Zhul-fiqar:


Yes for once i do agree with you.al-Baqir has bitten more than he can chew because he is dealing with people who justify and feel good about their own beliefs by denying beliefs of others through unfounded claims and wet-dreams.

Betathing is talking about taqiyyah,yet Taqiyyah is found in the Quran.

He is talking about Shia having belief that the Quran have been altered/distorted (tahreef),yet the very Sunni books he is defending (like bukhari and muslim) contain hadiths that state the Quran has been altered.yet because he is programmed to believe it is only the Shia that hold such belief,he disregards the skeletons in his own cupboard.even when the Shia in every home have the same Quran (even ones printed in majority Sunni countries) and the Shia deny tahreef,the likes of Betathing would insist the Shia believe in tahreef.ask him for proof,he would quote hadiths from Shia books that the Shia themselves reject.and ironically when the Shia bring hadiths from his "sahih" about Aisha narrating that a verse of the Quran,known as the "Verse of Stoning",was allegedly lost when a goat chewed it,he would pretend ignorance.our al-kafi,biharul-anwar,wasael al-shia,etc are not tagged by the Shia with the "sahih" label as sunnis have their hadith books.the Shia insist that only the Holy Quran is "sahih".when you tag a book as "sahih" (authentic/unadulterated),you must accept everything in it.based on that and since hadiths supporting tahreef are found in bukhari and muslim,it is 100% honest to say sunnis believe in tahreef.he will still disagree,but wants us to believe it is the Shia misusing taqiyyah and not his likes.amazing nonsense! Do you believe your books are "sahih" or not? Do you believe in tahreef or not? Its either your books are not "sahih" as the OP has been preaching,or if you say they are then you believe in tahreef because there are reports therein supporting tahreef.choose!

Ma sha Allah that's a very good point there brother.
I remember I followed a debate between an arrogant so-called salafi scholar who claimed Shia doesn't have an Hafizul Qur'an. Lol. Thereby a 5year Old boy was introduced to him who did not only learn Qur'an by heart but also understand all the rules guiding recitation of the Qur'an.

We simply ask them to present to us that so-called "Shi'a Qur'an"; they say if we can hide our Imam, how can a book be difficult to hide. Indeed we are great "hiders". Lol.

May Allah liberate us from ignorance and dogmatism.

Reply to The debate: www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2013/04/debate-who-killed-imam-hussain-as_29.html?m=1

usermane: Peace be upon you.
The fact is, every sect have their own hadiths books. The only way to resolve the sect issue is for everyone to return to the Qur'an, the only Book, the Prophet swore to have preached with(Qur'an 6:19). The earliest hadith book came 200+ years after the messenger 's death. This is serious joke! A book meant to explain the Qur'an only surface nearly 2 centuries post prophet 's death? The messenger of God was an intelligent man. He knew people would fabricate teachings in his name after his departure(Qur'an 6:112) and therefore banned the writting of hadith, fully aware that the Qur'an is sufficient for us(25:31). Infact, that is the only thing he knew of the future. Abubakar, Umar, Uthman, Ali who muslims revere so much as role models did not record any hadiths.
The messenger wount complain that his hadith or sunnah has been deserted like an abudawood hadith state. The prophet 's only complain on Judgement day will be that Qur'an has been deserted(Qur'an 25:30). This is exactly what the muslims did right after his death, passing it down to us.

Once a non muslim debated with me over Islam permitting sex slaves. He tried to defend this claim by citing various hadiths that authorize muslims to own sex slave along with their wives. I insisted that hadith books have nothing to do with Islam. Then he started speaking like sunnis and shiites, he said i need hadiths to understand Qur'an, quoting the common poorly interpreted verses, like "obey the messenger" or "the messenger is an excellent example for mankind". It was only till i proved to him with even hadiths,common sense and Qur'an verses that hadiths books were never authorised by God that he finally gave up.

I thank God recently, no more will i accept pope,reverend,mullah or sheikh between me and God, no more will i accept messengers between me and God. All messengers of God came to eliminate the clergymen. They didn't come to be intermediary between man and God. They lived according to the complete, fully detailed and self explained scripture they delivered without adding to or taking away anything from the Book.

Peace be upon you too,
Truly each sect in Islam has its own books of hadith but all sects agreed on MANY hadith in their respective books.

RETURNING TO QUR'AN: no sect in Islam has ever left Qur'an; the only problem here is different understanding and interpretations by each sect.

QUR'AN 6 vs 19: AGREED. Here not only muslims, if only all mankind could unify itself under one umbrella of "we are all from the same maker" earth would have been a better place to live.

FOR THE MUSLIM
Had it been we can unite on what we universally agreed on and try to avoid, in a mixed gathering, what we differ, Muslim would have been a one solid rock. But there are some hypocrites within who incite hatred of one against other thereby we couldn't tolerate each other. This has its source immediately after the demise of the holy prophet (saws). Talk about humanism (insaniyyah)!

INTERPRETATION oF QUR'AN
Apparently 'hadith' is not interpretation of the Qur'an rather a source of additional info for subjects in the Qur'an. The best way to interpret Qur'an is using Qur'an for Qur'an.
Tafsir of the Qur'an has been in existence and as old as the Qur'an itself. The holy prophet (saws) interpreted many verses in his saying and practices verbally. That was what lead Ali, the gate to prophet's knowledge, to 'compiled' a Qur'an after the death of Rasul WITH TAFSIR (interpretation) and TA'WIL (esoteric meaning) of each verse as stated by his master (saws). Unfortunately, this was rejected from him by the first Khalifa despite knowing the statement of Rasul:

"Ali is with the Qur'an and Qur'an is with Ali..."

TODAY!
Today many sect rely on books of hadith(narrated by every tom, dick and harry companion among whom were hypocrites not even known by the prophet) to interpret Qur'an. How can something that is not 100% pure interpret something that is ENTIRELY pure? Then we are bond to have errors in interpretations. Not knowing Qur'an is a guide to recognize and separate true hadith from false.

On the other hands, there are other groups who rely on Qur'an to interpret itself (example is Tafsir al-Mizan etc) based on the instruction of the prophet: "I left with you two weighty things if you adhere with them, you will never separate; book of God (Qur'an) and ahl al-bayt..." In fact the prophet and his ahl al-bayt are refer to as "those grounded with knowledge" in the interpretation of the Qur'an aside Allah (Q. 3 vs 7). And this groups only used hadith as an additional information.

Everyone is free to chose what he wish; unto Allah is our return!

Yes he knew the 'devil and enemy (Q6 vs 112)" and fought them until Allah gave him victory over them. But the Munafiq (hypocrites) remained who inflicted problem from within. They dare not raised their shameful head during the blessed time of the prophet and he (saws) before he died said: "of whomsoever I am his master, Ali is his master..." We are to follow Ali because he was a self of the prophet (Qur'an) thereby, prophet said: "Hypocrite is recognize by his hatred of Ali while a Mu'min is known by his love for Ali".

As I said earlier the prophet never banned the writing of his saying. In fact, he needed a one house and one source; he entrusted the task of his knowledge unto Ali, in writing , memorization and in practice. He (saws) said: "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate...NOBODY comes to the city except through the gate"

He further said: "The similitude of my ahl al-bayt (of whom Ali is the head) is that of Noah's ark; whoever embark it is saved; and whoever turn away from will perished" (amidst turbulent wave of division).

Here also we are free in our choice. Some go with Ali, some go with others they prefer. Unto Allah is our return on the day "when we shall be raised under our respective Imam(leader)"~Qur'an.

ALI RECORD!
I have proven to you previously how Ali recorded and transmitted his knowledge from one Imam to another Imam of the household of the prophet. Pls re-read my previous reply otherwise we start all over again.

Q25 vs 30: Abandoning Qur'an is not to follow its true meaning or interpret it errorouniously. That was the reason the prophet instructed us to follow his ahl al-bayt(one source) in the interpretation of the Qur'an. So it is not suprising seeing "desertion of the Qur'an" on the part of many because they have abandoned the "ahl al-bayt" whom the holy prophet (saws) paired with the Qur'an. Remember the prophet said "...I warned you concerning my ahl al-bayt" (repeated 3 times) after he said: "I left with you two weighty things if you adhere to them, you will never go astray; book of God and my ahl al-bayt..."

Lastly my dearest brother, the holy prophet (saws) is very much 'alive' with us in his hadith verified by the Qur'an. Abandoning his sayings (hadith) because of the excuse of corruptions in the books of hadith is like abandoning Qur'an with an excuse that there's no "signature" of God on each sura. Hasn't Qur'an challenge people to scrutinized any book who claimed to be from God? We can use this acid test for books of hadith: "whatever conform with the word of God, take it; and whatever deviate from it, reject it"~Imam Jafar as-sadiq (a.s).

I thank you sincerely for your time. May you be blessed.

Salam.

Al-Baqir:


Vedaxcool! In fact you are a good supporter club!
Your comment always keep me bemused.

Anyway the so-called issues raised (esp the hadith narrated in the posted video) have been answered. Hope you will read it with open heart. You can decided before you even read the reply to lock up your heart. You don't contest what you have no knowledge of. My advice is please go back to Madrasa and learn.

Salam.

oh thank you, as for going to madrasa and learning, sir after you!

Zhul-fiqar:


Ignorance is not good.the only thing left unanswered in Betathing's post is his propaganda video on Sayyid Murtaza Qazwini.

The hadith Sayyid Qazwini was quoting that the verse: "God favored Adam,the family of Noah,the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran over mankind",also included "family of Muhammad",is a hadith that is found (also) in Sunni books.this hadith has been refuted by the great Shia alim,Ayatollah Abu'l Kassim al-Khu'i,and proven to be weak.furthermore,the video Betathing presented of Sayyid Qazwini is doctored.Sayyid Qazwini does not believe the Quranic text has been distorted,but was merely quoting what is found in some Sunni reports.instead of showing us 1minute 28 seconds of his lecture,those Sunni (definitely wahhabi/salafist sunnis) should have provided the full lecture let us hear the statement in context.

I will present this 10 minute video to get more refutations to such claims by Salafist pseudo-scholar,Usthman al-Khamees:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=xXPA5bmKMMc

The real problem is in the Sunni "sahih" books because you have reports from people like Aisha,Umar and Abdullah Ibn Masood-upon whose shoulders the foundations of the Sunni sect lies-that the Holy Quran has suffered tahreef.these figures were among the Sahaba Sunnis do hold in high honor.

As for us,the words of the 12 holy Imams (as) of Prophet Muhammad's (s) Ahlul-Bayt (as) are decisive over whatever anyone says.Imam Ja'far as-Sadeq (as) said:

"'Test the various reports by the Book of God; whatever agrees with it take it,whatever disagrees with it reject it."'Take what is agreed upon (by scholars). Certainly the universally accepted should not be doubted.'"

The above is found in al-Kafi by al-Kulayni.al-Kulayni was a Shia hadith recorder/compiler (just like Bukhari and Muslim for Sunnis),and he considers the Quran (as per the saying of Imam Sadeq) to be the yardstick for separating truth from falsehood.

This is what we read in the Holy Quran:

“and most surely ” (41:41) it is a Mighty Book: (42) Falsehood shall not come to it from before it nor from behind it; a revelation from the Wise, the Praised One”, and “(15:9) Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian”.

What the classical Shia scholars of the highest prominence have said:

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

"Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he, who asserts that we say that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh Saduq, English version, p77.

1- It should be noted that Shaykh Saduq is the greatest scholar of Hadith among the Imami Shia and was given the name of Shaykh al-Muhaddithin (i.e., the most eminent of the scholars of Hadith). And since he wrote the above in a book with the name of "The beliefs of the Imami Shia," it is quite impossible that there could be any authentic Hadith in contrary to it.
It is noteworthy that Shaykh Saduq was one of the earliest Shia scholars.

2- Another prominent Shia scholar is Allama Muhammad Ridha Mudhaffar who wrote in his Shia Creed book that:

"We believe that the Holy Quran is revealed by Allah through the Holy Prophet of Islam dealing with every thing which is necessary for the guidance of mankind. It is an everlasting miracle of the Holy Prophet
the like of which can not be produced by human mind. It excels in its eloquence, clarity, truth and knowledge. This Divine Book has not been tampered with by any one. This Holy Book which we recite today is the same Holy Quran which was revealed to the Holy Prophet. Any one who
^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^
claims it to be otherwise is an evil-doer, a mere sophist, or else he is sadly mistaken. All of those who have this line of thinking have gone astray as Allah in Quran said: "Falsehood can not reach the Quran
from any direction (41:42)"

- Shi'i reference: The Beliefs of Shi'ite School, by Muhammad Ridha Mudhaffar, English version, pp 50-51

3-Sayyid al-Murtadha, another prominent Shi'ite Scholar said:

"... our certainty of the completeness of the Quran is like our certainty of the existence of countries or major events that are self evident. Motives and reasons for recording and guarding the Holy Quran
are numerous. Because the Quran is a miracle of the Prophethood and the source of Islamic Knowledge and religious rule, their concern with the Quran made the Muslim Scholars highly efficient concerning
grammar, its reading, and its verses."

4-With this various concern by the most eminent Shia scholars, there is no possibility that the Quran was added or deleted in some parts.

5-Besides what Allah mentioned in Quran about its protection, we can use our logic to derive the same result. Allah sent his last Messenger to show people (to the end of the time) His Right Path. Therefore if Allah does not preserve His message, He would be contradicting His own aim. Obviously, such negligence is evil according to reason. Thus, in essence, Allah preserves His message as He preserved Moses in the house of His Enemy,Pharaoh.

Conclusion:

Shia Muslims collectively believe that the Qur'an we have is free from all textual distortions. It's the same Qur'an God revealed upon Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his descendants). Yes, distortion was made in the arrangement of the verses as we all know that Q. 96 is the first chapter of Qur'an revealed and Q. 5:3 is the last verse revealed. Fabricated interpretation of Qur'an is also a kind of distortion but the letters in Qur'an are indeed the word of God. See this:

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/tahreef/shia-scholars-completeness-quran.html

why don't you just address betathings? @ bold you are simply hanging yourself again.

vedaxcool:

why don't you just address betathings? @ bold you are simply hanging yourself again.

If two muslims meet with their swords
Narrated Al-Hasan: (Al-Ahnaf said I went out carrying my arms during the nights of the affliction (i.e. the war between 'Ali and 'Aisha) and Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Apostle (i.e.,'Ali)." Abu Bakra said, "Allah's Apostle said, 'If two Muslims take out their swords to fight each other, then both of them will be from amongst the people of the Hell-Fire.' It was said to the Prophet, 'It is alright for the killer but what about the killed one?' He replied, 'The killed one had the intention to kill his opponent.'"(See Hadith No. 30, Vol. 1)

References:
• Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, #204, Book: Kitab al-Fitann; Page 1494, #7083 (Arabic version)

References:
• Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, #30, Book: Kitab al-Imann; Page 21, #31 (Arabic version)

Analysis
The above hadith refer to the battle of the camel, between Ali ibn Abi Abi Talib and Aisha bint Abu Bakr. It narrates that if two muslims fight each other, they both go to hell. It implies that if the fight is between oppressed Muslims and muslim oppressors, both are still punished by Allah. Therefore, Talha, al-Zubair, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Ammar ibn Yassir and all the others who fought the battles of Siffin and Camel will dwell in the hell-fire. Moreover, al-Hussein ibn Ali and al-Hassan will also be in the same situation since they fought Mua'awiah and his son Yazid.

Either, these two hadiths are not genuine, or the narrator is a liar! For one, it contradicts that Holy Quran which states:

Quran 49:9
"And if two parties of the believers quarrel, make peace between them; but if one of them acts wrongfully towards the other, fight that which acts wrongfully until it returns to Allah's command; then if it returns, make peace between them with justice and act equitably; surely Allah loves those who act equitably"

It clearly indicates that the rightful party of believers must fight the wrongful party of believers until the latter returns to the command of Allah. As far as the party of Ali, who was the legitimate caliph at that time, the Sunnis and the Twelvers Shiaa have authenticated the following hadiths

The virtues of Ali:
* Whoever I am his master, Ali is his master. O God! Love those who love him and be hostile to those who are hostile to him.

* He who loves me, must love Ali.

* The Prophet (PBUH) looked toward Ali, Hasan, Husain, and Fatimah (AS), and then said: "I am in war with those who will fight you, and in peace with those who are peaceful to you".

* Whoever loves Ali has loved me, and whoever hates Ali has hated me.

* No one but a believer would love Ali, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against Ali.

* Ali is with Quran, and Quran is with Ali.

Sometimes I wonder how a person as knowledgeable as you Al baqir can let yourself keep stumbling back into this potential mess of speaking ill of the companions of the prophet. These are people whom Allah might have forgiven for whatever errors they made. I see no logical reason to insinuate that Abubakr was a liar, even if you have such "evidences", he might have erred. It's interesting to note that when we muslims bicker about such harmful topics, our brothers of other faith that usually disturb this segment of nairaland leave us alone, almost as if saying their trouble isn't needed here siince we are already doing a good job at insulting ourselves. I would like to believe I am sunni, but it doesn't mean I can't learn from the immerse knowledge Shia muslims like you and Lagos Shia seem to possess, but for the sake of the day when you would stand to account, refrain from bad mouthing the sahaba,asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh

Akindarchi: Sometimes I wonder how a person as knowledgeable as you Al baqir can let yourself keep stumbling back into this potential mess of speaking ill of the companions of the prophet.

The intent of this thread is to expose that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim whom many muslims have elevated to the level of infallible Qur'an, are not 100% free from error. You can clearly see the contradiction in the concocted report of the saying of the prophet (peace be on him and his family) and the verse of the Qur'an about two group of muslims fighting.

You should by now know Albaqir is never of the idea that ALL the companions of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) were righteous servant of Allah.

Allah praised and blessed the righteous among them. These are the people who deserved to be praise, respect and bless. They sacrifice their lives for the growth and development of Islam.

Quran also talks a lot about the Munafiq and apostate among them. Allah warned about the 'hiding Munafiq' among the companions; and in turn the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) gave a standard to recognize them. Among those Munafiq were those whose planned to assassinate the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) failed! These were group who accused him of madness at his death-bed! These were group who oppressed his family after him! Etc. Allah cursed them in His book and the prophet (peace be on him and his family) foretold he will deny them on the day of judgment (sahih Bukhari and Muslim).
So how can you expect me to respect ALL the companions altogether (both the righteous and the Munafiq and the Apostate)?

'Say: "Not equal are things that are bad and things that are good, even though the abundance of the bad may dazzle thee, O ye that understand; that (so) ye may prosper."
~Maida:103

Akindarchi:
These are people whom Allah might have forgiven for whatever errors they made.

Perhaps you read another Quran. Allah is just in His judgment and promised He will not do an atom of injustice to any. He shall reward each according to his work. That is the spirit of the Quran.

Allah forgive errors, mistakes so long you do not commit it deliberately and intentionally; and He forgive sins ONLY when you repent and do not repeat same. That is the spirit of the Quran.

Akindarchi:
I see no logical reason to insinuate that Abubakr was a liar, even if you have such "evidences", he might have erred.

Kindly read properly. The narration is about Abu BAKRA not Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr died 28 -30years ago before the time of Battle of Jamal.

Akindarchi:
...but for the sake of the day when you would stand to account, refrain from bad mouthing the sahaba, asalam alaykum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuh

You are not being fair dear brother. When you say I bad mouth "sahaba", you make the whole world feel ALL sahaba of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family); while by Allah, I'm only at loggerhead with the Munafiq among them.

"Those who do not judge with the truth...Those who do not judge with what We have revealed to them; those are the zalimun

Wa alaykum salam.

Then I sincerely apologise for all the faults of mine in my posts, may Allah forgive me, I sincerely just thought to advise you, I do hope you were able to salvage at least some good from my post, and look past my errors. It's reassuring to see you replied my salam, so we are most likely on the same page. May we be reunited in jannah with the prophet and the sahaba

Akindarchi: Then I sincerely apologise for all the faults of mine in my posts, may Allah forgive me, I sincerely just thought to advise you, I do hope you were able to salvage at least some good from my post, and look past my errors. It's reassuring to see you replied my salam, so we are most likely on the same page. May we be reunited in jannah with the prophet and the sahaba

May Allah forgive our sins and wad-off our mistakes and inequalities. I apologize more dear brother and I say Ameen to your dua. May Allah count us among the righteous ones.

Shukran dear brother.

Salam alaykum wa rahmatullah.

Wa Alaykum Salam Warahmahtullahi Wabarakatuh

Akindarchi: Wa Alaykum Salam Warahmahtullahi Wabarakatuh

I'd like to get your e-mail. There is a research project I wish to invite you into. You can send your e-mail address through mine: ...
Thanks.

'Allamah al-Albani writes:

"But, whoever is in doubt concerning the verdicts I have given concerning some hadith (in sahih al-Bukhari), let him refer to Fath al-Bari, and he will find there lots and lots of things (in sahih al-Bukhari) which have been CRITICIZED by al-Hafiz Ahmad b. Hajar al-Asqalani, who is rightly named the Amir al-Muminin in Hadith, and whom I believe - and I suppose that anyone who has this knowledge (i.e science of hadith) would agree with me - that no woman has ever given birth to anyone like him after him".

~Abu 'Abd al-Rahman Muhammad Nasir al-Din b. al-Hajj Nuh b. Adam al-Ashqudi al-Albani, FATAWA (cairo: Maktabah al-Turath al-Islami; 1st edition, 1414H) p. 525

Only fanatic and ignorant will consider every single hadith ascribed to the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim to be Sahih (authentic).

.

ooseven: Mr Agboola, please take your email address off nairaland or get a truly anonymous one. Thank you.

Many thanks Mister. Really I just can't remember I left it for that long. Thanks once again

.

Assalam Alaykum wa rahmatullah...
Alhamdulillah, i've benefited alot from this discussn. Its indeed an eye opener. Thanks to u all.
@Al baqir, keep it up bro, always like the way u approach issues.

funsho4u:
Assalam Alaykum wa rahmatullah...
Alhamdulillah, i've benefited alot from this discussn. Its indeed an eye opener. Thanks to u all.
@Al baqir, keep it up bro, always like the way u approach issues.

Wa alaykum salam dear brother. May Allah guide our heart aright. Many thanks too.

Imam Bukhari in his Sahih Volume 1, Book 4, Number 148 records:

Narrated 'Aisha: The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).

Allah (swt) indeed is truthful when He says in His Infallible Book and Criterion for all books:
"He it is Who sent among the unlettered ones a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His Verses, purifying them, and teaching them the Book (this Quran, Islamic laws and Islamic jurisprudence) and Al-Hikmah (wisdom). And verily, they had been before in mainfest error"
~sura Jumu'a : 2

It is unacceptable in line with the above Quran verse and many others like that that:
...'Umar used to say to the Prophet: "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so.

May Allah guide our heart aright to the truth amidst falsehood.

@Albaqir. In your post in response to Akindarchi, are you saying Abubakr, Umar and Uthman, the first three khalifs were hypocrites? NB: When you wrote "These were group who accused him of madness at his death-bed. These were group who oppressed his family after him." Pls, expatiate.

MrOlai:
@Albaqir. In your post in response to Akindarchi, are you saying Abubakr, Umar and Uthman, the first three khalifs were hypocrites? NB: When you wrote "These were group who accused him of madness at his death-bed. These were group who oppressed his family after him." Pls, expatiate.

Kindly, re-read my reply to Akindarchi. There's no where I made such reply to Akindarchi. Even when he mistook the name Abu BAKRA for Abu Bakr, I had to correct him.

1. However, all sources reported the absence of Abu Bakar at the death-bed of the glorious prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) so he wasn't among those who accused the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) of madness (I seek Allah's protection for saying that).

2. Uthman too was not reported to be present because (i) Abdullah Ibn Abbas narrated the most comprehensive of the death-bed of the prophet's incidence. He only made mention of 'Umar not Abu Bakar and not Uthman.
(ii)After the prophet died, when Abu Bakar later arrived, Abu Ubayd 'Allah al-Jarrah only come to call Abu bakar and Umar away to Saqifah. Uthman was no where to be found.

3. That left us with Umar. If I should limit my references to only notable Sunni books, 'Umar was not among those who uttered that despicable Haraam word that prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) is mad.

There were two statements accredited to 'Umar:

1. When the holy prophet said: 'Bring pen and paper so that I can write for you document that so long you adhere to it, you will never go astray.
Umar said, ‘the Prophet has been overcome by pain, God’s Book is sufficient for us’. ~Bukhari and Muslim

2. According to Ibn Sa'ad in his "al-Tabaqat al-kubra", when women continue shouting "go and bring him ink-pot and tablet to write",

Umar said: "You are like women of Yusuf! If he is well, you will be ridden him and if he's not, you will be crying. When prophet heard this, he said: "Leave them for they are better than you

Those Who Accused The Prophet
“Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is?” After that Ibn ‘Abbas wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn ‘Abbas, “What is (about) Thursday?” He said, “When the condition (i.e. health) of Allah’s Apostle deteriorated, he said, ‘Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you after which you will never go astray.’ The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet.

They said, ‘What is wrong with him? Do you
think he is talking nonsense (delirious)? Ask
him (to see if he is talking no sense). The
Prophet replied, ‘Leave me, for I am in a better state than what you are asking me.’ ...

* Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 4 hadith 393.

There are tens of narration on "calamity of thursday".

@Albaqir. Thanks for your response. What if you don't limit your references to only notable Sunni Books, on Umar, would you consider Umar among the hypocrites? Pls, expatiate with proofs.

MrOlai:
@Albaqir. Thanks for your response. What if you don't limit your references to only notable Sunni Books, on Umar, would you consider Umar among the hypocrites? Pls, expatiate with proofs.

I once open a comprehensive detailed thread titled: "The cold Truth About Umar ibn al-Khattab". Unfortunately, the thread lasted 3days before mod decided to delete it. So what's the assurance that my comments will not be deleted? However, if you really want to research even with the help of scholars around you to verify the authenticity of every single details, I will be glad to provide you with ample materials. Here's my e-mail address:
seeabdwasi@gloworld.blackberry.com

Anyhow, here are few of the matter concerning Umar then you can judge within your inner-self where he truly belongs:

@Albaqir. May Allah(SWT) guide us aright(Amin). Abubakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali(Radiyallahu 'anium ajma'in) are all our pious predecessors on Islam. They are Alkhulafau Roshidun the Prophet(SAW) told us about. They worked tirelessly for Islam and the muslims. Bad-mouthing or saying evils about any of them could be tantamount to kufr. So, be careful!

Imam Muslim records in his Sahih, vol. 4 p. 1873, #2408 part of the very last sermon of the holy prophet (saws) to his Ummah (community) in his last Hajj at a place called (Ghadir) Khumm:

"...O Mankind! I am only a human being. The messenger of my Lord (i.e angel of death) will soon reach me and I will answer (the call of death). But, I am leaving behind over you TWO WEIGHTY THINGS. The first of them is the Book of Allah. In it there is guidance and light. So hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it and my Ahl al-Bayt (progeny). I REMIND YOU, with Allah, of my Ahl al-Bayt! I REMIND YOU, with Allah, of my Ahl al-Bayt! I REMIND YOU, with Allah, of my Ahl al-Bayt!"

Taking the bold ^ into account, how are these justified:
Burning Of Fatima's House
Ahmad bin Yahya Jabir Al-Baghdadi Al-Balathuri (d. 270 A.H), the author of Ansabul Ashraaf, narrates:

Abu Bakr sent for Ali to pledge allegiance to him (Abu Bakr), but he (Ali) refused. So Umar came (to his house) with a fire-lamp. Fatima encountered him at the door (of the house) and said: “O Ibn Al-Khattab, are you going to burn the door on ME?” He said “Yes! And this (burning the house) makes what your father had come with stronger…”
~Ansaabul Ashraaf 1:586

The famous historian Abdullah bin Muslim bin
Qutayba Dinwari (d. 276 A.H) has narrated:
Abu Bakr realised that a group of people who were with Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) did not pledge allegiance to him (Abu Bakr). So he (Abu Bakr) sent Umar to them who called for them while they were in Ali’s house, but they refused to come out (to pledge allegiance). So Umar ordered his men to get wood and said: I swear by the One whom Umar’s soul is in His power, you have to get out (of the house) or I will burn it down on whosoever is inside it!” Someone said to him: “O Aba-Hafs, but Fatima is inside!” Umar replied: “So what!!” And he walked with a group of his men until he reached the door of Fatima’s house and knocked on it. When she heard their voices she cried loudly: “O father! O Messenger of Allah! What is being inflicted upon us after your death from ibn Al-Khattab and ibn Abi-Qohafah?!”

When the people (who were with Umar) heard the voice and the cry of Fatima, some of them left. Umar with a few members of the group remained, forced Ali out of the house, took him to Abu Bakr and told him “Pledge your allegiance!” He (Ali) replied, “And if I don’t then what?” They replied, “By Allah whom there is no other God but Him, we will cut off your head!”
~Al-Imamah was-siyasah p.12&13

The famous historian Muhammad bin Jarir At-Tabari (d. 310 A.H) narrated:
Umar bin Al-Khattab went to the house of Ali. Talha, Zubayr and some men from the Muhajireen were also inside. He (Umar) said: By Allah, I will burn the house on you unless you go to pledge your allegiance (to Abu Bakr). So Zubayr came out with his sword drawn, but he tripped and the sword fell from his hand, so (the men with Umar) captured him and took him."
~Tarikhul Tabari vol. 2, p.443

MrOlai:
@Albaqir. May Allah(SWT) guide us aright(Amin). Abubakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali(Radiyallahu 'anium ajma'in) are all our pious predecessors on Islam. They are Alkhulafau Roshidun the Prophet(SAW) told us about. They worked tirelessly for Islam and the muslims. Bad-mouthing or saying evils about any of them could be tantamount to kufr. So, be careful!

There is no single evidence anywhere to justify the popular claim that Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman were among the "Rightly-guided Khalifs".

Historically, they were once the 'Khalifa' of the muslims but I'm so sorry to disappoint you bro. I do not recognize the legitimacy of their Khilafa.

You really sure they worked tirelessly for Islam? Perhaps you can explain this:
TRUTH ABOUT THE "VALOR" OF UMAR!
We were spoon fed that Islam came open when Umar accepted Islam. Alas:

1. BATTLE OF KHANDAQ!
Where was Umar at the Battle of khandaq (ditch) when the holy prophet (saws) called
upon any muslims to come out in a single combat with the bravest of the infidel, Amr ibn Abd Wudd (who was thought to be equal to a thousand men in fighting?

When Amr ibn Abd wudd continuously boasting sarcastically: "O Muslims! Where is your Heaven that you go to after your death? And where's the hell that
will be my destiny after I die? Come! Either you go to the Heaven or consign me to Hell!".

The holy prophet called out three times: "Who is there to answer this dog?".

NONE came out on those three occasions called upon by the prophet except Ali Ibn Abi Talib! He was given the go ahead by the holy prophet when nobody was able to answer the call.

The fight was so intense that none could see the fight due to dust that had engulfed the duo. Only the shout of "Allahu Akbar" from the lip of Ali gave the muslims assurance of victory. By the time the dust went off, lifeless body of Amr ibn Abd wudd was found on the
ground.
(Tarikh al-Tabari, Mustadrak of Hakim et al)

Where was Umar Ibn Al-khattab with his publicized "valor," "sagacity," and "power"?

2. BATTLE OF KHAYBAR!
The fortress of khaybar was one of the most feared fortress owned by the Jews. The holy prophet (saws) sent Abu bakar and some troops to conquer it. They all returned led by Abu bakar defeated. Second stance, Umar ibn al-khattab was sent with a large contingent on the same mission to conquer Khaybar. "...he (Umar) and his men ran away...the group said 'Umar had showed cowardice..." (Tarikh al-
Tabari vol 2 p. 300) .

Where was Umar's bravery and sagacity and valor?

On the third stance, the disappointed prophet (saws) exclaimed: "Tomorrow I will give the standard bearer to he who love God and His prophet; and God and His prophet loved him dearly. He will not return until he achieve victory".

Amr ibn A'as (another sahaba) said: "Each of us was praying fervently that the person should be us; and nobody thought of Ali ibn Abi talib since he was greatly ill".

In short the person turned to be Ali. He went, he saw and he conquered.

3. Where was Umar ibn al-khattab at the BATTLE OF UHUD (2nd year of Hijrah: Tarikh al-Tabari vol 2 p26, al-Kamil vol 2 p. 110; Tarikh khamis vol. 1 p. 485; Izalat al-khafa vol. 1 p168)...and BATTLE OF HUNAYN
(9/10th year of Hijrah); Qur'an 9 : 25?

Al-Bukhari recorded in his Sahih vol. 3 p. 45, a glimpse of battle of Hunayn:
"Abu Qutadah: 'The muslims flew! I too flew with them. Suddenly I noticed Umar Ibn al-khattab among the deserters. I asked him 'what has happened to the people? 'He replied, 'It is Allah's wish"

Such was the so-called 'valor', 'sagacity' and 'courage' we were told about this notable personality?

One wonder where does the so-called 'hadith of his greatness and bravery'; and the claims that unbelievers were terrified when he accepted Islam, came from.

MrOlai:
Bad-mouthing or saying evils about any of them could be tantamount to kufr. So, be careful!

"Be careful"? Of what? Kufr! Kufr!! Kufr!!! Anyway bad-mouthing sahaba does not lead to kufr in the ruling of Ahlu Sunnah wal jamaha. Even if it does, I'm no "ahlu sunnah wal jama'a" so such rule never bind on me.

I however puzzled! If you guys see no crime infact if you praised those sahaba who "accused the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) of MADNESS", why do you feel aggrieved if Umar is exposed of certain irregularities? Is Umar more important than the prophet?

.