Alwaystrue:

You really are one funny guy.

The only person getting worked up over tithe and going on the offensive
is you. You said I was getting worked up on the other thread? No one
mentioned tithe on the other thread, yet you were asking me why I was
offended on why you do not tithe. You are trying too hard. Seems you
were thinking aloud and like looking for offense where there is none.
Lol.

I can see you like argument and can't seem to help seeing my posts. It
is fine. Whatever you say does not move me and I have made that clear
long before now.
If you do not see me fit to discuss bible matters with, then leave my
post when you see it. Try not to discuss with me by force. This your
grouse is so petty and it shows in your posts. If the best way to deal
with people is to insult them and have no apologies then you have God to
answer to. I am not bothered about insults, I just gave advice to you
as it is not becoming of those who profess to love.

I said whatever you fit is ok for you, go ahead, why should I prove you
wrong. You say one thing and do another. Now that you have said your
bit, please try to be happy. I have peace of mind with what I post.
Thanks for the advice.

You are welcome... any day.

@ Alwaystrue,

I lost a post I was going to reply you. E pain me small o. let me see if I can compose another one.

^^^^^^^ ,
@Goshen, lol. Na you sabi o.

shdemidemi:

Mr bidam,

Was Paul telling Timothy about what jesus said in his earthly ministry or about what Christ is saying after resurrection?

Paul was not with Jesus during his earthly ministry and there was no Mathew mark Luke and John (the four accounts of Jesus' earthly ministry) at the time. Paul also made it clear he did not learn from anyone or through the disciples that were present with Jesus. Remember!

Could you tell us what Christ said after his resurrection? Because i was not there or where you there with Paul?Even Paul was perfectly aware of the earthly ministry of Jesus,stop deceiving folks here.Look at what Paul told King Agrippa. Act 26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner

Alwaystrue: ^^^^^^^ ,
@Goshen, lol. Na you sabi o.

Seriously, I mean it. That post I lost typing from my phone was powerful. Seriously. Okay, I will compose again.

First, you need flush the institutionalized church teachings out of your word knowledge and carefully scrutinize most of their teachings that was taught. Many of them including this tithe thing are genuine error, not intentional.

That what what I first said in the lost post. I will continue to point #2

Goshen360:

Seriously, I mean it. That post I lost typing from my phone was powerful. Seriously. Okay, I will compose again.

First, you need flush the institutionalized church teachings out of your word knowledge and carefully scrutinize most of their teachings that was taught. Many of them including this tithe thing are genuine error, not intentional.

That what what I first said in the lost post. I will continue to point #2

Alwaystrue:
And the problem with you is that even when people show you from the word, you say it is institutionalised church.
No scripture shows tithe as an error except Goshen's teachings and I do not follow your teaching...see.
So teach the message to your ardent followers who are willing to defend you irrespective of what you say. Happy now? Thank you.

Bidam: Could you tell us what Christ said after his resurrection? Because i was not there or where you there with Paul?Even Paul was perfectly aware of the earthly ministry of Jesus,stop deceiving folks here.Look at what Paul told King Agrippa. [i]Act 26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; [b]for this thing was not done in a corner[/[/b]i]

I asked an innocent question, stop being paranoid. How does Acts 26:26 give you the slightest inclination that Paul was telling Timothy about Jesus' earthly ministry?

Remember, he was busy in his Judaism methodology at the time.

12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2, @ Alwaystrue,

Christ was 'Grace' in the midst of or born under the law. The people's mindset is Moses and the law. He came to tell them, "I'm he that the law pointed to". Hence, the need for change and appoint the 12 that will carry on what was establish for the change that is to come after he would have declared, "it is finished".

I will continue to point #3...make I no loose the point again.

Alwaystrue:
And the problem with you is that even when people show you from the word, you say it is institutionalised church.
No scripture shows tithe as an error except Goshen's teachings and I do not follow your teaching...see.
So teach the message to your ardent followers who are willing to defend you irrespective of what you say. Happy now? Thank you.

You are proving a closed mind here. It's not my teachings but let's scrutinize everything we are taught. Abi you carry knowledge come from heaven ni? No be institutionalized church first teach all of us tithe? So what is it I'm saying you don't understand.

I challenge you to prove tithe as taught in the NT after the resurrection of Christ by the Apostles, you quoting Paul and I further challenge if you inferring tithe into Paul's word as it wasn't mentioned, then you need prove or show WHERE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ORDAINED THAT THOSE WHO PREACH THE GOSPEL SHOULD RECEIVE TITHE.

That's all you need to do.

Goshen360:

You are proving a closed mind here. It's not my teachings but let's scrutinize everything we are taught. Abi you carry knowledge come from heaven ni? No be institutionalized church first teach all of us tithe? So what is it I'm saying you don't understand.

I challenge you to prove tithe as taught in the NT after the resurrection of Christ by the Apostles, you quoting Paul and I further challenge if you inferring tithe into Paul's word as it wasn't mentioned, then you need prove or show WHERE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ORDAINED THAT THOSE WHO PREACH THE GOSPEL SHOULD RECEIVE TITHE.

That's all you need to do.

We have discussed tithe before, have we not? I do not need to challenge you as I have already said what needs to be said about tithe and you hold opposing view. Fine.
You claim the words Jesus said were not for you, I cannot argue with you on that. Continue reading your bible from Acts while I allow the holy spirit to guide me in all truth (all scripture). Everyone is happy.

So keep your challenges as even the one you challenged on another thread and was answered, we did not see you respond to it (correct me if I am wrong though).

Alwaystrue:
We have discussed tithe before, have we not? I do not need to challenge you as I have already said what needs to be said about tithe and you hold opposing view. Fine.
You claim the words Jesus said were not for you, I cannot argue with you on that. Continue reading your bible from Acts while I allow the holy spirit to guide me in all truth (all scripture). Everyone is happy.

So keep your challenges as even the one you challenged on another thread and was answered, we did not see you respond to it (correct me if I am wrong though).

Lolz.

You have one attitude and it will take you nowhere. You either MISunderstand or just jump to conclusion on issues instead of asking questions. On the thread you referring to, I will respond when I have the time. No rushing!

Again, here you show the same attitude - misunderstanding and jumping to conclusion. I have said it many times here that what Christ established as 'Grace' under the law was what was carried on by the Apostles into the NT after the resurrection.

And here, you jump to conclusion that I only read from Acts. How do I understand the new if I don't read the old?

We have discussed tithe but in all discussions, you are yet to show tithe was inferred by Paul you quote for those who preach the gospel. At least Paul was saying what the Lord ORDAINED OR ESTABLISHED. So, I say, there must be a place in or from scriptures where the Lord ORDAINED what Paul was saying. You have to show it to us.

Now, if you saying Matthew 23:23 or Luke you quoted is where the Lord ORDAINED tithe for those who preach the gospel, then are you saying PHARISEES\SCRIBES ARE THOSE WHO PREACH THE GOSPEL THAT THE LORD ORDAINED TITHE FOR or you saying THOSE WHO PREACH THE GOSPEL ARE SCRIBES\PHARISEES? You see why I insult the blood and finished works of Christ?

shdemidemi:

I asked an innocent question, stop being paranoid. How does Acts 26:26 give you the slightest inclination that Paul was telling Timothy about Jesus' earthly ministry?

Funny you always quote this phrase to anyone who challenges your erroneous view.Na today.SMH! Are you saying Paul was not aware of the apostles teachings? Why was he persecuting the church? Please tell us.

Remember, he was busy in his Judaism methodology at the time

show me from scripture where he was busy with judaism.

12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Always the cop out scripture when ever you guys are challenged. Ok can you outline the so called revelations Paul got that was in contrast from the law and the prophets?

^ You know I nefa get Apostolic time for you my brother.

Pastor Sam Adeyemi, another cleric and founder of the Daystar Christian center, a flourishing Pentecostal congregation which repeatedly preaches financial prosperity, is also a jet owner.

That is why he needs the tithing.

Like Daddy go who want to build a new center, why he want this, this money could help more people when he help them with jobs, give it to the poor, to the children who have no parents.

Why all Nigerian Pastors so in need for tithing

Tweet from @kenraggiocom
@kenraggiocom: It is heresy to teach the world's "success" principles to the Church. Jesus' teachings radically opposed materialism and wealth-building.

Tweet from @kenraggiocom
@kenraggiocom: The pursuit of wealth and the pursuit of God are two avenues which go in completely opposite directions.

^^^
Very interesting tweets I thought I should share. For those of you on twitter I recommend you follow that handle.

This video destroys the myth and outright deception of the modern day Tithe.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuSdWassvV0

Pastor Kun: Tweet from @kenraggiocom
@kenraggiocom: It is heresy to teach the world's "success" principles to the Church. Jesus' teachings radically opposed materialism and wealth-building.

Tweet from @kenraggiocom
@kenraggiocom: The pursuit of wealth and the pursuit of God are two avenues which go in completely opposite directions.

^^^
Very interesting tweets I thought I should share. For those of you on twitter I recommend you follow that handle.

Will they listen ? I think not !

@Bidam

Do you believe Paul was an inspired author of scriptures?

Do U agree he wrote revelations and mysteries not revealed to other ages?

Have U heard of the concept of dispensations?

Back to the matter of thieves and robbers in God's house. Who did Jesus actually refer to as a thief and a robber?

Enter Jesus into the temple. Lo and behold the place is filled with men selling sheep and doves. Jesus makes a wip and drives them out saying: ' Do not turn my father's house into a den of thieves'.

So there we have it: modern day thieves and robbers are not those who refuse to tithe under an obsolete levithical system seeing there are no Levites and Priest to pay tithes too; rather modern day thieves and robbers, who have turned God's temple into their den, are those who feast on gullible worshippers' tithes and offering in the name of being ordained pastors.

Thus the veritable theses from Femi Aribisala is very apt: Any Pastor that Collect Tithes and Offering Today is a Thief and a Robber.

DrummaBoy: @Bidam

Do you believe Paul was an inspired author of scriptures?

Yes,the same way John, Peter and James were inspired.Abi na different Holy Spirit dem get

Do U agree he wrote revelations and mysteries not revealed to other ages?

This is where you lose me,just because you see mystery in Paul's writing doesn't mean others like John, Isaiah,Jeremiah,Daniel did not also write mysteries in their books.These things you call mysteries has been revealed to us by the help of the Holy Spirit.More so Paul quoted copiously from the Law and prophets to explain your so called mysteries and revelations.

Have U heard of the concept of dispensations?

Did the prophets not prophesy about dispensations in the OT?

Bidam: Yes,the same way John, Peter and James were inspired.Abi na different Holy Spirit dem get
This is where you lose me,just because you see mystery in Paul's writing doesn't mean others like John, Isaiah,Jeremiah,Daniel did not also write mysteries in their books.These things you call mysteries has been revealed to us by the help of the Holy Spirit.More so Paul quoted copiously from the Law and prophets to explain your so called mysteries and revelations.
Did the prophets not prophesy about dispensations in the OT?

SMH

Bidam: . Funny you always quote this phrase to anyone who challenges your erroneous view.Na today.SMH! Are you saying Paul was not aware of the apostles teachings? Why was he persecuting the church? Please tell us.?

Apostle Paul did not mince words when he said

6 But from those who seemed to be something (Peter, James, John)—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.

Bidam: .
show me from scripture where he was busy with judaism.

What did you assume he was doing, Following Christ?

Go read your Act of apostles and 1 Timothy jo

Bidam: .
Always the cop out scripture when ever you guys are challenged. Ok can you outline the so called revelations Paul got that was in contrast from the law and the prophets?

Deut 29

29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us(israel) and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

The secrets were hid in God and revealed through the apostle to all men


24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me (not us) for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which[d] is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.

What is the secret?

The secret is how God will draw all men to himself through the gospel of Christ. 1cor15:1-4

Bidam: Yes,the same way John, Peter and James were inspired.Abi na different Holy Spirit dem get
This is where you lose me,just because you see mystery in Paul's writing doesn't mean others like John, Isaiah,Jeremiah,Daniel did not also write mysteries in their books.These things you call mysteries has been revealed to us by the help of the Holy Spirit.More so Paul quoted copiously from the Law and prophets to explain your so called mysteries and revelations.
Did the prophets not prophesy about dispensations in the OT?

And is it not obvious from this response of yours that you have a lot to learn? But you make so much noise on the forum you cannot even hear yourself talkless of hearing what others are saying.

Goshen is shaking his head for you. I think one should weep for you; realizing that you are one person on this forum that I know ministers to people. So if you know little, the people you minister to will know nothing.

Goshen, this one pass shaking of head for this chap O... the guy needs help,

Let me try again, Bidam:

Bidam:

Yes,the same way John, Peter and James were inspired. Abi na different Holy Spirit dem get

The question was: Do you believe Paul was an inspired author of scriptures? The normal answer should have been Yes/No. Assuming from your response above it was Yes. Then a quote like this should have been given to back it up:

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Assuming that is your response. I would have been able to show you that it is not a matter of who is speaking: be it John, Peter or James, as you listed above. The point is that the speaker is inspired and his words are found in scriptures and should be taken as the eternal counsel of God to us. Now if it seem to conflict with other parts of scriptures, it behoves you as a bible student to find out why.

Bidam:

This is where you lose me,just because you see mystery in Paul's writing doesn't mean others like John, Isaiah,Jeremiah,Daniel did not also write mysteries in their books.These things you call mysteries has been revealed to us by the help of the Holy Spirit.More so Paul quoted copiously from the Law and prophets to explain your so called mysteries and revelations.

The mystery I am talking about is this one:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

These mystery are truths not revealed in Torah but revealed to the Apostles, like Paul, and that said Gentiles were to be called into God's kingdom via the cross of Christ. Glimpse of it were revealed in the OT no doubt, but the dept of it was revealed through Paul and other in the NT.

Bidam:

Did the prophets not prophesy about dispensations in the OT?

This is what wikipedia say of Dispensation (Protestant)

The concept of a dispensation – the arrangement of divisions in Biblical history – dates back to Irenaeus in the second century. Other Christian writers and leaders since then, such as Augustine of Hippo and Joachim of Fiore (1135–1202), have also offered their own dispensation arrangements of history.[1] Many Protestant, Baptist and Calvinist writers, including Herman Witsius, Francis Turretin, and Isaac Watts (1674–1748) also preached and taught dispensation schemes and divisions. Even the Westminster Confession of Faith noted "various dispensations" in 1646.

Within Dispensationalism, dispensations are a series of chronologically successive dispensations of Biblical history. The number of dispensations held are typically three, four, seven or eight. The three and four dispensation schemes are often referred to as minimalist, as they recognize the commonly held major breaks within Biblical history. The seven and eight dispensation schemes are often closely associated with the announcement or inauguration of certain Biblical covenants. The variance in number relates to the extent of detail being emphasized by the author or speaker. Below is a table comparing some of the various dispensational schemes:

These different dispensations are not separate ways of salvation. During each of them man is reconciled to God in only one way, (i.e. by God's grace through the work of Christ that was accomplished on the cross and vindicated in His resurrection). Before the cross, man was saved on the basis of Christ's atoning sacrifice to come, through believing the revelation thus far given. Since the cross, man has been saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, in whom revelation and redemption have been consummated. On man's part, the continuing requirement is obedience to the revelation of God. This obedience is referred to a stewardship of faith.

Although the divine revelation unfolds progressively, the deposit of truth in earlier time-periods is not discarded, rather it is cumulative. Thus conscience (moral responsibility) is an abiding truth in human life (Ro. 2:15; 9:1; 2 Co. 1:12; 4:2), although it does not continue as a dispensation. Similarly, the saved of this present dispensation are "not under law" as a specific test of obedience to divine revelation (Gal. 5:18; cp. Gal 2:16; 3:11), yet the law remains an integral part of Dispensational teaching. The Law clarifies that, although Christ fulfilled the law for us, by it we have had the knowledge of sin(Rom 7:7), and it is an integral part of the Holy Scriptures, which, to the redeemed, are profitable for "training in righteousness" (2 Ti. 3:16–17; cp. Ro. 15:4). The purpose of each dispensation, then, is to place man under a specific rule of conduct, but such stewardship is not a condition of salvation. In every past dispensation unregenerate man has failed, much like he is failing in the present dispensation, and will fail in the future until Eternity arrives. Salvation has been and will continue to be available to everyone by God's grace through faith. (The New Scofield Study Bible, 1984, pg. 3–4).

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensation_(period)

You will do well to find other in depth study done on Dispensations because that is the only way you can understand the changes God permits in time without changing himself. The reason why the law belongs to the time of Moses; the reason why the time of Jesus was an overlap of law and grace and the reason why Paul (and other apostles, of course) had a peculiar message for the church.

Until you understand dispensations, you would never be on the same page in our discourses. And this applies not just to you but to Alwaystrue also and others. The like of J'85 and MostHigh are irredeamable Judaist and there is little hope for them; but you guyz can still grasp these things if you would let go of your high horse and just listen

Nairaland Religious section.

# Place where students know more than their teachers.

#place where heresy thrives.

# place where self ordained New Testament teachers exist, and try to enforce their pervasive teaching on Nigerians and the world.

People like, fro...,360,Drum... Etc.
Beware..!!!

Heb 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

oiseworld: Nairaland Religious section.

# Place where students know more than their teachers.

#place where heresy thrives.

# place where self ordained New Testament teachers exist, and try to enforce their pervasive teaching on Nigerians and the world.

People like, fro...,360,Drum... Etc.
Beware..!!!

Heb 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

I have left them to their false convictions.Jesus words judges them already.

DrummaBoy:

And is it not obvious from this response of yours that you have a lot to learn? But you make so much noise on the forum you cannot even hear yourself talkless of hearing what others are saying.

Goshen is shaking his head for you. I think one should weep for you; realizing that you are one person on this forum that I know ministers to people. So if you know little, the people you minister to will know nothing.

Goshen, this one pass shaking of head for this chap O... the guy needs help,

Everyone has a lot to learn concerning the word of God,but on the issue of the tithe it is really a pity you erred bro..And to set the record straight i have never told you or any one in this forum that i pastor a church, that is your assumptions.If you neglect the words of Jesus who came from the Father by quoting Wikipedia and so called mystery of Paul which i haven't seen so far except the dustbin you put up there it's no surprise.As Paul rightly pointed out to you in Romans:"The carnal mind is enmity against God:for it is NOT subject to the Law of God neither can it be.This aptly describe what you said below here:

DrummaBoy:

I believe that God himself is behind this tithe controversy

I am done arguing with a carnal minded fellow.

@oiseworld
True, where some who have shaky foundations fall when they hear things pleasing to their ears.

Alwaystrue:
When you understand the principle for what you are doing, it will not be an offence to you to tithe as it helps the work of the ministry along with other forms of giving to others. Loving one's neighbour covers everyone, family, friends, poor & needy, ministers of the gospel like those in your local church & in missions who I believe you love as well and deserve wages.

what exactly is the principle in tithing? All I see here is talk about love. Is love the principle? Maybe the principle is actually the motivation for carrying out the act of tithing (i.e. Love, as indicated in your post above). Please stop confusing your target poster or audience. If tithing is an act of love, it cannot be taught as a practice for others to follow. You cannot begin to quantify love (i.e. 10% love), that maybe the reason the apostles did not teach tithe. People should express their love as much as they can (as they are led by the spirit). If it by giving 10% or 50% of their income to their church to further the gospel its all good. Teaching people % loving or giving is wrong.

^ Ahhh...! You dare to challenge her 'principle' and come down with her wrath? Take your time man. Better to meet a loins robbed of his meat, than to meet a Pastor whose tithe collecting is threatened.

Thanks Bidam for trying but your best was not good enough. As for your ministering... I didn't say U are a Pastor, I said U 'minister'.

Its good the tithe argument is fallen apart bit by bit; truth is pro-tithers do not have an argument in the first place.

BTW this is Drumma... DrummaBoy, until Ayatollah Maclatunji Khomenini un-bans me.

Alwaystrue: @oiseworld
True, where some who have shaky foundations fall when they hear things pleasing to their ears.

some... aka Drummaboy... aka DejiYesufu

You are still very welcome my dear... any day.

oiseworld: Nairaland Religious section.

# Place where students know more than their teachers.

#place where heresy thrives.

# place where self ordained New Testament teachers exist, and try to enforce their pervasive teaching on Nigerians and the world.

People like, fro...,360,Drum... Etc.
Beware..!!!

Heb 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Prove your case and hold fast to that which is good. Stop attacking personalities, treat issues.