huxley:

True, you may not de-convert, which is not my aim, but you will have learnt something new.   I bet you did not know the difficulty with the question of the origin of sin before, did you?

learned or no learned,sin or no sin,origin or no origin,wont make me or stop me from loving God,watever happened is for a reason,and dat reason i dont know,so dont ask me

i love my God ooooooo,pastor huxley so ur researches or research wont make me see him from a different angle,neither will it make me start having double mind about him

where is that huxley of a guy sef, i have another question for him

go ahead

r u a nigerian?i mean both parents nigerian?cos i really wanna know why u later changed to become an atheist

rampant:

r u a nigerian?i mean both parents nigerian?because i really want to know why u later changed to become an atheist

No I not Nigerian. I was born in Cameroon, although I don't consider myself now to be of any nationality. I carry a British and a Cameroonian passport for administrative convenience.

no wonder

rampant:

no wonder

No wonder, what?

never mind 

gotta hit my sack now,ciao

jesus loves u

[Quote author=KunleOshob]
@topic
on the contrary every one is born to acknowledge and believe in the existence of a supreme being (GOD) and that is why over 95% of the world's population believe in th existence of God leaving only a very inconsequential less than 5% hallucinating within themselves about the possibility of the non existence of god  which in it self sounds absolutely insane. I can accept if a man does not believe in a particular religion or all the various religions, but when a man says there is no God because he as a problem with a particular religion or belief system, such a person needs to be seriously examined.[/quote]

@KunleOshob
You are very correct.
Belief in the existence or the supreme creator is natural with humans. Even a child that was never taught of God, once the child reaches a certain age, he or she will start asking questions like: "who created everything?" "How did the world came in to being?" and before you knew it he will soon find a theory that answers his questions or keeps his mind at rest.
This desire to know, to question and to investigate is a gift in humans, or a product of the human spirit which animals do not posses. Hence animals do not ask such questions or wonder about the origin of their life. They lack the ability to comprehend such knowledge, which only the spirit can comprehend.
This Spirit in humans is a gift from the Almighty; it is the breath of God in man. It is what makes us humans; it is the real man himself.

justcool:

You are very correct.
Belief in the existence or the supreme creator is natural with humans. Even a child that was never taught of God, once the child reaches a certain age, he or she will start asking questions like: "who created everything?" "How did the world came in to being?" and before you knew it he will soon find a theory that answers his questions or keeps his mind at rest.
This desire to know, to question and to investigate is a gift in humans, or a product of the human spirit which animals do not posses. Hence animals do not ask such questions or wonder about the origin of their life. They lack the ability to comprehend such knowledge, which on the spirit can comprehend.
This Spirit in humans is a gift from the Almighty; it is the breath of God in man. It is what makes us humans; it is the real man himself.

TO ask who created everything is not to an acknowledge of god, is it. The child id merely asking exploratory questions about nature.

@rampant
does jesus love the people in china, japan, thailand, india, and the americas? if he does then why no mention of them in the bible even when their civilization predated christ?why are there no prophets amongst them when they were very much in existance during the time of jesus?  what will happen to them when they die? will they rot in hell for eternity for not following jesus who they have never encountered and who refused to reveal himself to them? the answer is simple the reason why china and india and the americas where not mentioned in the bible is because the jews at that time never knew that such places were in existance thats why there were'nt included in the scheme of things if they had known they would have included them in the scheme of things or do you mean to tell me that an almighty creator doesnt know all the people that he created to the extent of ommiting them in his holy book?'if there is a god he would have reveal himself to the whole of humanity not just some people and tell them to help propagate his massage.

All religions were created to answer the very difficult questions people had about the purpose of life and the pesky question of what happens to a person when he dies, every race and group of people during the medieval times tried to give answers to those questions and came up with some set of guidelines in other to explain the unexplainable about life ,its purpose, nature and death. Those cultures where then embedded in the life styles of the people and it kept moving from one generation to generation whilst undergoing the process of evolution, thats why in the bible we have the new and old testament.

the god in the old testament is definately not the same god in the new teatament, we have the god in the old testament ordering people to kill , maim and loot the treasury of non jews because it was the practice at that time, the jews wanted to keep themselves together and they had to encouarge each other and give justifications for engaging in wars with their fellow neighbours hence the resorted to the idea that they were the chosen people by their god to give moral justification for all the killings, looting, stealing of land, and enslavement they made their enemies undergo telling their people that they were commanded by their god to do so because their enemies too had their own gods and didnt believe in the god of the jews,when actually they were just looking for reasons to carry out their henious crimes and sometimes unjustifiable wars against their enemies.

human and animal scarifice was the norm hence it was encouraged by god in the old testament. but because the moral ziegiest had shifted and those babaric acts that were encouraged and sometimes commanded by god in the old testament were no longer acceptable to the people the founders of the christain religion came up with the new  testament (new ideas or new begining), in it was the divinity of jesus who came to the world as god to do away with the old and evil ways of the old testament which could not hold any ground because there was little  universal morality to be fechted or learned from the old and primitive way(old teatament) the jews in the old testament were encouraged to love  god and their fellow jews but not the non jews . that doctrine could not be used universally so a new and universally accepatable doctrine had to be invented hence the idea of the divinity of jesus who now came to end practices like stoning to death of wrong doers, putting and end to fighting the enemies of god and his people,destruction of people by god for trivail reasons,love of the poor was espoused, giving women rights because they had very little rights in the old testament, and providing an end to the wrongful stealing of peoples lands in the name of god by the jews, and better treatment of slaves was advocated by all people.

monogamy was then gradually introduced and the love of god and man was highly encouraged instead of love of jews only which was what was advocated by the prophets and god himself in the old testament. Because the moral ziegiest had shifted the idea of trinity sprang up came into being and gave people reason to believe in god in a different way with a coherent explanation(trinity was integrated with some parts of the pagan worship doctorines at that time for some political reasons). the introduction of holy spirit, hell and other ideas came up in the new testament to conform with the mindset of the people and provide the answers for life after death and the purpose of living but this time the religion was opened for innovation, the religion was dynamic and was made to be an all inclusive religion for the whole of man kind not only for the jews as was in the case of the old testament.

the same thing is what is happening in islam but the problem with islam is that there are no grey areas like christainity (which is constantly evolving), there are no cutting edge areas in islam that is why people find it hard to understand it. islam highly discourages innovation and wants people to live their lives in the medieval ages which is not possible in this day and time hence the deviation and constant explanation by islamic apologist. the rules set by islam can hardly stand in todays world but coherant excuses have been provide by the religion to dispel the charges of the critics same as christainity.Islam only attacks and denounces chriatainity and judaism by name because those where the only religions that the founders of islam knew were in existance at that time, if they had known about hinduism, shinto etc they would have attacked and denounced them by name too. if god can reveal himself to a particular group of people in the mediaval ages then i wonder why he refuses to do so in this modern day and time. if there is a god he would explain himself to his creatures and will not allow his creatures to tell their fellow creatures what he wants of them, if god can tell pastors, rabbis,imams etc what he wants people to do and how to live their lives why not appear and tell people to do so himself because the song is always better from the horse's mouth. if god can tell a pastor,rabbi, imam etc what verse to read from the bible,torah or koran why can't he come out and tell people himself. why give people free will which they never asked for and throw them in hell for going against it? why reveal your self to some of your creatures and not others and punish those that you refused to reveal your self to for eternity for not believeing in you. those that make any sense?

The division in christainity and the uncountable sects tells you that it is purely a man made religion just like every other religion(islam,hinduism,judaism,shinto,buddahism etc) even the bible has so many versions and translations, christains can not come up with a single and acceptable brand that will be adhered to the world over. islam too has the same problem but unlike christainity the sects are not too diverse. I don't believe in any religion but i still like religion because it gives people hope and provides internal peace and justice to the helpless, it gives people reason to live and look forward to a better future despite that fact that it is responsible for one of the biggest division in the world today it still is a necessary evil.

All religions were created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few.

huxley:


TO ask who created everything is not to an acknowledge of god, is it. The child id merely asking exploratory questions about nature.

@huxley
Pardon me!! But do I have to explain everything to you.
Cant you see the relationship between curiosity(questioning), knowledge, and belief or conviction. Haven't you ever taken any psychology class?

Curiosity is a desire for knowledge, and out of knowledge comes belief or conviction.

Should I explain further? Okay, I will:
One who is curious of something shows that he desires the knowledge of that particular thing and also that he has the ability to posses that knowledge.
Sometimes questions arise out of a knowledge that we have, slumbering, inside us. By questioning, we awaken this knowledge that is already inside us but only slumbering.
There is no knowledge that questioning did not precede. And their is no belief or conviction that knowledge did not precede.
Therefore, sometimes, for one to question something, means that he already posses the knowledge but have not yet fatformed or deciphered it. By questioning he will gradually decipher the knowledge that already lies in his subconscious mind.

I hope this is clear enough. I can go further if you want.

i think hyperactive minds here need a recess.

rampant, u try o!

justcool:

@huxley
Pardon me!! But do I have to explain everything to you.
Cant you see the relationship between curiosity(questioning), knowledge, and belief or conviction. Haven't you ever taken any psychology class?

Curiosity is a desire for knowledge, and out of knowledge comes belief or conviction.

Should I explain further? Okay, I will:
One who is curious of something shows that he desires the knowledge of that particular thing and also that he has the ability to posses that knowledge.
Sometimes questions arise out of a knowledge that we have, slumbering, inside us. By questioning, we awaken this knowledge that is already inside us but only slumbering.
There is no knowledge that questioning did not precede. And their is no belief or conviction that knowledge did not precede.
Therefore, sometimes, for one to question something, means that he already posses the knowledge but have not yet fatformed or deciphered it. By questioning he will gradually decipher the knowledge that already lies in his subconscious mind.

I hope this is clear enough. I can go further if you want.

Am afraid, I think you are wrong again. Even on the basic definition of knowledge (which is true and justified belief or assertion) you are wrong. So until a "fact" is considered true and justified it is not knowledge.

If on a hunch something or some proposition is turns out right , that does not constitute knowledge. Example, Are there an even or an odd number of stars in the universe? We know one of these position is right, but we have no knowledge about that. None of these position can be justified.

So if a child has a hunch about god, which they will have learnt from their community, that does not constitute knowledge of god.

I see. . . .

IF huxley=theratonia
then theratonia = KAG
ELSE REVEREND??


Maybe I should ask you this question too!
When did you stop practising chrisitianity? I mean how long has it been now?

OlowoTee:

I see. . . .

IF huxley=theratonia
then theratonia = KAG
ELSE REVEREND??


Maybe I should ask you this question too!
When did you stop practising chrisitianity? I mean how long has it been now?

I started having doubts about Christianity from about the age of 15. The last time I went to church on my own volition I was about 13/14, which is also the last time I prayed. That is nearly 25 years ago.

Just like he had mercy on "saul" and found him,Dear Huxley,i do hope he finds you soon !!!

I jst blive he will find him soon.

@mazaje

was that sermon of urs necessary?sorry but i did not read it


@arianne

my dear wetin man pikin go do now


@huxley

I pray that God will find u out soon

On this basis, a child is a theist in the same way that he is an evolutionist, or economist, or priest.

Little anecdote - I have got a four year old son who has good comprehension of things around him for his age.  I have never talk with him about god(s).  He consequently displays no knowledge of god(s) and the word rarely appears in his vocabulary, except when he uses it as a swear-word, as in Oh my god.  I have got nieces and nephews about the same age whose parents are religious.  And as you would expect, at such tender age, their children have learnt the religious language and rituals of their parents.

You have not yet answered how you know that a child is born an atheist. Neither have you given any scientific method by which one can independently verify your postulation. The example you gave with your son is an anecdote. Anecdotes are purely personal and subjective. It is not a research method employed in scientific enquiry. Besides a 4 year old child is not the same as new born. Does your child display knowlege of atheism?

@mazaje:

Correct word

@ rampant
i know you did'nt read it cos you know you definately can'nt provide answers to it and you don't want you faith being questioned and put in doubt. Any way i understand where you stand.

huxley:

I started having doubts about Christianity from about the age of 15. The last time I went to church on my own volition I was about 13/14, which is also the last time I prayed. That is nearly 25 years ago.

I see. . . .but you didn't say anything about my assertion (the "IF" statement). 

Huxley? I pray it be well with you, and may the Lord God reveal Himself to you in due course! But, please, harden not your heart, don't hold too strongly on the philosophies of men .  .  .they are full of doubts as well. 

huxley:

Am afraid, I think you are wrong again. Even on the basic definition of knowledge (which is true and justified belief or assertion) you are wrong. So until a "fact" is considered true and justified it is not knowledge.

If on a hunch something or some proposition is turns out right , that does not constitute knowledge. Example, Are there an even or an odd number of stars in the universe? We know one of these position is right, but we have no knowledge about that. None of these position can be justified.

So if a child has a hunch about god, which they will have learnt from their community, that does not constitute knowledge of god.

@huxely,
The above have absolutely nothing with what I wrote. I never defined knowledge as "True and justified belief," those are your words not mine.
You smartly avoided going into my explanations because you cannot deny the fact that:
(1) At a certain age (usually around 18) every individual begins to seriously question the origin of life and existence, even if the person has never been taught about God.
(2) Curiosity always precedes knowledge. Sometimes curiosity arises from a knowledge deep within the subconscious mind. By questioning one gradually deciphers this knowledge that lies hidden his subconscious mind or the back brain.

Don't avoid issues!

justcool:

@huxley
Pardon me!! But do I have to explain everything to you.
Cant you see the relationship between curiosity(questioning), knowledge, and belief or conviction. Haven't you ever taken any psychology class?

Curiosity is a desire for knowledge, and out of knowledge comes belief or conviction.

Should I explain further? Okay, I will:
One who is curious of something shows that he desires the knowledge of that particular thing and also that he has the ability to posses that knowledge.
Sometimes questions arise out of a knowledge that we have, slumbering, inside us. By questioning, we awaken this knowledge that is already inside us but only slumbering.
There is no knowledge that questioning did not precede. And their is no belief or conviction that knowledge did not precede.
Therefore, sometimes, for one to question something, means that he already posses the knowledge but have not yet fatformed or deciphered it. By questioning he will gradually decipher the knowledge that already lies in his subconscious mind.

I hope this is clear enough. I can go further if you want.

[size=16pt]Word!!!!!!!!!!!![/size]

m_nwankwo:

You have not yet answered how you know that a child is born an atheist. Neither have you given any scientific method by which one can independently verify your postulation. The example you gave with your son is an anecdote. Anecdotes are purely personal and subjective. It is not a research method employed in scientific enquiry. Besides a 4 year old child is not the same as new born. Does your child display knowlege of atheism?

[size=16pt]Word!!!!!!!!!!!![/size]

justcool:

@huxely,
The above have absolutely nothing with what I wrote. I never defined knowledge as "True and justified belief," those are your words not mine.
You smartly avoided going into my explanations because you cannot deny the fact that:
(1) At a certain age (usually around 18) every individual begins to serious question the origin of life and existence, even if the person has never been taught about God.
(2) Curiosity always precedes knowledge. Sometimes curiosity arises from a knowledge deep within the subconscious mind. By questioning one gradually deciphers this knowledge that lies hidden his subconscious mind or the back brain.

Don't avoid issues!

[size=16pt]Word!!!!!!!!!!!![/size]

mazaje:

@ rampant
i know you did'nt read it because you know you definately can'nt provide answers to it and you don't want you faith being questioned and put in doubt. Any way i understand where you stand.

listen mazaje,like i said earlier on,i did not read your reply,why is because i don't even know wats all about,and i wonder why u typed such an essay for me to read anyways,because i can't remember arguing or trying to reach an agreement wt u or sthg else,the last time i checked ,i was asking huxley some qustions and not u,so y stick your nose and write or type all this?

i can't provide any answers to watever u typed because im not interested in it at all,and i don't have time to start reading an essay,and im not going to answer u or provide answers because i don't need to proof anything to u,neither do i owe u any answers,so my dear lock it all up

thank u

rampant:

listen mazaje,like i said earlier on,i did not read your reply,why is because i don't even know wats all about,and i wonder why u typed such an essay for me to read anyways,because i can't remember arguing or trying to reach an agreement wt u or sthg else,the last time i checked ,i was asking huxley some qustions and not u,so y stick your nose and write or type all this?

i can't provide any answers to watever u typed because im not interested in it at all,and i don't have time to start reading an essay,and im not going to answer u or provide answers because i don't need to proof anything to u,neither do i owe u any answers,so my dear lock it all up

thank u

ok baby lets kiss and make up. lots of love

mazaje:

ok baby lets kiss and make up. lots of love

now u is a sweet heart 


but one question: is u an atheist?