Gospel reading - 16th Dec' 13:


Mt 21:23-27

When Jesus had come into the temple area,
the chief priests and the elders of the people approached him
as he was teaching and said,
“By what authority are you doing these things?
And who gave you this authority?”
Jesus said to them in reply,
“I shall ask you one question, and if you answer it for me,
then I shall tell you by what authority I do these things.
Where was John’s baptism from?
Was it of heavenly or of human origin?”
They discussed this among themselves and said,
“If we say ‘Of heavenly origin,’ he will say to us,
‘Then why did you not believe him?’
But if we say, ‘Of human origin,’ we fear the crowd,
for they all regard John as a prophet.”
So they said to Jesus in reply, “We do not know.”
He himself said to them,
“Neither shall I tell you by what authority I do these things.”

try69: Oh I also forgot, Mr bernimoore is a "THING" .... On earth



My people really said "when the gods want to use you, they first make you stupid."



2 Peter 2:10, 12
11... These false teachers are bold and arrogant, and show no respect for the glorious beings above; instead they insult them.

12... They attack with insults anything they do not understand

adsonstone: Of course, when truth shows up, Lies and fraud fly out (through) the window.

Lies (and fraud) like:

Paul suffered for the redemption of mankind, completing Christ's suffering for redemption.

Men are mediators between God and men.....note, men are also co-redeemers.

*Use of graven images in worship is a holy thing, infact, it is inspired*

God WILL save people outside Christ....especially the Muslims.

The 1000-year reign of Christ in which satan will have no power/influence (stated in revelation).....has started and it is still on .

...and the greatest of all lies: the RCC is infallible (cannot teach error) ....but it taught all these things above.

....and many more lies (and fraud) that the RCC has been peddling.

These things show that the teaching that the RCC itself is infallible (cannot teach errors)....is a LIE.

adsonstone: ...and of course, there are still many more teachings/doctrines RCC reps still have to defend.

Just indicate by quoting me and show that you're not scared of defending what is taught by/in the RCC.

kennedyugo:

On the issue of worship or reverence of Mary.
Christ outrightly forbade it here.
Luke 11:27-28: 27 As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!" 28 But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

.:

On the other hand. How do you believe that saints in Heaven are able to hear you? How do you think Mary knows what's happening here on earth?
God only has the power to hear prayers.
If you believe dead people are aware of happenings here on earth, then you're no better than pagans who believe their dead relatives monitor them; who call on their ancestors.

You've heard of necromancy?
Deuteronomy 18:10-12: 10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Whenever you call on dead person whether a saint or not, to help you, you're no more than a necromancer!
Remember Saul how he consulted a witch to raise up Samuel! And how God was very angry with him for that?

What's different when catholics consult "Mary" (supposedly), and she manifests through apparitions?

Free yourselves brothers. Eternity is nothing to joke with.
Why don't we follow God's laid down principles from the Bible. At least since God never asked us to venerate Mary, He will not hold us guilty if we do not. But it'll be a sorry story to discover He hates whatever we defend and hold unto here as a tradition that He never commands us. We cannot even stand to defend ourselves.

Finally
Galatians 1:8-10: [...] 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

try69:
If you take those to mean christ was rebuking his mother, then I'd only pray for you


Saints don't die..they are alive in heaven

kennedyugo:
The woman was not the mother, but she was blessing the mother, then Jesus corrected her. To show the mother is no special or should not be taken as to be revered specially!

kennedyugo: Saints don't die yes, but they don't have the power to know what's happening here on earth, just like you can't know what's happening in somewhere in America when you're not there. Only God has the power.

kennedyugo: Still on this issue.
Do you know satan is the accuser of the brethren?
Now if you reach the gate of Heaven and satan accuses you that you practice idolatry by worshiping Mary, how can you defend yourself? Is it with these flimsy reasons you putting forward here? Maybe you'll quote your catholic doctrine or what pope said?
Remember when satan tempted Jesus? Jesus overcame by the word of God.
My friend, if you don't have word of God to back up yourself, you're g gone!
You think satan is a small boy? He is older than any human ever lived.
You''d better follow simple principles of God laid down for salvation, rather than inventing your own.

Eternity is more serious than we think.
Without holiness, no man shall see God.

italo:
Luke 1:41 - And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:[/b]42 - And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: [b]Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.43 - And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?44 - For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.45 - And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.

That sounds like special reverence inspired by God the Holy Spirit.



Oh! You mean angels are God...

...Luke 15:10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.



Rev 6:10 - And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (holy and true) dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Sounds like they know that God hasn't avenged against the wicked on earth.

italo:

Have you ever tried stand-up comedy?

Seems you know how to make people laugh.

kennedyugo:

Well angels are ministering spirit, and they can be sent anywhere on errand. There are angels working on earth here. Angels follow children of God most times.
Saints are resting there. They're not ministering, at least Bible never told us so.
But why assuming or inventing ideas that cannot be backed up with the Bible?
Jesus never commanded us to revere Mary. Read that Luke 11:27,28 again.
Jesus said himself is the only way to God. But you invented and attached Mary to it. Making her co-ruler with or queen or whatever to Jesus. That's absurd!
Remember Mary is human. Jesus is son of God.
Mary never died for man, Jesus did. Mary was never sinless, Jesus is.

In fact I can't understand why you people are so attached to and can't do without praying to Mary. That shows there must be a force behind it,

kennedyugo:

Well you can laugh and mock.
But you've not been able to defend your flawed doctrines before human convincingly, how much less before God!

italo:

Just like Jesus wasn't able to defend his 'flawed doctrines before humans.' He was convicted and executed...yet he was right.

italo: ^^^

All those verses are perfectly in line with Catholic doctrine...as is all of the Bible.

Thank you for your jokes.

italo: ^^^

All those verses are perfectly in line with Catholic doctrine...as is all of the Bible.

Thank you for your jokes.

italo: Yes. The oldest way to argue against Catholic teaching is to argue against your own version of Catholic teaching.

italo: Catholic teaching or your version of it?

Look at what these people Vatican offers 'time off
purgatory' to followers of Pope
Francis tweets Papal court handling
pardons for sins
says contrite Catholics may win
'indulgences' by following World Youth
Day on Twitter! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/16/vatican-indulgences-pope-francis-tweets In its latest attempt to keep up with
the
times the Vatican has married one of
its
oldest traditions to the world of
social media by offering "indulgences" to
followers of Pope Francis' tweets.
The church's granted indulgences
reduce the time Catholics believe
they
will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been
absolved
of their sins. The remissions got a
bad name in the Middle Ages
because unscrupulous
churchmen sold them for large sums of
money. But now indulgences are
being
applied to the 21st century. But a
senior Vatican official warned web-
surfing Catholics that indulgences still required a dose of old-fashioned
faith, and that paradise was not just
a
few mouse clicks away. "You can't
obtain indulgences like getting a
coffee from a vending machine," Archbishop Claudio Maria
Celli, head of the pontifical council
for
social communication, told the
Italian
daily Corriere della Sera. Indulgences these days are granted to those who
carry out certain tasks –
such as climbing the Sacred Steps, in
Rome (reportedly brought from
Pontius
Pilate's house after Jesus scaled them
before his crucifixion), a feat that
earns
believers seven years off purgatory.
But attendance at events such as the
Catholic World Youth Day, in Rio de Janeiro, a week-long event starting
on
22 July, can also win an indulgence.
Mindful of the faithful who cannot
afford to fly to Brazil, the Vatican's
sacred apostolic penitentiary, a court which handles the forgiveness of
sins,
has also extended the privilege to
those
following the "rites and pious
exercises" of the event on television, radio and
through social media. "That includes
following Twitter," said a source at
the penitentiary,
referring to Pope Francis' Twitter
account, which has gathered seven million followers. "But you must be
following the events live. It is not as
if
you can get an indulgence by
chatting on the internet." In its
decree, the penitentiary said that getting an indulgence would hinge
on the beneficiary having previously
confessed and being "truly penitent
and
contrite". Praying while following
events in Rio online would need to be carried out
with "requisite devotion", it
suggested. Apart from the papal
Twitter account, the Vatican has
launched an
online news portal supported by an app, a Facebook page, and it plans
to
use the online social networking site
Pinterest. "What really counts is that
the tweets the Pope sends from
Brazil or the photos of the Catholic World
Youth
Day that go up on Pinterest produce
authentic spiritual fruit in the hearts
of
everyone," said Celli. Look at what these people believe! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/16/vatican-indulgences-pope-francis-tweets