9jadelta: a pagan wont kill you or discriminate or demonize you for not believing his god. they don't follow a stupid book that asks them to do horrible things to people of different beliefs. if atheists/pagan alliance is what it takes to defeat the menace that islam and Christianity (especially islam) has brought to our society, then am 200% in

hahahahahaa, I no fit laff abeg. Funny thread.

Logicboy03:



I seriously disagree with your spirituality but this comment is the plain truth. Some atheists just leave chrisyianity and islam then they think that it is over. They dont take time to study other religions and traditions.



I am not a spritual or religious person but at least, i can discuss with poeple from many religions because i took ime to read the basic things about them. Knowledge frees people


Also, we should learn from the Japanese. They are mostly atheists but they respect their budfhist or shinto heritage.


It is a shame that some atheists are looking at paganism from an xtian point of view. No p, respect your culture or at least make money from it to feed your people. Do you know how much Buddhist temples make from tourism.......white people would pay tosee or study our cultural idols and shrines.

You made a lot of sense.

Maybe I was a little hasty in dismissing of the pagans.

Logicboy03:



I seriously disagree with your spirituality but this comment is the plain truth. Some atheists just leave chrisyianity and islam then they think that it is over. They dont take time to study other religions and traditions.



I am not a spritual or religious person but at least, i can discuss with poeple from many religions because i took ime to read the basic things about them. Knowledge frees people


Also, we should learn from the Japanese. They are mostly atheists but they respect their budfhist or shinto heritage.


It is a shame that some atheists are looking at paganism from an xtian point of view. No p, respect your culture or at least make money from it to feed your people. Do you know how much Buddhist temples make from tourism.......white people would pay tosee or study our cultural idols and shrines.

We cant really agree on everything. I think disagreement brings about exploration in different angle but should serve for the betterment of Human. This is how competitiveness came and it serving us in every sectors.

Because you didn't agree on spirituality shouldn't be a reason for doing the religitard job. It should either be we leave it as it is or we dig out it originality. We should know that spirit is not monster that talk, eat, drink blood and cause evil like it is depicted by religion. Spirituality also isn't worshipping of demons or practising of demonic acts. Spirituality as I have known is observing, experimenting, questioning, searching and exploring. Spirituality and science are on different sides of a coin.

Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality---carl Sagan

Sam Harris (atheist) in 'kill the buddhist' put more light on buddhism and spirituality. He touched the area of spirituality benefit to science and world at large. You once said he your post that you cant team with illiterate which brings different question to me like who is going to liberate and educate those illiterate if everyone ignore them? If we build Africa, im very sure African (and those yet to born) at home and in diaspora will enjoy it. We should do more than turning our culture to oldspot for tourism.....we should educate ourselves, free ourselves from every oppression and hijack what belong to us from religion dogma.

I agree that which ever side of the coin you choose to work with, we should do it to make mankind better.

Ray McBlue: *Finished contemplation*

I have reached a decision.

Apart from being embattled by both Christian and Muslims, Paganism has nothing in common with Atheism.

Paganism still represent something I despise and that's mental slavery. Okay, so their religion is not of foreign origin, so what? It doesn't make them any different than those that go to church every Sunday.

[size=16pt]Pagans believe in a deity[/size]

I detest the association and comparison.

We are nothing alike.

you are viewing this in a "christian" way. most "pagan" religions are not "organized"(more or less) their is no Pope, preachers, pastors etc telling you this and that. their "god/s" are not like the Abrahamic god here is an example

Shinto is based on belief in, and worship of, kami.

The best English translation of kami is 'spirits', but this is an over-simplification of a complex concept - kami can be elements of the landscape or forces of nature.

Kami are close to human beings and respond to human prayers. They can influence the course of natural forces, and human events.

Shinto tradition says that there are eight million million kami in Japan.

Concepts of kami

Shinto belief includes several ideas of kami: while these are closely related, they are not completely interchangeable and reflect not only different ideas but different interpretations of the same idea.

Kami can refer to beings or to a quality which beings possess.

So the word is used to refer to both the essence of existence or beingness which is found in everything, and to particular things which display the essence of existence in an awe-inspiring way.

But while everything contains kami, only those things which show their kami-nature in a particularly striking way are referred to as kami.

Kami as a property is the sacred or mystical element in almost anything. It is in everything and is found everywhere, and is what makes an object itself rather than something else. The word means that which is hidden.

Kami have a specific life-giving, harmonising power, called musubi, and a truthful will, called makoto (also translated as sincerity).

Not all kami are good - some are thoroughly evil.

Kami as 'God'

The idea that kami are the same as God stems in part from the use of the word kami to translate the word 'God' in some 19th century translations of the Bible into Japanese.

This caused a great deal of confusion even among Japanese: the Shinto theologian Ueda Kenji estimated in 1990 that nearly 6[b]5% of entering students now associate the Japanese term kami with some version of the Western concept of a supreme being.

The next section shows that kami are actually very different from the Western concept of God.[/b]

Kami as beings

The concept of kami is hard to explain.

Shintoists would say that this is because human beings are simply incapable of forming a true understanding of the nature of kami.

To make understanding easier kami are often described as[b] divine beings, as spirits or gods[/b]. But kami are not much like the gods of other faiths:

Kami are not divine like the transcendent and omnipotent deities found in many religions.
Kami are not omnipotent.
Kami are not perfect - they sometimes make mistakes and behave badly.
Kami are not inherently different in kind from human beings or nature - they are just a higher manifestation of the life energy... an extraordinary or awesome version.
Kami don't exist in a supernatural universe - they live in the same world as human beings and the world of nature

Kami include the gods that created the universe, but can also include:

The spirits that inhabit many living beings
Some beings themselves
Elements of the landscape, like mountains and lakes
Powerful forces of nature, like storms and earthquakes
human beings who became kami after their deaths

The term kami is sometimes applied to spirits that live in things, but it is also applied directly to the things themselves - so the kami of a mountain or a waterfall may be the actual mountain or waterfall, rather than the spirit of the mountain or waterfall.

Not all kami are sufficiently personalised to have names - some are just referred to as the kami of such-and-such a place.

Three types of kami are particularly important:

Ujigami, the ancestors of the clans: in tribal times, each group believed that a particular kami was both their ancestor and their protector, and dedicated their worship to that spirit
Kami of natural objects and creatures, and of the forces of nature
The souls of dead human beings of outstanding achievement

here is a quote from a native American:
“If you take [a copy of] the Christian Bible and put it out in the wind and the rain, soon the paper on which the words are printed will disintegrate and the words will be gone. Our bible IS the wind and the rain”

Ray McBlue:

You made a lot of sense.

Maybe I was a little hasty in dismissing of the pagans.

"Don't Curse the Darkness, Light a Candle" - Chinese Proverb

PAGAN 9JA:


Yes some Tribes did human sacrifice. I agree 100 %.

However those were days of Tribal warfare, when only the survival of your ethnic group mattered. This was the natural order of things. It was also a natural order of things, that kept the populations of different tribes at check in relation with resources available. Even upto 50 yrs back, the Nomadic tribes of Arabia and Sudan used to keep raiding each others cattle depending on who was facing more drought. However that is a different matter. The sacrificial victims were mostly Criminal prisoners or POWs.

Also the Tribes would NEVER sacrifice or enslave their own people. Be it a large Ethnic group like the ANcient Romans (now extinct) or a small Tribe like the Dayaks of Malaysia.

Let me give you the Pagan point of view. As an atheist you believe in science yes? Then you also believe that whether human or animal, a life is a life. According to Pagan ideals, all creatures on this planet, be it animals, plants or humans, are equally created and important for the workings of this world. When you want something, you must give back something in return. this is called a sacrifice. when you want money, you sacrifice your effort to obtain it, when you want to eat, you sacrifice your money to buy food. in the same way,etc., when people want something from the divine forces, such as rains for good crops, etc. they have to give back something in return. This is in line with physics, i.e., the opposing forces have to be balanced. now what they give back depends on the ritual, mode & context. it maybe a chicken, or a goat or vgetables, or something like that. now we believe that if other animals can be sacrificed, then why not humans this is why it was so in the past that criminals, POWS, etc., instead of normal execution as was the norm of aftermaths of battles in those days, they were killed on the altar of the Gods. now there is no real difference if they die in the gallows or on the altar, is there instead there is a + point if on the altar, because atleast the sacrifice would be appeased.
ofcourse Paganism is ever-evolving and such rituals can be subdued or changed according to current circumstances, but there is no difference really. .

and you may call me a savage but I don't mind if a child r.apist or murderer met that fate.

is okija pagan or not?

PAGAN 9JA:


blah blah blah.

Grows did you say?

yep..they grow far better in christain environs than were pagans recide..even logic boy complained about the high level of illiteracy that abounds in paganism on the first page.

joel lala:

yep..they grow far better in christain environs than were pagans recide..even logic boy complained about the high level of illiteracy that abounds in paganism on the first page.

most of most of the world is not "pagan"
[img]http://origins.osu.edu/sites/default/files/Prevailing_world_religions_map.png[/img]

Ray McBlue:

You made a lot of sense.

Maybe I was a little hasty in dismissing of the pagans.

u never dismissed the pagans rather u stated ur thoughts about pagan atheist collabo which was true so stick to wat u think and dnt be swayed by their own opinions

TerryCarr: most of most of the world is not "pagan"
[img]http://origins.osu.edu/sites/default/files/Prevailing_world_religions_map.png[/img]

never said most of the world was.

joel lala:


u never dismissed the pagans rather u stated ur thoughts about pagan atheist collabo which was true so stick to wat u think and dnt be swayed by their own opinions

I might have been a little tunnel visioned in my earlier posts, selfishly analysing the whole thing from one angle. But there are other angles to consider, and when you do, suddenly everything is not so black and white anymore.

joel lala:


u never dismissed the pagans rather u stated ur thoughts about pagan atheist collabo which was true so stick to wat u think and dnt be swayed by their own opinions

one of the main reasons (or should I say the major reason) of coming to online forum is too learn and rub minds with people. if you think you know everything or u have to stick to the status quo even when the truth is giving u a heavy knock on ur forehead, then I don't see any reason why u should come to a forum. the guy saw that he was to hasty in His decisions and decides refrain to learn more but u still want him to stay with the status quo cos it appeals you

people learn new things when they decide to let go of the illusion that they're used too

9jadelta:

people learn new things when they decide to let go of the illusion that they're used too

classic!!!!(THE MATRIX film explain in better) we are all wallowing in one illusion or the other at every point in time.. realizing this is called spirituality or reality which was what @folykaze was trying to explain

beejaay:
classic!!!!(THE MATRIX film explain in better) we are all wallowing in one illusion or the other at every point in time.. realizing this is called spirituality or reality which was what @folykaze was trying to explain

Most Atheist and religitard think spirituality is all about worshipping demons and deity or doing rituals and sacrifices...... We got a long way to go. Just hope African catch up with their mentality or else, we will become oppress till the sun stop to shine

FOLYKAZE:

Most Atheist and religitard think spirituality is all about worshipping demons and deity or doing rituals and sacrifices...... We got a long way to go. Just hope African catch up with their mentality or else, we will become oppress till the sun stop to shine

Other continents are expanding there horizons about what reality/spirituality is(especially the west),africa is still defending the indefensible and willing to die/kill for it.
As for atheist, atheism is the next phase in the course of human evolution and whether atheist like it or not they will grow out it and move to the next phase(the time this will happen doesn't really matter, if not this civilization certainly next) or they will eventually be like the religious folks we av now.
One thing I know is that paganism will always be around(since paganism is like worshipping or venerating ancestors and there will always beexceptional ancestors in all ages..) Do I support paganism?(Am indifferent)

beejaay:
Other continents are expanding there horizons about what reality/spirituality is(especially the west),africa is still defending the indefensible and willing to die/kill for it.
As for atheist, atheism is the next phase in the course of human evolution and whether atheist like it or not they will grow out it and move to the next phase(the time this will happen doesn't really matter, if not this civilization certainly next) or they will eventually be like the religious folks we av now.
One thing I know is that paganism will always be around(since paganism is like worshipping or venerating ancestors and there will always beexceptional ancestors in all ages..) Do I support paganism?(Am indifferent)

Paganising is more than venerating ancestors. Our ancestors lives in us in the DNA.

Paganism is more like admiration for the world around you, nature and everything therein.

joel lala:


is okija pagan or not?

not sure in real life. He does profess sympathy to Pagans here.

joel lala:

yep..they grow far better in christain environs than were pagans recide..even logic boy complained about the high level of illiteracy that abounds in paganism on the first page.

nonsense. Pagan Nations are filled with atheists.

joel lala:


u never dismissed the pagans rather u stated ur thoughts about pagan atheist collabo which was true so stick to wat u think and dnt be swayed by their own opinions

shut up. atleast he is not egotistic.

Brother Folykase. You spoke very well on this thread. The Gods Bless You.

Now since we have an approximate idea of who is in, we must find a suitable area for our plans and discussions.


Since Obaidah has been so kind to give us that atheist/Voodoo section, I think we must make good use of it.

PAGAN 9JA:
Now since we have an approximate idea of who is in, we must find a suitable area for our plans and discussions.


Since Obaidah has been so kind to give us that atheist/Voodoo section, I think we must make good use of it.

We need you there. You have to be the change you want to see happen!

Logicboy03:


We need you there. You have to be the change you want to see happen!

where are you?