Are you looking forward to celebrating christmas? Or are you getting scared as you expect the celebration of christmas? Many people ask: who am I getting a gift? What do I get? Am I buoyant enough? When am I settling the debts I've incurred for christmas?

THE TRUTH ABOUT CHRISTMAS

Do you wish to know the truth about the lessons and the celebrations and worships about christmas? If so, you should have asked these simple questions a time before;

1. Was Jesus christ born on the 25th of december?

2. Who are the wise men? Are they three really?

3. What kind of star lead them to Jesus?

4. What does father christmas have to do with the birth of christ?

5. What is God's reaction to giving or exchanging gifts in the name of celebrating christmas?

We shall try to treat these five questions and by the time we're done, you can make your decisions about celebrating christmas or not.

1. WAS JESUS CHRIST BORN ON THE 25TH OF DECEMBER?

What people do: many people believe christ was born on 25 december and for that, they celebrate his birth known as christmas.

How it all started: the christmas encyclopedia says; "the act of celebrating christ's birth is not in the bible, but abducted from the idol worshipping days in the ancient land of rome for the year ending" this which majorly comes up during cold times from the northern region (winter). The encyclopedia clarifies that this day was spent in worshipping the idol of farm produce and also spent in celebrating the birth of two gods of the sun - sol of the roman and mithra of persian empires.

This changed in the year 350 when this idol worship was brought into christianity. Pope julius the first announced the birthday of christ as december 25. Encyclopedia of religion says " as years went by, christmas was made to replace these idol worship days, thereby illustrating the resurrection of christ (which some thought was sol invictus), the sun picture now became a background behind the heads of holy people in pictures"

What the bible says: the bible did not specifically give the birthday of Jesus, but we can categorically say that it's not dec 25. Why do we say that? The bible tells us that at the time of his birth, shepherds 'lived outside' and they took care of the sheep in the evenings near bethlehem (Luke2:. The cold weather normally starts around october and by the time its getting to december, the cold must have become too much for the lambs to be kept outside, so shepherds especially those near bethlehem keep indoors, their sheeps in the nights.

One should wonder that the early christians who spent time with Jesus during his days of prophethood never celebrated christmas in any day, rather, they celebrate the remembrance of his death, as he ordered in the gospel luke 22:17-20.

But still some might say "what is the big deal in celebrating christ's birth on a day meant for idol worship? The answer is this; 'it is very bad in the sight of God' check john 4:23


2. WHO ARE THE WISE MEN? ARE THEY THREE REALLY?

What people do: people sometimes illustrate how the three wise men were lead by the stars to Jesus in the manger, presenting him gifts and some even say the shepherds were present.

How it all started: the christmas encyclopedia says, 'aside a few explanation, given by the bible about the wise men, every other story about the wise men is a work of fiction"

What the bible says: the bible never told us the number of the wise men that went to Jesus, it is possible they were two, three or more, although the bible tagged them as 'wise men'. The word used for them in the original language used in writing the bible is 'magoi' which may mean 'astrologers' or herbalists and the bible frowns at these, check deuteronomy 18:10-12. Because they came from a very far place (east) they were late and didn't meet Jesus at his birthplace. So it is possible they had to search some more before meeting ' the young child and his mother' matthew 2:11.

3. WHAT KIND OF STAR LEAD THEM TO JESUS?

What did star did tells us what kind of star it is. It didn't lead them to bthlehem directly, it lead them to jerusalem, which got Herold notified of Jesus' birth and so he wanted to find out... This shows that this star isn't an ordinary one. At first misleading the wise men to an enemy before leading them to Jesus meant it was one of satan's cunning ways, therefore it should be stunning to have these stars hanging on the christmas tree.


4. WHAT DOES SANTA CLAUS HAVE TO DO WITH JESUS AND HIS BIRTH?

What people do; in many places, santa claus is said to bring gifts for the kids. Little children often write to him requesting gifts. Transferred history has it that some extra-ordinary being produces those gifts from the far south, where he abodes.

How it all started: what people believe is that the tales of santa claus started from a bishop in ancient turkey known as holy nicholas. The christmas encyclopedia says, "it is almost fact that everything about holy nicholas is fictional". It is possible that the name santa claus known as father christmas was coined from the word "sinkterklaas" a name given to holy nicholas in dutch. This shows that santa claus has nothing to do with christmas or Jesus christ.

What the bible says: "therefore, putting away falsehood, let everyone speak the truth with his neighbour, for we are members of one another" ephessians 4:25. The bible also says, "love and say the truth from the bottom of your heart" zachariah 8:19 and so on...

Is it not bashful that the period many people claim to spend exhaulting Jesus is actually spent in deceiving the young kids and the old alike?


5. WHAT IS GOD'S REACTION TO EXCHANGING GIFTS AND CELEBRATING DURING CHRISTMAS?

What people do: the very special thing about christmas is that it is when people share the most with themselves, gifts and celebration.

How the act started: the worship of the idol saturn in the ancient roman empire starts on dec 17 and ends on dec 24 and this is when they exchange so many gifts just like christmas, after which they celebrate the first day of the month of janus (first of january/ new year) which also lasts for about three days. Which means the celebrations are somewhat interwoven.

What the bible says: happiness and sharing is part of the characteristics of true worship. The bible says, "be filled with happiness and shout with joy" psalm 32:11

The kind of sharing pointed at in the bible is not that which is particular to a specific race or religion of a festival.saying the truth, God blesses this kind of sharing, not that of the other way round.

IT IS PURE DECEPTION

If we look into the concept of celebrating christmas compared to what the bible says, most of these acts have their origin from pagan ways of worship, while some are just opposite of what the bible teaches. This shows that, saying christmas is a christian celebration is baseless. How was christmas brought into christianity? Like the bible has fore-told, lots of false teachers arise thousands of years after christ's death (2 timothy 4:3,4) their thought was to find a way of attracting the unbelievers to christianity and not how to preach the true word. That is why they brought different pagan ways of worship into christianity.

The bible warns that false teacgers like that will deceive you with such false acts, but for them, judgement isn't far and their punishment slumbers not (2 peter 2:1-3). With great respect do we Jehovah's witnesses bring forth these words and other words from the bible and are sure it is the true word of God. Therefore we don't participate in false practices and false celebrations. Does this make us forfeit our joy? NO...but as we see it, we are sure that the bible lessons brings forth freedom.

My personal translation From the yoruba version of jehovah witnesses' 'AWAKE magazine january-march 2011' with a very few of my addition. Please do forgive my flaws and I hope you had a nice read and have been able to make your decisions

jehovah witnesses!
choi ! u ppl, honestly go get a laif!

no one ever said xmas is biblical nah, we all knw twas a roman emperor wu changed a pagan worshp to a xtian worshp of christ birthday
and dat,2 me,christ neva would detest

so pls hld ur peace

It may be laughable that many people don't know about these things, hence celebrating in ignorance, but now I think it is really pathetic you claim to be aware of all these and still choose to practise anyway.

I'm not a christian anyway, your jehovah witness brethren are the ones against it.

golpen: It may be laughable that many people don't know about these things, hence celebrating in ignorance, but now I think it is really pathetic you claim to be aware of all these and still choose to practise anyway.

I'm not a christian anyway, your jehovah witness brethren are the ones against it.

Another obsession with christainity.
1. What do u stand to gain with d above?
2. Don't u think u shld be ashamed of urself by copying from d work of a 'christain' orgnization to make claims that u dnt understand urself?
3. Majority of what u wrote there r falsehood which i do not expect u to understand.

Mintayo:
Another obsession with christainity.

Why should I be obsessed with a religion that don't bother me an inch?..

1. What do u stand to gain with d above?

1. What I stand to gain is educating my fellow muslim brethren who might not be readily aware of these things, hence celebrating xmas just like those families in japan. And that is why you aren't reading it outside of this islam section. So who's obsessed about which religion

2. Don't u think u shld be ashamed of urself by copying from d work of a 'christain' orgnization to make claims that u dnt understand urself?

I think you should be ashamed because this is from a fellow piece and all you do is insult in deep surprising
frustration. Mind you, I and others reading it can read and understand. Maybe unlike you

3. Majority of what u wrote there r falsehood which i do not expect u to understand.

Did I hear you say MAJORITY? Let me remind you that it means that some of them aren't falsehood, but imagine a shameless you blabbing only. What real men do is prove them wrong with your opinions. But maybe I don't need that anyway. It was for my fellow muslims, you may choose to tell your xtian friends and JWs that it's all false, ot you may still choose to stand afar from the points and insult.

Col. 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Col. 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Col. 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
Col. 2:21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
Col. 2:22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
Col. 2:23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence...
.
I pray you understand the above...you are just being ignorant.
If u care to know,u can read Colosians 2:6-23.
We are christains not because we are subject to a day,time or hour,but because we believe and accept JESUS as our LORD and SAVIOUR,and when u have Jesus,you have dominion over all things,u cannot be judge by man or things that are judging man...in Christ everything is complete,you are nt under any man's authority,u cannot be condemned by any man or anything.
I bet when Jesus said "He is the Lord over the Sabbath",i am sure u either dnt knw what he meant or u v another meaning for it.
I will leave u with this...
NL is owned by Seun,who is an 'athiest'...and yet you guys have a 'home' here and uses NL well,shldnt that b an haram?(following d same logic as ur christmas day accusation).
Enjoy your day.

Mintayo: Col. 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Col. 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Col. 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
Col. 2:21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
Col. 2:22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
Col. 2:23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence...

Stop disturbing me jare Mr memory verse... If all these above gives you the license to drink alcohol or better still, become a cannibal, then you can go ahead, since such regulations bla bla bla... Safe it to yourself or attack the JWs in your area.

I pray you understand the above...you are just being ignorant.
If u care to know,u can read Colosians 2:6-23.
We are christains not because we are subject to a day,time or hour,but because we believe and accept JESUS as our LORD and SAVIOUR,and when u have Jesus,you have dominion over all things,u cannot be judge by man or things that are judging man...in Christ everything is complete,you are nt under any man's authority,u cannot be condemned by any man or anything.
I bet when Jesus said "He is the Lord over the Sabbath",i am sure u either dnt knw what he meant or u v another meaning for it.
I will leave u with this...
NL is owned by Seun,who is an 'athiest'...and yet you guys have a 'home' here and uses NL well,shldnt that b an haram?(following d same logic as ur christmas day accusation).
Enjoy your day.

Islam does not teach hostility, if what is being practised is within its limitations. If you give birth for instance, I can come pay you a visit. I can eat your food, if it is that which is lawful for me islamically and I can help you as well as you can help me, if it goes within the confinement. Therefore, NL is not haram because the owner is a non-muslim. An example of what could make it haram is if it is an indecency site, or plays hostility against islam, like prohibiting islamic words, so get it straight. Christmas is against islamic confinement and so isn't lawful according to your fellow JW christians.

golpen:

Stop disturbing me jare Mr memory verse... If all these above gives you the license to drink alcohol or better still, become a cannibal, then you can go ahead, since such regulations bla bla bla... Safe it to yourself or attack the JWs in your area.

Like i said,i do not expect u to understand.
Btw,there is a lot of similarities btw u guys and JW,so i am not surprised.

Islam does not teach hostility, if what is being practised is within its limitations. If you give birth for instance, I can come pay you a visit. I can eat your food, if it is that which is lawful for me islamically and I can help you as well as you can help me, if it goes within the confinement. Therefore, NL is not haram because the owner is a non-muslim. An example of what could make it haram is if it is an indecency site, or plays hostility against islam, like prohibiting islamic words, so get it straight. Christmas is against islamic confinement and so isn't lawful according to your fellow JW christians.

Now u r talking@d bolded,i can see what is 'eating' you now.
Enjoy ur night.
*unfollow thread*

Mintayo:
Like i said,i do not expect u to understand.
Btw,there is a lot of similarities btw u guys and JW,so i am not surprised.

It still remains that they are christians like you are, so you should be surprised.

Now u r talking@d bolded,i can see what is 'eating' you now.
Enjoy ur night.
*unfollow thread*

And that is why I've tried to inform my brothers, which is what ate you all up thanks for following the thread.

@ golpen

It is true Jesus didn't tell us to celebrate his birthday. It is not compulsory somebody orders his people to celebrate his birthday before they do it after him. We do it to appreciate him, not out of command.

It also could be true that he was not born in december 25. This is not enough to condemn celebration of chrismas. It is nothing wrong choosing a day by general consensus to celebrate him. I have these questions for you:

You linked christmas celebration to worship of idol. How was that idol worshiped and how is chrismas celebrated?
Is it the same?

How do eating and drinking, giving gifts and praising Jesus amount to worship of idol?

cleanvessel: @ golpen

It is true Jesus didn't tell us to celebrate his birthday. It is not compulsory somebody orders his people to celebrate his birthday before they do it after him. We do it to appreciate him, not out of command.

So celebrating a birthday you don't even know when, is your only way of appreciating Jesus? Do you even know the meaning of the word 'mas' that is the suffix in 'christmas'? Maybe you should find out.

It also could be true that he was not born in december 25. This is not enough to condemn celebration of christmas. It is nothing wrong choosing a day by general consensus to celebrate him. I have these questions for you:

Would you have been happy if you found out that by your parents' consensus, your birthday till now have been celebrated on a wrong date? Especially on a day affiliated with idol worship. My brother, if it is enough, there are some other things that made it even worse.

You linked christmas celebration to worship of idol. How was that idol worshiped and how is chrismas celebrated?
Is it the same?

I didn't link it, the pope did. The papalcy which some of your fellow pentecosts and anglicans detest. And to your question, in fact, there are just some acts that are the same between both. Like sharing gifts is a core part of the idol celebration then, please read the OPs.

How do eating and drinking, giving gifts and praising Jesus amount to worship of idol?

[/quote]

Answer above...thanks.

golpen:

So celebrating a birthday you don't even know when, is your only way of appreciating Jesus? Do you even know the meaning of the word 'mas' that is the suffix in 'christmas'? Maybe you should find out.



Would you have been happy if you found out that by your parents' consensus, your birthday till now have been celebrated on a wrong date? Especially on a day affiliated with idol worship. My brother, if it is enough, there are some other things that made it even worse.



I didn't link it, the pope did. The papalcy which some of your fellow pentecosts and anglicans detest. And to your question, in fact, there are just some acts that are the same between both. Like sharing gifts is a core part of the idol celebration then, please read the OPs.

How do eating and drinking, giving gifts and praising Jesus amount to worship of idol?



Answer above...thanks.

I put it to you that giving gifts at chrismas is not an act of idol worship in any way. Gift giving is Godly and not satanic.

Besides, when muslims kill rams and share them as gifts to their fellows or anyone, is that an act of idol worship?

''Mars'' is the Sun god not ''Mas''. Do you confuse them with each other? Mars is 'worshiped' but Chrismas is not a worship but a celebration. We don't worship chrismas, we celebrate it appreciating the Lord Jesus. I believe you know the difference between worship and celebration.

People offer sacrifices to idols (call it gifts if you like). But at chrismas, christians give gifts to their fellow humans, a demonstration of love.

Now is gifts giving to fellow humans at chrismas and offering sacrifice to idol(s) the same? Are the humans given gifts the idols?

Thank God you agree it's not too pretty to celebrate ones bday on a wrong date. I think we're just on the remaining.

I didn't say sharing gifts is satanic. You asked for similarities between how they celebrated and worshipped their gods then and christmas now and part of it is sharing gifts, which was intentionally added to christmas in other to blend up. Imagine, sharing gifts is not a core part last supper, then why christmas?

Muslims kill those rams as directed by God (the lord of the worlds) in imitation of prophet Abraham (as you xtians also agree that he's an epitome of faith). We share the meat amonsgt ourselves and not to any god, all because HE ordered it and ewe have a proof for it. What is the proof for christmas in christianity? It is a fabrication.

Please make your findings about the word. You don't need to be told everything. Get out of the ring.

Gift giving at christmas is an imitation of the pagan ways and for that it is falsehood. Thanks.

I'm tired of unending arguments please.

golpen: Thank God you agree it's not too pretty to celebrate ones bday on a wrong date. I think we're just on the remaining.

I didn't say sharing gifts is satanic. You asked for similarities between how they celebrated and worshipped their gods then and christmas now and part of it is sharing gifts, which was intentionally added to christmas in other to blend up. Imagine, sharing gifts is not a core part last supper, then why christmas?

Muslims kill those rams as directed by God (the lord of the worlds) in imitation of prophet Abraham (as you xtians also agree that he's an epitome of faith). We share the meat amonsgt ourselves and not to any god, all because HE ordered it and ewe have a proof for it. What is the proof for christmas in christianity? It is a fabrication.

Please make your findings about the word. You don't need to be told everything. Get out of the ring.

Gift giving at christmas is an imitation of the pagan ways and for that it is falsehood. Thanks.

I'm tired of unending arguments please.

I never told you I agreed that birthday cannot be celebrated on a day generally agreed by the people. The beauty of christianity is that the christians are in constant contact with Jesus. He hears us and we hear him. If he is displeased with the way we do christmas, he would have told us.

I still cannot understand why you keep saying the good act of giving gifts originated from the pagans. Even Jesus is a gift by God to the world and he gave himself to the world. By your claim, you are saying paganism is good.

Abraham never celebrated ''Ileya'' in his lifetime as muslims do. No record of such festival in the land of Istrael and Abraham was not an Arabian. He lived and died in Istrael. Where was he celebrating it? 'Ileya' is a lie fabricated against Abraham.

You asked for argument by your thread and I wonder why you get tired so soon. You should not oppose some people doings and not ready for defence, which you call argument.

Repeating the same thing,bro golpen run ooo

lanrexlan: Repeating the same thing,bro golpen run ooo

Run for the truth? What an advice.

cleanvessel:

I never told you I agreed that birthday cannot be celebrated on a day generally agreed by the people. The beauty of christianity is that the christians are in constant contact with Jesus. He hears us and we hear him. If he is displeased with the way we do christmas, he would have told us.

I still cannot understand why you keep saying the good act of giving gifts originated from the pagans. Even Jesus is a gift by God to the world and he gave himself to the world. By your claim, you are saying paganism is good.

Abraham never celebrated ''Ileya'' in his lifetime as muslims do. No record of such festival in the land of Istrael and Abraham was not an Arabian. He lived and died in Istrael. Where was he celebrating it? 'Ileya' is a lie fabricated against Abraham.

You asked for argument by your thread and I wonder why you get tired so soon. You should not oppose some people doings and not ready for defence, which you call argument.

I would have posted it in your section if I ever asked for an argument with this thread. I have stated my aim in one of my earlier posts and I think those who know how to get it, got it right. I'm not even the one opposing it right now, but a sect of your christian religion is, so I don't deserve the aggression. You have them as your neighbours and you can choose to talk it out with them.

I'm not ready to argue with you on ileya because its none of your business, you only just want to quench your thirst for arguments and like I said, I'm not up for such.

lanrexlan: Repeating the same thing,bro golpen run ooo

No mind them jare. They've not been able to prove the OP wrong. All they want is pointless arguments.

golpen:


I would have posted it in your section if I ever asked for an argument with this thread. I have stated my aim in one of my earlier posts and I think those who know how to get it, got it right. I'm not even the one opposing it right now, but a sect of your christian religion is, so I don't deserve the aggression. You have them as your neighbours and you can choose to talk it out with them.

I'm not ready to argue with you on ileya because its none of your business, you only just want to quench your thirst for arguments and like I said, I'm not up for such.

Thank God you didn't run as advised.

I wonder too what your business is with chrismas. If your reason for the thread is not subjective, why didn't you post it in a section where the people concerned would learn?

I put it to you that 'ileya' was not instituted by God as it was not practiced by Abraham and not done anywhere before Muhammad. It has no Godly source.

cleanvessel:

Thank God you didn't run as advised.

I wonder too what your business is with christmas. If your reason for the thread is not subjective, why didn't you post it in a section where the people concerned would learn?

My business is educating fellow muslims who may not know all these views, so that they may be enlightened and this is the section where I feel my muslim people concerned have lear
nt.

I put it to you that 'ileya' was not instituted by God as it was not practiced by Abraham and not done anywhere before Muhammad. It has no Godly source.

Thank you if you warn your people against ileya, I have no problem. It is your choice and I think I have the same right.

golpen:

My business is educating fellow muslims who may not know all these views, so that they may be enlightened and this is the section where I feel my muslim people concerned have lear
nt.



Thank you if you warn your people against ileya, I have no problem. It is your choice and I think I have the same right.

So it is not in islam to preach to people of other faith? How do you spread islam? By swords?

cleanvessel:

So it is not in islam to preach to people of other faith? How do you spread islam? By swords?

Islam is the world's fastest growing religion in the world of today. You may love to ask the converts how they got to be muslims. And one thing why they are muslims is because we don't constitute nuisance in the name of preaching.

golpen:

Islam is the world's fastest growing religion in the world of today. You may love to ask the converts how they got to be muslims. And one thing why they are muslims is because we don't constitute nuisance in the name of preaching.

You are a funny type. Muslims constitute more than nuisance, they constitute serious DANGER. Can't you see what is happening all over the world?

Those who convert to islam without anyone preached to them see it as an opportunity to carry out their evil intentions of killing and destroying. If not, under what cover do you kill and destroy without a cause?

Recently, some jihadists went to shopping centres in Kenya and killed anyone who could not recite quranic verses. Which category of people do you think that religion will attract, the wicked or the peaceful? The more islam grows the more the world is getting into DANGER because of the source of the religion. No wonder islamic terrorist groups are all over the world.

You wouldn't agree with me that muslims are doing so little in the area of evangelism and that is why the christians are nuisance to you because of their persistent preachings here and there, and yet islam is the fastest growing religion, according to you. How and why?

This situation confirms the truth that minority are always on the side of God, like it happened in the time of Noah. All approved prophets of God were always with very few people behind them. By implication few people are always on the side of God.

You should be afraid of a religion that grows without evangelism. Who preached to them? God does not preach to man, He uses humans to do the preaching. But a situation where people convert to a religion without preaching, something that is attractive to human fleshy nature (nature of sin), human wicked nature must be in that religion.

I'm very sorry, but your arguments are not mostly mature ones and as much as I love to have to have dialogues, I blame myself at times for engaging people like you.

Imagine the topic of the thread " talk about xmas " and here you've talked about at least two other different things swaying away from the topic and you think I'll be goon like you and follow as you drawn in ignorance.

I'm sorry I'm out of this with you...thanks.

golpen: I'm very sorry, but your arguments are not mostly mature ones and as much as I love to have to have dialogues, I blame myself at times for engaging people like you.

Imagine the topic of the thread " talk about xmas " and here you've talked about at least two other different things swaying away from the topic and you think I'll be goon like you and follow as you drawn in ignorance.

I'm sorry I'm out of this with you...thanks.

I know you have no answer hence your excuse. If you have got anything to debunk the post, typical of you, you will not run away under any cover. But it does not pay, spiritually speaking to see the truth and look away from it. God have mercy on you.

You should be afraid of a religion that grows without evangelism. Who preached to them? God does not preach to man, He uses humans to do the preaching. But a situation where people convert to a religion without preaching, something that is attractive to human fleshy nature (nature of sin), human wicked nature must be in that religion.

True words my brother echoing Romans 10:14-15

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

proo212:

True words my brother echoing Romans 10:14-15

May God increase your anointing in Jesus name.

cleanvessel:

I never told you I agreed that birthday cannot be celebrated on a day generally agreed by the people. The beauty of christianity is that the christians are in constant contact with Jesus. He hears us and we hear him. If he is displeased with the way we do christmas, he would have told us.

I still cannot understand why you keep saying the good act of giving gifts originated from the pagans. Even Jesus is a gift by God to the world and he gave himself to the world. By your claim, you are saying paganism is good.

Abraham never celebrated ''Ileya'' in his lifetime as muslims do. No record of such festival in the land of Istrael and Abraham was not an Arabian. He lived and died in Istrael. Where was he celebrating it? 'Ileya' is a lie fabricated against Abraham.

You asked for argument by your thread and I wonder why you get tired so soon. You should not oppose some people doings and not ready for defence, which you call argument.

You said Jesus hear you and you hear him that if he doesnt lik the way xmas is been celebrated he would have told you....

Arr you sayin Jesus doesnt communicate with Pastor Kumuyi not to warn his member away from xmas?

cleanvessel:

I never told you I agreed that birthday cannot be celebrated on a day generally agreed by the people. The beauty of christianity is that the christians are in constant contact with Jesus. He hears us and we hear him. If he is displeased with the way we do christmas, he would have told us.

I still cannot understand why you keep saying the good act of giving gifts originated from the pagans. Even Jesus is a gift by God to the world and he gave himself to the world. By your claim, you are saying paganism is good.

Abraham never celebrated ''Ileya'' in his lifetime as muslims do. No record of such festival in the land of Istrael and Abraham was not an Arabian. He lived and died in Istrael. Where was he celebrating it? 'Ileya' is a lie fabricated against Abraham.

You asked for argument by your thread and I wonder why you get tired so soon. You should not oppose some people doings and not ready for defence, which you call argument.

i can see u dont undastand anything abraham was more arab dan israel and ileya is in d bible the killing of a ram instead of abraham son so ur point is baseless