There's difference between the covenant and the law. We are not under the old covenant but the law itself contain certain principles that are right .

We don't know what sin is except for the law.

Romans 7:7
if it had not been for the Law, I should not have recognized sin or have known its meaning. [For instance] I would not have known about covetousness [would have had no consciousness of sin or sense of guilt] if the Law had not [repeatedly] said, You shall not covet and have an evil desire [for one thing and another].

So principles are forever. Principles travelled in the law didn't die with the law. We have had different constitution in our nation . But there' are element which are foundational in every constitution . They remain even after the old constitution is abolished by the new. For example .we had had litleton constitition in nigeria which was replaced by clifford constitution in 1947 and Macpherson constitution in Nigeria 1951 Murder will always be a crime In every constitution . So the law contains elements that are eternal principles and principles transcends dispensations .

Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Because the Jewish covenant is obsolete does that justify murder or idolatry now?

Why don't we just live in sin because the old is gone?

The only issue about the law is that it cannot bring justification or make a man right before God. You can use the law on a lawfulf way.

1Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Because of its principles but don't seek to be justified by it becsuse a man can only be justified by faith .

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law:for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Spot on!

No one, if it had not been the law we would not have known sin, for where there was no law there was no sin!
But this is not mean we are led by the law, for in this dispensation we are led by the spirit.

I will help you tear down the Law (of Moses) soon. Wait some few minutes.

^

Joagbaje: Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

The verse above makes it clear that Jesus has abolished the law of commandments, contained in ordinances, given to the Jews in the Old Testament. He fulfilled them and abolished them. The laws and commandments of the Old Testament are not relevant to the new creation in Christ Jesus. It’s therefore wrong for you to live your life trying to obey the Law.

Hebrews 7:12
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The Lord Jesus became our High Priest in the New Testament, not in the order of the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood, but in the order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:17&21). This signifies an eternal priesthood; a new priesthood, headed by Jesus Christ, different from what obtained in the Old Testament.
Now, the importance of that is this: Jesus Christ has become our High Priest, and He’s not the High Priest of the Old Testament Law; He has a new law. Remember what we read in Hebrews 7:12, that a change in priesthood automatically means a change of the Law. Since the priesthood has been changed and Jesus Christ is now our High Priest in the New Testament, the law has also been changed. That’s why Jesus said in

John 13:34,
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another

Love has replaced all the laws and ordinances of the Old Testament (Read Romans 13:8-10)

. In Matthew 22:37-40
"…Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.".

‎​This however doesn’t mean that the Old Testament is not useful to us today.

Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

The things written in the Old Testament have been written only for our learning; they’re not the revelations by which we live today as new creations in Christ. Now learn more of what it is to walk in love.

https://www.nairaland.com/1097427/law-been-abolished

Hebrews 9:16-17
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The Old Convenant took effect on the Israelites ONLY AFTER the sacrifice of blood. But before the convenant took effect God had to give His laws, statutes and judgements (ordinances) FIRST. The blood of the bulls and sheep simply SEALED the bond.

But because the people could not fulfil their part and infact did so much evil, God has to send His Son Jesus Christ to avert the imminent curse on the earth.
Malachi 4:5-6
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

And the word of God in Malachi was fulfilled below when Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist, who had come to prepare the way.
Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

And Jesus finally came, born of a woman, under the law (Galatians 4:4) to redeem those under the law as seen by some of the deliverances from devils miracles He did.
So THE WORD OF GOD BECAME FLESH.
John 1:14,17
And the WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:15 Having ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH the ENMITY, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances ; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, AND took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

It was while Jesus was IN THE FLESH that He abolished the law of commandments CONTAINED in ordinances (Exodus chapter 21-24)that was causing enmity between Jews and Gentiles....Read the story of the Samaritan woman for example in John 4, and the commission to take the gospel to the end of the earth (totally different from just Israel alone). Also read Matthew 5 and see where He was abolishing the judgements for going against those ordinances. e.g. Eye for eye etc. It was at His death that he TOTALLY TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY by nailing it to the cross being a sacrifice for sins. The 10 commandments were not the ordinances. Jesus was even very angry when the traditions of men were put over the law of God. Tithe and offerings were already before the law and are not the ordinances often misconstrues in Malachi 3:7 as that scripture is not talking about Malachi 3:8....verse 7 was already answered in verse 7.

That is why scriptures says: Jesus is the end of the law FOR righteousness to them that believe (Romans 10:4) because the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us when we walk in the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4) and you believe in Christ by believing His words (John 5:24) as well as the finished work on the cross. (John 19:30)

Why? Because all Jesus did and said while He was IN THE Flesh was THE TESTAMENT (THE TRUTH AND GRACE) which was only SEALED at His death by BLOOD. Hence the NEW CONVENANT!

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood, which confirms the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out as a sacrifice to forgive the sins of many


To read more on this and also the transfiguration, continue in https://www.nairaland.com/1455684/what-seem-difference-between-old#18398498

.

Joagbaje: There's difference between the covenant and the law. We are not under the old covenant but the law itself contain certain principles that are right .

We don't know what sin is except for the law.

Romans 7:7
if it had not been for the Law, I should not have recognized sin or have known its meaning. [For instance] I would not have known about covetousness [would have had no consciousness of sin or sense of guilt] if the Law had not [repeatedly] said, You shall not covet and have an evil desire [for one thing and another].

So principles are forever. Principles travelled in the law didn't die with the law. We have had different constitution in our nation . But there' are element which are foundational in every constitution . They remain even after the old constitution is abolished by the new. For example .we had had litleton constitition in nigeria which was replaced by clifford constitution in 1947 and Macpherson constitution in Nigeria 1951 Murder will always be a crime In every constitution . So the law contains elements that are eternal principles and principles transcends dispensations .

Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Because the Jewish covenant is obsolete does that justify murder or idolatry now?

Why don't we just live in sin because the old is gone?

The only issue about the law is that it cannot bring justification or make a man right before God. You can use the law on a lawfulf way.

1Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Because of its principles but don't seek to be justified by it because a man can only be justified by faith .

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law:for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The principles in the Law are not the problems but the interpretations are. Every principle contained in the law are perfect, but do you understand what they are really saying? This is why the law was referred to as a shadow of things to come(christinaity). What is the characteristics of a shadow? A shadow imitates the real substance, it acts according to the substance but ultimately, it is a misrepresentation of the substance. Do you take the parables of Jesus Christ(who was the law in flesh/person) literally? if you do, then you are lost. Do you take the saying "An eye for an eye, a life for a life " literally? then you are lost. Do you take the saying "A woman must not wear a man's clothes..." literally? if you do, then you are lost. These sayings are founded on God's perfect principles but the people to whom the law was given to were not also given the understanding to go with it (Romans 7:14), so everything they thought the law was saying was wrong, thus the abolishing of the law means the abolishing of what we thought and understood from the law.

The only way to understand all that the law was saying is to have a new mindset found only in Christ. This is what it means to be born again, to have a new mindset to re-interpret everything we'd heard before.

okeyxyz:

The principles in the Law are not the problems but the interpretations are. Every principle contained in the law are perfect,

Beautiful!

but do you understand what they are really saying? This is why the law was referred to as a shadow of things to come(christinaity). What is the characteristics of a shadow? A shadow imitates the real substance,it acts according to the substance but ultimately, it is a misrepresentation of the substance

The letter is the shadow ,the principle is the spirit and principles are eternal.

Do you take the parables of Jesus Christ(who was the law in flesh/person) literally? if you do, then you are lost. Do you take the saying "An eye for an eye, a life for a life " literally? then you are lost.

The principle here is the law of sowing and reaping. And it is eternal. Jesus confirmed this .

Revelation 13:10
:he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Do you take the saying "A woman must not wear a man's clothes..." literally? if you do, then you are lost. These sayings are founded on God's perfect principles but the people to whom the law was given to were not also given the understanding to go with it (Romans 7:14), so everything they thought the law was saying was wrong, thus the abolishing of the law means the abolishing of what we thought and understood from the law.

The only way to understand all that the law was saying is to have a new mindset found only in Christ. This is what it means to be born again, to have a new mindset to re-interpret everything we'd heard before.

We are saying thesame thing. Not everything in the law is literal. But the principles they are based upon are eternal. Secondly ,there are literal things in the law that have to be taken literarily because the are principle. Honoring thy father and mother is a principle . It is not a shadow. It is literal . And paul quoted it not once not twice.

Ephesians 6:2
Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

And to even think of the fact that he was quoting this law to Gentiles! Not Jews

Alwaystrue: Hebrews 9:16-17
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The Old Convenant took effect on the Israelites ONLY AFTER the sacrifice of blood. But before the convenant took effect.

That is why scriptures says: Jesus is the end of the law FOR righteousness to them that believe (Romans 10:4)
because the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us when we walk in the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4) and you believe in Christ by believing His words (John 5:24) as well as the finished work on the cross. (John 19:30)

The boldest part is true . Christ is the end of the law to righteousness . The key word there is RIGJTEOUSNESS. That doesn't mean The law is not good.

Joagbaje:

The boldest part is true . Christ is the end of the law to righteousness . The key word there is RIGJTEOUSNESS. That doesn't mean The law is not good.

The law is holy, just and good - Romans 7:12.
Romans 8:7-8 says a carnal mind is not subject to the law of God. As long as the law of God is seen with carnal eyes and the flesh, it will minister death to the carnal and fleshly.

Indeed, Jesus is the end of the law FOR righteousness TO them that BELIEVE....Believe the whole testament of Jesus. This was further seen when Jesus said the law and the prophets were until John....the reality of which was seen on the mount of transfiguration when God said this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, HEAR YE HIM!
Amen.

Joagbaje:

The boldest part is true . Christ is the end of the law to righteousness . The key word there is RIGJTEOUSNESS. That doesn't mean The law is not good.

The law as was given by Moses, with it's interpretations and derivatives/ordinances were definitely not good. It cannot be good because it defines sin in man's naturally given attributes, the same attributes that God himself declared to be good. The law is the condemner, not the giver of liberty and life.

Joagbaje:
Secondly ,there are literal things in the law that have to be taken literarily because the are principle. Honoring thy father and mother is a principle . It is not a shadow. It is literal . And paul quoted it not once not twice.

Ephesians 6:2
Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

And to even think of the fact that he was quoting this law to Gentiles! Not Jews

The law is deceptive in that it mixes the good with the bad, thus pretending to be the angel of light.

If your are a follower of the law, then you can take "Honour your father and mother..." literally. But as a spiritually minded person, i don't take them literally because they are my parents according to the flesh, not according to the spirit. They are the human traditional lineage that the world recognizes, though permissible, they are actually not the reference that God was was using for his doctrines/commandments.

Alwaystrue:

The law is holy, just and good - Romans 7:12.
Romans 8:7-8 says a carnal mind is not subject to the law of God. As long as the law of God is seen with carnal eyes and the flesh, it will minister death to the carnal and fleshly.

Indeed, Jesus is the end of the law FOR righteousness TO them that BELIEVE....Believe the whole testament of Jesus. This was further seen when Jesus said the law and the prophets were until John....the reality of which was seen on the mount of transfiguration when God said this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, HEAR YE HIM!
Amen.

The point of the thread is ,even though we are not bound by the law, yet the law contain principles that are right . The only weakness of the law is that it lack the power to make a man righteous. But it contain principles that are still relevant.

Joagbaje:


The point of the thread is ,even though we are not bound by the law, yet the law contain principles that are right . The only weakness of the law is that it lack the power to make a man righteous. But it contain principles that are still relevant.

What are these 'principles' contained in the law that are still relevant today?

Joagbaje: There's difference between the covenant and the law. We are not under the old covenant but the law itself contain certain principles that are right .

We don't know what sin is except for the law.

Romans 7:7
if it had not been for the Law, I should not have recognized sin or have known its meaning. [For instance] I would not have known about covetousness [would have had no consciousness of sin or sense of guilt] if the Law had not [repeatedly] said, You shall not covet and have an evil desire [for one thing and another].

So principles are forever. Principles travelled in the law didn't die with the law. We have had different constitution in our nation . But there' are element which are foundational in every constitution . They remain even after the old constitution is abolished by the new. For example .we had had litleton constitition in nigeria which was replaced by clifford constitution in 1947 and Macpherson constitution in Nigeria 1951 Murder will always be a crime In every constitution . So the law contains elements that are eternal principles and principles transcends dispensations .

Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Because the Jewish covenant is obsolete does that justify murder or idolatry now?

Why don't we just live in sin because the old is gone?

The only issue about the law is that it cannot bring justification or make a man right before God. You can use the law on a lawfulf way.

1Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Because of its principles but don't seek to be justified by it becsuse a man can only be justified by faith .

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law:for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Excellent points. I think this presents the relationship between the law and grace in a clearer manner than many.

Two quick points, though. Another major problem with the law - apart from the fact that it cannot justify anyone - is that the law provides a universal method for God's dealings with man whereas God would prefer an individual approach, as we see in His relationship and fellowship with Adam and Eve. God wants to tailor his instructions to each person to that person's circumstance. This is hard to do with the law. At the same time, God wants people's conduct regulated in accordance with His will and the law is the second best option. E.g., X may be driving home from work in the evening. He sees a man with a flat tire. He thinks it's dangerous to stop and help. There's no law that tells him he must stop to help fix a stranger's flat tire. The Holy Spirit whispers in his heart to stop and help. X does. Through that help, he wins the man to Christ (or the man turns out to be a rich man that helps X become wealthy). Another day, in the afternoon, X is driving and sees a man with a flat tire. He figures that if God wanted him to stop in a dangerous evening, He certainly wants him to stop and help in the afternoon. But the Holy Spirit tells X not to stop. X feels that cannot be God. He stops. An oncoming vehicle hits X and the man he was trying to help. If X had not stopped, both he and the stranded man would have been safe. In the absence of a close relationship or ability to speak to people's heart when they are not born again, the best God can do is make a law that says to stop (or not to stop) when you see somebody stranded. But as we've seen, that's not the best approach in all situations. A law written in the heart is much better.

The other point is that when Paul said that he would not have recognized sin unless he found it through the law, he was speaking for himself and maybe some others, but not everybody. Before the law, people knew what sin was. Joseph, who lived before the law, told Potiphar's wife: "How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?” Gen. 39:9 (NIV). Even pagans recognized sin, without having the law. See e.g. Gen. 20 - the story of King Abimelech, Sarah and Abraham.

okeyxyz:
The only way to understand all that the law was saying is to have a new mindset found only in Christ. This is what it means to be born again, to have a new mindset to re-interpret everything we'd heard before.

a new mindset is what the law of Christ is all about. Sad that some people are still looking for relevant principles in the mosaic law.

nlMediator:
But as we've seen, that's not the best approach in all situations. A law written in the heart is much better.

Thank you.

nlMediator:

Excellent points. I think this presents the relationship between the law and grace in a clearer manner than many.

Two quick points, though. Another major problem with the law - apart from the fact that it cannot justify anyone - is that the law provides a universal method for God's dealing. . . A law written in the heart is much better.

Of course but the conscience of man was corrupt. "They know not, they understand not"

The other point is that when Paul said that he would not have recognized sin unless he found it through the law, he was speaking for himself and maybe some others,

Men had unwritten law in the conscience . Sin existed But God didn't hold sin against them until the law was written.

Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world:but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

I'm not advocating law for saints. I'm only addressing the extreme many revelators go to condemn the content in the law. We are not bound by the law just as we are not build by 1951 constitution. But principles revealed in the law are not bad in themselves. Just as murder was condemned in the 1951 constitution. It's still an evelastiin principle . So if I do something which is consistent with principle in the law. I am not doing it because the law say so. But because it's a principle. The law only serves as reference point .