Reyginus: Is that we what you want? I don't need a thousand example to proof that the devil was worse.
It will require us writing almost the entire bible here. And even with that, from the look of things, you will still not be satisfied.
The fact that the bible is interpreted to mean 'the word of God' should summarize it to any unbiased person. It cannot in any way proof that the devil is right at all. Where it seemed god committed evil it was attributed one way of the other to destroy the work of the devil.

Sorry but you're not a very convincing atheist. I asked you a direct question, presented you with the form of a response and showed how I arrived at my own conclusion but your response is that you'll need to write out the entire Bible? Did I have to write out the entire Bible to arrive at my conclusion? This tells me that you're still not ready to grab the bull by the horns. I didn't ask you whether the devil was right, I asked you which one of them had the better character.

Reyginus:
No. I think it is the other way round. I wonder how anyone can evrn come up with the statement that the devil appeared better in the bible.
You are still missing the point. Everything, whether unjust acts, committed by Yahweh was performed to eradicate the work of devil.

Yet another evasion. Many atheists have come up with the statement that the devil's character was better than that of Yahweh e.g see here and here. Please try to defend your claims with evidence rather than mere assertions.

Reyginus:
The fact that he uses evil to achieve good is usually as explained by the novel to curb the power of the devil.
This is commonsense.

No it isn't commonsense for an omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent entity to require evil. Once again, I see you're finding it difficult to think these things through like an atheist.

Reyginus:
Whichever way the protagonist in a novel uses to achieve his purpose, he can never be worse than the antagonist.
This is commom knowledge naw!

Another pointless assertion that does nothing to help you. I simply asked you to compare their characters and using evidence from the book, let me know which one of them had the better character. You could easily answer the question in the pattern I indicated.

Looks to me like your facade of being an atheist is rapidly crumbling under a mild probing. If you disagree, you can take a look at the views expressed by other actual atheists on this forum and see what they think of the comparison of characters between Yahweh and the devil.

It isn't easy to pretend to be an atheist is it?

Reyginus: Is that we what you want? I don't need a thousand example to proof that the devil was worse.
It will require us writing almost the entire bible here. And even with that, from the look of things, you will still not be satisfied.
The fact that the bible is interpreted to mean 'the word of God' should summarize it to any unbiased person. It cannot in any way proof that the devil is right at all. Where it seemed god committed evil it was attributed one way of the other to destroy the work of the devil.

No. I think it is the other way round. I wonder how anyone can evrn come up with the statement that the devil appeared better in the bible.
You are still missing the point. Everything, whether unjust acts, committed by Yahweh was performed to eradicate the work of devil.

The fact that he uses evil to achieve good is usually as explained by the novel to curb the power of the devil.
This is commonsense.

Whichever way the protagonist in a novel uses to achieve his purpose, he can never be worse than the antagonist.
This is commom knowledge naw!

Hmm! intellectual fraud at its best!

thehomer:

I didn't ask you whether the devil was right, I asked you which one of them had the better character.

There is no way this could have been the question. Try rephrasing it again. I've answered severally that God has the better character.
So, it is either you've lost track of the question or you are still trying to be mischievious. Your question was why I think god has the better character.

thehomer:

Yet another evasion. Many atheists have come up with the statement that the devil's character was better than that of Yahweh e.g see here and here. Please try to defend your claims with evidence rather than mere assertions.

Frankly speaking, I do not consider the question too serious and sincere to come start digging up verses to support as evidence. I fail to understand why this is so hard for you to grasp.

thehomer:


No it isn't commonsense for an omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent entity to require evil. Once again, I see you're finding it difficult to think these things through like an atheist.

Lol. Once again you forget that I have identified it as fiction, in the first place. You are arguing it without considering what the material was all about.

How you don't see that how a fiction writer could make a particular character morally balanced than the other character. Once you begin to understand it in this light you begin to get the point I am trying to make.

thehomer:


Another pointless assertion that does nothing to help you. I simply asked you to compare their characters and using evidence from the book, let me know which one of them had the better character. You could easily answer the question in the pattern I indicated.

I'm tired of repeating myself.

thehomer:

Looks to me like your facade of being an atheist is rapidly crumbling under a mild probing. If you disagree, you can take a look at the views expressed by other actual atheists on this forum and see what they think of the comparison of characters between Yahweh and the devil.

That's the problem. By default you've assumed that my answers must be in agreement with that of some other atheists.
How am I sure that you are not already made up on what to agree upon. That seems perfectly the case here. It is as if there is a code of conduct without which whatever I say is meaningless.

thehomer:

It isn't easy to pretend to be an atheist is it?

No difference with what I feel as a theist. It is not always easy.

nnofaith: Hmm! intellectual fraud at its best!

How do you mean?

advocate666: Anyway reyginus, you can never be a good atheist until you accept Satan in your life.

That ^ is true!

Reyginus: There is no way this could have been the question. Try rephrasing it again. I've answered severally that God has the better character.
So, it is either you've lost track of the question or you are still trying to be mischievious. Your question was why I think god has the better character.

Well why do you think God has the better character? What evidence will you be providing? All I see here is yet another attempt at an evasion that has failed.

Reyginus:
Frankly speaking, I do not consider the question too serious and sincere to come start digging up verses to support as evidence. I fail to understand why this is so hard for you to grasp.

This is such a ridiculous response that I wonder why you made it. You don't think you need to support your assertions? Should we just take your word for it? All I see is you trying and failing to present evidence supporting your claim.

Reyginus:
Lol. Once again you forget that I have identified it as fiction, in the first place. You are arguing it without considering what the material was all about.

Sure you say it is fiction but why do you find it so difficult to state the reasons for your conclusion? Any one who knows how to have a discussion understands these basics.

Reyginus:
How you don't see that how a fiction writer could make a particular character morally balanced than the other character. Once you begin to understand it in this light you begin to get the point I am trying to make.

Where is your evidence that what you say actually is the case in the Bible? Oh I forgot that Reyginus doesn't need to provide any evidence for his assertions. He is so wise that all words from his mouth must be true and need not be backed up with evidence.

Reyginus:
I'm tired of repeating myself.

So far, you've not been able to present any evidence from the Bible that Yahweh has a better character than the devil.

Reyginus:
That's the problem. By default you've assumed that my answers must be in agreement with that of some other atheists.
How am I sure that you are not already made up on what to agree upon. That seems perfectly the case here. It is as if there is a code of conduct without which whatever I say is meaningless.

Still failing in your attempt at yet another distraction. I didn't say your answers must be in agreement with that of other atheists, I said you should present evidence for your claims. My point with other atheists is that they won't try to be as evasive as you've been. By the way, you're still failing at it.

Reyginus:
No difference with what I feel as a theist. It is not always easy.

Sure. If I asked you as a theist why you thought God was good using the Bible, you would have quickly provided quotes and what not. Now I ask you to compare God's character in the Bible to that of the devil using evidence from the Bible and so far, you've not been able to say why you think God has a better character than the devil. That question still awaits you.

This one eye man has started again with his half truth here.

thehomer:

Who would you say is the fictional writer?



Sorry but it looks like you're giving a dog a bad name to hang it. What he has shown us doesn't reflect the opposite. Who was responsible in the examples I presented? You didn't answer but instead ignored it to talk about the book of revelation. Simply turning around and blaming the devil for everything in the end would be like turning around and blaming everything in the end on Harry Potter as being the real bad guy in the book series. Simply accusing someone of a crime doesn't make them guilty. Why not actually take a look at the accusations and try to assess where the guild lies? That was why I listed examples for you. Why don't you address them and if you like, present the devil doing worse things than commanding genocides and testing people by asking them to kill their children.



No, the writer doesn't portray the devil like that. The writer says what I pointed out to you that Yahweh did. You can help by saying what the devil has actually done. Not what you think he will do or what someone accused him of doing but what he actually did.

is the bible telling the activities of satan or it only mentions satan when his activities crosses the processes of the coming of the messaiah ?

How then can the bible be a report sheet for all of satan's activities ? Hence a report sheet of all that satan did ?

Blindness is the reason for expecting satan to put down his ways in black and white honestly just like Yahweh did.

Keep posting rubbish here, afteral, in the land of the blind, a one eye man is king.

mumumugu: If thy die now in an atheist state,thou shall be condemned to hell

Only a slowpoke can think that, and only an even bigger slowpoke would say it.

Reyginus: The pivot of the loftiest of delusions exhibited by modern man. A mental construct permeated unknowingly as a placebo by the religious mind.

this is simple really. all through the bible, the devil has been accused of doing the most hideous things while Yahweh has been said to be all good and what not. now when asked to look into the accounts and show evidence that the devil was actually worse, @reyginus began to squirm.

it is not enough to just say that this guy is bad and therefore, hang him. you have to provide evidence. and since the bible is where this whole Yahweh/satan wahala is contained in, it is sensible to look into it and make our conclusions.


Now Rey, using the bible, show how Satan is worse than Yahweh. give compelling evidence and examples if you please.

HAHAHAHA!!! I actually did this at some-point.


Result: I'm still an Atheist.

Reyginius, you couldnt avoid the inevitable

you got smoked out with your fake atheist responses by another atheist....ha

Reyginus: Guys, I am going to represent atheism for some hours/days. I'd like you to throw in any question which you feel our resident atheists have failed to deal with. Or concepts of the theism which you believe destroys atheism completely.
Theists, atheists, pantheists, deists, panentheists, fideists, etc., are invited.

Answer this: Who do you think is the uncause cause? 2. Is that one visible or invisible? 3. could he be intelligent or not?

Anyone who say there is no creator, to me, he must be blind or something is wrong with his intellect.

Reyginus: As a man who holds science in high regard, I make bold to answer in the affirmative.

For example, in Quantum Physics, it is possible for the laws of thermodynamics to be violated, resulting in the creation of energy from nothing. This can be summarized as a vacuum flunctuation.

But I don't believe the content of the bible to be true in the first place, I don't also know it to be true. Like I posed to logicboy, a thing always in constant contradiction cannot and should not be taken seriously.

I think i get why LB is not impress, you are not honest. This very post is slanted to make an atheist look foolish. Perhaps this is your purpose for starting this thread

Mee234:
I think i get why LB is not impress, you are not honest. This very post is slanted to make an atheist look foolish. Perhaps this is your purpose for starting this thread

Thank you

Mee234:
I think i get why LB is not impress, you are not honest. This very post is slanted to make an atheist look foolish. Perhaps this is your purpose for starting this thread

he didnt think we will scruitinize his posts

thehomer:

Well why do you think God has the better character? What evidence will you be providing? All I see here is yet another attempt at an evasion that has failed.



This is such a ridiculous response that I wonder why you made it. You don't think you need to support your assertions? Should we just take your word for it? All I see is you trying and failing to present evidence supporting your claim.



Sure you say it is fiction but why do you find it so difficult to state the reasons for your conclusion? Any one who knows how to have a discussion understands these basics.



Where is your evidence that what you say actually is the case in the Bible? Oh I forgot that Reyginus doesn't need to provide any evidence for his assertions. He is so wise that all words from his mouth must be true and need not be backed up with evidence.



So far, you've not been able to present any evidence from the Bible that Yahweh has a better character than the devil.



Still failing in your attempt at yet another distraction. I didn't say your answers must be in agreement with that of other atheists, I said you should present evidence for your claims. My point with other atheists is that they won't try to be as evasive as you've been. By the way, you're still failing at it.



Sure. If I asked you as a theist why you thought God was good using the Bible, you would have quickly provided quotes and what not. Now I ask you to compare God's character in the Bible to that of the devil using evidence from the Bible and so far, you've not been able to say why you think God has a better character than the devil. That question still awaits you.

If you knew me you'd have noticed I wasn't the knid of theist that uses the statement under dispute to defend myself. I was better than that.

I don't know what where you are getting the impression that there is no evidence. But since you want these evidence so bad I will go ahead and supply them.

I know you won't dissapoint me.

Mk. 1:13 - Jesus "was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by satan.

Rev 20:2 "the devil and Satan, deceive the whole world".

1 John 3:8 whoever continues to sin belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the very beginning. The son of God appeared from this very season to destroy what the Devil has done.

Rev 12:9 the huge dragon has been thrown out-that ancient serpent, called the devil, or satan, that decieved the whole world.

Gen 3:1-13-the devil took the form of the snake the deceive and destroy mankind.

I Pet. 5:8 - "your adversary, the devil, prowls about like roaring lion"

truthislight: This one eye man has started again with his half truth here.



is the bible telling the activities of satan or it only mentions satan when his activities crosses the processes of the coming of the messaiah ?

How then can the bible be a report sheet for all of satan's activities ? Hence a report sheet of all that satan did ?

Blindness is the reason for expecting satan to put down his ways in black and white honestly just like Yahweh did.

Keep posting rubbish here, afteral, in the land of the blind, a one eye man is king.

The thing tire me o!

Mr Troll: this is simple really. all through the bible, the devil has been accused of doing the most hideous things while Yahweh has been said to be all good and what not. now when asked to look into the accounts and show evidence that the devil was actually worse, @reyginus began to squirm.

it is not enough to just say that this guy is bad and therefore, hang him. you have to provide evidence. and since the bible is where this whole Yahweh/satan wahala is contained in, it is sensible to look into it and make our conclusions.


Now Rey, using the bible, show how Satan is worse than Yahweh. give compelling evidence and examples if you please.

You guys amaze me. What other evidence do you expect when the bible has already made it clear that everything worked for God. What you consider an atrocity is only a means to curb a greater atrocity the devil is planning.

This should be commonsense Read through my latest response to thehomer. Though I am not expecting something truthful.

Logicboy03: Reyginius, you couldnt avoid the inevitable

you got smoked out with your fake atheist responses by another atheist....ha

Lol. If that is his aim, he is not even a step to achieving it. And i'm serious. Just like after reading the childhood tales of tortoise, one comes up with a very ridiculous question: 'tortoise acted badly, so he is not intelligent?
He forgets that the tale was meant to work for the tortoise irrespective of his character, and, any attempt to state or reason otherwise will be deviating from the story.

On a serious note, I think it is easier to be an atheist.

Reyginus: Lol. If that is his aim, he is not even a step to achieving it. And i'm serious. Just like after reading the childhood tales of tortoise, one comes up with a very ridiculous question: 'tortoise acted badly, so how is he intelligent?
He forgets that the tale was meant to work for the tortoise irrespective of his character, and, any attempt to state or reason otherwise will be deviating from the story.

On a serious note, I think it is easier to be an atheist.

Guy....stop decieving yourself.....see how you are fumbling....being an atheist is harder than being a christian.

Reality is not nice

JMAN05:

Answer this: Who do you think is the uncause cause?

As a scientist I will say I don't know. But I can tell you that it is not a 'who'.
The problem of using who is to assume that the origin of everything was the handiwork of a man. It is not possible. He cannot have the same anatomical and physiological mechanisms and still be able to create this level of intelligence.

JMAN05:

2. Is that one visible or invisible?

Frankly speaking, I don't know. But which one?

JMAN05:


3. could he be intelligent or not?

No. He is not intelligent because it is not a 'He' in the first place. Check number 1.

JMAN05:

Anyone who say there is no creator, to me, he must be blind or something is wrong with his intellect.

What does this mean?

Logicboy03:


Guy....stop decieving yourself.....see how you are fumbling....being an atheist is harder than being a christian.

Reality is not nice

You see your problem and the problem with some of my atheist brothers. You are always in the habit of dismissing a position without saying anything relevant about it. Tackle my points and shun the ad hominem.

Are you scared of engaging me intellectually?

Reyginus: You see your problem and the problem with some of my atheist brothers. You are always in the habit of dismissing a position without saying anything relevant about it. Tackle my points and shun the ad hominem.

Are you scared of engaging me intellectually?

You are a joke........

Mee234:
I think i get why LB is not impress, you are not honest. This very post is slanted to make an atheist look foolish. Perhaps this is your purpose for starting this thread

Mee234:
I think i get why LB is not impress, you are not honest. This very post is slanted to make an atheist look foolish. Perhaps this is your purpose for starting this thread

Please don't try to join the band wagon.

Lb, needs a cranium check. The dude is suffering from intellectual dwarfism.

By the way, how does the post make atheists to appear foolish? I just don't umderstand.

Logicboy03:




You are a joke........

You are scared of engaging intellectually. I challenge you to a debate in any field.

nnofaith: he didnt think we will scruitinize his posts

On.a serious note, I want to be engaged. If you think my post is irrational, break it in units like thehomer has been doing, and show the the foolishness in it.

Reyginus: If you knew me you'd have noticed I wasn't the knid of theist that uses the statement under dispute to defend myself. I was better than that.

All I know about you right now is that you're failing to support your claim.

Reyginus:
I don't know what where you are getting the impression that there is no evidence. But since you want these evidence so bad I will go ahead and supply them.

I asked you for evidence, you tried all sorts of tricks to avoid presenting them. For some reason, you thought you didn't need to present them? Well think again.

Reyginus:
I know you won't dissapoint me.

Mk. 1:13 - Jesus "was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by satan.

And this is worse than commanding a genocide?

Reyginus:
Rev 20:2 "the devil and Satan, deceive the whole world".

Another mere accusation besides, God too uses deception.

Reyginus:
1 John 3:8 whoever continues to sin belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the very beginning. The son of God appeared from this very season to destroy what the Devil has done.

Yet another vague accusation. What was the sin? Was it as bad as killing 42 children because some man was bald?

Reyginus:
Rev 12:9 the huge dragon has been thrown out-that ancient serpent, called the devil, or satan, that decieved the whole world.

Gen 3:1-13-the devil took the form of the snake the deceive and destroy mankind.

I Pet. 5:8 - "your adversary, the devil, prowls about like roaring lion"

All these accusations are vague. Take another look at the examples I gave and you'll notice that they're very clear but with the devil, you've just presented vague accusations. This is a classic example of giving the devil a bad name to hang him.

We have Yahweh who commanded genocides, killed 42 children for mocking some guy, tested someone by telling him to kill his child, doing nothing while another one killed his daughter and toyed with Job. Then the devil who "deceived people". And your conclusion is that the devil is worse? Ignoring the fact that God too deceives people. In fact, he makes people do what they don't want to do like in the Pharaoh's case. Come on. You'll have to do much better than these passages. Note that I actually said what God did I didn't just say he "told people to do bad things". That would be the equivalent of saying the devil was worse because he "deceived people".

So, as far as I can see, you've not shown that the devil was worse. All you've said is that the devil deceived people but God does that too so God still comes out ahead on the worse character thing. You can help yourself by telling us what the devil's deception was. i.e what it is that the devil deceived us about.

Reyginus: You guys amaze me. What other evidence do you expect when the bible has already made it clear that everything worked for God. What you consider an atrocity is only a means to curb a greater atrocity the devil is planning.

This should be commonsense Read through my latest response to thehomer. Though I am not expecting something truthful.

Come on what greater atrocity? How many times did the devil command a genocide? How many times did God command a genocide?

@thehomer

You should realise that the bible was written about God, not necessarily the devil, so it doesn't go into much detail about specific actions of the devil.

If it did, it would cause nightmares...

thehomer:

All I know about you right now is that you're failing to support your claim.



I asked you for evidence, you tried all sorts of tricks to avoid presenting them. For some reason, you thought you didn't need to present them? Well think again.



And this is worse than commanding a genocide?



Another mere accusation besides, God too uses deception.



Yet another vague accusation. What was the sin? Was it as bad as killing 42 children because some man was bald?



All these accusations are vague. Take another look at the examples I gave and you'll notice that they're very clear but with the devil, you've just presented vague accusations. This is a classic example of giving the devil a bad name to hang him.

We have Yahweh who commanded genocides, killed 42 children for mocking some guy, tested someone by telling him to kill his child, doing nothing while another one killed his daughter and toyed with Job. Then the devil who "deceived people". And your conclusion is that the devil is worse? Ignoring the fact that God too deceives people. In fact, he makes people do what they don't want to do like in the Pharaoh's case. Come on. You'll have to do much better than these passages. Note that I actually said what God did I didn't just say he "told people to do bad things". That would be the equivalent of saying the devil was worse because he "deceived people".

So, as far as I can see, you've not shown that the devil was worse. All you've said is that the devil deceived people but God does that too so God still comes out ahead on the worse character thing. You can help yourself by telling us what the devil's deception was. i.e what it is that the devil deceived us about.

Lol. I guessed right again. You didn't dissapoint me. With all due respect I marvel at your use of logic here.
I don't see any way you are going to see the point again with this logic of yours. Not at all. But I will still do well to tell why I think so.

Your problem is that you seem to be treating the so-called fiction as something that really happened. You are doing what anyone shouldn't try after reading a work of fiction.
It caan never possibly happen, it is despicable and an attempt to deviate from the substance of the work.

Let me remind you. There are constants in this work of fiction, which once removed, is no longer speaking of the same thing. Some of this constants are:
1. God is always good irrespective of his actions'.
2. The devil is the bad guy that tries in unexplainable means to destroy mankind'.
3. Some events are beyond the readers comprehension.

What the bible is saying, as far as I and a logical majority are concerned, is that no matter the events intervened by God it is usually a good thing, which might be beyond the scope of the reader, but always for the limitation of the devil's power. I'm baffled that you are not seeing this.

It is not as if the bible failed to correct the notion that God's actions were evil, it even went further to tell you that for mankind to survive it is necessary for God to do the things he did. This is commonsense.

If you read a fiction work, say a movie e.g Merlin. From the outset, it was popularized that the destiny of the kingdom waa placed, by some supernatural providence which we dare not question, on his hands.
Notice how Merlin employed magic in dealing with distractions in the Kingdom of Camelot. He did evil things, with magic all in the name of protecting the kingdom. Then there was Lady Morgana, the witch.
Possessed by a demon, she was accused of witchcraft and was made to leave the kingdom. A comparison of the evil Merlin did to protect the Kingdom with that of Lady Morgana will be in the rough ratio of 10:1.
There comes somebody, a rational fellow, who tells you that Merlin was the worse character because he did greater evil irrespective of the essence.

I am sure you will not take this person serious or even if you do, it is because you are too shocked to hear it. That's the state I am in now.

thehomer:

Come on what greater atrocity? How many times did the devil command a genocide? How many times did God command a genocide?

I think my response above will do.