Given the ongoing debate on whether or not certain senators broke the moral code by advocatimg marriage for underage girls. I thought it will help to remind our people that 17yr old US soldiers in the warfront in Iraq were blown up daily.

I have attached a link showing age of enlistment for militaries around the world.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlistment_age_by_country

In most countries, including those we look upto for direction, US and England, the conscription age is dropped below 17 if the country is at war. The voluntary service in time of peace is 17.

If a family has the freewill to exercise voluntary choice and enlist their 13yr old, 16yr and 17yr olds for combat and is morally okay, then why is a similar freechoice to give their 16, 17yr olds into marriage an immoral choice?

Is it okay to send these kids into death but not okay for them to reproduce?

You never get am........... Can you give out ur 17yrs old daughter to one 55yrs old man?

FBI/CIA:
You never get am........... Can you give out ur 17yrs old daughter to one 55yrs old man?

You see, this is where most of you impulsive commentators went wrong. A 16yr old marriage does not necessarily mean matrimony to an elderly man.

A 16yr old can be married to a young partner within her own age bracket.

Dudu_Negro:
Is it okay to send these kids into death but not okay for them to reproduce?

You missing the point here Chief Negro, I think that any one from Northern Nigeria with a conscience should fight first for the Child's Right Act, and next for Section 29 (4) to be removed from our constitution. We cannot keep pretending that they are not dragging the entire country with the weight of street children and child brides.

There is by my estimation (and many studies), more poverty in the North than anywhere else in the country. And that is not by chance. It serves the interest of Northern politicians to keep the Northern masses uneducated and poor. And to keep the women subjugated. It is shameful that any self respecting Northern person will support girl child marriage at this present day and time. Even for selfish political reasons Northerners should be at the forefront of the fight against legal pedophilia. Because while they are marrying of their 13 year old sisters, their counterparts in the south are probably trying to go to school. While southern girls get pens, their counterpart in the north get pen.ise5.

Maxymilliano:

You missing the point here Chief Negro, I think that any one from Northern Nigeria with a conscience should fight first for the Child's Right Act, and next for Section 29 (4) to be removed from our constitution. We cannot keep pretending that they are not dragging the entire country with the weight of street children and child brides.

There is by my estimation (and many studies), more poverty in the North than anywhere else in the country. And that is not by chance. It serves the interest of Northern politicians to keep the Northern masses uneducated and poor. And to keep the women subjugated. It is shameful that any self respecting Northern person will support girl child marriage at this present day and time. Even for selfish political reasons Northerners should be at the forefront of the fight against legal pedophilia. Because while they are marrying of their 13 year old sisters, their counterparts in the south are probably trying to go to school. While southern girls get pens, their counterpart in the north get pen.ise5.

Im holding the position that generally, early marriage is a traditional African institution. This is not a North/South battle line but moreso that we are caught up in this new world order in which we strive to belong in the "fraternity of progressive societies". Who defines our progression? Should it be defined within the customs and creeds that supports biological rhythyms or should we just altogether reduce every aspect of our life and society to the regulations of political creeds?

Should we start outlawing firewood and create a constitutional clause to give rule to gas and electrical cooking?

Isnt the globe talking about ecological responsibility and isnt natural biological rhthyms part of this push forward for renewed human evolutions?

What needs to be regulated is the intolerable and unacceptable practice of men marrying girls/women under certain age bracket. We must not regulate the choice to wed a 16yr old girl to a suitor of her peer.

the clause in question has been part of the Nigerian constitution before now, but nobody made noise about it.

in the decades or centuries its been there, how many of the people shouting know anyone who is underage and married?

those things have been unheard of for generations.

I'm more concerned about the 9 year old boy who "married" a 75 year old woman in some african country- nairalanders were on the thread but mostly voiced approval.

is that not madness.

Tpia,

I doubt many of the respondents gave deep thought to the issue before they started responding. There is this assumption or perharps a stereotypes that anytime a underage girl is married the suitor is always an older man and that its a Northerner. There are legitimate marriages between 15, 16, 17yr old girls and boys their age bracket and this must not be outlawed.

Changing the provisions of the constitution might regrettably remove that option for young suitors.

The response from this Senator from Akure showed that he did not understand the constitution he voted in favor of and even after the outcry from oppoaition he still did not understand it when he gave the apology.
Shame on LP!

I doubt many of the respondents gave deep thought to the issue before they started responding. There is this assumption or perharps a stereotypes that anytime a underage girl is married the suitor is always an older man and that its a Northerner. There are legitimate marriages between 15, 16, 17yr old girls and boys their age bracket and this must not be outlawed.

Changing the provisions of the constitution might regrettably remove that option for young suitors.

^ that used to be the case in ancient times, but nowadays its relatively rare to see females marrying at such young ages.

besides, any girl who is married off like that, would preclude the possibility of her going to school.

likewise for the boy, very few teenagers have the financial ability to cope with a family, not to mention they're still kids at that age.

in nigeria, not sure what the legal definition of a minor is, but a teenager is still a minor and as such, cant make decisions that would be binding like an adult.

if any such marriage occurs, it would have to be without legal backing, maybe a traditional or familial one if present.

Dudu_Negro: Tpia,

I doubt many of the respondents gave deep thought to the issue before they started responding. There is this assumption or perharps a stereotypes that anytime a underage girl is married the suitor is always an older man and that its a Northerner. There are legitimate marriages between 15, 16, 17yr old girls and boys their age bracket and this must not be outlawed.

Changing the provisions of the constitution might regrettably remove that option for young suitors.

The response from this Senator from Akure showed that he did not understand the constitution he voted in favor of and even after the outcry from oppoaition he still did not understand it when he gave the apology.
Shame on LP!

actually, the senator understood more than people know.

But we are talking about Nigeria here not what obtains in the UK. In Nigeria enlisting in the army starts at 18 years. A country has its right to decide what it wants or not, whether it be fashioned like identical twins with another country. Case in point, the homosexuality saga in the senate. Even identical twins do have differences in tastes.
If Nigeria is really fashioned like the US and UK, we would be like them economically and otherwise. So following your argument, you're saying since these countries enlist their kids at 13, 16 in the army, why can't they marry? Good question. It paves way for my own question...since Nigeria enlists you in the army at 18, why can't a girl be married off at 18?

The only moral question in this saga I can think of is 'can the girl child be given the right to enjoy her childhood'? Why are we not deliberating on whether a boy can marry or not? Why the girl child?

Mr Dudu Negro, I have saddened when Nigerians always look for flimsy and untenable arguments to support their vices and vanities. What is bad is bad and what is acceptable is acceptable.


You are probably supporting child marriage probably because you have engaged in it or you see this debate as an anti-muslim debate. Meanwhile most muslims in Nigeria and the world over is against child marriage.


You tried bringing in an exceptional situation of war when child soldiers are used as a justification for allowing girl child to marry. Tell me what exceptional condition can exist in todays world to conscript a girl to marry? Then even at that child soldering is against international law and is condemned universally and no one is using God or culture as a justification for child soldering


Your other argument about girl child marriage not being about sexual fantacies of old men is pure dishonesty. Most of child marriages are between old men and little girls. it id very rare to see a 16 or even 18 year old boy thinking of marriage. An average 18yr old boy cannot take on the responsibility of catering for a family, unless the marriage is at the prompting of the famililies and are taken care of by the families. I am sure Yarima was not thinking of marriage between two young couples when he was arguing his position on the floor of the senate.


Can you please answer these questions;

Can a 9 yr old make a conscious decision to fall in love with a 50 year old man?

Is it not an exploitation for a parent to collect bride price for their 12 yr old daughter without her ability to understand the implications of marriage?

If a 12yr old is deemed an adult to answer Mrs., should she not be deemed an adult to vote and be voted for, drive, etc.? Or is she deemed an adult for purpose of sex and producing babies only.


What about the boys, if a married 12 yr old can be deemed an adult, why not allow 12yrs old boys too to marry and be deemed adult? why the discrimination? are married girls more intellectually matured than married boys of the same age. Does the act of marriage and se.x confer a sort of supernatual maturity on girls transforming them into instant adults?


How does a relationship even develop between a 50 yr old man and a 12 yr old girl? Will the man woo the girl and toast her, for the girl to fall in love with him or he just goes to the parents and ask "How Much?"

stillwater: But we are talking about Nigeria here not what obtains in the UK. In Nigeria enlisting in the army starts at 18 years. A country has its right to decide what it wants or not, whether it be fashioned like identical twins with another country. Case in point, the homosexuality saga in the senate. Even identical twins do have differences in tastes.
If Nigeria is really fashioned like the US and UK, we would be like them economically and otherwise. So following your argument, you're saying since these countries enlist their kids at 13, 16 in the army, why can't they marry? Good question. It paves way for my own question...since Nigeria enlists you in the army at 18, why can't a girl be married off at 18?

No, that's not what im saying.

1. Our constitution is a decoration, we dont practice its principles. Insted of envisioning a roadmap for our constitution we react to it.

2. The option must be left in the books for the section of society that wants to exercise it as choice, afterall its not illegitimate.

3. Nigeria has never been in foreign war and therefore has not had a need to drop below 18 for conscription. In all of the internal conflicts and violent confrontations weve had, boys below 18 carried and fired weapons, they killed and were killed.

4. We must not remove provisions of the constitution that attaches to customary and native practices.

5. We want to outlaw legitimate practice and yet our constittion has failed to efectively regulate child rape. Everyday a child is raped, sometimes as young as 9yrs old, and in our South.

Here is what i said on the issue yesteray.

On the issue of under age marriage, a 16yr old girl is biologically prepared and matured by nature for matrimonial responsibilities.Our genuine attempts to match and equate women to men has equipped our society with political correctness that inadvertently work against women biological clock.

Increasingly we will erode the values of matrimonial harmony and the longer we encourage women to suppress their biological role the more likely it is we end up with far worse gender inequality and abuses than we are currently protesting.13 is too young and should not be married at all.15 to 19 is okay for marriage to someone in her age range.No woman below 25 should be married to any man 10yrs or older in age gap.We will do well with creating some brackets and waivers on this issue than causing a civil war over pouzzy

i doubt 99% of nigerians/nairalanders personally know anyone who married before the age of 18, barring their grandparents' generation.

these days its even rare to see anybody marrying before 21/22. The average age of marriage for nigerian females seems to be 24/25 and above.

Dudu_Negro: Tpia,

I doubt many of the respondents gave deep thought to the issue before they started responding. There is this assumption or perharps a stereotypes that anytime a underage girl is married the suitor is always an older man and that its a Northerner. There are legitimate marriages between 15, 16, 17yr old girls and boys their age bracket and this must not be outlawed.

Changing the provisions of the constitution might regrettably remove that option for young suitors.

The response from this Senator from Akure showed that he did not understand the constitution he voted in favor of and even after the outcry from oppoaition he still did not understand it when he gave the apology.
Shame on LP!

Chief Negro,

Would I be correct if I were to assert that you have no practical examples of legitimate marriages between 15, 16, 17yr old girls and boys their age bracket in Nigeria. And that any suggestion that such unions are commonplace in more advanced climes or even in Nigeria is essentially wrong.

I am hearing some of the hypothetical counter-arguments being advanced alright, it is just that I see little evidence of any grounding in reality. For instance, because your example of the 17 year old U.S soldier completely ignores the element of choice involved, it also negates the important concept of "free will" .

wirinet: Mr Dudu Negro, I have saddened when Nigerians always look for flimsy and untenable arguments to support their vices and vanities. What is bad is bad and what is acceptable is acceptable.


You are probably supporting child marriage probably because you have engaged in it or you see this debate as an anti-muslim debate. Meanwhile most muslims in Nigeria and the world over is against child marriage.


You tried bringing in an exceptional situation of war when child soldiers are used as a justification for allowing girl child to marry. Tell me what exceptional condition can exist in todays world to conscript a girl to marry? Then even at that child soldering is against international law and is condemned universally and no one is using God or culture as a justification for child soldering


Your other argument about girl child marriage not being about sexual fantacies of old men is pure dishonesty. Most of child marriages are between old men and little girls. it id very rare to see a 16 or even 18 year old boy thinking of marriage. An average 18yr old boy cannot take on the responsibility of catering for a family, unless the marriage is at the prompting of the famililies and are taken care of by the families. I am sure Yarima was not thinking of marriage between two young couples when he was arguing his position on the floor of the senate.


Can you please answer these questions;

Can a 9 yr old make a conscious decision to fall in love with a 50 year old man?

Is it not an exploitation for a parent to collect bride price for their 12 yr old daughter without her ability to understand the implications of marriage?

If a 12yr old is deemed an adult to answer Mrs., should she not be deemed an adult to vote and be voted for, drive, etc.? Or is she deemed an adult for purpose of sex and producing babies only.


What about the boys, if a married 12 yr old can be deemed an adult, why not allow 12yrs old boys too to marry and be deemed adult? why the discrimination? are married girls more intellectually matured than married boys of the same age. Does the act of marriage and se.x confer a sort of supernatual maturity on girls transforming them into instant adults?


How does a relationship even develop between a 50 yr old man and a 12 yr old girl? Will the man woo the girl and toast her, for the girl to fall in love with him or he just goes to the parents and ask "How Much?"

It is convenient for you to prejudge me that way because you are desperate to score a point. I want logical response with deep insight, not a debate to see who wins the argument.

Im not advocating that by all means a 16yr old must be married. Im saying the choice to do so, since it is morally and legitimately acceptable, must not be outlawed.

I want 16yr olds to get education and prosper but there are instances when a parent may need to invoke this option and get their girl into wedlock.

Im giving a social argument not a Islamic doctrine.

If im rich and i have a 16yr old who wants to marry i will allow it. That doesnt stop her education and i can support her and her husband wih no problem. If its outlawed then that choice is taken away.

tpia@:
i doubt 99% of nigerians/nairalanders personally know anyone who married before the age of 18, barring their grandparents' generation.

these days its even rare to see anybody marrying before 21/22. The average age of marriage for nigerian females seems to be 24/25 and above.

The point of democracy is that everybody has to be represented. Particularly morally justified issues must have representation.

None of what you listed earlier, education, financial startup, negates the morality of marriage of a 16yr old. None whatsoever!

it does, if a 16 year old remains a minor.

waiting two years for marriage, is not such a long time.

there is no justifiable reason, in today's world, why a girl must marry at age 16.

even those who are ten years older, are still not married yet, what's the rush?

just because the west has tv programs showcasing teenage mothers, doesnt mean nigeria must follow suit.

tpia@:
it does, if a 16 year old remains a minor.

waiting two years for marriage, is not such a long time.

there is no justifiable reason, in today's world, why a girl must marry at age 16.

even those who are ten years older, are still not married yet, what's the rush?

just because the west has tv programs showcasing teenage mothers, doesnt mean nigeria must follow suit.

We must go by the biological clock, not the statistics.

The minor is in no way saying she is not biologically able to marry. The minor is only a rference to the need for a major or parental consent.

We must not outlaw the biological readiness of a 16yr old who desires to go into union with her lover.

Dudu_Negro:

It is convenient for you to prejudge me that way because you are desperate to score a point. I want logical response with deep insight, not a debate to see who wins the argument.

Im not advocating that by all means a 16yr old must be married. Im saying the choice to do so, since it is morally and legitimately acceptable, must not be outlawed.

I want 16yr olds to get education and prosper but there are instances when a parent may need to invoke this option and get their girl into wedlock.

Im giving a social argument not a Islamic doctrine.

If im rich and i have a 16yr old who wants to marry i will allow it. That doesnt stop her education and i can support her and her husband wih no problem. If its outlawed then that choice is taken away.

This debate is not about winning arguments, it is about presenting our views and opinions on the subject matter and both sides are very emotional on the issue.


I want you to understand where we are coming from.

Men are perverse as far as se.x is concerned, we have a long history of sexual exploitation of women. The only protection omen has against sex.ual exploitation by men is the law. That is why when there is a breakdown of law in any society - as in war, the first group that suffers are women, especially the younger ones. They are immidiately turned to se.x slaves. One of those pervertions and fantasies men have is to be the first to break the virginity of women. This is responsible for men looking for younger and younger girls and now they are going after pre-teens to satisfy their fantasies. This is the reason you will find someone like Senator Yarima marry a 15 yr old and in a few years discard that 15yr old with kids and marry another 14yr old. This scenario plays all over societies where teen and pre-teenage marriage is practiced, with all its attendant social problems. So people are angry because this is view as a sort of sexual exploitation and not a love based marriage.

We view this law as just a legitimization of paedophilia.


Now if two teens of similar age want to marry due to love or other circumstances, people will not be so revulsed, but from reality, most of the child bride are given to much older men by their parents for financial or other gains.


I am an advocate of early marriage by girls, because their biological clock ticks faster than that of men, but she should at least add value to herself( no matter how small) before before settling down to family life. I have said earlier that the age of 16 can be considered for marriage in special circumstances and the age difference between the couple must not be too wide. But you cannot legislate the age of the man a full adult woman can marry, that would be against her fundermental human rights. A girl of 19 can marry a man of 80 yrs and vice-versa, with or without the consent of their parents and there is nothing anybody can do about it. (eg. Ojuwku and Bianca).

People like yarima and the other 36 senators we not thinking of the welfare of young girls when voing on this issue but of their own lubido, because Sani Yarima had 8yrs to affect the life of the girl child as governor and he did nothing.

wirinet:


This debate is not about winning arguments, it is about presenting our views and opinions on the subject matter and both sides are very emotional on the issue.


I want you to understand where we are coming from.

Men are perverse as far as se.x is concerned, we have a long history of sexual exploitation of women. The only protection omen has against sex.ual exploitation by men is the law. That is why when there is a breakdown of law in any society - as in war, the first group that suffers are women, especially the younger ones. They are immidiately turned to se.x slaves. One of those pervertions and fantasies men have is to be the first to break the virginity of women. This is responsible for men looking for younger and younger girls and now they are going after pre-teens to satisfy their fantasies. This is the reason you will find someone like Senator Yarima marry a 15 yr old and in a few years discard that 15yr old with kids and marry another 14yr old. This scenario plays all over societies where teen and pre-teenage marriage is practiced, with all its attendant social problems. So people are angry because this is view as a sort of sexual exploitation and not a love based marriage.

We view this law as just a legitimization of paedophilia.


Now if two teens of similar age want to marry due to love or other circumstances, people will not be so revulsed, but from reality, most of the child bride are given to much older men by their parents for financial or other gains.


I am an advocate of early marriage by girls, because their biological clock ticks faster than that of men, but she should at least add value to herself( no matter how small) before before settling down to family life. I have said earlier that the age of 16 can be considered for marriage in special circumstances and the age difference between the couple must not be too wide. But you cannot legislate the age of the man a full adult woman can marry, that would be against her fundermental human rights. A girl of 19 can marry a man of 80 yrs and vice-versa, with or without the consent of their parents and there is nothing anybody can do about it. (eg. Ojuwku and Bianca).

People like yarima and the other 36 senators we not thinking of the welfare of young girls when voing on this issue but of their own lubido, because Sani Yarima had 8yrs to affect the life of the girl child as governor and he did nothing.

There is nothing in what you say that i dispute. My issue is with taking away the option for the small population that ought to enjoy this liberty. We must leave the law alone but create a clause that penalize the perversion.

Read this from my post yesterday.

13 is too young and should not be married at all.15 to 19 is okay for marriage to someone in her age range.No woman below 25 should be married to any man 10yrs or older in age gap.We will do well with creating some brackets and waivers on this issue.

Let us regulate perversion, leave the girls and their biological clock to exercise freedomg of choice.

Dudu_Negro:

We must go by the biological clock, not the statistics.

The minor is in no way saying she is not biologically able to marry. The minor is only a rference to the need for a major or parental consent.

We must not outlaw the biological readiness of a 16yr old who desires to go into union with her lover.

a 16 year old is not expected to make taking lovers his or her priority- would you encourage your 16 year old to take lovers?

and if biological clock is what you go by, that means you're saying even a 12 year old should father children?

yes it can happen but that doesnt make it ok.