LTGEN:

I was the one who created the Firestorm about the Hornet that is so beloved by our South African brethren.
Let me add my two cents and create Firestorm#2
It appears the lessons from Bangui has not been learned.This vehicle will not fare well in an urban warfare setting of Mosul and despite the pleas of my South African brethren it will suffer against a fast moving urban terrorists gang swarming on two more fronts simultaneously.

LTGEN:

I was the one who created the Firestorm about the Hornet that is so beloved by our South African brethren.
Let me add my two cents and create Firestorm#2
It appears the lessons from Bangui has not been learned.This vehicle will not fare well in an urban warfare setting of Mosul and despite the pleas of my South African brethren it will suffer against a fast moving urban terrorists gang swarming on two more fronts simultaneously.

LTGEN:

I was the one who created the Firestorm about the Hornet that is so beloved by our South African brethren.
Let me add my two cents and create Firestorm#2
It appears the lessons from Bangui has not been learned.This vehicle will not fare well in an urban warfare setting of Mosul and despite the pleas of my South African brethren it will suffer against a fast moving urban terrorists gang swarming on two more fronts simultaneously.

ActivateKruger:


I think we said it a million times that these are not direct fire vehicles, they're "behind enemy lines" vehicles. You dash in and out... For direct fire, APCs, IFVs and tanks are used we have hundreds of them.

jln115:

His just trolling, in no way, shape or form those he have any idea what hes talking about.....hence why i said dont feed the troll.

LTGEN:

When the Baga Base fell in Nigeria the pictures were shown,the base commander was arrested, imprisoned and eventually demoted and painful lessons were learnt.
Most of the pictures Frumentius has shown of the Hornet in simulation combat have not shown the Hornet in a Rear action view they have been portrayed as Troop transport carrier to the front even with Mortar Companies in tow
The Base at Bosso Niger yielded up twin shilka and a couple of Quad Zus for the BH, I would hate to imagine what that would do to your beloved Hornets from and a couple of Dhsk .I would hate to imagine what that would do to a hornet as it is in the "rear " 1.5 to 2 kilometers away.
While it is in the rear transporting troops it will run over a Road side I.E.D. planted the night before , maybe just then you guys will have the same visceral hatred we Nigerians have for the thin- Skinned Hilux Vehicles we have.
I also have a right to criticize something that I see without being deemed a troll it is an opinion nothing more nothing less.
The Ghanaians also have a practically useless Light Utility Vehicle that offers scant protection does that make Nigerians trolls just because we criticize it.
If a vehicle is highlighted as one of your signature vehicles then it behooves South Africa to improve on it before tragic results commence.

LTGEN:

When the Baga Base fell in Nigeria the pictures were shown,the base commander was arrested, imprisoned and eventually demoted and painful lessons were learnt.
Most of the pictures Frumentius has shown of the Hornet in simulation combat have not shown the Hornet in a Rear action view they have been portrayed as Troop transport carrier to the front even with Mortar Companies in tow
The Base at Bosso Niger yielded up twin shilka and a couple of Quad Zus for the BH, I would hate to imagine what that would do to your beloved Hornets from and a couple of Dhsk .I would hate to imagine what that would do to a hornet as it is in the "rear " 1.5 to 2 kilometers away.
While it is in the rear transporting troops it will run over a Road side I.E.D. planted the night before , maybe just then you guys will have the same visceral hatred we Nigerians have for the thin- Skinned Hilux Vehicles we have.
I also have a right to criticize something that I see without being deemed a troll it is an opinion nothing more nothing less.
The Ghanaians also have a practically useless Light Utility Vehicle that offers scant protection does that make Nigerians trolls just because we criticize it.
If a vehicle is highlighted as one of your signature vehicles then it behooves South Africa to improve on it before tragic results commence.

jln115:
So special thanks must go to the Artillery guys! They decided 5 o'clock in the morning is the perfect time to let all hell break lose with constant barrage of 155mm and 127mm(rocket) fire......so from 5 to.....(well it hasn't stopped yet), my apartment is constantly shaking and it sounds like a war zone outside!

MikeCZA:
Oh the Nigerians have a huge massively funded lessons learned centre!

They have so far proved that indirect fire support is useless in raids.

SF should be 95% reccon and 5 raids. They are not SOF or what others might term as light infantry.

frumentius post=543
76801:


The joys of Potch !

ActivateKruger:


I think we said it a million times that these are not direct fire vehicles, they're "behind enemy lines" vehicles. You dash in and out... For direct fire, APCs, IFVs and tanks are used we have hundreds of them.

Henry240:


There is nothing like SOF and SF, they are all the same thing. Stop confusing yourself.

An SF unit can be deployed in direct and indirect action roles. As the mission demands they deploy.

Tons of examples abound, the Nigerian navy SBS conduct direct action, indirect action and Recon. Air Force Regiment the same thing, including Forward Air Control. AFSF also conduct the same types of raids.

In Syria we see Russian SSO conduct direct action and indirect action in that battle space, same thing for the French in Mali, Direct and Indirect. US navy seals in both Iraq and Syria. We've seen that in Manbij, Mosul etc etc. We've also seen the same thing play with the Turk's in Al-bab and elsewhere in Syria. In this battles we've seen Special Forces deploy vehicles from Pick-up trucks to Striker IFVs, and anything in-between, that's Tigr LAV, Jankel SPV, M-ATV and the likes. From the photos seen, only the British in Syria and the French in Mali have used SPVs.

The Russians in Syria deploy in Tigr and Pick-up trucks, the Americans deploy in Pick-up trucks, M-ATV and Striker IFVs.

So, LTGEN is also right, in those scenarios where it is mostly going to be direct action raids, SPVs arent the sort of vehicles to deploy.

In Nigeria, Special Forces deploy in MRAPs or Pick-up trucks. Special forces vehicles like the Honker are used only as base defence vehicles by NAF Regiment.

MikeCZA:
There is SF and SOF.

The usage of SF units in the middle east doesn't necessarily define how they should be deployed.

Your SF are still learning they will vehicles like the Hornet in the future.

Ops are intelligence driven if armour is required then SF people will bring armoured vehicles or whatever they need to get the job done.

South Africa is one of the first countries to deploy the so called "MRAPS" by Americans. If these vehicles were good for the SF's airborne, raiding, reccon etc needs don't you think SASFB would have picked 'MRAPS' for the roles the Hornet is utilised for?

Also remember your forces are fighting inside Nigeria within your boarders.

Henry240:


No, that's not a proper answer. As SF units also conduct direct fire mission. French SF were the first to enter every city/Town in Mali with insurgents. French SF backed up by air power. Also at-least 2 French SF died in Mali when their SPVs rolled over an IED. Two different incidences

your answer should be, in situations were they are caught in direct action or ambushes or FIBUA they can still defend themselves as they are armed with a 50.Cal and a 7.62mm machine gun. Infact vehicles like the Hornet RDRV have a frontal armour which is able to stop 7.62 fired from a distance of 30 meters. Also SF soldiers would dismount, providing support with small arms. The vehicles are also small enough to cut through city streets.

You use Jacob Zuma's visit to Burundi as an example of the multiple applications in both Direct and Indirect action role.


This is what your answer should look like, not the hubris above.

Trump Schedule || Tuesday, March 7, 2017
10:15 am || Speaks with President Uhuru Kenyatta of Kenya by telephone
10:45 am || Receives his daily intelligence briefing
12:30 pm || Has lunch with Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.
1:30 pm || Leads a policy discussion with Senator Tom Cotton and Senator David Perdue
3:30 pm || Leads a meeting with the U.S. House Deputy Whip team; East Room
4:30 pm || Meets with Richard Trumka, President of AFL–CIO
5:00 pm || Visits with the Boy Scouts of America

Henry240:


There is nothing like SOF and SF, they are all the same thing. Stop confusing yourself.

An SF unit can be deployed in direct and indirect action roles. As the mission demands they deploy.

Tons of examples abound, the Nigerian navy SBS conduct direct action, indirect action and Recon. Air Force Regiment the same thing, including Forward Air Control. AFSF also conduct the same types of raids.

In Syria we see Russian SSO conduct direct action and indirect action in that battle space, same thing for the French in Mali, Direct and Indirect. US navy seals in both Iraq and Syria. We've seen that in Manbij, Mosul etc etc. We've also seen the same thing play with the Turk's in Al-bab and elsewhere in Syria. In this battles we've seen Special Forces deploy vehicles from Pick-up trucks to Striker IFVs, and anything in-between, that's Tigr LAV, Jankel SPV, M-ATV and the likes. From the photos seen, only the British in Syria and the French in Mali have used SPVs.

The Russians in Syria deploy in Tigr and Pick-up trucks, the Americans deploy in Pick-up trucks, M-ATV and Striker IFVs.

So, LTGEN is also right, in those scenarios where it is mostly going to be direct action raids, SPVs arent the sort of vehicles to deploy.

In Nigeria, Special Forces deploy in MRAPs or Pick-up trucks. Special forces vehicles like the Honker are used only as base defence vehicles by NAF Regiment.

Patchesagain:


but Special Operations Forces are certainly not Special Forces.

MikeCZA:
There is SF and SOF.

The usage of SF units in the middle east doesn't necessarily define how they should be deployed.

Your SF are still learning they will vehicles like the Hornet in the future.

Ops are intelligence driven if armour is required then SF people will bring armoured vehicles or whatever they need to get the job done.

South Africa is one of the first countries to deploy the so called "MRAPS" by Americans. If these vehicles were good for the SF's airborne, raiding, reccon etc needs don't you think SASFB would have picked 'MRAPS' for the roles the Hornet is utilised for?

Also remember your forces are fighting inside Nigeria within your boarders.

Henry240:


Dude, there is nothing like SF and SOF, there is just SF. Special Forces.


The usage of SF units in the Middle-East is a clear indication that warfare is fluid and can change, so strategy and policy makers have to keep with this constant change of warfare.

SF units were initially created to deal with the Soviet threat or the possibility of Soviet Invasion of Western Europe. Since this never happened and the Soviet Union collapsed the application of SF units changed to deal with the threat posed by extremism and radicalism in the late 80's and early 90's.

Your claim that operations in the M.E do not represent the core of SF operations is absolute nonsense.

Nigerian units are relatively young, but in that short period they have engaged in countless operations not just in Nigeria but across Africa which has helped to define the doctrine they operate by. With each changing threat, doctrine would be improved upon as warfare isn't static.

The IPV launched by the Nigerian army is one of such steps geared towards enhancing operational capabilities.

Ops are Intelligence driven, this is why Recon is one of the roles of SF units, not the only role.

Like i said previously, mission type would determine mission equipment. Quick raids or Airborne raids would be carried out by so called SPVs, Direct Action raids which SF units also carry out would be prosecuted with equipment that sooth that role. Hence the use of a wide array of vehicles by SF units, not restricted to Recon alone.

ActivateKruger:



How many Hornets would you fit in a Hercules C130 vs the number of Mambas APCs? Now you understand why it's used to escort the President outside South Africa? I'm sure you're aware that they'd be there to ESCORT not to start a war and fight a foreign army?

As for the SF on direct fire.. South African SF are less used on those roles in comparison to the French SF (you made example of). If a town had to be assaulted, the SF would do recon while the Motorised and Machanised units assault it first. The SF would be sending in artillery, mortar and guided bombs positions.



We discussed this a million times before, what other countries would call SF would be regular infantry in the SANDF.

Henry240:

This is more of the fact that there is only SF. SF is SF, no difference.

Henry240:


Read my comment again. Different scenario, different equipment and different tactics. However my comment simply buttresses that when caught in a situation that requires unavoidable confrontation, they can still defend themselves.

Hence SF units conduct both direct and indirect operations. That's indisputable.

This is more of the fact that there is only SF. SF is SF, no difference.

jln115:

Just for the sake of interest....as what would you classify South African Navy MRS ,Pathfinders, tactical intelligence regiment?