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Visaofficer Has A Question For You by VisaOfficer: 8:06am On Aug 28, 2013
Hi all,

I'm a U.S. Foreign Service Officer working in a Consular section in western Africa. I have a thread going at https://www.nairaland.com/1359935/u.s-consular-officer-ask-me where people can ask me visa-related questions. I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to ask YOU a question.

Women who have newborn babies often come to us wanting visas or U.S. passports for the babies. If anything seems odd about the case, we sometimes suggest a DNA test. As you may have seen in the news, sometimes it turns out that the baby is not at all related to the woman claiming to be the mother; but the woman insists that the baby is hers and that she gave birth to it. As one news story put it:

The woman said she paid N1.8 million to the owner of the clinic. She said when the DNA result was out, it was discovered that the baby did not belong to her as the child lacked the genetic marks that must be contributed to the child by the biological parents. ... "They are mine. I paid N1.8 million to H. O., the owner of the clinic and she gave me some local herbs (Agbo), which eventually produced the babies."

The women allege that they were given herbal treatments and told not to see a regular doctor as that would disrupt the herbal effect; that they came back to see the "clinic owner" nine months later; that they were sedated, "to make the birth easier"; and that when they awoke, lo and behold, they had a baby (sometimes two babies!).

Here is my question. Do you think that the women think they're telling the truth? Please give me your insight.

Many thanks in advance!
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Nobody: 8:38am On Aug 28, 2013
My personal opinion and take is this ............some women might be sincere; but majority are just desperate to adopt due to been barren for so long and the societal/family stigmatisation of not having a child hence they result to doing anything to have or pay to have a child, and they are ready to go to any length to lie, get visa and take the baby to the US.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by bamakoe(f): 8:41am On Aug 28, 2013
VisaOfficer: Hi all,

I'm a U.S. Foreign Service Officer working in a Consular section in western Africa. I have a thread going at https://www.nairaland.com/1359935/u.s-consular-officer-ask-me where people can ask me visa-related questions. I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to ask YOU a question.

Women who have newborn babies often come to us wanting visas or U.S. passports for the babies. If anything seems odd about the case, we sometimes suggest a DNA test. As you may have seen in the news, sometimes it turns out that the baby is not at all related to the woman claiming to be the mother; but the woman insists that the baby is hers and that she gave birth to it. As one news story put it:

The woman said she paid N1.8 million to the owner of the clinic. She said when the DNA result was out, it was discovered that the baby did not belong to her as the child lacked the genetic marks that must be contributed to the child by the biological parents. ... "They are mine. I paid N1.8 million to H. O., the owner of the clinic and she gave me some local herbs (Agbo), which eventually produced the babies."

The women allege that they were given herbal treatments and told not to see a regular doctor as that would disrupt the herbal effect; that they came back to see the "clinic owner" nine months later; that they were sedated, "to make the birth easier"; and that when they awoke, lo and behold, they had a baby (sometimes two babies!).

Here is my question. Do you think that the women think they're telling the truth? Please give me your insight.

Many thanks in advance!

Couldn't stop wondering myself! Although I've read a few stories like this in the news and indeed testified to such 'hospitals' existence around especially in Port Harcourt and Lagos, it's just another means scammers use to defraud desperate women trying to conceive. They set up camps where they force some teens to be impregnated and deliver babies ready to be the supposed babies delivered by the desperate women given such herbs to drink. They usually sedate them so that during the so called births, the woman 'feels' she had actually gone through childbirth.
But to answer your question, yes there are such 'hospitals' smiley

Just to add that the women would normally be given this herbal treatment all along the supposed pregnancy period that indeed makes their tummy bulge. But they'd be advised not to see a conventional doctor as they wouldn't see any foetus should they perform any scan and that they should come to the hospital ' whenever' only the 'hospital' calls them to give birth......that's when they know they have a baby ready to be sold to them .....

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by VisaOfficer: 8:59am On Aug 28, 2013
Thanks to you both and I hope other people chime in.

I've had a man tell me that of course he was the father of his wife's baby in the U.S. -- even though they hadn't seen each other in person for three years before the child was born. "You see, it was a spiritual pregnancy." I want to be respectful if that's what he actually believes (but that doesn't mean I believe it too); but I had to wonder if he just thought I was unintelligent enough to believe anything.

With these babies, I can't figure out if the women are being scammed, or if they're trying to scam us. I suppose it's possible that we see some of both.
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by saintkola(m): 9:00am On Aug 28, 2013
Of course they were lying.. They probably bought them babies at some baby factory in those poor communities and concoted some BS story about herbal treatments and whatnot.
In my opinion such people should be deported and given 10 years ban from travelling to USA in other to deter others!

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Pacify: 10:08am On Aug 28, 2013
Most times, it's never the victims fault....

They probably were introduced by friends who offered to help them out of their barren situations.

However, the catch is when they pay huge sums of money and told never to visit hospitals.

Young girls who put to bed are paid little things in exchange for the children. These children are then given to those women.
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by musajohn80: 10:13am On Aug 28, 2013
This is a complicated issue presently occurring in Nigeria. Most of these people/parents who are desperate fail to ask basic questions as to why they cannot go to another place to give birth after the pre-pregnancy treatment. The truth is most of them do not even know the child does not belong to them since they have been injected/given herbal drugs to make their tommy bulge. And at the point of delivery they are sedated and when they wake up they are given their supposed " new baby" ( originally delivered in a baby factory somewhere else at a fee).

On the other hand there is a mutual agreement between the hospital owners and the supposed parents.
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Ralphlauren(m): 10:16am On Aug 28, 2013
I believe most of them are telling the truth and they believe anything they've been told by herbal practioners.

barreness is a very tough issue for many couples. if they've been instructed NOT to visit any hospital so as not to harm the 'pregnancy', i guess most of them will adhere to such advice.

once the woman is sedated, she is not really aware of anything going on around her. i actually feel very sorry for such women.

i think they are being cheated and taken advantage of because of their desire to have children.

1 Like

Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Naijalastborn(m): 10:18am On Aug 28, 2013
saintkola: Of course they were lying.. They probably bought them babies at some baby factory in those poor communities and concoted some BS story about herbal treatments and whatnot.
In my opinion such people should be deported and given 10 years ban from travelling to USA in other to deter others!
Mr. OBAMA... grin

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by VisaOfficer: 10:29am On Aug 28, 2013
While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by bamakoe(f): 11:03am On Aug 28, 2013
VisaOfficer: While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.

Of course only a dumb would believe such thing! When people are desperate to get away with situations there's nothing they wouldn't say. This one beats me though

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by musajohn80: 11:31am On Aug 28, 2013
VisaOfficer: While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.

Spiritual pregnancy!!! That's not possible.
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by okeymen: 11:55am On Aug 28, 2013
It is possible that the women were scammed, but its still a little far fetched because if for nothing else, the pregnancy would have to grow steadily for some 6 to nine months.

The most plausible answer however is that the women themselves are in on it. I understand paying so much for IVF, but to pay a native doctor N1.8m?! What happened to all the 'native foul' and 'virgin goats' that native doctors ask for? What they must have done is buy the babies from some black market and try to flee to avoid any repercussions if (like happens from time to time) the story gets out. At the very least, anyone with such claims should be investigated for human trafficking and attempted smuggling.

Another thing you should understand is that lots of things we assume to be common knowledge are not common at all so you may find that these "mothers" do not have a clue what DNA testing is all about. They may just see it as being the same as blood group tests or even genotype tests so they will stand there and argue with the very limited knowledge they have.

Lastly, the fear of being handed over to the authorities can make people say anything. they will hope that the cultural differences will leave you wondering if what they say is true or at least possible, especially since stories like that abound in this part of the world

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by okeymen: 11:59am On Aug 28, 2013
VisaOfficer: While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.

It did happen once some 2000 years ago in the history of mankind and there are still a lot of people that will dispute that. That occurrence was not even in Arica.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by okeymen: 12:04pm On Aug 28, 2013
Ralphlauren: I believe most of them are telling the truth and they believe anything they've been told by herbal practioners.

barreness is a very tough issue for many couples. if they've been instructed NOT to visit any hospital so as not to harm the 'pregnancy', i guess most of them will adhere to such advice.

once the woman is sedated, she is not really aware of anything going on around her. i actually feel very sorry for such women.

i think they are being cheated and taken advantage of because of their desire to have children.

think of the caliber of woman that has N1.8m to spare. think of the 9 months that lead to the delivery. think about the relatives that most likely would have to be there to witness the birth and care for the mother and child immediately after.....
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Nobody: 12:14pm On Aug 28, 2013
okeymen:

think of the caliber of woman that has N1.8m to spare. think of the 9 months that lead to the delivery. think about the relatives that most likely would have to be there to witness the birth and care for the mother and child immediately after.....

You don't get it. These native Doctors do not allow any relative to be present during the delivery. Not even the husbands of these women are allowed into the "labor room". The herbal concoction given to these women perfectly mimics pregnancy, makes their tummies grow steadily during the nine months and also ceasing their menstrual flow. So they actually believe they are Pregnant! Coupled with the fact that a desperate barren woman can believe just Anything!

Yes, native doctors these days are not smiling ooooo. They don't do the goat and fowl ish anylonger. They bill much More than some top hospitals.

Most of these couples are innocent and ignorant of what these native doctors do. Their desperation makes them believe just anything.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Ralphlauren(m): 12:18pm On Aug 28, 2013
VisaOfficer: While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.

that is another lie which is sold to these women who are desperately looking for a child.

they are brainwashed into believing all sorts by the ''nurses and matrons'' in these so called maternity homes
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Ralphlauren(m): 12:31pm On Aug 28, 2013
okeymen:

think of the caliber of woman that has N1.8m to spare. think of the 9 months that lead to the delivery. think about the relatives that most likely would have to be there to witness the birth and care for the mother and child immediately after.....

i dont get it. what's your point?
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Okontami: 1:07pm On Aug 28, 2013
Make Beliefs , religion , and deceits are the tools used by a lot of individuals here. Because of high dependence on spirituality, a lot of people put their faith in what these spiritual heads tells them. That is why a lot of TTC women fall prey of these scammers. It is not the fault of the victims all the time, they are just victim of an organized crime.

The victims are given stuffs to use to cause a placebo effect on them, which in turn make them believe they have truly conceived .

It is very difficult to explain to them the reality on ground as they can not comprehend it that their spiritual head's pronouncement has not come to pass.

For example, few years ago, a 62 years old childless woman felt a sort of movement in her tummy and went straight to her prophet ; the prophet told her point blank that she was pregnant. She called the family members to tell them about the pronouncement of the prophet . This is a woman without se*xu*al relationship lately and probably in menopause. It took the family members a lot of persuasion to really get her tested and tell her she wasn't pregnant.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by okeymen: 2:21pm On Aug 28, 2013
Na wa o! anyway, if anything is to be done, it has to start from those making such claims. they need to be properly investigated to reduce most of the speculation. eventually, the investigation will lead to the brain running the syndicates and their operations shut down.
Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by WildChild00(m): 3:46pm On Aug 28, 2013
"Spiritual pregnancy" according to some ancient african traditional scholars, has to do with when a woman has her first sense of child's presence in dream or waking life, basically it has to do with the norms and tradition of our african believe, I will post some links and long write up about it later today.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by WileECoyote: 9:55pm On Aug 28, 2013
World history is littered with devious people who are gifted, unfortunately, with skills to perform mind control on others. It is my opinion that some of these folks really believe that they are indeed pregnant when they are not.

How can we explain the people that drank Jim Jones koolaid and the Heavens Gate cult.

Of course, as long as the DNA is performed by a certified lab and it fails then no benefit should be given. I do wonder though if the people who sought American benefits fully understand what DNA is. Do the applicants know that a DNA would be performed and they just took a gamble?

I am starting to see some of the causes of the length of time it takes to unite legitimate families. You folks are too busy dealing with time wasting silly stuff like this at the embassy.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by osashilton: 10:37pm On Aug 28, 2013
VisaOfficer: While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.

My VO sir, to be honest with u, there is no such thing as spiritual pregnancy. Even if it is a miracle a barren woman get pregnant. After birth, her child would definately hv DNA connecting to the mother. Even Jesus must hv had Mary's DNA. Let's call a spade, a spade. DNA test don't lie. That simple sir.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by osashilton: 10:42pm On Aug 28, 2013
okeymen:

think of the caliber of woman that has N1.8m to spare. think of the 9 months that lead to the delivery. think about the relatives that most likely would have to be there to witness the birth and care for the mother and child immediately after.....
Oga! What's ur point?

1 Like

Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by tellwisdom: 12:31am On Aug 29, 2013
VisaOfficer: While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by tpia5: 12:43am On Aug 29, 2013
VisaOfficer: Thanks to you both and I hope other people chime in.

I've had a man tell me that of course he was the father of his wife's baby in the U.S. -- even though they hadn't seen each other in person for three years before the child was born. "You see, it was a spiritual pregnancy." I want to be respectful if that's what he actually believes (but that doesn't mean I believe it too); but I had to wonder if he just thought I was unintelligent enough to believe anything.

With these babies, I can't figure out if the women are being scammed, or if they're trying to scam us. I suppose it's possible that we see some of both.

Maybe he shipped his sp.erm over to her abi how you wan see am.

Either way, seems like they have an arrangement as per eating cake and having it.

1 Like

Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by optimusprime2(m): 4:07am On Aug 29, 2013
VisaOfficer: While we're at it, could someone explain the whole "spiritual pregnancy" thing to me? I appreciate your help.
Mr VisaOfficer,
I know it sounds wierd or strange, but let me just be frank, "This is West Africa" alot of unbelieveable "spiritual" stuff happens around here- welcome to our world.
You wont imagine the kind of diabolic/fetish things desperate women do in order to get pregnant, so I wont be surprised if you encountered that sort of case.
You may want to analyse such cases critically, but if theres all proof the lady gave birth to the baby, I guess thats pretty much the truth. Trust me I'v seen much stranger cases and they were'nt scam/arranged cases either.
Make inquiries or google about "Dada" children or "Ogbanje" children, I'm sure most people on this thread know what I'm talking about.
"Spiritual Pregnancies" may sound absurd, but dont rule out that possibility completely- thats why it has a name.
Like I said before, welcome to Africa.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by VisaOfficer: 7:35am On Aug 29, 2013
Wile.E.Coyote:
I am starting to see some of the causes of the length of time it takes to unite legitimate families. You folks are too busy dealing with time wasting silly stuff like this at the embassy.

I want to turn this quote into a banner and hang it in our waiting room!!!

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by VisaOfficer: 7:38am On Aug 29, 2013
osashilton: My VO sir, to be honest with u, there is no such thing as spiritual pregnancy. Even if it is a miracle a barren woman get pregnant. After birth, her child would definately hv DNA connecting to the mother. Even Jesus must hv had Mary's DNA. Let's call a spade, a spade. DNA test don't lie. That simple sir.

How funny, I was just pondering Jesus's DNA myself yesterday.

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by osashilton: 12:18pm On Aug 29, 2013
VisaOfficer:

How funny, I was just pondering Jesus's DNA myself yesterday.
cheesy lolz! U also wonder whose DNA adam and eve carried? #justsaying

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Re: Visaofficer Has A Question For You by Nobody: 2:41pm On Aug 29, 2013
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