OMG not that word! id rather ''healthy intellectual conversation''? Never, that word 'chat'. I detest that verb.

@ Nutter

isn't Peter Odili ikwerre?

if he is and the ikwerre are igbo (as you claim for p/h), why is he being seen as a 'south-south' candidate for the presidency not an igbo candidate?

like i said earlier, some of my igbo brothers (a la Ojukwu) will always try to use the N-D minorities when it suits them, thats why they wanted to include the

ND as part of the Biafra republic, but when it comes to other issures, they (e.g ikwerre) are different and not really igbo.

debosky:

@ Nutter

isn't Peter Odili ikwerre?

if he is and the ikwerre are igbo (as you claim for p/h), why is he being seen as a 'south-south' candidate for the presidency not an igbo candidate?

like i said earlier, some of my igbo brothers (a la Ojukwu) will always try to use the N-D minorities when it suits them, thats why they wanted to include the

ND as part of the Biafra republic, but when it comes to other issures, they (e.g ikwerre) are different and not really igbo.

isn't Peter Odili ikwerre? Yes, and?

if he is and the ikwerre are igbo (as you claim for p/h) - It’s not a question of me trying to imbue the Ikwerre with Igbo qualities. Historically and traditionally, the Ikwerre are Igbo. It’s as simple as that really.

why is he being seen as a 'south-south' candidate for the presidency not an igbo candidate? - Did you really mean to ask this question? Do I really need to remind you that the zones are artificial creations? Surely you should know this.

like i said earlier, some of my igbo brothers (a la Ojukwu) – Ojukwu is your brother?

will always try to use the N-D minorities when it suits them, thats why they wanted to include the ND as part of the Biafra republic, - I don’t know where you got your own history of the war. I suggest you do a bit more reading. The best place to start is the accounts of foreign journalists who were on the ground even before hostilities broke out. You want an unbiased report? You don't want to take my word for it? Then, read magazines like TIME. You will find that those you have categorised as ‘Niger Delta Minorities’ joined Biafra willingly. They too were massacred ALL OVER Nigeria. Yes, it wasn’t only in the North. Even Yorubaland, your Yorubaland, was thirsty for their blood.

but when it comes to other issures, they (e.g ikwerre) are different and not really igbo. – Issues such as what? It was the Ikwerre who tried to distance themselves from their Igbo brothers (and not the other way round) after the war because they were afraid of reprisal attacks. They were afraid of marginalisation (yeah, the Nigerian government was/is nasty that way). A lot of good that has done them so far.


My dear debosky, the truth, if you are prepared to accept it, is you have not taken the time to find out the reason(s) behind the way things are for yourself. You have chosen instead to swallow concocted lies that have made the rounds since the end of the war. Do some reading for yourself. Make the effort. That is what scholarship is all about.

Labelle:
uh,  nutter, yahoo id ? me seeks conversation with thy.

What would be the thrust of this great conversation?

Nutter i regard all nigerians as my brthers/sisters, i am not in the same boat as that Afeni fellow.(u should have met him on other threads by now)

I am in no way supporting/justifying any side in the civil war.

even if the zones are artificial creations, the igbo heirarchy or 'ohaneze' are still shouting from the rooftops to have a 'true igbo' president, and that will

mean

one coming from enugu, imo, ebonyi, anambra or abia. so the 'core' igbo people won't accept odili (just an example by the way) as an igbo president.

i am yet to see the evidence of the minorities joining willingly, since it was igbo massacres in the north that finally triggered off the secession. (please send me links if you have them)

people were killed in the war, people from all zones, i do not and cannot condone the killing of anyone, for whatever reason.

i haven't accepted any conconcted lies as you put it, i am seeking out the truth, i am willing to be educated by your immensely more knowledgable self.

ps if they want to be separate as you put it, why not let them be? the itshekiri and bini have yoruba roots/affiliations but still stand as groups on their own.

Some interesting conversation in here. Our paths have never crossed, Chxta, but I believe you'd have a rethink about the unity of this country very soon. Right now, I've got a lot to attend to.

I was actually ready to argue a little this morning, then I saw this, now I am too depressed to think straight. I need a drink.

@Chxta,

Time to put up a defence for your Nigeria. That is the title of this thread – your thread. Yesterday you were too busy. Today, Nzeribe has upset you. At this rate, tomorrow you’d tell us that your wife didn’t cook your favourite meal, or your salary wasn’t paid, or your pet ate your response, or this same pet died, or you drank stout instead of ogogoro, or something or other. Mr Man, time to man your battle-station.

When you finally get round to putting a defence together, please also explain to us why YOU, a diehard One Nigeria advocate whose belief in Nigeria is, according to you, ‘firm and unshakeable’, is (not so secretly) nursing the intention of assassinating a serving Nigerian Senator. A senator wholly recognised by the very country you have chosen to defend. Is that not treasonous on very many levels? Are you (with your current state of mind) thus not a greater danger to the Nigerian State than people like me who advocate a peaceful separation? I’ll leave you to mull over that for a moment.


@debosky

Mate, I'll get back to you as soon as I can find the time. Had to set Chxta straight first.

@ nuter, why dont u go to your own country? which doesn't exist i might add

Naija do not need this kind of defence.What me thinks Naija need is worthy ambassadors in wherever they find themseves.The country is greater than than 2/3 people arguing to see whose IQ is higher.It is a known fact that people make their conclusions first before looking for arguments to support it.This is an argument that will not be won but rather all the participants will all lose
But naija will win.ONE NIGERIA.
To keep naija one is a task that must be done.
Having said that,i still think there is something inherently wrong with naija.Do not ask me cos i don't know.

@Debosky,

You seek the truth and that is commendable. However, mine is not a quest to acquire converts as some may mischievously choose to believe. The facts sell themselves. I am only interested in telling the truth of the matter.


Actually, even though Ohaneze has got its fingers soiled on more than one occasion and all discerning Igbo have since distanced themselves from the body, in fairness, I must state that Ohaneze’s position is one where they advocate a South-East or South-South Presidency. This position is acceptable to most Igbo. Don’t forget that Joseph Achuzia served as Secretary-General of Ohaneze. Achuzia is from Delta State in today’s South-South.


Before the war, the ‘Igboness’ of the Ikwerre and those in Delta was never in question. That in itself goes to show you the deliberate attempt to ensure confusion reigned among the Igbo post-war. For instance, Jubril Aminu, former Petroleum Minister and core Northerner from Adamawa State, said recently about the clamour for a South-South Presidency:


“I don’t like the way they are making their case because it doesn’t sell, I’m sorry to say I have so many brothers and sisters there. It doesn’t sound too logical to me that they want the presidency. South-South is trying to say that it has never been in the presidency. But, that is if you talk about the six geo-political zones. The South-South was part of the Eastern region and their son Ironsi, ruled Nigeria. Therefore, they cannot say they have not had anybody from 1914 because there was no South-South in 1959. They were part of the Eastern region and even during Biafra; they were doing very well. General Effiong was commander number 2 to Ojukwu. Graham-Douglas was Attorney General. Chief Akpan was secretary to government. So they were involved."

http://sunnewsonline.com/webpages/news/national/2006/june/25/national-25-06-2006-001.htm


If the Ikwerre choose to leave the greater Igbo family out of a genuine need for autonomy and not out of fear of reprisals, I’d be one of those firmly in support of the move – sad as that would make me. I wrote an article addressing this very issue last year. However, there remains a difference between what the regular Ikwerre thinks and what their current ‘leaders’ spout. In the same way, there remains a difference between what the Ikwerre say out of fear and what they’d say otherwise.


In truth, this whole South-South brouhaha is just one in a number of measures designed to carve-up Igboland and destroy the Igbo. This strategy is ideological - IF YOU CANNOT DESTROY THE IGBO BECAUSE THEY ARE IGBO, STOP THE IGBO FROM FEELING IGBO. Others of a financial nature (such as the 20 Pounds pay-off for the Igbo regardless of how much they had in banks – a policy championed by Awolowo) were also conducted and don’t even get me started on the ‘abandoned properties’ saga.


The best thing to do (if you really want to know more) is get to a search engine and experiment with a variety of related search criteria. You will find an abundance of information on the war and the reasons that led to it. You will find out about the massacre of Easterners (not just the Igbo) in Northern cities and others like Warri, Sapele, Agbor, Benue and Lagos. You will find that Ojukwu begged Nigerian officials to do something about these killings. You will find that affected Easterners returned to these cities after assurances of their safety were received. You will find that another round of killings was unleashed on these returnees. You will find that 30-50,000 men, women and children were killed. You will find that an even greater number had their limbs chopped off. You will find that the bellies of pregnant women were sliced open and their unborn babies beheaded. You will find that many headless bodies were put on trains and sent to the East. You will find that all this happened while policeman and soldiers either stood by and watched, or fully participated in these despicable acts. You will find out about the Aburi Accord (which would have prevented a full-scale war) that the Nigerian Government signed-up to but later ignored. You will find out about all the things Nigeria doesn’t want you to. Yes, you will find out the truth about the lie that Nigeria is.


When you come to the point where you have all the facts ordered at your fingertips, then perhaps you will understand my anger at a country which people like me gave up on, long after she gave up on us.

madlawyer1:

@ nuter, why don't u go to your own country? which doesn't exist i might add

Your sentences cancel each other out, my dear man. You are therefore yet to make a point.

@All concerned,

Please see below portions of an article written by an Ikwerre son (Okachukwu Dibia) yesterday. If you won’t take my word, what reason have you not to take his?


"In considering the question of identity, there is a spiritual aspect which a lot of people tend to ignore. We all were created by God, and none of us had the luxury of choosing our race or tribe before we were born. Whatever race or tribe we are born into is the wish of the all-knowing supreme God. To deny our God-given identity because of some earthly politics is at best an insult to God who created us and made us who we are in the first place. How funny or stupid would it be to see a Blackman claiming not to be black? What we the Ikwerre have been doing is no different from such a scenario. In language, culture (new yam festival) or even as our names readily testifies the Ikwerre could be no other people but Igbo. If the British colonialists had decided to carve out of what we now know as Nigeria, ethnically homogenous nations as is the pattern in Europe, no doubt the Ikwerre would have been part of the Igbo country."


"Common sense indicates that the Ikwerre's would be better off by aligning with the Igbo family who fortunately constitute a majority bloc in Nigeria. Things may not be too rosy for the Igbo at the moment because of the hangover of the civil war, but no condition is permanent and sooner rather than later the Igbo would have to be given their rightful place, which is a sine qua non for Nigeria's very survival. Nigeria is a nation beset with the continuing fear of disintegration. Eventually the overwhelming need to redress the Nigerian quagmire to guarantee her survival and the beginning of true nationhood will compel a honest restructuring of the Nigerian plate in every sphere, which would naturally see the Igbo regain their influence. Without aligning with the larger Igbo family, the Ikwerre can never aspire to play any prominent role in national politics now or in the future."


"I believe the time has come for a new thinking among the Ikwerre leadership concerning our identity. It is obvious that whatever the leadership sought to achieve by the needless, shameful and undignified identity sham, the reverse has clearly been the case. "


"Ironically even those agents of the Nigerian state who may have encouraged the identity crisis, though they may have celebrated, because it serves their purpose, yet they will still not trust the average Ikwerreman, because simply put, nobody will trust a man who denies his ancestry. "It is better to deal with a trustworthy enemy, than an untrustworthy friend".


Full article can be found at: http://allafrica.com/stories/200606290102.html


Chxta, please take note and stop promoting division within the Igbo Nation.

Chxta, the irony of this thread is that your defense of Nigeria isn't much of a defense afterall. In fact, your defense actually does more to damage your point of view.

Make no mistake, when the revolution begins, people like you would be discarded. For the greater good, of course.

Yall got too much time on ur hands!! i'm for one nigeria under God. we got lots of problem in nigeria dat needs solving. yall need to channel ur energy into finding wayz to better the education sytsem, roads, electricity and so on. Those are essential stuff that needs immediate attention!!
i'm so fricking tired of seeing nigerians say they hate nigeria. if you hate nigeria then just shut up and go to another country and leave the lovers of Nigeria alone in peace to battle our problems.

Shut up, damygurl. Didn't your parents ever tell you not to talk when the elders are talking. You are lucky you are hiding beyond the internet because if your father found out what nonsense you have just said, you would be dealt a dirty slap.

aight i know in dat tiny brain of urs dat was meant as a joke but i don't like peeps talking about my parents. where d elders at? i know u not refering to urself as an elder!!! my dad has never slapped me b4 and he' not gon start now jus cuz i'm trying to talk some sense into a lil boi!!!

As for your "I don't like people talking about my parents," cry me a river.

And you, the one that lacks knowledge in Nigerian current events and past history, feel that you are capable of talking some sense into me?

Get real, little girl. You really should run along and play with barbie or watever it is that you kids fancy these days. This is no place for a novice such as yourself. Come back when you are politically aware. Right now, you are just spouting the crap that Obasonjo and all the other one Nigerian degenerates want you to believe.

You are, for the time being, excused from being responsible for whatever your little head comes up with. Enjoy your youth.

Lastly, I am not going to reply to you on this thread because it won't be fair to the author. Good day.

you don't have to reply.

O mo oro so rara!!

i did nigeria history for more dan 6yrs so i think i'm well versed on the important stuff. you need to stop smoking crack because it's messing with your brain. You are 19 not 90!!!!. if you chant it more dan 20 times maybe you will remember.
Just bcuz you still play with Barbie don't mean i do. what other dolls you got? you want to swap stories with my lil cousin. she's a a doll collector.
FYI i don't give a crap about obasanjo don't really see any big improvement since he was president. i make my own conclusion about stuff and Not everybody shares your small head size!
Enjoy your youth while you still got a little bit of it left because before you know it you got all this wrinkes from hating and carrying all the big burdens you got. Once again you are a teenager yourself stop acting like a 90yrs old wannabe.

And to think Afeni is 19 years old. I wonder.

Afeni, are you really 19? Long time sha.

@Ono abi o.
Na wa for this my brothers and sisters o Seniority complex at bliss.

damygurl:

Yall got too much time on your hands!! i'm for one nigeria under God. we got lots of problem in nigeria that needs solving. yall need to channel your energy into finding wayz to better the education sytsem, roads, electricity and so on. Those are essential stuff that needs immediate attention!!
i'm so fricking tired of seeing nigerians say they hate nigeria. if you hate nigeria then just shut up and go to another country and leave the lovers of Nigeria alone in peace to battle our problems.

Yes, our beloved country has problems that still need sorting out but if all we do to continue to focus all the negatives - and they are aplenty - then it will become increasingly difficult to move forward.

Enough said. Let's close this topic.

Nutter,
 

                    You spell as one of stern Moral rectitude,

                    One  who embraces Raw- writing in its entirety,

                    One who responds pugnaciously to antagonistic remarks only atfer due consideration.

                     Like the skillfull reportage of the poltical journalist , each
post , far from the torny wig of hipocrisy.
   
                      A Titan  of great learning, articulate and armed with trechant critisms et witt.
one who does not take umbrage at uncouth remarks, directed at his person, by those who portary him as imperious.
                   
                     These atrributes somewhat engage my hormrones in countless spasms of excitement, anxiety and curiousity.

                     The only antidote, a consented response.

                     Is not this enough thrust to counter great conversation?

“Now, in reality, the world has paid too great a compliment to critics, and has imagined them to be men of much greater profundity then they really are.” -- Henry Fielding.


@Labelle,

Very kind words all. Unfortunately, I am not a master in the art of ‘compliment handling’. I suppose I really should just take the compliment and say ‘Daalu’. However, I cannot help but hesitate to think it is necessarily deserved. As a consequence, I was successful in my struggle to delineate my ability from your warm-hearted generosity.

Concerning the ‘engagement of your hormones’ and the ‘countless spasms of excitement, anxiety and curiosity’ that have followed thereafter, am I to assume that these represent the humble beginnings of an elaborate mating ritual?

madlawyer1:

Yes, our beloved country has problems that still need sorting out but if all we do to continue to focus all the negatives - and they are aplenty - then it will become increasingly difficult to move forward.

You seem to be oblivious of the fact that it is these very negatives that keep the country from moving forward (in the first place) and not a discussion on them. Problems are never solved (especially at the national level of any country) by ignoring them.

madlawyer1:

Enough said. Let's close this topic.

We hear you loud and clear, Herr Fuhrer!! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!

Nutter

I agree atrocities were committed during the war, as often happens in war situations, i do not condone it either.
I guess its up to the ikwerre to recognise and publicly accept themselves as part of the igbo nation, as well as the larger igbo group welcoming them openly not treating them like poor cousins. I find it oddly baffling that 30 years after the civil war that is still the issue that igbos use to say they have been marginalised. till they get to a point that they begin to organise properly and solve their internal issues,( e.g. the anambra debacle) they might not be taken as serious partners by any of the other geo-political zones or ethnic groupings ( which is necessary for any one candidate to rule Nigeria).

Nigeria has failed everyone - igbo, itshekiri, yoruba, fulani, kanuri, ijaw, etc.

The key is critically examining our failures (which we have all contributed to) and seeking wasys of doing things in a better way for us to move forward.

Afeni:

Shut up, damygurl. Didn't your parents ever tell you not to talk when the elders are talking. You are lucky you are hiding beyond the internet because if your father found out what nonsense you have just said, you would be dealt a dirty slap.

Afeni,

Please don't claim a title you don't have,who made you an Elder? You will have to pay a fine of five goats and two cows  You and damygurl are under age,you both can't buy alcohol yet in America.
The Elders in the House are not making any noise.

www.chxta..com

My yesterday started at 0430 hours. Even though it was a Saturday (I usually wake up very late on Saturdays in order to make up for lost sleep see), I had something that as far as I was concerned had to be attended to.

At 0600, I was on the way to Benin City (my hometown for those who don't know) to see one of my mentors. I arrived in B-Side by 0835 and it was raining giraffes and elephants, but I braved the rain to get to GRA in order to see him.

This fellow that I went to see is/was/has been one of the biggest influences in my life you see. He carried me as a baby (for crying out loud he was the one who baptised me), taught me a lot of history (he is a Professor of History, and an expert in Nigerian history), and taught me Latin (as a teenager I was an altar boy, and he is a Roman Catholic monsignor), and whenever we talk up until today, he insists that we mix the conversation with both Igbo and Latin. That way I don’t get dim on either language since as an Igbo and a Catholic the languages are kind of my heritage A bit high minded if you ask me, but I really appreciate what he has done for me in terms of intellectual capacity, and I have to admit here that I haven’t paid attention to my Latin as I painfully found out yesterday. Left to the old man I would have stayed there all day until I could properly apply parle in a sentence. I am also kind of unhappy that I had to lie to him that I was required for night shift at my office (we don’t do night shift at Itex), but I wanted to be back in Lagos before 1600 so that I would happily watch England getting kicked out of the World Cup with a particular set of England supporters (ain’t I a beefer or something?).

I can bet my head that those of you reading this who attended St. Albert's Catholic Church in the University of Benin or who were students of the faculties of Arts and Social Sciences in the same school by now know who I am talking about.

Now the question becomes “why did you go to Benin to see and talk to a 70+ year old priest?” What sin did you commit that was so great that you had to leave Lagos at such a time to talk to someone in another end of Nigeria?

It wasn’t a sin that made me enter the road so to speak, but an argument; remember all those Chinese movies we used to watch as children? Where the hero of the movie would pick a fight with some bad guy (the boss) and would get soundly whipped? Then he would run back with his tail in between his legs and get properly trained by his master, so he could come back to fight another with the boss again, and this time whip the boss? That was kind of how I felt on Friday when just before I ran off from the office to go and watch that classic between Germany and Argentina, I read through the Politics forum on Nairaland and saw some of the responses to my defence of my fatherland. I just had to go and meet my master to help me come out with a very solid attack that would put an end to the whole brouhaha once and for all.

You see, between himself and my RSM (Sgt. Hassan Abdullahi of blessed memory), these two guys are two of those figures in my life that instilled in me the sense of Nigerianess (is there such a word) that I have, so when I put up a defence of Naija on Nairaland, I was only being true to what I have believed in from childhood. But unlike most times in the past when by the time I lay my points on the ground most of the opposition would turn tail and run (I like to think of myself as a very sound and intellectual speaker when it comes to such issues), this time around I faced solid opposition. The guy that I am facing like me is Igbo and Catholic, but unlike me doesn’t believe in Naija. And he is very intelligent. Knows how to counter any argument even though IMHO he talks based on sentiment, not on hard cold reasoning.

With me on the journey. I carried a printout of all the arguments and counter arguments that we have had on this issue to show the old man. He sat down, and read everything then looked at me as if I was mad!

Father has always had this way of arguing a point. He asks you some questions, and by the time you start answering them, you would begin to see things from his view point. That was how he successfully kept me Catholic back in 1997 when I was in danger of joining up with some Jehovah’s witnesses.

Now to the thrust of the conversation between us (which was briefer than I would have liked since I was in a hurry to run back to Lagos for the sake of the football).

First, a lot of the Igbo in the argument who are on the side of a break up of the country are of the opinion that the problem the Igbo face in Nigeria is from the North. He asked this question: who initiated the 1959 carpet crossing in the Western House of Parliament which effectively introduced ethnic politics into Nigeria?

My answer to that question is Obafemi Awolowo (remember the statement egbe omo Oduduwa).

I then asked him whether it means that the Yoruba are the enemies of the Igbo, and he responded like this: if that is so why how Akintola manage to coexist with Okpara?

I am of the opinion that Awo (with all due respect) was the problem back in 1959, not the Yoruba people. Awo IMHO was a sour loser. And such people are not above playing on ethnic sentiments in order to get what they want.

The next question he asked me was to name the principal actors in the January 1966 coup de tat, both plotters and victims.

The answer to that (and a break down of ethnicity) is this:

Major Kaduna Nzeogwu…Igbo
Major Emmanuel Ifeanjuna…Igbo
Major Chris Anuforo…Igbo
Major Adewale Ademoyega…Yoruba
Major Donatus Okafor…Igbo
Captain Ben Gbulie…Igbo

The above is a list of the principal plotters, while below is a list of principal victims.

Alhaji Sir Abubakar Tafawa Balewa…(Hausa)
Alhaji Sir Ahmadu Bello…(Hausa)
Brig. M. Maimalari…(Hausa)
Chief S. Akintola…(Yoruba)
Chief F. Okotie-Eboh…(Itsekiri)

Notice that the premiers of the East (Chief M. Okpara an Igbo) and Midwest (Chief D. Osadebe, also an Igbo) and the top Igbo military officer (Major-General J.T.U Aguiyi-Ironsi) were unharmed.

When I answered that question, he asked me to put myself in the position of the North. Their brightest lights in both the political sector and the military were killed, and you want them not to assume it was an ethnic coup when Okapra, Osadebe and Aguiyi-Ironsi by some ‘miracle’ escaped assassination. The truth is this: we asked for trouble.

Now let’s move the clock forward to 1970, and the end of the war. He asked me, who supervised the Federal Government scheme to hand every Igboman irrespective of social standing just a mere 20 pounds?

Yes, you got my answer. Obafemi Awolowo again, as Jack Gowon’s minister of finance. But to be fair to both Awolowo and the North, they also supervised a scheme whereby properties belonging to Igbo people in all parts of Nigeria before the war were returned. This scheme was implemented to the letter except in one state, Rivers. In my book, people who hate us would not have returned our things to us. No, they would have used the opportunity to put us down forever. My grandfather was killed during the war, but my uncles got back everything he owned in Kano, not one brick was missing. And according to one of my uncles, Sadiq the caretaker gave them every penny of rent that he collected when from when they took off in a hurry in July 1966, up until they returned in 1971. If the man hated them, he would never have done that.

My friend on this forum always points out that the Ikwerre are Igbo. Yes, they claimed to be Igbo up until the war, but let us accept for the sake of this argument that they are Igbo, remember that in 1970, the Ikwerre were the only peoples who refused to return any property owned by other Igbo before the war? So, granted that they are Igbo, doesn’t that go to prove my point that we Igbo are always fighting amongst ourselves?

And I have to point one thing out, Peter Odili is not Ikwerre. He is Ndoni. The Ndoni were part of the Midwest (which made them Delta Igbo) up until Obasanjo’s boundary adjustments of 1977-78, when they found themselves as Rivers State people.

On the subject of Igbo disunity, my mentor pointed out this part of the other topic where an Igbo girl clearly stated that Nnewi girls normally don’t marry Enugu or Imo boys. So the question then becomes; is Chxta the one promoting Igbo disunity? That he refuses to paper over it doesn’t mean he is promoting disunity. On the contrary, methinks he is asking his people to take a long hard look at themselves.

My mentor is of the opinion that the Igbo, the Hausa and the Yoruba need Nigeria as much as Nigeria needs them. But that Nigeria in its current state needs a lot of readjustment.

Lastly, he told me that I am rather stupid for carrying on with this argument. He says that when people are motivated by hatred, there is nothing you would tell them, no matter how reasonable that would make them change their view points. So that this whole argument according to him is a solid waste of time.

With that rebuke ringing in my ears, I left Benin for Lagos, and got back at 1430, an hour and a half before the game.

This brings to an end my participation in this argument.

Chxta,

Welcome back from your training,your history masters taught you well.I want to categorically state am not Ibo,but the events of 1966 has to be critically examined both in the context of politics of the 1960s and Now.You have named all non-Ibos who died during the Majors Coup of 15th January 1966.That is a Historical Fact.

You have ever fail to mention that there was jubilation that followed the Coup,all over Nigeria people hailed the end of the Ten Percenters , the mood however changed when the list of those killed became known.Its imporatnt to note that Nzegwu never tried to claim power for himself.

Here is a list of Military Officers killed in Cold Blood by Comrades in The Captains Coup 29th July 1966

Major Gen. J.T.U. Aguiyi-Ironsi`                   
Lt. Col. F.A. Fajuyi`   
Lt. Col. I.C. Okoro                                 
T/Lt Col G. Okonweze   
Major Christian Anuforo~
Major Donatus O. Okafor ~       
Major T.E. Nzegwu   (NAF) `                           
Major J.K. Obienu`
Major Ibanga Ekanem                                   
Major P.C. Obi  (NAF)       
T/Major C.C. Emelifonwu                             
T/Major B. Nnamani     
T /Major J.O.C. Ihedigbo                             
T/Major O.U. Isong
T/Major A Drummond
T/Major A.D. Ogunro                                 
Capt. J.I. Chukwueke
Capt. H.A. Iloputaife                               
Capt. A.O. Akpet
Capt. S.E. Maduabum                                 
Capt. G.N.E. Ugoala
T/Capt  P.C. Okoye                                   
T/Capt. I.U. Idika
T/Capt. L.C. Dilibe                               
T/Capt. J.U. Egere
T/Capt. T.O. Iweanaya                               
T/Capt. H.A. Auna
T/Capt. R.I. Agbazue                                 
Lt. G. Mbabie
Lt. S.E. Idowu                                       
Lt. E.C.N. Achebe
Lt. S.A. Mbadiwe                                     
Lt. F.P. Jasper
Lt. P.D. Ekedingyo                                   
Lt. S.E. Onwuke
Lt. J.D. Ovuezurie                                 
Lt. A.D.C. Egbuna
Lt. E.B. Orok                                     
Lt. J.U. Ugbe
Lt. Francis Musa*
2/Lt  A.O. Olaniyan                                   
2/Lt. A.R.O. Kasaba
2/Lt. F.M. Agronaye         
2/Lt. P.K. Onyeneho

 
NOTE: 


*Some of the names here (like Musa) appear northern in origin but are actually names of Igbo officers who had joined the Army using northern names.  

On 29th July 1966,the Muslim North had their Revenge.The annihilation of Ibos.

How do you justify the Pogrom that followed the July 1966?Half a million Kaffirs Men,Women and Children were killed in the same way people were killed in Rwanda.
Pregnant Women were hacked open to deliver their contents,limbs chopped off etc,all because Sarduana was killed.

My Logic is this.

Ibos killed Northern Kings 15 January 1966
Northern Officers Killed Ibo Officers 29th July 1966 + half a million civilians as (Jara)

1967 Ibos decide to leave the Union because they consider their position as unattainable
Norther reply,Kaffirs can't leave.
The use of starvation as a legitimate Weapon Of Mass Destruction is all justified because Ibos (na them find trouble)
The Multalla Massacre of Male Children in Asaba is Justified because Ibos find them trouble

My question is WHY Why do you want to force a Union

All Northern Riots where non Muslims have been Butchered were also provoked/caused by Ibos,I suppose?
Danish,Miss world Riots and Mass Killing that followed were all caused by Ibos?

I'm hoping to read what your masters and RSM have to say

Cheers

@Debosky,

debosky:

Nutter

I agree atrocities were committed during the war, as often happens in war situations, i do not condone it either.

A lot of atrocities were also committed long before the war (dating back to the 1940s) in ‘peacetime’. Some of these led to the war itself.

debosky:

I guess its up to the ikwerre to recognise and publicly accept themselves as part of the igbo nation, as well as the larger igbo group welcoming them openly not treating them like poor cousins.

True and true.

debosky:

I find it oddly baffling that 30 years after the civil war that is still the issue that igbos use to say they have been marginalised.

Not to be pedantic but it’s been 36 years since the government of that country stopped bombing markets, schools and hospitals in Biafra. However, the war itself is still ongoing – although the battlefield has since changed. That is why, after 36 long, dry years, the same issues that led to the break-out of hostilities are still with us – deliberately unresolved.

Consequently, the engineered Ikwerre/Nd’Igbo split is not the sole reason for Igbo vexation - far from it. The formulation of new and increasingly sophisticated measures to strangulate the Igbo has been the constant preoccupation of some.

debosky:

till they get to a point that they begin to organise properly and solve their internal issues,( e.g. the anambra debacle) they might not be taken as serious partners by any of the other geo-political zones or ethnic groupings ( which is necessary for any one candidate to rule Nigeria).

This is true. The desperately-needed (re)organisation is currently being carried out. Please refer to the recently held Igbo Political Summit.

debosky:

Nigeria has failed everyone - igbo, itshekiri, yoruba, fulani, kanuri, ijaw, etc.

Yes, but at varying levels of intensity. Let us not forget that ‘Igbo’ has been Nigeria’s pariah ethnic group from the off. If I were to post some quotes taken from the minutes of a session in the Northern House of Assembly in 1964 (and I will in my next post), you’d be shocked! These show that the January 1966 coup was the perfect excuse for unrestrained slaughter. That said, it is also important to note that the current anguish of other ethnic groups was made possible only because they either directly contributed to Igbo suffering themselves, or stood by and said nothing all through the years the Igbo suffered targeting. This reminds me of a rueful quote by Rev. Martin Niemoller who (in 1945) spoke about the atrocities in Nazi Germany:

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."

debosky:

The key is critically examining our failures (which we have all contributed to) and seeking wasys of doing things in a better way for us to move forward.

This is also true. Particularly, the continual, violent persecution of the Igbo over these many years has united many with the same thought: ‘To move forward, we must create some distance between the ethnic nations (by way of autonomy) rather than continue to be burned by the friction of our closeness’. I am one of these many.


@Chxta,

I'll be back to address the issues thrown up by your last entry. Mrmayor has got the ball rolling.

Chxta One Nigeria Advocate General,

Some Quotes from 1967-1970

"Until now efforts to relieve the Biafran people have been thwarted by the desire of the central government of Nigeria to pursue total and unconditional victory and by the fear of the Ibo people that surrender means wholesale atrocities and genocide. But genocide is what is taking place right now - and starvation is the grim reaper. This is not the time to stand on ceremony, or to go through channels or to observe the diplomatic niceties,  The destruction of an entire people is an immoral objective even in the most moral of wars. It can never be justified; it can never be condoned." Mr. Richard Nixon, September 9, 1968 (During the Presidential Campaign).

", it (mass starvation) is a legitimate aspect of war, " Anthony Enahoro, Nigerian Commissioner for Information at a press conference in (New York, July 1968)

"Starvation is a legitimate weapon of war, and we have every intention of using it against the rebels, " (Alison Ayida, Head of Nigerian Delegation, Niamey Peace Talks, Republic of Niger, July 1968)

"All is fair in war, and starvation is one of the weapons of war. I don't see why we should feed our enemies fat in order for them to fight harder." Chief Obafemi Awolowo (Nigerian Minister of Finance)

" , the Ibos must be considerably reduced in number" (Lagos Policeman quoted in New York Review, 21 December, 1967)


"One word now describes the policy of the Nigerian military government towards secessionist Biafra: genocide. It is ugly and extreme but it is the only word which fits Nigeria's decision to stop the International Committee of the red Cross, and other relief agencies, from flying food to Biafra , " Washington Post (editorial) July 2, 1969

THAT WHICH IS GENOCIDE,CALLED BY ANY NAME IS GENOCIDE.

Chxta,you,your Latin speaking priest and your RSM can deny it,but genocide is genocide.After 65 years people are denying the Holocaust,afterall the Jews brought mass murder on themselves.

Enjoy.