assuming he were guilty as accused.

Assuming God existed and the criteria for him to be God were not met by Him (according to
some group of know alls - atheists etc )
The accusers of God would still be shooting themselves in the foot trying to prove him
ineligibile for HIS TITLE.
In the Bible, the accusers of Jesus, the religious authority (self entitled) were often
left dumb founded whenever they tried to wrestle with him with their wisdom.
With the card carrying flaming anti-God group, the logic isnt even far fetched to
throw them all into a ditch which they're blind to yet walking into.
For example.
I read in the papers the other day, of the rise in the rate of extra judicial killings in kwara state.
Many supposedly kidnappers especially were dealt burnt alive by angry mobs.
some cultists who went to have a night meeting met their demise when they were returning
because the local vigilantes suspected them to be armed robbers.
The misjudgement is lamentable but the motive behind the jungle justice is irreligious.
The mob were probably not members of the same religious group yet they unanimously
agreed , not through a process of cold calculated logicising, that certain things are
evil and they spurred by anger (they didnt put up the anger or fake it) , descended
on the culprits.
They're anger was satiated after justice had been met.
This lets us know a lot about the composition of the human being.
Anger is a burning craving in human society.And if aggravated enough and they have the means
man as a group will exact justice with speediness instead of waiting for some more formal
logical emotionally controlled artificial process aka the "civilized way".
If man,as a group, cannot extract justice cuz he is over powered, out numbered,e.g in the case of
a military regime, he'll put on an outer show of submission but secretly he'll be craving for justice
. like a thirsty man . in iraq, out of fear the populace were totally subdued so they put up
double behaviour to save their lives.
when Abacha was in power it was the same thing, smiling outwardly but weeping inwardly desiring justice.
This also shows that Anger is an accelerator a fuel for spurring the quick dispensation of brutal justice
which is needed to purge an evil out of its place. so anger , is good and essential like hot burning antiseptic is needed to cleanse a wound of bacteria/germs.
So back to the God in the Dock stand situation,
Imagine God is sorrounded by a pack of wolves , like Jesus was sorrounded by a heaving pack of pharisees, all it would take to uphold God's justice for the hot bowl of punishment He's going to
pour out on those who've resisted His will, will be our history.
Have you ever gotten angry before?
Did you ever burn with anger for a perceived wrong?
Did you ever exact speedy justice - by use of force of brawns or force of many (group of people)
Did you ever feel sated and satisfied when perceived evil was punished?
Did you feel you were right and justified for bursting out in anger?
Then if you being human , and having so short a life span and warped perspective relative to
an eternal being who saw it all and still allowed you get away with your actions,
felt just in ur anger and exaction of justice, God would be even more justified
. His anger has been brewing for years!!! - he's been accumulating it ,
and He's been pleading with the world to repent and turn away,
He's warned the world about His wrath,
He's warned them about the outcome and consequence of HIS WRATH,
He's shown and said that He doesnt circumvent HIS OWN decrees unlike men but rather
legally satisfied them, e.g He sent Jesus to die for man
He didnt use his sovereignty as God to over ride things but made Jesus pay the full brutal price
,get beaten beyond recognition till his skin hung like strips of rangs from his Body,
bearing the full wrath of God that should have been visited on man,
proving that even God is bound by HIS spoken word!!.
Then , on the dock before HIS accuser, he'll have all justification to visit with SPEEDY
ANGER HIS WRATH on the stubborn hold outs who defy and continue to defy his HOLY STANDARDS!!

GOD'S accuser will be dumbfounded , check mated , non plussed , mouth agape that a fly can
buzz in an out, just as it was with the pharisees and Jesus' accusers in the Bible.

Your god has serious anger management issues. He needs to relax, maybe take a vacation.

Oh please,
How many people do you know or have you see who doubt the existence of the sun, or oxygen or gravity.
Even the blind, deaf and dumb bear witness tot the self evident sun, oxygen and gravity.

If your god was self-evident, we would not be having this discussion.

So the fairy tale xter yahweh is as petty and irrational as an angry, human mob. Also, he's subject to laws, eg the laws of reason, and by extension the subjectivity of morality.

Actually, I don't think you'll find many atheists (actually all non-abrahamics) that will disagree. In fact, I think you're well on the path non-theism, or at least moving away from xtianity. Well done. At least I hope so, else you'd qualify as a sociopath if you consider his actions as 'good'

wiegraf: So the fairy tale xter yahweh is as petty and irrational as an angry, human mob. Also, he's subject to laws, eg the laws of reason, and by extension the subjectivity of morality.

Actually, I don't think you'll find many atheists (actually all non-abrahamics) that will disagree. In fact, I think you're well on the path non-theism, or at least moving away from xtianity. Well done. At least I hope so, else you'd qualify as a sociopath if you consider his actions as 'good'

if i were moving away, I wouldnt b writing this christian apologetic.
You missed my point by a continent-wide margin.

kambo:

if i were moving away, I wouldnt b writing this christian apologetic.
You missed my point by a continent-wide margin.

Kayi, dealing with una.... You missed the point. So you agree the xter you describe behaves like an angry mob, yes or no?

wiegraf:

Kayi, dealing with una.... You missed the point. So you agree the xter you describe behaves like an angry mob, yes or no?

the angry mob illustration is used to used to make my point.
Atheists accuse G.o.d off being irascible, edgy,quick to lash out and sadistic for creating hell.
Yet , we justify man (acting in a mob) dispensing justice (though extra judicial) with fury and anger,
anger is d serum for the transport of d bitter justice.
I tied this principle to God who does same , dispense justice With ANGER. I showed how God is self controlled - his anger ripens with time.
In the pre-new testament era this wasnt always so - but thats talk 4 anoda day.
Concluding, with the fact tht if we excuse man (the mob in this case),
or the judge in a civil situation,
we i.e u sceptics invariably checkmate urself AND THIS WILL B USED AGAINST YOU wen u try to accuse ALMIGHTY! Like jesus checkmated the hounding pharisees ,saduccees again and again and again.
When you try to argue with God ,
its like playg ur best game of chess with only piece - ur king- against an infinite grand master!

kambo:
the angry mob illustration is used to used to make my point.
Atheists accuse G.o.d off being irascible, edgy,quick to lash out and sadistic for creating hell.
Yet , we justify man (acting in a mob) dispensing justice (though extra judicial) with fury and anger,
anger is d serum for the transport of d bitter justice.
I tied this principle to God who does same , dispense justice With ANGER. I showed how God is self controlled - his anger ripens with time.
In the pre-new testament era this wasnt always so - but thats talk 4 anoda day.
Concluding, with the fact tht if we excuse man (the mob in this case),
or the judge in a civil situation,
we i.e u sceptics invariably checkmate urself AND THIS WILL B USED AGAINST YOU wen u try to accuse ALMIGHTY! Like jesus checkmated the hounding pharisees ,saduccees again and again and again.
When you try to argue with God ,
its like playg ur best game of chess with only piece - ur king- against an infinite grand master!

Is this a yes or a no?


Let me give you a little leeway. Did you just compare your gods anger to that of angry mob, yes, or no?

Still here. If dont get the gist ignore it - read and pass.
Rehash.
God has and displays anger.
Man has and displays anger.
E.g an angry mob.
E.g a judge (rarely manifests)
anger is essential 4 dispensing justice. Like a smile expresses goodwill humor levity.
But God is criticized 4 dispensing justice or anger
yet at d same time God critics empathize with man's display of burning anger , swift uncomfortable justice etc.
... U can deduce the rest from here.
Catch my drift?
I likened God to man (not a mob)
i used d mob as an example of man in anger dispensing justice .
I cud hav used a parent , a jealous lover, etc.
The issue is : an emotion+a reaction (based on tht emotion):justice
and its implications wen critiquing God- automatic condemnation to d critique !

kambo:
assuming he were guilty as accused.

Assuming God existed and the criteria for him to be God were not met by Him (according to
some group of know alls - atheists etc )
The accusers of God would still be shooting themselves in the foot trying to prove him
ineligibile for HIS TITLE.
In the Bible, the accusers of Jesus, the religious authority (self entitled) were often
left dumb founded whenever they tried to wrestle with him with their wisdom.
With the card carrying flaming anti-God group, the logic isnt even far fetched to
throw them all into a ditch which they're blind to yet walking into.
For example.
I read in the papers the other day, of the rise in the rate of extra judicial killings in kwara state.
Many supposedly kidnappers especially were dealt burnt alive by angry mobs.
some cultists who went to have a night meeting met their demise when they were returning
because the local vigilantes suspected them to be armed robbers.
The misjudgement is lamentable but the motive behind the jungle justice is irreligious.
The mob were probably not members of the same religious group yet they unanimously
agreed , not through a process of cold calculated logicising, that certain things are
evil and they spurred by anger (they didnt put up the anger or fake it) , descended
on the culprits.
They're anger was satiated after justice had been met.
This lets us know a lot about the composition of the human being.
Anger is a burning craving in human society.And if aggravated enough and they have the means
man as a group will exact justice with speediness instead of waiting for some more formal
logical emotionally controlled artificial process aka the "civilized way".
If man,as a group, cannot extract justice cuz he is over powered, out numbered,e.g in the case of
a military regime, he'll put on an outer show of submission but secretly he'll be craving for justice
. like a thirsty man . in iraq, out of fear the populace were totally subdued so they put up
double behaviour to save their lives.
when Abacha was in power it was the same thing, smiling outwardly but weeping inwardly desiring justice.
This also shows that Anger is an accelerator a fuel for spurring the quick dispensation of brutal justice
which is needed to purge an evil out of its place. so anger , is good and essential like hot burning antiseptic is needed to cleanse a wound of bacteria/germs.
So back to the God in the Dock stand situation,
Imagine God is sorrounded by a pack of wolves , like Jesus was sorrounded by a heaving pack of pharisees, all it would take to uphold God's justice for the hot bowl of punishment He's going to
pour out on those who've resisted His will, will be our history.
Have you ever gotten angry before?
Did you ever burn with anger for a perceived wrong?
Did you ever exact speedy justice - by use of force of brawns or force of many (group of people)
Did you ever feel sated and satisfied when perceived evil was punished?
Did you feel you were right and justified for bursting out in anger?
Then if you being human , and having so short a life span and warped perspective relative to
an eternal being who saw it all and still allowed you get away with your actions,
felt just in ur anger and exaction of justice, God would be even more justified
. His anger has been brewing for years!!! - he's been accumulating it ,
and He's been pleading with the world to repent and turn away,
He's warned the world about His wrath,
He's warned them about the outcome and consequence of HIS WRATH,
He's shown and said that He doesnt circumvent HIS OWN decrees unlike men but rather
legally satisfied them, e.g He sent Jesus to die for man
He didnt use his sovereignty as God to over ride things but made Jesus pay the full brutal price
,get beaten beyond recognition till his skin hung like strips of rangs from his Body,
bearing the full wrath of God that should have been visited on man,
proving that even God is bound by HIS spoken word!!.
Then , on the dock before HIS accuser, he'll have all justification to visit with SPEEDY
ANGER HIS WRATH on the stubborn hold outs who defy and continue to defy his HOLY STANDARDS!!

GOD'S accuser will be dumbfounded , check mated , non plussed , mouth agape that a fly can
buzz in an out, just as it was with the pharisees and Jesus' accusers in the Bible.

God could have been alone,chilling or doing whatever he was doing before he created man.triillions of years of happiness ruined because he wanted worshipers.

How can he know man will cause him grief an still create him?

kambo:
the angry mob illustration is used to used to make my point.
Atheists accuse G.o.d off being irascible, edgy,quick to lash out and sadistic for creating hell.
Yet , we justify man (acting in a mob) dispensing justice (though extra judicial) with fury and anger,
anger is d serum for the transport of d bitter justice.
I tied this principle to God who does same , dispense justice With ANGER. I showed how God is self controlled - his anger ripens with time.
In the pre-new testament era this wasnt always so - but thats talk 4 anoda day.
Concluding, with the fact tht if we excuse man (the mob in this case),
or the judge in a civil situation,
we i.e u sceptics invariably checkmate urself AND THIS WILL B USED AGAINST YOU wen u try to accuse ALMIGHTY! Like jesus checkmated the hounding pharisees ,saduccees again and again and again.
When you try to argue with God ,
its like playg ur best game of chess with only piece - ur king- against an infinite grand master!

Mob action or an angry judge is inexcusable.

But you can appeal a Judge's decision can the same be said about God?

GeneralShepherd:

Mob action or an angry judge is inexcusable.

But you can appeal a Judge's decision can the same be said about God?

ur rationalizing. Which is out of context here.
Judgement is dispensed with and in anger- like pleasure is expressed with a smile. That is the purpose 4 d emotion,inter alia.
Justice is a moral debt tht must b paid and man understands this at a subconscious level thts y mob's lynching a theif arent operating on cold calculated logic.
Theyre operating at a more fundamental universal level.
A judge has his mind trained to rationalise ,so he can thru education place a veneer btw his mind and his root feelings,but this is artificial because in some cases the severity and gruesomeness of the act is so great tht - raw anger - manifests. Also people clamour for speedy justice.
By this actions which we perform ... (see my previous posts for conclusion).


Ur other questions about appeal etc are out of context and distortive.

kambo:

ur rationalizing. Which is out of context here.
Judgement is dispensed with and in anger- like pleasure is expressed with a smile. That is the purpose 4 d emotion,inter alia.
Justice is a moral debt tht must b paid and man understands this at a subconscious level thts y mob's lynching a theif arent operating on cold calculated logic.
Theyre operating at a more fundamental universal level.
A judge has his mind trained to rationalise ,so he can thru education place a veneer btw his mind and his root feelings,but this is artificial because in some cases the severity and gruesomeness of the act is so great tht - raw anger - manifests. Also people clamour for speedy justice.
By this actions which we perform ... (see my previous posts for conclusion).


Ur other questions about appeal etc are out of context and distortive.

Oga justice is not about anger and revenge,please...

Why do you think mob action is considered barbaric in civilised climes?

Why do you think speedy justice is denied most times?

Its better to set 10,000 guilty men free than to kill one innocent man.
But God can kill babies because their fathers offended him. Wow

GeneralShepherd:

Oga justice is not about anger and revenge,please...

Why do you think mob action is considered barbaric in civilised climes?

Why do you think speedy justice is denied most times?

Its better to set 10,000 guilty men free than to kill one innocent man.
But God can kill babies because their fathers offended him. Wow

oga, stressing a point with som1 who doesnt understands d context u'r coming from is a futile exercise.
Read my previous posts b4 shooting. Ur knee jerks reaction are shameful.
I used 'mob' as an example of human anger and justice.
That the barbarity of mob action is frowned at suddenly adds wat to d point i'm making?
Supposing, ur boss issued a circular to all employees and an employee repeatedly defied his order , he got angry, and sacked all of them!? -
or supposing u left for wrk and left ur newly married wife to tend d house one day u returned earlier than usual to find her in bed with anoda man far gone in d act? Wat will b ur initial reaction?
Wat will b ur burning desire?
Oh.
U wont feel any anger. You wont feel hurt. You wont desire justice .
Ur rationality will automatically analyse the situation and you'll REASON things out with the errant employees and unfaithful wife!
Wat if ur daughter had a fever and u took her to get take an injection @ the nearest hospital. The careless nurse injects her with unsterilized needle givimg her HIV .
Wat will most highly educated atheists like urself initially do?
Will you feel an outburst of anger and desire justice ?
Wat u call civilized is being trained to suppress an emotion . The outward calmness of the aggrieved is a learned artificial behaviour.
In all these instances they'll b a desire 4 justice moreso if the wrong is perpetrated often.

If d point is above ur head ignore - instead of tryng to put words in my mouth.

kambo: Still here. If dont get the gist ignore it - read and pass.
Rehash.
God has and displays anger.
Man has and displays anger.
E.g an angry mob.
E.g a judge (rarely manifests)
anger is essential 4 dispensing justice. Like a smile expresses goodwill humor levity.
But God is criticized 4 dispensing justice or anger
yet at d same time God critics empathize with man's display of burning anger , swift uncomfortable justice etc.
... U can deduce the rest from here.
Catch my drift?
I likened God to man (not a mob)
i used d mob as an example of man in anger dispensing justice .
I cud hav used a parent , a jealous lover, etc.
The issue is : an emotion+a reaction (based on tht emotion):justice
and its implications wen critiquing God- automatic condemnation to d critique !

So omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent yahweh dispenses anger like us fallible humans. Eg, like a spurned lover, angry mob, etc? All that violence in the old testament is a result of an omnixx.x having tantrums?

Here's my (obvious) point. Do you believe mob lynchings and jealous spouses killing each other is justified? That's what you just said yahweh does. Usually people who do this we call monsters. You just called yahweh a monster.

Usually, it's atheists that call yahweh a monster, not you guys, see? So you're already talking like us, soon you'll be fully joining our ranks.

Unless, of course, you have no problems with all those atrocities yahweh is guilty of. All those inexcusable actions you somehow try to justify with 'he was angry'. Hitler was an angry dude who committed genocide, do you put him on a pedestal as well?

Now, if you really don't have an issue with yahwehs antics then you're very likely a sociopath with zero empathy.

So, is that clear now?

Atheists aren't know-alls. They simply don't see reason to accept deity/deities as explanation for life. The same way many people are wrt former deities believed in eg Zeus.

A shout out to Uyi; it's been a long time coming.

kambo:

oga, stressing a point with som1 who doesnt understands d context u'r coming from is a futile exercise.
Read my previous posts b4 shooting. Ur knee jerks reaction are shameful.
I used 'mob' as an example of human anger and justice.
That the barbarity of mob action is frowned at suddenly adds wat to d point i'm making?
Supposing, ur boss issued a circular to all employees and an employee repeatedly defied his order , he got angry, and sacked all of them!? -
or supposing u left for wrk and left ur newly married wife to tend d house one day u returned earlier than usual to find her in bed with anoda man far gone in d act? Wat will b ur initial reaction?
Wat will b ur burning desire?
Oh.
U wont feel any anger. You wont feel hurt. You wont desire justice .
Ur rationality will automatically analyse the situation and you'll REASON things out with the errant employees and unfaithful wife!
Wat if ur daughter had a fever and u took her to get take an injection @ the nearest hospital. The careless nurse injects her with unsterilized needle givimg her HIV .
Wat will most highly educated atheists like urself initially do?
Will you feel an outburst of anger and desire justice ?
Wat u call civilized is being trained to suppress an emotion . The outward calmness of the aggrieved is a learned artificial behaviour.
In all these instances they'll b a desire 4 justice moreso if the wrong is perpetrated often.

If d point is above ur head ignore - instead of tryng to put words in my mouth.

Civilisation like you rightly said is the act of controlling your emotions and not reacting like an animal,this is very correct.

So If the God you serve(I can't say you speak for christians) does not have self control,why do you look up to Him/Her/It for moral guidance? It beats my imagination,why I should worship an uncivilised God,or perhaps God is just a concept that lays credence to the fact that gods may have been developed by uncivilised men to make rational sense of their world?

You have no case, Justice and anger are not compatible at all.
Let's see the definition of anger

Anger:it is an emotion related to one's psychological interpretation of having been offended, wronged, or denied and a tendency to react through retaliation(wikipedia)

Justice:Justice is a concept of moral rightness based on ethics, rationality, law, natural law, religion, equity and fairness, as well as the administration of the law, taking into account the inalienable and inborn rights of all human beings and citizens, the right of all people and individuals to equal protection before the law of their civil rights, without discrimination on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, color, ethnicity, religion, disability, age, or other characteristics, and is further regarded as being inclusive of social justice(wikipedia)

Justice from the above definition is no where based on anger,because anger causes one to loose objectivity.

So justifying your God with anger,makes him human.
Anyway how can I get angry if I already knew what you would do before you were even born?

It is either I didn't know,or I am a drama-king.

aManFromMars: A shout out to Uyi; it's been a long time coming.

That one needs a god methinks. At best some sort of theist. At least no more crazy talk.

It has been a long 7 stages of grief though to bury yahweh