.


Explain how one will understand a route without a physical source of information. That is, without someone verbally (sound-vibration-physical) describing it or you seeing a map (A map on a sheet of paper-physical) or personally driving around the route (i.e looking at physical roads and buildings).


You sir, are full of crap.

No further comments

@Uyi, you really shouldn't have bothered answering him but thanks anyway sha.

Mr anony:
1. Physics has nothing to do with the fact that the non-material effects the material.

2. Asking me what generated the non-material is irrelevant because the answer will not tell us whether or not non-material things can effect matter. You are only trying to add one more link to the causal chain in the hope of leading to infinite regress. It appears to me that you have implicitly accepted the fact that there is a direct causal link from the non-material to the material.

Which infinite regress bros? I've been very clear; source is matter. Physics DEMANDS it unless you can show otherwise, simples.

Mr anony:
No further comments

@Uyi, you really shouldn't have bothered answering him but thanks anyway sha.

Yawn

Mr anony:
Wrong sir. The information on the piece of paper (or whatever device bears it) IS the map.

This is why I say you're confused. Carefully read what I actually said. I'll repeat it again here. I said "the information represented by the map isn't the map". i.e what the map represents isn't the map, the map represents the relevant part of the city.

Mr anony:
This information is objective and remains the same whether the taxi drivers understand it or not. The taxi drivers' brains do not create the information.

More confusion. Information is subjective by nature. If the taxi driver doesn't understand it, then it isn't information to that taxi driver. Your sentence in bold is another manifestation of your confusion. Taxi drivers create information in their brains otherwise they won't be able to navigate at all. You either accept this fact or admit that you're not addressing what I'm saying.

Mr anony:
It is good to see that you admit that it is true. I maintain that it is exactly the same type of scenario. However since you disagree, you are welcome to show how they are different.

I never said it was false. You're merely making yet another trivial statement. My main point was to show you that information is created in the brains of the taxi drivers. Your disagreement with this basic fact is what I'm challenging. The difference in the two scenarios is that in the case of the taxi drivers, they create information from their experience in the city while in the case of the illiterates, when they learn to read, they create information from the book in their own minds.

Mr anony:
Lol, and what would be the physical representation of the number of moons the earth has? It appears you've perfected the art of chasing your own tail

The actual moon. This is what happens when you're having some difficulty considering abstractions.

Mr anony:
Yawn. The point has already been made. Triviality is a subjective opinion and if that is the best counter argument you can offer, then I have no need keep responding to something that has already been settled.

This point on your trivial statements isn't meant to be a counter argument, it is to stimulate you to take the time to produce something substantive.

Mr anony:
1. Physics has nothing to do with the fact that the non-material effects the material.

Physics has everything to do with the fact that the non-material affects the material.

thehomer:

Physics has everything to do with the fact that the non-material affects the material.

Explain how so without special pleading.

Logicboy03:


Yawn

Done with your br€@$tmilk. Now off to bed. Hope your brain resets properly by the time you wake up.


Disclaimer: Not an attempt at humor. It's not my talent.

Logicboy03:

First, let me school you out of your ignorance. The law of non-contradiction is limited to strictly defined or unambiguous or single layered/dimensional words.

For instance "christianity" is a multidimensional and widely defined word. Christianity can be said to be trinitarian and non-trinitarian at the same time. Christianity can be said to be "pro-slavery" and "anti-slavery" at the same time. Unless you define christianity narrowly, it will remain with contradictory features.

Same thing with time. Time is the past and the future. Time can be material and immaterial. In astrophysics, spacetime is a very material concept. It expands. However, when talking about the past and future, time is a very immaterial and abstract concept. You need to narrowly define "time" to get a non-contradictory explanation of time. If you define time as spacetime, you know that, you have narrowly t=defined it to have very clear limits.

Didn't waste time reading this.

Logicboy03:
Same thing with information. It is a concept that means many things. It can be both material and immaterial. I will go further later on this.

I see. Is consciousness also material and immaterial ?

Logicboy03:
HOWEVER, PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU LAUGH AT SOMEONE EXPLAINING SOMETHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, YOU MIGHT BE LAUGHING AT YOUR OWN IGNORANCE. JUST LIKE HOW YOU DID NOW.

Actually I make it a point to laff at my ignorance before noting the 'knowledge' proferred by some.

Logicboy03:
Yawn. You seem to be very desperate to mock me and that is why you carry on with these ill-conceived arguments.

Wow !

Logicboy03:
Information is a multidimensional word as stated earlier.

Yeah ! Just like humans are both dead and alive. Or God exists but doesn't exist. Very multi-dimensional kuo ?

Logicboy03:
But lets focus on the material side of it; (I wont give a purely logical explanation, I will give a practical example since you are too dull)

Actually, you call me a sophist. Okay I'll be dull from here on.

Logicboy03:
1 + 1 = 2 <<< See? you can easily understand it! The information that I am passing to you is clear.

Nah ! 1 + 1 = 8.

Logicboy03:
une et une es deux <<<<< the same thing but not coherent to you (especially if you dont understand french).

Wetin be dis ?

Logicboy03:
The point is that information relies on the physical representation of things.

Okay. So what ?

Logicboy03:
There is a physicality to it. You can see that once I changed the symbols (even though the information is the same), you didnt understand it.

How dat one take concern me ? She you smoke information, chop am, drink am join ? Craze dey wori u.

Logicboy03:
Two types of information
-The physical information (the map, the symbols) that you must physically see.
-The "floating" information- the abstract meaning behind the symbols that the writer and the speaker consciously create/interprete in their minds.

This gbolo dey yan nansense !

Logicboy03:
Yet you argue with the physicality of information. SMH

Fisika wetin ? Shake your head troway for gutta !

Logicboy03:
I said earlier;

Said ? Or typed. U smart gan.

Logicboy03:
[s]Two types of information
-The physical information (the map, the symbols) that you must physically see.
-The "floating" information- the abstract meaning behind the symbols that the writer and the speaker consciously create/interprete in their minds.

Now, wouldnt it be clear that the uninformed would lack the ability to comprehend the second type of information- "floating" information? Does that change the fact that the map is physical or that one needs the physical representation of a route to learn it?[/s]

Anoda misyan.

Logicboy03:
Gaddem dunce

Your papa ! Were !

Logicboy03:
You are dull....very dull

Ehh ! I dull and I knooow it. I just dey laff !

www.EvolutionvsGod.com

^^watch the video there, and ponder your beliefs

Uyi Iredia:

Explain how so without special pleading.

This is the sort of ridiculous statement you make. Do you know anything about physics? Have you heard about gravity? How about magnetism? Do you think they're material objects that have effect on matter?

If you're this ignorant, then what you need is some education of basic principles in physics and not me referring you to articles on elementary physics.

thehomer:

This is the sort of ridiculous statement you make. Do you know anything about physics? Have you heard about gravity? How about magnetism? Do you think they're material objects that have effect on matter?

If you're this ignorant, then what you need is some education of basic principles in physics and not me referring you to articles on elementary physics.

'. . . ridiculous statement . . .' says the clown. Explain how gravity attracts and how magnetism attracts or repels. If you understand the physics as you suggest, present simple explanations here on gravity and magnetism, I'll assume they are immaterial unless you state otherwise.

Chibuebem: www.EvolutionvsGod.com

^^watch the video there, and ponder your beliefs

If it's me you are talking to know that I've watched the video and pondered. I would like to see the unedited version to confirm that atheists really responded that way, if that's true, for people who uphold logic and reason, they fared badly. I can allow that, humans err.

Uyi Iredia:

If it's me you are talking to know that I've watched the video and pondered. I would like to see the unedited version to confirm that atheists really responded that way, if that's true, for people who uphold logic and reason, they fared badly. I can allow that, humans err.

yep, they fared really badly. The interviewer destroyed each of their major strongholds and showed the foolishness of man.
Yes, these people think they're smart, but they are men you see. And they need the power of the message.

Uyi Iredia:

'. . . ridiculous statement . . .' says the clown. Explain how gravity attracts and how magnetism attracts or repels. If you understand the physics as you suggest, present simple explanations here on gravity and magnetism, I'll assume they are immaterial unless you state otherwise.

Another demonstration of your failure of comprehension.

I said:

thehomer:
Physics has everything to do with the fact that the non-material affects the material.

You said:

Uyi Iredia:
Explain how so without special pleading.

I tell you to school yourself in physics and you return to tell me that you'll accept my initial statement unless I contradict myself? Are you intoxicated or something?

Uyi Iredia:

Didn't waste time reading this.



I see. Is consciousness also material and immaterial ?



Actually I make it a point to laff at my ignorance before noting the 'knowledge' proferred by some.




Wow !



Yeah ! Just like humans are both dead and alive. Or God exists but doesn't exist. Very multi-dimensional kuo ?



Actually, you call me a sophist. Okay I'll be dull from here on.



Nah ! 1 + 1 = 8.




Wetin be dis ?



Okay. So what ?



How dat one take concern me ? She you smoke information, chop am, drink am join ? Craze dey wori u.



This gbolo dey yan nansense !




Fisika wetin ? Shake your head troway for gutta !




Said ? Or typed. U smart gan.




Anoda misyan.




Your papa ! Were !



Ehh ! I dull and I knooow it. I just dey laff !

Pls move along.

You hve been reduced to trolling after realising how silly your arguments were

Uyi Iredia:

Didn't waste time reading this.



I see. Is consciousness also material and immaterial ?



Actually I make it a point to laff at my ignorance before noting the 'knowledge' proferred by some.




Wow !



Yeah ! Just like humans are both dead and alive. Or God exists but doesn't exist. Very multi-dimensional kuo ?



Actually, you call me a sophist. Okay I'll be dull from here on.



Nah ! 1 + 1 = 8.




Wetin be dis ?



Okay. So what ?



How dat one take concern me ? She you smoke information, chop am, drink am join ? Craze dey wori u.



This gbolo dey yan nansense !




Fisika wetin ? Shake your head troway for gutta !




Said ? Or typed. U smart gan.




Anoda misyan.




Your papa ! Were !



Ehh ! I dull and I knooow it. I just dey laff !

smh.

Logicboy03:


Pls move along.

You hve been reduced to trolling after realising how silly your arguments were

Says the prat. You say information is immaterial and material. And you fail to admit that such is contradictory. Your brain's a mush.

Mr Troll: smh.

Kpele. Don't let it fall off.

thehomer:

Another demonstration of your failure of comprehension.

I said:


You said:


I tell you to school yourself in physics and you return to tell me that you'll accept my initial statement unless I contradict myself? Are you intoxicated or something?

The peabrain is at it again. You make some dumb statement on physics explaining how the immaterial affects the material. I ask you to explain without special pleading. You do just that by pleading gravity and magnetism with some mumbo-jumbo on understanding of physics. Then I ask for a simple explanation of gravity and magnetism to back up your claim. Then the peabrain does nuffin but shoot peas.

Uyi Iredia:

Says the prat. You say information is immaterial and material. And you fail to admit that such is contradictory. Your brain's a mush.

Wow.....so you read my whole comment without understanding? You lack intelligence......here is the comment again;

Logicboy03:


First, let me school you out of your ignorance. [size=18pt]The law of non-contradiction is limited to strictly defined or unambiguous or single layered/dimensional words. [/size]

For instance "christianity" is a multidimensional and widely defined word. Christianity can be said to be trinitarian and non-trinitarian at the same time. Christianity can be said to be "pro-slavery" and "anti-slavery" at the same time. Unless you define christianity narrowly, it will remain with contradictory features.

Same thing with time. Time is the past and the future. Time can be material and immaterial. In astrophysics, spacetime is a very material concept. It expands. However, when talking about the past and future, time is a very immaterial and abstract concept. You need to narrowly define "time" to get a non-contradictory explanation of time. If you define time as spacetime, you know that, you have narrowly t=defined it to have very clear limits.


[size=18pt]Same thing with information. It is a concept that means many things. It can be both material and immaterial[/size]. I will go further later on this.

HOWEVER, PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU LAUGH AT SOMEONE EXPLAINING SOMETHING YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, YOU MIGHT BE LAUGHING AT YOUR OWN IGNORANCE. JUST LIKE HOW YOU DID NOW.




Yawn. You seem to be very desperate to mock me and that is why you carry on with these ill-conceived arguments.

Information is a multidimensional word as stated earlier.


But lets focus on the material side of it; (I wont give a purely logical explanation, I will give a practical example since you are too dull)

1 + 1 = 2 <<< See? you can easily understand it! The information that I am passing to you is clear.

une et une es deux <<<<< the same thing but not coherent to you (especially if you dont understand french).


The point is that information relies on the physical representation of things. There is a physicality to it. You can see that once I changed the symbols (even though the information is the same), you didnt understand it.

[size=18pt]Two types of information
-The physical information (the map, the symbols) that you must physically see.
-The "floating" information- the abstract meaning behind the symbols that the writer and the speaker consciously create/interprete in their minds.
[/size]



Y

^^^FAIL Your tap-dancing up there doesn't erase the simple fact that saying information is immaterial and material is contradictory. You shold know the last person you can impress with vocabs is me.

Uyi Iredia:

The peabrain is at it again. You make some dumb statement on physics explaining how the immaterial affects the material. I ask you to explain without special pleading. You do just that by pleading gravity and magnetism with some mumbo-jumbo on understanding of physics. Then I ask for a simple explanation of gravity and magnetism to back up your claim. Then the peabrain does nuffin but shoot peas.

You're too stupidly dull to be informed. What is dumb about the fact that gravity and magnetism are non-material and they affect matter? If you don't know that gravity and magnetism are non-material and they affect matter, then you're too uninformed to continue this conversation.

Uyi Iredia: ^^^FAIL Your tap-dancing up there doesn't erase the simple fact that saying information is immaterial and material is contradictory. You shold know the last person you can impress with vocabs is me.

Lol.....like The Homer said......you are too dull to be informed

thehomer:

You're too stupidly dull to be informed. What is dumb about the fact that gravity and magnetism are non-material and they affect matter? If you don't know that gravity and magnetism are non-material and they affect matter, then you're too uninformed to continue this conversation.

'. . . stupidly dull' very 'good' syntax I see. Peabrain. I asked you explain how gravity and magnetism affect matter. But so far, you tap-dance around it. If you are empty on that score, let me know.

Logicboy03:

Lol.....like The Homer said......you are too dull to be informed

See this mugu ! If your wisdom involves stating information is immaterial and material, and that it isn't contradictory. I must mock it.

Uyi Iredia:

See this mugu ! If your wisdom involves stating information is immaterial and material, and that it isn't contradictory. I must mock it.

Imbe

cile


Ehem..............is a hemaphrodite a man or a woman?
Is time material or immaterial?
Is sampling random or non random?

Uyi Iredia:

'. . . stupidly dull' very 'good' syntax I see. Peabrain. I asked you explain how gravity and magnetism affect matter. But so far, you tap-dance around it. If you are empty on that score, let me know.

This will be my last response to you here you punk child. Just go out and play with sand because that looks like all you can handle at this stage.

My explaining how gravity and magnetism affect matter won't change the fact that gravity and magnetism aren't matter but they affect matter.

I've said this before. You ignorantly tried to challenge it but decided that you would now accept what I said. If you really want to know how they affect matter, you can start by looking it up on Wikipedia. I'm not your physics teacher and I pity whoever it was that taught you or would try to teach you.