What I mean by that is why 5X? Why not 6X or 7X or even 4X? Did the mandate come from Allah or was it arbitrarily decided by the prophet?

beejaay: you guys have started hiding post again.whats wrong with onetrack post that u had to hide?? seun watchout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Becouse your post is useless.

Beejay: @op u should also know that there are other verses of the Quran that proclaim only 3times a day prayer (as a matter of fact no Quran verses ask anyone to pray 5X a day)..the 5x is derived from the Hadith which intself is seriously unrealiable

Says the scholar that is very skilled in the anatomy of the Qu'ran! But Seriously what's your problem? People following it are not complaining and here you are crying over what doesn't concern you.Why taking parecetamol for people's headache? Being an hatetheist is a bad thing.

Allah says in the glorious Qu'ran inSurah Ar-Rum 30;17-18 -So glorify Allâh,when you come up to the evening and when you enter the morning.And His are all the praises and thanks in the heavens and the earth, and (glorify Him) in the afternoon and when you come up to the time,when the day begins to decline.
When you come to the evening,simply means offer Magrib and Ishai prayers,evening means the time between afternoon and night.The verse continues and says 'when you enter the morning' i.e. Offers Fajr prayer.
The next verse says glorify Allah in the afternoon i.e. Asr prayer and when day begins to decline i.e. Zuhr prayer.
So that's the 3 in your interpretation abi

So in your feeble mind Mr scholar,you are looking for the verse in the Qu'ran that says 'These ar the 5 daily prayers muslims should offer'.I shake my head for you

lanrexlan: Says the scholar that is very skilled in the anatomy of the Qu'ran! But Seriously what's your problem? People following it are not complaining and here you are crying over what doesn't concern you.Why taking parecetamol for people's headache? Being an hatetheist is a bad thing.

Allah says in the glorious Qu'ran inSurah Ar-Rum 30;17-18 -So glorify Allâh,when you come up to the evening and when you enter the morning.And His are all the praises and thanks in the heavens and the earth, and (glorify Him) in the afternoon and when you come up to the time,when the day begins to decline.
When you come to the evening,simply means offer Magrib and Ishai prayers,evening means the time between afternoon and night.The verse continues and says 'when you enter the morning' i.e. Offers Fajr prayer.
The next verse says glorify Allah in the afternoon i.e. Asr prayer and when day begins to decline i.e. Zuhr prayer.
So that's the 3 in your interpretation abi

So in your feeble mind Mr scholar,you are looking for the verse in the Qu'ran that says 'These ar the 5 daily prayers muslims should offer'.I shake my head for you

u are funny bro, am not an athetheist or whatever u call it check my signature

and to your post, the Quran clearly highlighted Morning, Afternoon and Evening... u are the one breaking evening to Magrib and ishai (show us magrib and Ishai in the Quran) and breaking afternoon to Suhr and Ashr (show us suhr and Ashr in the Quran)...since u break afternoon and evening prayer in two each, why not break morning prayer into two also

here are Quran verses for you to buttress my point

Quran 24:58 O you who believe! Let your legal slaves and slave-girls, and those among you who have not come to the age of puberty ask your permission (before they come to your presence) on three occasions; before Fajr (morning) prayer, and while you put off your clothes for the noonday (rest), and after the 'Ishâ' (late-night) prayer. (These) three times are of privacy for you, other than these times there is no sin on you or on them to move about, attending (helping) you each other. Thus Allâh makes clear the Ayât (the Verses of this Qur'ân, showing proofs for the legal aspects of permission for visits, etc.) to you. And Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Quran 2:238 Guard strictly As­Salawât (the prayers) especially the middle Salât (i.e. the best prayer ­ 'Asr). And stand before Allâh with obedience [and do not speak to others during the Salât (prayers)]


also




and if you want to start using hadith to rationalize prayers think of the below Quranic verses


Quran 6:114 [Say (O Muhammad SAW)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allâh while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur'ân), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt.

Quran 6:38 There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered.

Quran 45:6 These are the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, which We recite to you (O Muhammad SAW) with truth. Then in which speech after Allâh and His Ayât will they believe?

Quran 2:170 When it is said to them: "Follow what Allâh has sent down." They say: "Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following." (Would they do that!) Even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided?

Quran 20:52 [Mûsa (Moses)] said: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord, in a Record. My Lord is neither unaware nor He forgets, "(if u think Quran is not detailed enough and needs hadith to be explained)

quran 44:58 Certainly, We have made this (Qur'ân) easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember


so bros am not fighting anyone nor proofing anything, i was merely saying what the Quran said

Beejay: u are funny bro, am not an athetheist or whatever u call it check my signature and to your post, the Quran clearly highlighted Morning, Afternoon and Evening... u are the one breaking evening to Magrib and ishai (show us magrib and Ishai in the Quran) and breaking afternoon to Suhr and Ashr (show us suhr and Ashr in the Quran)...since u break afternoon and evening prayer in two each, why not break morning prayer into two also

None of my business if you are observer.I don't engage in silly argument anymore and I think you are 'skilled' in the Qu'ran you should do the searching yourself.
You and your folks are alike,some non muslims will also say 'show us the 5 pillars of Islam in the Qu'ran' as if they want to follow it.
It's like you need glasses I break afternoon down? Four things were mentioned in those verses.I didn't break anything down.Firstly when 'you enter the morning' i.e. Fajr,the second when 'the day begins to decline' i.e. Zuhr the third 'in the afternoon' i.e Asr the fourth and fifth in the evening i.e Magrib and Ishai.
In layman's terms,the evening can range anywhere from four o'clock to nine o'clock.So it's none of your business if muslims offer Magrib and Ishai during this time.Whereas the Qu'ran says in Surah Al-Imran [3:31] Say (O Muhammad SAW):"If you (really) love Allâh then follow me.

Bye

Aren't both of you members of the Ummah? I thought the disagreement was only a Sunni/Shia affair.

lanrexlan: Whereas the Qu'ran says in Surah Al-Imran [3:31] Say (O Muhammad SAW):"If you (really) love Allâh then follow me

Bye

my good friend Muhammad and Quran aren't mutually exclusive.. u cant talk about Qur'an without muhammad and vice versa.. without muhammad there wont be Quran as we know it today. by following Qur'an, u are automatically following muhammad..am sure u get it


Happy Ramadan

Weah96: Aren't both of you members of the Ummah? I thought the disagreement was only a Sunni/Shia affair.

u are right in a way but then u should know that i belong to all religions but still dont belong to any...I follow the religion of KINDNESS where ever it goes

beejaay:

u are right in a way but then u should know that i belong to all religions but still dont belong to any...I follow the religion of KINDNESS where ever it goes

Thank you for this comment. Kindly refrain from answering question addressed to Muslims in future.

Thank you.

maclatunji:

Thank you for this comment. Kindly refrain from answering question addressed to Muslims in future.

Thank you.

why should I? are you God to forbid from talking i have every right to express my view wherever and whenever so far i didnt insult or abuse anyone

face the message and leave the messenger

Thank you too and ramadan kareem

@Maclatunji why did u have to hide my post did i insult anyone there or did i insult islam...u and this ur dictatorial tendency...Seun dey don dey come again ooooo

FYI, I'm really curious, so can a practicing Muslim please answer the question. I mean no disrespect to your religion, or beejaay btw. Does Allah forbid Muslims from praying 6X a day? Or is 5 both the minimum and maximum?

@Maclatunji and Lanrexlan, but the number of prayers was supposed to be 50!

Let us be honest and think, can both of you sustain 50 prayers a day?

Think and then think some more.

2 questions....

If Moses asked for the prayers to be reduced, that means Moses is wiser! Hmmm
If the prophet went back and asked for the prayers to be reduced, that means he did not submit!

There's a third question which is obvious but I will not ask it

Weah96: FYI, I'm really curious, so can a practicing Muslim please answer the question. I mean no disrespect to your religion, or beejaay btw. Does Allah forbid Muslims from praying 6X a day? Or is 5 both the minimum and maximum?

You are getting the wrong notions. A Muslim may pray any number of times a day. However, we observe Solat 5 times a day. To translate Solat as prayer is the wrong notion because the Arabic word for prayer is "du'a".

Solat should be translated to "act of worship" or something like that.

@ beejaay......from my observation I noticed you are using mohsin khan's translation....in Quran 2:238 why did you ommit the "5 obligatory" which was in the bracket..
just sincerely asking.

proo212: @Maclatunji and Lanrexlan, but the number of prayers was supposed to be 50!

Let us be honest and think, can both of you sustain 50 prayers a day?

Think and then think some more.

2 questions....

If Moses asked for the prayers to be reduced, that means Moses is wiser! Hmmm
If the prophet went back and asked for the prayers to be reduced, that means he did not submit!

There's a third question which is obvious but I will not ask it

Hahahaha, you are not a Muslim so your disbelief is worthless. Do we Muslims claim Prophet Muhammad (SAW) has all the knowledge in the world? No.

So, you read that Moses (AS) asked for a reduction of Solat but somehow failed to read where he asked for a reduction to 3 but Prophet Muhammad (AS) said no?

Over and above your simplistic thought process is divine will and wisdom. God knows why he allowed the back and forth to happen and we as Muslims obey his determination of the matter. #QED

beejaay: @Maclatunji why did u have to hide my post did i insult anyone there or did i insult islam...u and this ur dictatorial tendency...Seun dey don dey come again ooooo

because, most likely your post doesn't fit well with his ideology. He deleted my post two months ago and banned me for one month. He accused me of posting a tafsir out of context. This is not true, infact i left at the end of my post, the links to the webpage of the full tafsir.

maclatunji:
Hahahaha, you are not a Muslim so your disbelief is worthless. Do we Muslims claim Prophet Muhammad (SAW) has all the knowledge in the world? No.
So, you read that Moses (AS) asked for a reduction of Solat but somehow failed to read where he asked for a reduction to 3 but Prophet Muhammad (AS) said no?
Over and above your simplistic thought process is divine will and wisdom. God knows why he allowed the back and forth to happen and we as Muslims obey his determination of the matter. #QED

I guess I have to ask the third question,

If Allah(swt) ordered 50 Solats and Moses told the prophet to go back saying its too much, who is wiser?

^Allah created Moses and whatever wisdom Moses has is from Allah.

You did not think of that did you? #Hehehehe

proo212: @Maclatunji and Lanrexlan, but the number of prayers was supposed to be 50!

Let us be honest and think, can both of you sustain 50 prayers a day?

Think and then think some more.

Surah An-Nisa 4:28 -Allâh wishes to lighten (the burden) for you;and man was created weak.Humans aren't angels that constant in their worship of their Lord.Allah(swt) don't wish to a lay burden on the people because it will scare them away from his path.Allah is the most merciful,full of bounty to his creatures.
And his muslims always say this Surah Al-Baqarah 2:286 -......Our Lord! Punish us not if we forget or fall into error,our Lord! Lay not on us a burden like that which You did lay on those before us;our Lord! Put not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear......

2 questions....

If Moses asked for the prayers to be reduced, that means Moses is wiser! Hmmm
If the prophet went back and asked for the prayers to be reduced, that means he did not submit!

There's a third question which is obvious but I will not ask it

Musa(pbuh) had lived amongst the people before our beloved prophet Muhammad(pbuh).Musa(pbuh) knew the problems he faced with the children of Israel.He went away for few days for their sake and they took the calf in worship behind him after all the favors Allah has bestowed on them by rescuing them from Egypt.
Allah told them to slaughter a cow,a very easy deed they went to Musa(pbuh) asking him to describe to them the color,type and how the cow looks like.How will it be if Musa(pbuh) had told them to offer 50 prayers? Will they able to offer it when they had failed in the simple ones?
This is what Musa(pbuh) had seen in the people that made him advised the Prophet(pbuh) about the prayers.And this is true,even 5 daily prayers some people are still not offering them.

Another question, is there a penalty under Sharia for those who fail to observe the 5 daily Solat? I'm already aware of the quranic verses which explain Allah's attitude toward such person.

Weah96: FYI, I'm really curious, so can a practicing Muslim please answer the question. I mean no disrespect to your religion, or beejaay btw. Does Allah forbid Muslims from praying 6X a day? Or is 5 both the minimum and maximum?

Obey Allah and his messenger(pbuh).The Qu'ran says in Surah Al-Ahzab 33:21 Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.The Prophet(pbuh) is the example,he offered 5 fard(obligatory) prayers and muslims should also offer it but you can offer as many as Nawafil(optional) prayers as you like.

@Lanrexlan, you are still not thinking. "Allah" created man weak so he knew man could not sustain worship like his angels. Why did he order 50 solats? If man did 50 solats, you will not have time to work or do anything!

@Maclatunji, Allah is supposed to be all knowing of all things, how come his creation suggests a thing and he adopts his suggestion? And this is not the only time that it happened.

Please, I mean no insult. I am asking you to think.

lanrexlan: [color=#006600]
Musa(pbuh) had lived amongst the people before our beloved prophet Muhammad(pbuh).Musa(pbuh) knew the problems he faced with the children of Israel.

How will it be if Musa(pbuh) had told them to offer 50 prayers? Will they able to offer it when they had failed in the simple ones?

This is what Musa(pbuh) had seen in the people that made him advised the Prophet(pbuh) about the prayers.And this is true,even 5 daily prayers some people are still not offering them.

Ramadhan mubarak! Lanrexlan, I know you are one of those brothers on NL that reasons and dialogue in an intellectual manner.

I'm Very curious about that story of Salat. I recount it as a teenager too. Are those^a tale or recorded story in an "authentic source" or just Ulama's fabrication?

1. Remember the holy prophet (saws) was appointed as a prophet at the age of 40. Was is just a coincidence?

To me, age 40 is a long age to understudy your society. Musa's society is quite different from the holy prophet's society (Jew-Israelite vs Arab). Saying Musa knew people more than Muhammad is illogical. He knew children of Israel not the Arab. Muhammad at age 40 knew his people far better. So Musa is not in a pole position to direct my prophet of what to do against the Arab. Perhaps previous Arab prophet like prophet Salih would have been in a great position.

2. Second, Allah never ordered any Ummah (community) to establish (wajibat - obligatory) salat except the holy prophet's Ummah. So what's the concern of Musa's 50 or 5 salat with children of Israel.

The story of declaration of 50salat then reduced to 5 is a hoax, says the "household of the holy prophet (saws)".

3. Even if Allah ordered Salat once in a day, there people that will never pay heed.

Salam akhi

proo212: @Lanrexlan, you are still not thinking. "Allah" created man weak so he knew man could not sustain worship like his angels. Why did he order 50 solats? If man did 50 solats, you will not have time to work or do anything!

Why did God created Adam if he knew adam will committed sin? Answer that,I answer the first part of your question.

That's it,if man should do 50 solats that means no work,no eating just offering solats.Allah(swt) says in the glorious Qu'ran in Surah Jummuah 62:10 -Then when the Salât (prayer) is ended, you may disperse through the land, and seek the Bounty of Allâh (by working, etc.),and remember Allâh much, that you may be successfulAllah told us,after you offered the prayer seek the bounty of Allah.Had Allah wanted muslims to offer 50 solats or being in constant solat like the angels,then we won't have been given freewill we won't have desires.Angels don't eat they don't have desires,men do and to eat you must work.
You get me bro?

Weah96: What I mean by that is why 5X? Why not 6X or 7X or even 4X? Did the mandate come from Allah or was it arbitrarily decided by the prophet?

First, you should know by now that muslim follow "the book of God and the practice/interpretations of the holy prophet Muhammad (as directed by his Lord)".

This is in line with several verses of the Qur'an:

"Say (O Muhammad), If you (followers) love Allah, follow me (Muhammad)..."

"Obey Allah and His prophet..."

"He does not speak of his own accord...it is inspiration sent to him..."

Second, when Allah declares: "Establish Salat...", Qur'an needn't have to explain how to, since its interpreter is there to practicalize it. Therefore, the prophet (saws) explain and perform the exercise; and that goes down ever since then.

Timing of Salat
Third, Allah specify the time for the salat to be 3:

"Establish regular prayers at the sun's decline Till the darkness of the night, And the morning prayer..."
~Qur'an17:78

How Many Salat
Qur'an did not specify how many. It only ordered it and specify timing of salat.

However, the holy prophet (saws) in many hadith brought 5 salats from his Lord and he established it accordingly:

Salat Fajr - the morning prayer

Salat Zuhr and Asr - sun's decline

Salat Maghrib and Ishai - darkness of the night