Rossikk:

He is 10,000 times more knowledgeable and greater than YOU.

thoth: This is a lie, Mugabe never made such utterances and would never. if you have listened to Mugabe during a debate or giving a speech you will clearly know this is not the way he talks.
Even when the west and south African whites were trying to mess up the Zimbabwean Economy and frustrating his leadership he never made such utterances.

All he said is true though, Nelson Mandela is a huge coward whom could not return what belongs to his people back to his people, instead he sold out and was awarded a peace price.

He went to prison for terrorist activities as a Communist Aggressor not for fighting for the freedom of his people. Nelson Mandela and his group set people ablaze alive, lynched and arsoned public institutions.

I have a reason to believe that he already agreed to a deal before he was released in prison to allow the whites to dominate the economy of south Africa and retain all the resources and lands they forcefully and barbarically stole from the black indigenous south African.

I really have no respect for that man.

thoth: This is a lie, Mugabe never made such utterances and would never. if you have listened to Mugabe during a debate or giving a speech you will clearly know this is not the way he talks. Even when the west and south African whites were trying to mess up the Zimbabwean Economy and frustrating his leadership he never made such utterances.

All he said is true though, Nelson Mandela is a huge coward whom could not return what belongs to his people back to his people, instead he sold out and was awarded a peace price.

He went to prison for terrorist activities as a Communist Aggressor not for fighting for the freedom of his people. Nelson Mandela and his group set people ablaze alive, lynched and arsoned public institutions.

I have a reason to believe that he already agreed to a deal before he was released in prison to allow the whites to dominate the economy of south Africa and retain all the resources and lands they forcefully and barbarically stole from the black indigenous south African.

I really have no respect for that man.

Tumisang:

By white Saffers, I suppose you mean those who were farmers in Zim? The same people who were tortured, kicked out of their farms and arrested...in your mind these same okes had power to even try to mess with Zim's economy? How exactly? Pray tell...

You (assuming you're nigerian), Zimbos and majority of other Africans...have land, resources and the economy in your hands.

But still millions of you choose to infest a country that is being led by cowards. Why? Whats wrong with living in your "economically prosperous" countries?

Tumisang: @Thot

European colonists? *scratches head*...



[size=14pt]Just because we unfortunately belong to the same race group and our countries happen to be on the same continent; that doesn't make us brothers nor does it mean our country's histories are synonymous.
[/size]

thoth:
After reading that i wonder why i would waste more of my time.
Since you have admitted that you consider yourself UNFORTUNATE to be born black, and hates it that you are African. So i am really sorry that i called you a coconut because even though a coconut is BROWN on the outside and WHITE inside it does not consider itself unfortunate.

thoth: @Tumisang

Oh i forgot to tell you to please read how the diamond,lumber companies and others all owned by the European colonist devised economic sabotage against Zimbabwe for taking back what is theirs. since you don't actually read alternative news please tell me what they are trying to achieve when they freeze Zimbabwean assets, put trade embargo on them, devise sanctions which affect their banking operations, constrict their imports...and what did they do to deserve that ? please tell us you whitewashed coconut. what will such measure result in ?

Now people like you who never reasons will start blaming Mugabe as if he put it on his own people while the good man is only a Hero fighting for the Rights and Freedom of his people.

juju2008:
Knowledge without wisdom makes no sense. Now majority of his people wallow in poverty and wretchedness. So where is his greatness. He took land from the whites quite alright but the blacks who acquired the lands have not made any reasonable economic gains from it. Mandela is more tactful in that the process of land acquisition from white owners is gradual. African leaders like Mugabe and other dictators like him lack COMMON SENSE.

Rossikk:

You have no idea what you're talking about, and are an obvious victim of western media propaganda. There was a 'gradual' process of land redistribution in place from the 1976 Lancaster House Agreement until 1997 when Tony Blair cancelled Britain's funding of it. The war veterans immediately pressured Mugabe to seize the lands, and quite possibly in a bid to remain in power, he did. The rest is history. Mugabe is supported 1000% by the Zimbabwe military. That military is led by generals who fought the whites in the bush for decades, to secure independence. What exactly makes you think these guys are all dummies who will sit there and allow minority white ownership of the land and mineral resoures of the nation in perpetuity, twenty five years after they'd won the war?? How long to wait? 100 YEARS? 150 YEARS?

As for the land and the Zimbabweans' management of it, contrary to what you hear in the western media, the land reforms have been a SUCCESS. Most importantly, they now guarantee that the next generation of black Zimbabweans will not grow up serfs, peasants and tenants on their ancestral land, and will have the majority stake in their national assets.

That's the biggest gift Bob Mugabe gave to his nation.

And that is why he continues to WIN elections.

419forlife:

how dare this men how dare u rossikk.if u think this can take a few year for the economy to get back on black hands then dare u. How many years 100 200 300 if it can take more it just might. how dare u rossikk get some education. gradual process thats why nelsin mandella took the deal because of 'hard work nothing free' principle that can build black nation. u dont know it because u dont have education. blacks work hard even if u stole from us we hate it back NO we are go work and fly straight till we gain some trust then we can take economy back. until we can work hard and prove our self we don have one right a talk about land transfer. how dare u rossikk.

thoth:

i really don't understand what you mean by that.

Tumisang:

By white Saffers, I suppose you mean those who were farmers in Zim? The same people who were tortured, kicked out of their farms and arrested...in your mind these same okes had power to even try to mess with Zim's economy? How exactly? Pray tell...

You (assuming you're nigerian), Zimbos and majority of other Africans...have land, resources and the economy in your hands.

But still millions of you choose to infest a country that is being led by cowards. Why? Whats wrong with living in your "economically prosperous" countries?

Tumisang: @cap28

1. Because I don't see any of you as "my brothers" therefore I must be a self-hating black? Yeah, sure...

2. If you wanna know what 'am challenging go back to the initial post I was responding to.

3. But your brother said all Africans have access to the economy of their respective countries and that Mandela was the only cowardice leader to have failed to give his people what was rightfully theirs? Hence I asked why go to a country that is being led by cowards.

4. Must everything be discussed along racial lines? Don't you know that whites and blacks in Zim are Zimbabweans?

Both Zim and foreign (Saffers) farmers were doing an excellent job that didn't not only benefit Zimbos but the world at large. Hence Zim was greatly known as the bread basket of Africa. Which Zimbos were living as peasants? Clearly you know nothing about the greatness of that nation before the land-grabs. In your mind black Zimbos were slaves to their white masters and that all farmers in both Zim and SA are white.

5. Mugabe has admitted that they way he went about fighting a system (Lancaster House Agreement) he helped create was wrong.

6. People like you are gonna blame the west for every wrong thing in this continent till kingdom come...while conveniently forgeting that foreign companies pay levies/taxes to govts. Whose fault is it that you're not benefiting from the monies - theirs or that of your leaders?

419forlife:

meaning we have appreciate nelson mandealla and realize what he did was not for popular but was best for a nation. the deal was at 1994 whites would take good care infrastructure such things like raw material that way nelson can finally leave jail to become a president. is best we research the deal. 1994 was to soon to have every bit back because skills and whites know every information to run machines such things.u see where i going with this. gradual process. it may take 100 200 500 year the life time of us can not see it but depend how bad we take actions that maybe 200 300 900 year from now our descendant can reap the work.

thoth:

Oh now i get what you meant. there are large parts of the negotiation between the whites and Nelson Mandela even before he was released from prison that the public don't know about. Though i agree that it makes strategic sense at that period to assume the stance you stated, i sincerely believe that since they have enough knowledge of how these people operate it will be clear to them that after 800 years they will never attain true independence, since all means of production rests with the foreigners with tremendous support from their brothers out of the continent it is very unlikely that such opportunities will even be passed to the blacks even at 40% rate in the nest 300 years.
what might happen is to create an elite black class that will be kept financially afloat and will serve two purposes, first they will be use to control the majority of the poor blacks since they having money will be naturally taken by the poor majority as their leader and voice, secondly they will serve as a reference that resources is actually shared even though such is only a farce, but anytime you complain that the blacks got nothing, the white will mention those puppets as evidence and then classify other poor blacks as lazy and unambitious though in reality the poor were deliberately and systematically made so.
The situation is made worse when those puppets being internationally accepted as the voice of the indigenous blacks gives credence to what the white oppressors say.

What i expected Mandela to do was the same thing that Mugabe did, once he had the Opportunity he would have abandoned all agreements and go full force at them, taking back what belongs to South Africans and even taking the apartheid whites to courts, with the sort of support that the blacks had from the rest of African and the World at that particular time such feat is feasible and achievable though not necessary in its entirety but some developments will be made and a norm established.
Believe if those were whites they will do worse than Mugabe, they will make sure they get every bit of their stuffs back and even more, in fact you will pay them reparations for eternity. Haiti is still paying reparations for DEFEATING FRANCE IN THEIR WAR FOR INDEPENDENCE.
The black man has been so brainwashed that he sincerely believes in the limits that has been put forward for him by his enemies.
Thanks Cap28 though.

thoth:

Oh now i get what you meant. there are large parts of the negotiation between the whites and Nelson Mandela even before he was released from prison that the public don't know about. Though i agree that it makes strategic sense at that period to assume the stance you stated, i sincerely believe that since they have enough knowledge of how these people operate it will be clear to them that after 800 years they will never attain true independence, since all means of production rests with the foreigners with tremendous support from their brothers out of the continent it is very unlikely that such opportunities will even be passed to the blacks even at 40% rate in the nest 300 years.
what might happen is to create an elite black class that will be kept financially afloat and will serve two purposes, first they will be use to control the majority of the poor blacks since they having money will be naturally taken by the poor majority as their leader and voice, secondly they will serve as a reference that resources is actually shared even though such is only a farce, but anytime you complain that the blacks got nothing, the white will mention those puppets as evidence and then classify other poor blacks as lazy and unambitious though in reality the poor were deliberately and systematically made so.
The situation is made worse when those puppets being internationally accepted as the voice of the indigenous blacks gives credence to what the white oppressors say.

What i expected Mandela to do was the same thing that Mugabe did, once he had the Opportunity he would have abandoned all agreements and go full force at them, taking back what belongs to South Africans and even taking the apartheid whites to courts, with the sort of support that the blacks had from the rest of African and the World at that particular time such feat is feasible and achievable though not necessary in its entirety but some developments will be made and a norm established.
[size=14pt]Believe if those were whites they will do worse than Mugabe, they will make sure they get every bit of their stuffs back and even more, in fact you will pay them reparations for eternity. Haiti is still paying reparations for DEFEATING FRANCE IN THEIR WAR FOR INDEPENDENCE. [/size]
The black man has been so brainwashed that he sincerely believes in the limits that has been put forward for him by his enemies.
Thanks Cap28 though.

zetdee: YAWN, bunch of opinionated loudmouths who've probably never set foot in Southern Africa.

419forlife:

now we are get places you see i mean it could take 100 200 500 year for at least a 10% transfer. that is exact what i am talk about thuth. now think about 100% transfer. 500 600 2000 year it might just take. as for a highlighted we don do a such things and to bad you mention them as we first a God fear people. if dey want a land take and get back what belong to a white then may God help the whites. we don do such a thing yes we will take back what belong us but we gon do all it honest way. honest way is a best policy. we shall over come yes we can dream to.

cap28:

People like you like to allign yourself with anyone except your own people, but one thing you must bear in mind is that the greatness of a people is measured in collective terms not on an individual basis, africans like you who think your individual accomplishments are enough to earn the respect of other races are deluding themselves.

I am not a great fan of Mandela - i admire the fact that he sacrificed 27 years of his life for his people, but he betrayed his people by cutting a deal with the white power structure - his betrayal of the black south africans enalbed the whites to retain control over all of south africa's land and other valuable natural resources, this is the reason why the whites love him, so it is understandable if many africans have lost respect for him.

If white and black zimbabweans are both zimbabweans why is europe and america hell bent on destroying any attempt by Mugabe to empower the black zimbabweans , why did america and europe impose economic sanctions on the country which caused hyper inflation and a near collapse of the economy? Have you heard of ZIDERA? google it and find out how the EU and america planned to sink Zimbabwe's economy using some of the most draconian economic sanctions ever imposed on a sovereign nation.

The lancaster agreement was a pile of crap - How can you enter into an agreement to reimburse a thief after he has stolen your land? Besides the then british prime minister (Thatcher) had no intention of honouring anything agreed under it and later reneged on all of the promise made under that agreement.

How did Mugabe help to create the aparthied system in the then Rhodesia under Ian Smith - i know many zimbabweans who have confirmed to me that they lived as second class citizens in their own country during white minority rule

I dont know if you know this but the reason multinational corporations like to do business in africa is because they pay little or no corporation tax - did you know that last year some of the richest corporations in the world got away with paying practically no tax - eg amazon, apple, microsoft, also a british billionaire by the name of phillip green (owner of british home stores and top shop) avoided paying over £1billion in tax last year alone. If these companies can do this in the western world imagine what they must be getting away with in countries like nigeria where there are no effective regulations.