as-salam alaykum to all muslims, pls don't let us debate on what is clear. solatul fatih is bid'ah and all bid'ah will end up in hellfire.ma-salam

what explanation can u give to Musabaqah of al-qur'an and Tahajjud which is the vogue of the day? Are they bid'as that are going to end up in Hell? Pls let us argue intelligently with proofs.
What You fell can not be everybody's opinion especially when it is empty.

A part from Salatul Ibrahiyya, What other salatis do we have From the Prophet (SAW) Mr, Miftaudeen, cos we have them in millions, are they all ending up in hell fire?

Let me list some few bid'as in present day Islam:-

1) The Holy ka'aba is presently covered with 'black' cloth unlike during prophets (SAW) time.
2) The two Holy Mosque (ie Macca & Medina) are presently modernised different from the time of the Prophet (SAW).
3)The Holy Qur'an was not in form of a book during prophets time.
4) Not even a single Hadith was writen in form of a book During the Prophet
5) The Qur'anic competition (musabaqa).
6) The Prophet (SAW) has uses camels as his form transport while we use other form of transportation eg. cars, airplanes etc
etc etc etc etc etc.
classify the above bid'as fo us Sheikh Miftaudeen.

To crown it all anybody's Islam will not be completed without having one form of bid'a or the other associated with it.

Bamma:

Let me list some few bid'as in present day Islam:-

1) The Holy ka'aba is presently covered with 'black' cloth unlike during prophets (SAW) time.

the kiswah was used since pre-islamic times and during and after the days of the Prophet (sa).

2) The two Holy Mosque (ie Macca & Medina) are presently modernised different from the time of the Prophet (SAW).

also,going by the above logic,the time of the Prophet (sa) was the 7th century.today is 21century.

3)The Holy Qur'an was not in form of a book during prophets time.

the Quran does call itself in countless place "book".

4) Not even a single Hadith was writen in form of a book During the Prophet

it was not written because the need did not arise.immediately after the death of the Prophet (sa) it was abu bakr who prevented the writing of hadiths for known reasons.

5) The Qur'anic competition (musabaqa).

LOL!

6) The Prophet (SAW) has uses camels as his form transport while we use other form of transportation eg. cars, airplanes etc

you have the wrong idea about what a bidah is.infact scholars have claimed that it is part of the miracle of the Quran that advanced form of transportation was predicted.take a look:

And horses, mules, and donkeys both to ride and for adornment. And He creates other things you do not know. (Qur'an, 16: 8 )

To crown it all anybody's Islam will not be completed without having one form of bid'a or the other associated with it.

for something or anything to be classified as "bid'ah" it must first of all be haram.also,it must be a forbidden act if it violates the Quran or the Prophet's (sa) actions and orders.then it can be said to be bid'ah.not eveything new is bid'ah.something must first be haram before it can be seen as bid'ah.anything that is halal or permissible cannot be bid'ah because by knowledge Allah (swt) through the Quran or hadith have permitted it for us.

LagosShia, u don't seem to follow the discussion from stage one. Am not saying the issues raised above are bid'as that are unacceptable. Try to understand the line of discussion please before making comments please. Salam

The offering of prayers upon the Prophet (SAWS). Allah ordered the community, the believers, to offer prayers upon the Prophet after He has himself done this together with His angels, (Sura Ahzab (33), v. 56). Moreover, the Prophet (SAWS) said in theHadith, "Whoever offers one prayer upon me, Allah will offer ten upon him."In another report, "Whoever offers one prayer on me, Allah will offer ten on him; if he makes it ten, Allah will make it one hundred for him; if he makes itone hundred, Allah will make it one thousand for him; if he makes it athousand, he will enter Paradise shoulder-to-shoulder together with me."So these are the principles and some of the bases of support for the Zikr of the Tariqa Tijaniyya. It is solely derived from Qur`an and Hadith. In the finalanalysis, we are Muslims looking for the Truth, and wherever we see theTruth, we shall follow also he waid who ever that means its not Farillah to do it but there will be a special reward to anyone who does salati to resulillah so aprt from Tijaniya how many salatil can others recite a day

let me make some list he who talks much bidah should ask him self , does prophet mohammed (s.a.w) sleep with fan or aircon?does prophet mohammed drives motor or a car ?does prophet mohammed sleeps on holy moon matress, does prophet mohammed (saw) who are you to compare your self to him look to inform student who needs to knw jux cut the coat according to your size bescause sleeping in ac,driving,eatin 3 times aday,must be bidah also , how ,any of you could sleep in the room of prophet mohammed where he lived once ago

Can someone tell me how many salatul do we have in the Quran

please on those days of prophet mohammed (saw) does people call for prayer with mic ?

Khalifansh:

let me make some list he who talks much bidah should ask him self , does prophet mohammed (s.a.w) sleep with fan or aircon?does prophet mohammed drives motor or a car ?does prophet mohammed sleeps on holy moon matress, does prophet mohammed (saw) who are you to compare your self to him look to inform student who needs to knw jux cut the coat according to your size bescause sleeping in ac,driving,eatin 3 times aday,must be bidah also , how ,any of you could sleep in the room of prophet mohammed where he lived once ago

You are using sophistry here. Sleeping is not an act of worship. You can sleep near an oven if you are in antarctica
Doing dhikr is an act of worship and it must be performed as specified by the Prophet (PBUH)

Khalifansh:

Can someone tell me how many salatul do we have in the Quran

If the Qur'an had given the text of the Salawat, the Companions would not have asked the Prophet (PBUH) how to do it
The Prophet (PBUH) taught them

For those of you eulogising Solatul Fathi, I ask you to consider this

Juwairiyah (One of the wives of the Prophet, peace be upon him) reported that one day the Prophet, peace be upon him, left her apartment in the morning as she was busy observing her dawn prayer in her place of worship. He came back in the forenoon and she was still sitting there. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said to her, "You have been in the same place since I left you?" She said, "Yes." Thereupon the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "I recited four words three times after I left you and if these were to be weighed against what you have recited since morning these would outweigh them, and these words are: Subhanallah wa bihamdihi 'adada khalqihi wa rida' nafsihi wa zinata 'arshihi wa midada kalimatihi (hallowed be Allah and praise is due to Him to the extent of the number of His creation and to the extent of His pleasure and to the extent of the weight of His Throne and to the extent of ink used in recording words for His Praise).'' (Reported by Muslim and Abu Daw'ud)


Most Dhikrs are ranked in terms of reward. The Salatul Ibrahimiya is the BEST. We have also been taught the perfect way to seek forgiveness, why would I abandon that and go for something inferior?

Bamma:

I forgot to mention another important thing that God Himself(SWT) is always within where zikri is taking place. Allah (SWT) said "ana jalisu man zakani".
Salam.

Not congregational Dhkir like your wazifa

‘Amr Ibn Salamah: “We used to sit at the door of ‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood before the Morning Prayer, so that when he came out, we would be able to walk with him to the mosque. So Abo Mosa al-Ash’aree came to us, so he said, “Has Abo ‘Abdur-Rahmaan come out yet?” So we said, “No.” So he sat with us until he came out. So when he came out, all of us stood up with him. So Abo Mosa said to him, “O Abaa ‘Abdur-Rahmaan, verily I saw in the mosque a detestable action that I hated, but I did not see, and the praise is for Allaah, anything except good.”
He said, “So what was it?” He said, “If you live, you will see it. I saw in the mosque, a people sitting in circles, waiting for the Prayer. There was a man in every circle, and in their hands were pebbles, so he would say: “Say Allahu Akbar (Allah is Greater) one hundred times,” so they would say it one hundred times. So he would say: “Say al-hamdulillah (the praise is for Allah) one hundred times,” so they would say it one hundred times. And he would say: “Say subhanallah (Free is Allah from all imperfection) one hundred times,” so they would say it one hundred times. He said, “So what did you say to them?” He said, “I did not say to them anything, I waited for your command.”
He said, “Would that you had ordered them to count up their evil deeds, and assured them that nothing from their evil deeds would be lost!” Then he went, and we went with him, until he came upon the circles of these people. So he stood over them and said, “What is this that I see you doing?!” They said, “O Abaa ‘Abdur-Rahmaan, these are pebbles upon which we count the takbeer, tahleel, and tasbeeh.”
He said, “Then count up your evil deeds, and I assure you that nothing from your evil deeds will be lost. Woe to you O Ummah of Muhammad! How quickly you rush to destruction! These are the Companions of your Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) who are abundant. And these are his clothes that have not yet decayed, and his bowl that is still unbroken. By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, either you are upon the religion better guided than the Ummah of Muhammad, or you are opening the door to misguidance.”
They said, “By Allah O Abaa ‘Abdur-Rahmaan, we did not intend anything except good.” He said, “And how many people intend good yet do not achieve it? Verily the Messenger (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) informed us: “Verily there will be a people reciting the Qur’an, yet it will not pass beyond their throats. By Allah I do not know, perhaps most of them are from amongst you.” Then he left them. So ‘Amr Ibn Salamah said: “We saw the great majority of these people fight against us upon the day of an-Nahrawan along with the Khawarij.”

''Not congregational Dhkir like your wazifa"

Beta Things from the above comments U seem completely confused. When u say wazifa u mean just four things:- 1) Reading some portion in the holy Qur'an 2) astanfirullah 3) Salatun Nabiy 4) Lailaha illallah. Is either u don't like these four things or it is the congregation that u don't like. I believe it is the congregation u don't like. let me give u what the Prophet (SAW) said on congregational dhkri:- "Abu Hurairah (RA) narrates that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said that Allah Ta’ala says: I treat my servant according to his opinion of Me and I am with him when he remembers Me; if he remembers Me privately, I remember him privately and if he remembers Me in public, I remember him in a gathering (of the angels which is) better than his gathering."
- Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmizi, Nasai, Ibn-Majah, Ahmad

Abu Darda (RA) narrates that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said: On the Day of Qiyamah certain people will be raised by Allah Ta’ala in such a manner that their faces will be illuminated and they will be seated upon thrones of pearls, envied by the people; they will neither be Messengers or Martyrs. A bedouin exclaimed: Describe them to us so that we may recognise them. He replied: Those who love each other for Allah’s sake, coming from diverse tribes and different places, they gather for the remembrance of Allah.
- Narrated by Tabrani (as reported in Targheeb and Durr) When u talk Mr. Beta things, tell us what Allah (SWT) or the Prophet (SAW) says but we done need u"r opinion.

“Verily there will be a people reciting the Qur’an, yet it will not pass beyond their throats."
Mr. Beta things the above hadith was Quoted out of context I believe to suite a purpose. The Hadith was meant to describe the signs of the end of the world and not people during the during either the prophet or the Sahabas. The prophet (SAW) said in the hadith that a group of young people that are within the muslim umma will come at the end of the world, when u see their Prayers u will think it is better than u'r own, when u hear their recitation of the holy Qur'an u will think it is better than u'r own but their recitation will not pass beyond their throats. These group of people are below 60years of age, they keep bears and their trousers are always a little below their nee. The group are interested in fighting any body but their fellow muslim brothers. These group goes out of Islam the way an arrow goes out of a bow.
Today we know who are fighting their fellow muslim brothers, beautiful line up during prayers beautiful Qur'anic recitation etc. Next time check u'r facts properly Mr. beta things.

"If the Qur'an had given the text of the Salawat, the Companions would not have asked the Prophet (PBUH) how to do it
The Prophet (PBUH) taught them. For those of you eulogising Solatul Fathi, I ask you to consider this"

Mr. beta things, from the above, it appears u did not inquire to know how salatul Ibrahimiyya came into being. A companion of the prophet ask the Prophet (SAW) how to do Salawat then the Prophet (SAW) recited salawat Ibrahimiyya to him. It is equally important to note that there were other salawats before Salawat Ibrahimyya. More importantly non among the Dariqa disciples ever disputed Salatul Ibrahimiyya. So whether u recite Salayul Ibrahimiyya, Salatul fatih or other salawats will still benefit from it. which ever salawat suites u its still serves a good purpose to Allah (SWT). Let us not argue on reward which only Allah knows best. The most important thing to do is to recite as many times as possible so that we can benefit and be among the obedient Muslims.

[b][/b]assalam alaekum warahmat,to whom it may conceren. I am a core tijaniyya and i pray-to die being tijaniyya cos Allah guides me in all my endevours. Al-hamduhu..why emphasy on salatil fatihi while we ve thousands of solawat out there. Ve you-all forgot the ayatul Qur'an that says 'alaesa Allahu bi hakamil hamkin' why do you ve to justify what you don't knw? If u think-every muslim is equal in the nearness to Allah,u re wrong. Some pple do recieve revelation from Almighty Allah which you-ve no knwoledge about and u cant cos of that doutfulness in your qolbu. What is wrong with salatil fatih and spreadin of white sheet? Do worsh a diety other than Allah? Do they worship to bcom Allah? Do they condemn five daily solat or-any other Islamic obligation? Why do we critisize each other in islam? Do knw when you turn your-bak at what-please Allah and vise versal?
Do you know better than Allah? Bcareful cos you lack deep knwledge of what you say,Allah knw best. And if u think and believe you are right,then say amin to my prayer 'oh Allah if you are please-with assolatil fatih-and-toriqotul
Tijaniya,purnish me on this earth and hereafter for my opposition'. And if you think and believe Allah is pleased with solatil fatih and those who recite it(Tijaniyya) kindly,say amin to my prayer'oh Allah if you are pleased with solatil fatih and toriqotu ttijaniyya grant me abundant blessings on the earth and jannatul ula on the day of resurrection-for recitation of this solat and being tijaniyya'.Think thouroughly while you say amin.

babs787:
Salam and appreciate everyone's comment.

Bid'a according to Islamic legal definition is an innovation, which is an error and a misguidance. It must be shunned and people warned against it.

The Holy prophet (saw) in one Hadith says: " The best speech is the book of Allah and the best path to follow is the path of Mohammed (saw) and the worst things are the innovations and every innovation is an error" (Muslim)

In the extract from Faith al-Bari the most authentic commentary on Bukhari further clarifies the concept of Bid'a.

"Innovation is that which does not have its origin in the Shariah and anything that does not have an origin in Shariah is an innovation."

Ibn- Abdul Salam says in "Al-Qawaid " that Bid'a is of five types:

1. Wajiba (necessary); Like learning Syntax and Grammar through which the word of Allah and his messenger can be understood.

2. Manduba (Recommended); All good acts that were not established in the time of the Messenger (saw) like the congregation of Taraweeh, like the funding of schools, Tasawuff, holding debates.

3. Mubaha (Permissible); Like shaking hand after Fajr and Asr prayer and enjoying worldly pleasures like good food & drink, clothes & houses.

4. Makruh (offensive)

5. Khilaf al ula (offensive)

Imam Shatbie in his book "Al-Ithisam" has defined Bid'a as follows: "A way invented in religion that resembles the Shariah yet the purpose of following it contradicts the purpose of Shariah." So it is a way, which is not in consonance and agreement with the Shariah but against its spirit. This is why the Prophet (saw) so strongly condemned Bid'a. The Innovator is thrusting something new in the religion yet it violates the spirit of religion.

Abdullah Ibn Abbas narrates the messenger (saw) said, "Whatever Allah has made permissible is halal and whatever he has forbidden is Haram and anything else not mentioned is excused." (Abu Dawad).

I still wonder why people recite Solatul Fathi instead of Solatul Ibrahim taught by the holy prophet?

I love this part:

Jzk. humm, bro, you've been around for quiet sometime on nl. Didnt even know that. God bless you for this piece

BetaThings:


Not congregational Dhkir like your wazifa

‘Amr Ibn Salamah: “We used to sit at the door of ‘Abdullaah Ibn Mas’ood before the Morning Prayer, so that when he came out, we would be able to walk with him to the mosque. So Abo Mosa al-Ash’aree came to us, so he said, “Has Abo ‘Abdur-Rahmaan come out yet?” So we said, “No.” So he sat with us until he came out. So when he came out, all of us stood up with him. So Abo Mosa said to him, “O Abaa ‘Abdur-Rahmaan, verily I saw in the mosque a detestable action that I hated, but I did not see, and the praise is for Allaah, anything except good.”
He said, “So what was it?” He said, “If you live, you will see it. I saw in the mosque, a people sitting in circles, waiting for the Prayer. There was a man in every circle, and in their hands were pebbles, so he would say: “Say Allahu Akbar (Allah is Greater) one hundred times,” so they would say it one hundred times. So he would say: “Say al-hamdulillah (the praise is for Allah) one hundred times,” so they would say it one hundred times. And he would say: “Say subhanallah (Free is Allah from all imperfection) one hundred times,” so they would say it one hundred times. He said, “So what did you say to them?” He said, “I did not say to them anything, I waited for your command.”
He said, “Would that you had ordered them to count up their evil deeds, and assured them that nothing from their evil deeds would be lost!” Then he went, and we went with him, until he came upon the circles of these people. So he stood over them and said, “What is this that I see you doing?!” They said, “O Abaa ‘Abdur-Rahmaan, these are pebbles upon which we count the takbeer, tahleel, and tasbeeh.”
He said, “Then count up your evil deeds, and I assure you that nothing from your evil deeds will be lost. Woe to you O Ummah of Muhammad! How quickly you rush to destruction! These are the Companions of your Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) who are abundant. And these are his clothes that have not yet decayed, and his bowl that is still unbroken. By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, either you are upon the religion better guided than the Ummah of Muhammad, or you are opening the door to misguidance.”
They said, “By Allah O Abaa ‘Abdur-Rahmaan, we did not intend anything except good.” He said, “And how many people intend good yet do not achieve it? Verily the Messenger (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) informed us: “Verily there will be a people reciting the Qur’an, yet it will not pass beyond their throats. By Allah I do not know, perhaps most of them are from amongst you.” Then he left them. So ‘Amr Ibn Salamah said: “We saw the great majority of these people fight against us upon the day of an-Nahrawan along with the Khawarij.”

na'am

^ The narration above doesn't prove anything. I have read it before. First all, this narration could not be chained to the prophet(SAW). It's merely a companion's opinion.

Second, the last part of the narration where prophet (SAW) said people would read Quran but wont go down their throat - really doesn't correlate with doing dhikr. There are other narrations in hadith that are in support of group dhikr. It's definitely not bi'dah unless they make it compulsorily part of the deen.

Bamma:
I have gone thru the debate on Salatul fatihi and the spreading of white sheet during wazifa. As far as Iam concerned there is serious misconception especially on the part of those that are not in the Dariqa circle. from the forgoing discussion it appears those against Dariqa have made up there minds to disagree with any explanation from the on set.
On whether salatul-Fatihi is more important than salatul Ibrahimiya etc in terms of reward is not the issue. The issue is there are millions of other salatul-Nabi and as Muslims we are expected to recite any on our Prophet (SAW) regardless of the reward. For u'r information The Dariqa people do recite salatul ibrahimiyya and have never discourage anybody from reciting it. If u a from the Izala sect go thru the Tafsir of ibn khathir in the section of salatul-Nabi u will be surprise to see salatul fatihi in it but no Salatul Ibrahimiyya. That does not make it unimportant any way. A muslim is at liberty to recite any salatul-Nabi he believes in and God will reward him.
A Good Muslim is suppose to follow the teaching of the Prophet (SAW) where he says " Min Husni Islamil mar'i tarkuhu ma la ya'a ni" The best thing for a muslim is to stay away from anything that doesn't concern him. If the Dariqa people believes in getting plenty reward for reciting Salatul-fatihi so be it, who said u should criticise them? Salam.

Jazakum my brother

babs787:
Salam all.

Please I need Muslims stand on the topic.

Firstly, I notice that people give preference to Solatul Fathi instead of Solatul Ibrahim and some even say that reciting it up to thousand times has reward than Solat?

Secondly, I still notice in some mosques how some people spread a white cloth after Mahgrib prayer, sit round it and made supplications and never bother to pray the nawafil after Mahgrib.

Please I would welcome everybody's comment on these. There are still some but would want to start with one at a time.

Maa Salam.

Islam is a complete religion and Prophet Muhammad completed his message before he died.. any new thing in islam is bidiah (either good or bad)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhMlaHUGcs