nwuyag: I ve actually wondered if apologists have considered this. Sometimes, I feel its more okay if they said that God is not omniscient instead of complicating issues. It sometimes seems to me that whoever wrote the bible just wanted to attribute all mighty powers as in a super hero movie and removed any possible weakpoint not knowing that he/she was contradicting himself.

Being omniscience doesn't mean he would make/coerce a choice on you, he created you in his image (with the ability to do good & evil); He however warned that you shouldn't do evil to avoid destruction, but you are here arguing with the words of your creator and also calling his righteous judgement evil? Is it evil/unrighteous for a judge to pass the death penalty on a murderer? So you shouldn't see God's righteous judgement of paying you according to your works as evil! If he decides for you then free will will be invalid...!

Image123:

You're being unfair to God if i may so say. What is your concept of omniscience and what is the Bible's concept.

How am I being unfair?
This is the general definition of omniscience from my dictionary
Omniscience n. 1. The quality or state of being omniscient; the quality of knowing everything
From the bible analogy, this is not compatible like the example I gave and that of david_hume and some others. I actually don't know or I can't point to the exact verse which says God is omniscient. But from the bible, it would have been safer to say that God knows many things/ intelligent but not omniscient

doubleDx:

Being omniscience doesn't mean he would make/coerce a choice on you, he created you in his image (with the ability to do good & evil); He however warned that you shouldn't do evil to avoid destruction, but you are here arguing with the words of your creator and also calling his righteous judgement evil? Is it evil/unrighteous for a judge to pass the death penalty on a murderer? So you shouldn't see God's righteous judgement of paying you according to your works as evil! If he decides for you then free will will be invalid...!

You are obviously not gettin the point. I don't know if you are doing it intentionally. I have prepared a picture illustration of the question which I will post later.
You also overemphasised on what I am not talking about.

Double post

Op, this question will be the begining of your many questions to come. So if you know you're not prepared for the answer you'll get, stop asking!

nwuyag:
How am I being unfair?
This is the general definition of omniscience from my dictionary
Omniscience n. 1. The quality or state of being omniscient; the quality of knowing everything
From the bible analogy, this is not compatible like the example I gave and that of david_hume and some others. I actually don't know or I can't point to the exact verse which says God is omniscient. But from the bible, it would have been safer to say that God knows many things/ intelligent but not omniscient

You're bein unfair in the sense that your context of omniscience(or anything OMNI if i may so say) does not align with the Bible's context and concept. i doubt that the Bible states that God knows everything BTW. i'm open to learning though.

Image123:

You're bein unfair in the sense that your context of omniscience(or anything OMNI if i may so say) does not align with the Bible's context and concept.

i doubt that the Bible states that God knows everything BTW. i'm open to learning though.

@Image123

Don't indulge him that way or give in to pressure

God Knows Everything

For the director of music. A psalm of David.

1 Lord, you have examined me
and know all about me.
2 You know when I sit down and when I get up.
You know my thoughts before I think them.
3 You know where I go and where I lie down.
You know everything I do.
4 Lord, even before I say a word,
you already know it.
5 You are all around me—in front and in back—
and have put your hand on me.
6 Your knowledge is amazing to me;
it is more than I can understand.
7 Where can I go to get away from your Spirit?
Where can I run from you?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there.
If I lie down in the grave, you are there.
9 If I rise with the sun in the east
and settle in the west beyond the sea,
10 even there you would guide me.
With your right hand you would hold me.
11 I could say, “The darkness will hide me.
Let the light around me turn into night.”
12 But even the darkness is not dark to you.
The night is as light as the day;
darkness and light are the same to you.
13 You made my whole being;
you formed me in my mother’s body.
14 I praise you because you made me in an amazing and wonderful way.
What you have done is wonderful.
I know this very well.
15 You saw my bones being formed
as I took shape in my mother’s body.
When I was put together there,
16 you saw my body as it was formed.
All the days planned for me
were written in your book
before I was one day old.
17 God, your thoughts are precious to me.
They are so many!
18 If I could count them,
they would be more than all the grains of sand.
When I wake up,
I am still with you.
19 God, I wish you would kill the wicked!
Get away from me, you murderers!
20 They say evil things about you.
Your enemies use your name thoughtlessly.
21 Lord, I hate those who hate you;
I hate those who rise up against you.
22 I feel only hate for them;
they are my enemies.
23 God, examine me and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any bad thing in me.
Lead me on the road to everlasting life.
- Psalm 139 New Century Version (NCV)

Yahweh knows the end from the beginning!

Isaiah 46:10 King James Version (KJV)

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Hmmm, thanks for the refreshing Psalm. i appreciate that Biblical context given. Lets hear from nwuyag.

Kabieosi:

@rationalmind

Why would omniscience conflict with Image123's answer?

Are you expecting God to be bogged down with hindrances because He is omniscient?

I don't even get your point. Isn't omniscience the ability to know all things?

rationalmind:

I don't even get your point. Isn't omniscience the ability to know all things?

What is omnipresence?

Kabieosi:
@rationalmind

Please reply to https://www.nairaland.com/1478133/doesnt-god-not-know-those/1#18931509

I don't know what's happening to the link. Its not leaving d same place. It loads n brings me back to this same place

Image123:

What exactly is the concept of omniscience(your concept and the Bible's concept). How do we reconcile omniscience with free will?

Ominiscience to me is the ability to know all things. As far as I'm concerned, ominiscience n freewill cannot be reconciled with eachother.

Bélla3: Double post

please, what is double post?
I often see this.

Kabieosi:



@nwuyag

rationalmind will lull you into a false sense of security if you along with him subscribe to making out punishment to be same as consequence

Please reply to https://www.nairaland.com/1478133/doesnt-god-not-know-those/1#18931509

# you haven't changed it yet ooo
- "tnx for the correction.. I ve changed it." - nwuyag

What is there to reply? What has my personal details gotten to do with the question?

doubleDx:

Being omniscience doesn't mean he would make/coerce a choice on you, he created you in his image (with the ability to do good & evil); He however warned that you shouldn't do evil to avoid destruction, but you are here arguing with the words of your creator and also calling his righteous judgement evil? Is it evil/unrighteous for a judge to pass the death penalty on a murderer? So you shouldn't see God's righteous judgement of paying you according to your works as evil! If he decides for you then free will will be invalid...!

Does the judge have the power to not create the murderer? Does the judge know beforehand he is going to commit the crime? Pls these answers should be given to your christian brothers. NOt us.

Bélla3: Op, this question will be the begining of your many questions to come. So if you know you're not prepared for the answer you'll get, stop asking!

Why not tell your christian brothers to at least give sensible answers.

Image123:

What is omnipresence?

Omnipresence is the ability to be in all places at all times

Kabieosi:

@Image123

Don't indulge him that way or give in to pressure

God Knows Everything

For the director of music. A psalm of David.

1 Lord, you have examined me
and know all about me.
2 You know when I sit down and when I get up.
You know my thoughts before I think them.
3 You know where I go and where I lie down.
You know everything I do.
4 Lord, even before I say a word,
you already know it.
5 You are all around me—in front and in back—
and have put your hand on me.
6 Your knowledge is amazing to me;
it is more than I can understand.
7 Where can I go to get away from your Spirit?
Where can I run from you?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there.
If I lie down in the grave, you are there.
9 If I rise with the sun in the east
and settle in the west beyond the sea,
10 even there you would guide me.
With your right hand you would hold me.
11 I could say, “The darkness will hide me.
Let the light around me turn into night.”
12 But even the darkness is not dark to you.
The night is as light as the day;
darkness and light are the same to you.
13 You made my whole being;
you formed me in my mother’s body.
14 I praise you because you made me in an amazing and wonderful way.
What you have done is wonderful.
I know this very well.
15 You saw my bones being formed
as I took shape in my mother’s body.
When I was put together there,
16 you saw my body as it was formed.
All the days planned for me
were written in your book
before I was one day old.
17 God, your thoughts are precious to me.
They are so many!
18 If I could count them,
they would be more than all the grains of sand.
When I wake up,
I am still with you.
19 God, I wish you would kill the wicked!
Get away from me, you murderers!
20 They say evil things about you.
Your enemies use your name thoughtlessly.
21 Lord, I hate those who hate you;
I hate those who rise up against you.
22 I feel only hate for them;
they are my enemies.
23 God, examine me and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any bad thing in me.
Lead me on the road to everlasting life.
- Psalm 139 New Century Version (NCV)

is this verse applicable to all circumstances or is it about david alone?
My issue right now with xtian interpretation of the bible is that you don't know if something should be taken objectively or as the whole context. The bible is now interpreted as to how it makes sense to the ear or as to what is an existing fact even if it means looking for a verse somewherelse to fit in an explanation. Its why I asked the quesation.

Image123:

You're bein unfair in the sense that your context of omniscience(or anything OMNI if i may so say) does not align with the Bible's context and concept. i doubt that the Bible states that God knows everything BTW. i'm open to learning though.

You ve not given a good reason to call me unfair.
There is only one meaning of omniscience and its what is in the dictionary. Afterall, other english words in the bible are also interpreted with dictionary definitions. There is only one definition.

rationalmind:

What is there to reply? What has my personal details gotten to do with the question?

@rationalmind

Be at ease,

giving gynecologist, policeman, milkman, accountant, programmer, taxi driver, studying banking, studying computer science etc etc should suffice

but never mind I've strucked you off the list

rationalmind:

Omnipresence is the ability to be in all places at all times

Good.
Do you think God is in your laptop or in your pocket?

rationalmind:

Ominiscience to me is the ability to know all things. As far as I'm concerned, ominiscience n freewill cannot be reconciled with eachother.

That's because you probably have a wrong context of at least one of the two.

nwuyag:
You ve not given a good reason to call me unfair.
There is only one meaning of omniscience and its what is in the dictionary. Afterall, other english words in the bible are also interpreted with dictionary definitions. There is only one definition.

There seems to be more than one concept and context. BTW, only God is said to be OMNI so the bible context should take precedence.

Kabieosi:

@rationalmind

Be at ease,

giving gynecologist, policeman, milkman, accountant, programmer, taxi driver, studying banking, studying computer science etc etc should suffice

but never mind I've strucked you off the list

Anyway, I'm studying Computer Engineering n in my finals.

Image123:
Good.
Do you think God is in your laptop or in your pocket?

No he's not. He doesn't exist. He is no where. He isn't omniscient neither is he omnipresent.

Image123:

That's because you probably have a wrong context of at least one of the two.

Why not tell us your context of the two

rationalmind:

Anyway, I'm studying Computer Engineering n in my finals.

@rationalmind

Thanks,

but that's if you're honest about that and not trying to throw me off, as I had you down for something else

Well, this is cool and useful info (i.e. Computer Engineering)

We should be able to some degrees relate or make connection(s) between ourselves (i.e. you and I)

Any hands-on scripting languages or programming background yet? (i.e. for real rather than theory)

Kabieosi:

@rationalmind

Thanks,

but that's if you're honest about that and not trying to throw me off, as I had you down for something else


Well, this is cool and useful info (i.e. Computer Engineering)

We should be able to some degrees relate or make connection(s) between ourselves (i.e. you and I)

Any hands-on scripting languages or programming background yet? (i.e. for real rather than theory)

There is absolutely no reason for me to lie about that.

Yea, was trying to learn perl on my own recently but stopped along the line. Didn't really do much of programming in school.( Just C n Assembly language)

It's funny how many professed Christians who sincerely believe they know everything keep on perambulating about the question. A very simple question, I must say but it smacks at the very root of religions and atheism. While I do not profess to know it all, I believe I can air my opinion in this case.

Fact 1: Man has Freewill. Depending on his choice of action, he is subject to the consequences, whether pleasurable or not. The World rests on a system of laws that always make it so. That's just the way it is. The concepts of good and evil are relative. In the universal sense, it is just action and reaction. Only man ascribes what we refer as good or otherwise to it.

Fact 2: God is Omniscient. Omniscience does not mean all-knowing as it is conventionally believed. So, God does not know, as a matter of certainty if you will go to hell or not. By Omniscience, it means no matter what develops out of Creation, no matter of choice you make as an individual, it has already been anticipated and a provision has been designed for it. So, Omniscience of God lies in his providence in all known and unknown, all existent and non existent probability. He has made provisions for that. It is His Creation, so He knows all possibilities. BUT, the exact choice that a man follows, is solely dependent on himself and God does not know what it will be and, in any case, He has also made provision for that.

The implication of this is that, God is impersonal. He doesn't disturb himself with your individual choices, failures, beliefs etc. The system of laws He design for Creation takes care of all that to the finest detail.

Before you ask, remember that all human knowledge or inventions cannot account for 0.1% of the possibilities inherent in Creation Itself, as designed by God. All these possibilities are known to Him alone and He has made provision should any case, mankind in general or man as an individual, tour the path of any.

GOD ALONE IS WISE.

Thanks.....never meant it to be a long post. Sorry.

rationalmind:

There is absolutely no reason for me to lie about that.

Yea, was trying to learn perl on my own recently but stopped along the line.

Didn't really do much of programming in school.( Just C n Assembly language)

@rationalmind

Hmm, so you're saying you've had past live coding experience(s) of some sort. Yeah?

So do you have a fair knowledge and understanding of the below? (i.e. mentioning a few list)

- Creating and/or initializing variables or constants
- Variable scopes
- OOP - objects, functions, methods, properties, defining parameters, passing arguments,
- built in or custom functions
- expressions, statements, comparison operators, events and event handlers

Kabieosi:

@rationalmind

Hmm, so you're saying you've had past live coding experience(s) of some sort. Yeah?

So do you have a fair knowledge and understanding of the below? (i.e. mentioning a few list)

- Creating and/or initializing variables or constants
- Variable scopes
- OOP - objects, functions, methods, properties, defining parameters, passing arguments,
- built in or custom functions
- expressions, statements, comparison operators, events and event handlers

Yea I do. But just a fair knowledge as u said. Nothing above is strange though I'm not so grounded when it comes to using them. Remb I told u I stopped halfway.