Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon - Foreign Affairs (11) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Foreign Affairs / Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon (44962 Views)
Lebanon Arrests Vulture Accused Of Spying For Isreal. (pic) / ISIS Supreme Leader's Wife, Son Captured And Detained In Lebanon / Hezbollah Claim Drone shot-down By Israel (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) ... (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) ... (53) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by nilla(f): 11:38pm On Aug 02, 2006 |
@davidylan Dont sweat it. i am not the one blinded by bias. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by LoverBwoy(m): 11:44pm On Aug 02, 2006 |
Good citizens? You all should have thought of these many years ago when Hizbollah was practically shelling Isreal for years without retaliation. What of the innocent jews killed then? Did they not deserve our sympathy? lets be good citizens of the world and care more about the plight of [b]innocent people on both sides [/b] did u miss that part @ david or u think im taking sides because of the CNN jibe? |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by texazzpete(m): 11:53pm On Aug 02, 2006 |
I think it's a Nigerian thing. look at editorials and Open letters in the Newspapers. It's a common thing for some dude to abuse someone else just because he shares a different view. Afterall, it's in that same vein that the PDp chairman (Alli) announced that all those against third term were wicked people and that "God will punish them". But here we're supposed to be men of intellect here. or at least, people smart enough to go online. Do u guys seriously think you'd enjoy life if all the 6 billion people on this planet thought exactly as you do? Very few people here have actually met others on this forum in the flesh. So when someone calls another an 'idiot' or 'slowpoke' or 'stupid', doesn't it sound strange? Here's something you should read While the United Nations has not yet accepted a definition of terrorism [1], the UN's "academic consensus definition," written by terrorism expert A.P. Schmid and widely used by social scientists, runs: Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby — in contrast to assassination — the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperilled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought," (Schmid, 1988). In November 2004, a UN panel described terrorism as any act: "intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act." So in that context, try and analyze the actions of either Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah or America. Or all of them if you please! |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by nilla(f): 12:03am On Aug 03, 2006 |
In November 2004, a UN panel described terrorism as any act: "intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act." Interesting point texazzpete. (no one can say you are biased). All ye people that claim hezbollah are the terrorist and Israel the defenders, please prove  |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by texazzpete(m): 12:31am On Aug 03, 2006 |
nilla: Yeah. well it could be argued in some quarters that the israeli army does not actually intend to cause harm to civillians. Your ability to stomach this last statement depends on how u like the phrase 'Collateral damage'. I've got a friend who faoms at the mounth when he hears those two words  |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by debosky(m): 12:59am On Aug 03, 2006 |
a lot of historical antecedents have been stated here so i won't bother to repeat them. Let us look at the recent past and find the root of the current issue hisbollah crosses israel's border,kidnaps their soldiers. israel retaliates. all i care is that hisbollah be disarmed so the innocent civillians can enjoy their lives. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by Nobody: 1:22am On Aug 03, 2006 |
I refuse to shy away from "taking sides" or what some refer to as bias. Isreal is fully justified to act to defend its citizens who are constantly being harrased and killed by terrorists. Some have queried whether Isreal should not be regarded as a terrorist organisation, i beg to differ. the major reason most of the western world has remained silent till now is because the Americans remember the ruins of 911 and the horror of burying 3000 innocent civilians, Britons remember 7/7, Madrid, Bombay is still mourning. They know who the real aggressors are and they are secretly wishing this may at least take down one less terror group. American and French forces remember losing 240 soldiers to hizbollah suicide bombs in 1983 while participating in a peace keeping mission in lebanon. It is high time Arabs stopped blaming everyone but themselves for their woes, the world is truly tired of keeping peace that never lasts. It is not enough to just order an immediate cease fire, it behoves those involved to commit to giving peace a chance. But with recent comments from Iran and Syria, that may never be possible. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by Nobody: 2:19am On Aug 03, 2006 |
@afam thansk for the brief history u wrote earlier on, it sure prove a lot of facts that we all have been avoiding expecially those arguing from a religious perspective. i.e nilla - pls no offense we all know the arabs hate the jews and xtians alike but wat thrills me most is the propanganda like i posted yesterday and that answers the question nilla is asking if the terrorist are children- arab propanganda is to trainthe children to hate isreal from birth for reasons they dont know about, introdcue the children to act of matyrdoom and deceive as much as u can that when u kill a jew ur going to paradise with some volume of virgins waitng for u. i might be wrong but i have always wondered the virgins is it distributed among male and female or just female virgins. yes isreal does not have the right to kill children we agree but we have come to see that freedom fighters like hezbollah and hamas have the right to? well arabs are known for propanganda but wats iran's position in all these? on the one hand they claim they r not arabs they r persians but onthe second hand they r arabs when the jews are the enemy? thousands die in iraq every day not from US bullets but from shitte and sunni sucide crusaders are those also jews fault rightly said afam extremest on both sides are to be blame for this war but i tell u every one sees the jews as the extremist after all they r the children slaughters. but we all know freedom fighters train their young to die early in cause of matyrdoom like u said afam we r in nigeria we only have access to cnn and western media, at times i just wish i could have a sneak preview in aljazeera and see how the showbiz industry is really doing up there and since we allknow isreali deads are not deaths they r victory for freedom fighters maybe thats why isreal does not display theirs or coul dit be said that their own shots inthe propanganda movie industry could not qualify for viewing? |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by Nobody: 2:28am On Aug 03, 2006 |
in summary - until muslims and arabs alike tend to respect everyones right to exist either u beleive in their faith or not there would never be peace in either middle east or some places of africa because i find it quite shocking that arabs in isreal - especially in nazarite that were hit by hezbollah rockets would still be pointing accusing fingers at isreal for the rockets. meanwhile if i might ask u fired the rockets? |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by Nobody: 2:34am On Aug 03, 2006 |
@ kaecy most arabs are hypocrites. So many of them are living peacefully in Isreal and yet hate the country. Why dont they all just ship out to Lebanon in protest? What of those who grabbed foreign passports and fled when western countries came to ferry their "citizens"? The same "moderates" are back in the comoforts of NY and London, blaming the US and Europe! Why did they not stay back in Lebanon to help the people in Qana? |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by shango(m): 2:59am On Aug 03, 2006 |
Would it be ok for American Indians to rise up today to say they want to use force to drive out all the European and African immigrants that now regard themselves as Americans? Well land is taken and fought over all through history . Americans could battle them and perhaps American Indians could commit the same genocide that European settlers did to reclaim back their land. Would that be the best solution? Wouldnt the best solution be to have both live side by side even though the American Indians where her prior? Is that not the decent and peaceful thing to do, to coorperate and share? Instead of the barbarism of war and civilian casualties and never ending fighting. There are only 3 situations to conflicts like these 1. One side essentially gets wiped out (like the Native Indians) or marginalized through genocide 2. Never ending fights 3. A Truce is called and land is shared that is it. I think the first two are unacceptable and barbaric and serve noone and create never ending animosity. If the American Indians rose up today and started killing Americans it would not be a matter of morality or justifications, each side would be guilty of something, afterall American ancestors did commit atrocities against those people even though the Indians of today would be killing people that had nothing to do with prior crimes commited on Native Indian ancestors. Reparations, equal treatment and fairness is the only way to go for peace and the death of animosity between groups and that requires diplomacy not war. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by LoverBwoy(m): 3:00am On Aug 03, 2006 |
Why did they not stay back in Lebanon to help the people in Qana? in what way do u suggest they do this? If the islreali gov are refusing aid organisation from distributing food and medicine, blowing up a clearly Marked UN building killing unarmed peace keeping officials including nigerians. . . |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by nilla(f): 3:04am On Aug 03, 2006 |
@ kaecy5 @afam Please explain how i am arguing from a religious perspective? And excuse me is the statement below from you, not religious in nature?? until muslims and arabs alike tend to respect everyones right to exist either u beleive in their faith or not there would never be peace in either middle east or some places of africa |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by shango(m): 3:08am On Aug 03, 2006 |
I guess the solution is for Israel to use nukes and wipeout all its arab neighbors like the Americans did in the wars that eliminated the Native Indians, why work for peace, why don't you Bible Fearing Christians just say it in plain terms, genocide is the answer isnt it? Thats how to solve the problem. Because there will be another hezbollah and hamas and other groups as long as Israel exists and expands and continues its practiceses in not wanting a sperate Palestinian state and settling the greivances with its neighbors. I mean we can all agree that the Arabs will not just stay still and take what Israel dishes out, so why not just wipe out all of them off the face of the planet, problem solved right? |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by zebudaya(m): 3:24am On Aug 03, 2006 |
Nope that's not the solution. I was watching Swordfish the other day I watched it when i was younger but i didn't fully understand it until now. John Travolta's character was buying nukes and other weapons and hitting the terrorists harder than they thought. If a bomb goes off on American soil for instance, He would hit the guys who financed them. That's what America has to do like the World Trade Center issue, bombing Afghanistan was a very good idea, they should have gone further and blown away the sheikh or emir that financed Bin laden, cut them off at the source. If he finances, blow up his cruise ship while he's on it, the other guys would be scared and once Hamas, Hezbollah run out of finances, they begin to see the futility of their actions. Hit the financers hard! and the resistance would dry up when they don't have money to buy weapons. Look at Hezbollah, iran and syria is supplying weapons blow up a senior Irani/Syrian official/financer and make him an example. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by LoverBwoy(m): 3:30am On Aug 03, 2006 |
they should have gone further and blown away the sheikh or emir that financed Bin laden, cut them off at the source. do u really think america will blow up saudi arabia? Hit the financers hard! and the resistance would dry up when they don't have money to buy weapons. Look at Hezbollah, iran and syria is supplying weapons blow up a senior Irani/Syrian official/financer and make him an example. then you will get an all out war because syria will start blowing up isreal and im sure they have more advance weapons than the hezbollah group Instead of america supplying Isreal with missles why cant just wipe out the whole "arab countries" themselves then they will be at rest |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by shango(m): 3:34am On Aug 03, 2006 |
when the guy who finances them lives among the population and its memebers are bred from the population then what? You think Israel bombing Lebanon till the whole country is levelled will destroy Hezbollah? Even if they kill every Hezbollah member (which they cant and they havent) you think a new Hezbollah will not come about? It will be a never ending war, full of skirmishes and reinvasions till the end of time. Is that what you propose. Just cyclical Barbarism basically? |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by zebudaya(m): 3:36am On Aug 03, 2006 |
There's nothing wrong with an allout war we have fought two world wars. The countries that started it would never fight another war. Germany and Japan. Israel has fought the Arab countries twice and defeated them and seized their land, You give them too much credit. Egypt has over 400,000 soldiers in its army and Has not won any significant war. They are not tactical when it comes to war. Naija has 70,000 soldiers and no army reserve yet we went into liberia, and then sierria leone and enforced peace with a ruthless team. Hit them harder. Weaken them significantly, the next hezbollah would be throwing stones as soon as you take out the financers. cynical barbarism if that's what you want to call it, If you want to make an omlette you gotta break some eggs. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by shango(m): 3:41am On Aug 03, 2006 |
You guys know one of the places the considered settling the European Jews was in present day Uganda? Europeans had no problem rellocating Jews as long as it was not in their lands. What would you Africans be saying then if there where fights and conflicts because Israel was in the midst of other African nations. Would you still advocate the US bombing the barbaric African nations? Because that is how they see us Africans. Would you suggest a solution to the fighting in the Congo from Rwandan rebels is to just nuke the whole region, afterall millions die there each year for the past decades. Zebudaya, when A FEW Hausas started killing Easterners after the cartoon, if the Ibos had nukes I guess it would have been alright for them to level the Northern States for being such barbarians, afterall those killings had ZERO justifications as Ibos did not even make those cartoons and what they did by killing Ibos and the killings due to Sharia law is tantamount to terrorism. Please, a little common sense here |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by shango(m): 3:43am On Aug 03, 2006 |
cynical barbarism if that's what you want to call it, If you want to make an omlette you gotta break some eggs. its ok as long as you do not become the egg right? |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by zebudaya(m): 3:48am On Aug 03, 2006 |
Well last time the igbo's slaughtered them in Onitsha and Asaba, Israel has been bombing Lebanon and Gaza for a week now, Have you heard about any violent "Hausa/Muslim" clashes/killings? exactly they are scared now, they know what is going to happen if they try that crap they've been trying over the years, "Grab an igbo man kill an igbo man". I tell you you can't reason with terrorists you have to fight terror with terror. You say Europeans have no problem relocating jews okay, what are Europeans doing in south Africa, Zimbabwe, Algeria and Namibia. I haven't heard anyone complain that African land was taken. Or isn't it the same thing? They still have the land till this day There's a war going on in Sudan but we don't care, we care about innocent people in the middle east while our people suffer. I break and whip eggs. I am not the egg. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by shango(m): 4:15am On Aug 03, 2006 |
so you agree we should nuke the whole region, including Muslim territories like the Northern states. Afterall if we are going to use force why not do it right? All these silly air strikes and bombs are just prolonging things, just nuke the whole region. The barbarians will never stop their terrorist activities and will never stop recruiting so lets just use nukes on the whole region then. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by debosky(m): 4:46am On Aug 03, 2006 |
shango are you saying that israel should not defend itself? gimme a break they pulled out of lebanon SIX years ago, hisbollah (sworn to the destruction of israel) continues to fire rockets them and refuses to disarm. Israel pulled out of gaza even when there was no peace agreement. the rewards they get? hamas kidnaps israeli soldiers from israeli territory. these guys simply don't get it, they want israel destroyed period, there is no other alternative according to them, israel is prepared to live in peace withthem, but they refuse. they keep claiming that the 'Zionists' and their supporters 'took away' arab land. from the previous history lessons we have been given that was not the case. you justhave to realise that these people are intolerant extremists who don;t want peace, unless that peace means israel is destroy. israel is prepared to let them live, if they are not prepared to do that, well then the jews hav no option but to defend themselves period. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by kabiyesi(m): 6:13am On Aug 03, 2006 |
texazzpete ~ Mr Wikipedia. I am disappointed at you. You base your entire reference on Wikipedia and calling yourself an expert on history? I can go to Wikipedia and glorify Nigeria. Mr Copy and Paste, Nigerians are known for their Intellectual disposition, despite mediocre leadership, but you're an embarrassment. Who are the fools that listen to you? Where is Pearl Harbor? Hawaii. Where is Hawaii? The 50th state of America. You never knew that? So the declassified memo does not make sense to you? O ma se o. What Professor Tsuyoshi Hasegawa, a Professor of History at the University of California, Santa Barbara wrote was based on the archives of American, Soviet, and Japanese records of WW2 that led to Japanese Surrender. Read the entire link and see what the other experts like you said. So you don't trust declassified records? Hitler made the same mistake your Napoleon made in the Invasion of Russia of 1812, which was also a turning point in the Napoleonic wars. The campaign decimated the French and allied invasion forces of around 800,000 men to less than 2%. Do the math. History loves to repeat itself, if one doesn't learn from past mistakes, as attested to the similar destruction of the formidable German Nazi War Machine, the best and greatest of its time, on the same Eastern Front. Remember General Winter. texazzpete, you met your Waterloo here on this thread. Who first launched Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles, ICBM? Who is the first country in Space? The Soviets launched Sputnik in 1957, the first man made satellite. What of Vostok 1 that launched Gagarin in 1961? Compare that to Freedom 7 that sent Alan Shepard up, afterwards. Have you heard of Konstantin Tsiolkovskiy? Check this link: http://history.nasa.gov/sputnik/kon.html I doubt it if you're well versed in Orbit Mechanics. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by texazzpete(m): 8:03am On Aug 03, 2006 |
kabiyesi: When i learn how to deal with overbloated egos and supercillous retards, i'll reply you. for now, wallow in your self-induced stupidity. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by dayokanu(m): 8:28am On Aug 03, 2006 |
Hizbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah says he wants Israel to release from prison Samir Kuntar, a Lebanese citizen who was part of a Palestine Liberation Organization (P.L.O.) cell that in 1979 arrived by boat in the northern Israeli town of Nahariya and invaded the apartment of the Haran family. Smadar Haran hid in the attic with her daughter Yael, 2, and was so intent on stifling the girl's crying that she accidentally suffocated the child. Meanwhile, members of the cell took Danny Haran and daughter Einat, 4, back to the shore where, realizing escape was impossible, Kuntar shot Danny in the back and drowned him, then battered Einat's head on beach rocks and smashed her skull with his rifle butt. Think about that |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by Mariory(m): 10:13am On Aug 03, 2006 |
dayokanu: Exactly! let's start discussing the atrocities carried out by these so called "freedom fighters". Where are all the tools err I mean peaceloving, fairness world looking people that were criticising Isreal. Common tools, apply your fairness policy here. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by emeka83: 11:02am On Aug 03, 2006 |
so Isreal killed 57 civilians in the Lebanese village Qana right?,,,,well so what?,,,,,,,ok stop before u condemn me, but check this out first. That’s about a two-day toll in Iraq, and next to nothing in Sudan, Algeria, Afghanistan, or other war-torn Muslim countries. Iran-Iraqi war took millions of lives, and scores of other intra-Arab wars killed more than 100,000 civilians each. The Allies had no reservations about bombing German and Japanese cities. The Lebanese cheered Hezbollah’s attacks on Jewish population centers. Palestinian suicide bombers specifically target Israeli civilians. So why should Israel behave any differently? Besides, Israeli army did every thing possible to spare the civilians. They were allowed hours to leave the village which hosted the Hezbollah fighters. Israel practically agreed to let the guerillas escape along with the villagers to avoid killing civilians. The villagers stupidly left in the village, and hide not in the bomb shelter, as the media has it, but in the basement. No reasonable person would hide in the basement of the house targeted for aerial attack. Israel made no mistake; the locals did. Whether or not that was Hezbollah’s provocation, does not matter. Israel acted well within the normal limits of war. It need not pitifully offer excuses and ask for forgiveness. Wars are about killing. The moral cripples from the Peace Now at Israel’s helm ridicule the country, demoralize the army, and lose the war. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by Afam(m): 11:33am On Aug 03, 2006 |
@Kaecy5, Thanks for your post. Honestly, it is very hard discussing politics or issues bordering on religion or race without being sentimental, subjective or totally biased. I hardly engage people on such issues because you can correctly predict the direction the arguement will go just by knowing the person's name or his/her religion. It is also sad that those of us that believe that Israel is wrong in killing innocent people are now seen as supporting Hezbollah. How stupid and simplistic that some people can be. Only shameless liars will not condemn the killing of innocent ones by both sides. It is even bad when Israel is more or less waging war on a country (Lebanon) when they tell the world that they are after Hezbollah, what manner of explanation is that? For sustainable peace to be achieved, we need to see genuine concern by spectators and sinserity of purpose by the active players. Let Israel release the lands it seized in 1967 and then let the world see the next excuses for resistance groups (I refuse to call them terrorists because one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter) to attack Israel. Or, let the Palestine be granted statehood just as Israel is. At least with Palestine as a nation, they will have the right to import arms just like any other country is doing, then if the 2 nations decide to fight let them do so soldier to soldier, enough of the disproportionate use of force in the middle east. I do not believe in peace at all cost because I always fight for my right. Those who make peaceful change impossible will surely make violent change inevitable. Take care. @Davidylan, You are simply intelectually stubborn and believe me, half knowledge is very very dangerous. I have seen many in my lifetime that feel they know better than the rest but when put to test they don't can't find their bearing. This is a discussion forum where we share ideas, discuss issues, agree or disagree with people. The moment you feel you know it all, want everyone to agree with you, disagree with anyone that does not is the day you start showing the world how empty you really are. Again I maintain, the killing of innocent ones by any one, group or country is wrong and should be condemned. We do not need justifications for qwrong doing, we want people to avoid doing the wrong thing rather than doing and later justifying or apologising. |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by emeka83: 12:07pm On Aug 03, 2006 |
am going to puke when next I hear this "disproportional" bullshit. what exactly will be proportional? israel importing 13000 iranian made missiles/rockets and launching them indiscriminately into lebanese civilian population. well, giving a child rapist 20yrs is not proportional to me. porportionality makes sense when it is statistically feasible. u have more than 80% of the1.2 or more muslims in the world that will like to wipe 6 million isrealis off the earth according to their religion. that is about 960 million people against 6 million people. which means that statistically and proportionally 1 jewish life is worth 160 muslim life. therefore for every one isreali that is murdered by either a muslim attack or a hizbollah rocket is worth 160 muslim life to be proprtional regardless of what means that mass murder is carried out. afterall everbody uses their own means. so proportionally, 450 or more lives lost in lebanon is still far below proportionality compared to the 56 lives in isreal. SO when next I hear u scumbags talk about proportionality, I will tell my contacts in tel-aviv to escalate the bombing even more |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by Mariory(m): 12:11pm On Aug 03, 2006 |
Mariory: |
| Re: Israel vs Hezbollah/Lebanon by emeka83: 12:22pm On Aug 03, 2006 |
moreover this assumption that it is the responsibility of isreal to protect lebanese lives is a stupid assumptions that has never existed in the history of warfare. the primary and sole responsibility of the isreali government is to protect isreali lives even if it means wiping off lebanon, as long as the threat to its existence continues to come from and entity within that foreign government. now it is also the sole responsibility of the lebanese government to protect its own citizens. Andd if it does not have the military to do so, it will then have to get rid of what is causing the problems (hezbollah), and call a truce with the isreali military. Again the responsibility rests on the goverment of lebanon not israel |
(1) (2) (3) ... (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) ... (53) (Reply)
Kenyan Man Twists His Body To Make Money / Japa: UK Unemployment Situation Worsens / 'He's On His Own': King Charles Ousts Prince Andrew From Buckingham Palace
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 102 |