Conclusive scholarly opinions on ISIS

Some conclusive scholarly opinions concerning ISIS and their actions


The Syrian conflict has raged on, leaving conscious Muslims experiencing an agonising dilemma: to watch helplessly while thousands are oppressed and killed or to help with whatever is in their capacity. A number of Muslim youth have opted to join the revolt, offering their lives to the cause. This has prompted the government to adopt or suggest punitive actions against them in fear they would become ‘radicalised’.[1] Years prior to this rather uncertain position assumed by the British Government, scholars in Syria and abroad had warned foreigners of travelling to fight in Syria. This was not due to fears of ‘radicalisation’ as these are not substantiated by any empirical evidence, but rather for concerns that the course of the revolution would be hampered since manpower was never required as much as financial and medical resources.[2]
Years into the mass uprising, certain elements sprung up and spread in the revolution, that severely stalled progress against the Syrian regime. In addition to this, certain groups began perpetrating crimes against Syrian fighters through internal provocation and conflict[3] and through targeting aid workers and civilians[4], whilst following a warped reading into Islam unrecognised by countless Syrian and international scholars.[5] [6] Scholars had previously communicated their position to the masses, but their incapacity to take these scholars seriously[7] developed the catastrophe the scholars had warned of. The catastrophe culminated in predominantly misinformed outsiders bolstering the strength of the ‘Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’ (ISIS), duped by the group’s buzz-words (Khilāfah, Bay’ah, Amīr al-Mu’minīn, Hijrah and so on). In reality, if ISIS are not part of Assad’s regime as some claim[8], they have either been severely infiltrated by the regime or their ideology is starkly unrelated to Islam and critically misguided.

ISIS have not only weakened the fighters in Syria against Bashar, but have murdered arbitrators and committed heinous crimes against Muslims. The regime has benefited greatly by the presence of ISIS, even avoiding them in pursuit and attack.[9] ISIS have furthermore shackled the progress of some of the most effective Islamic rebel groups by waging war on them for their refusal to ‘pledge allegiance’ to them and to their warped ideology. The government and media suggest that many of those who have gone to fight in Syria have joined ISIS while recent videos might be seen to confirm these claims.[10] Assuming these claims to be accurate, it becomes binding upon those who are sincere in yearning for an end to the oppression to reveal the unmistakable reality.

Sadly, many eager individuals do not recognise the authority of Syria’s scholars, dismissing their views while accusing others of being “politicised”. Who did they follow and what did they risk? No doubt the scale of the crisis in Syria is unparalleled, thus what is at stake for those who travel there is most probably death. Death will lead to Paradise or the Hellfire. For those who opted to join ISIS, on what basis and through what justification are they willing meet Allāh when this faction has shed the blood of thousands unjustly? The question remains, did these individuals refer to the Book of Allāh, the injunctions of the Messenger salla Allāhu ‘alayh wasalam and the guidance of our leaders in understanding and faith, the recognised scholars of Islam, before embarking on this ākhirah-focused risk? Those who truly care for the course of the revolution and desire that it achieves the best end will categorically stop at the injunction of Allāh if nothing else. If our pride fails to lend Syrian scholars their worth, take the following international statements and verdicts regarding ISIS, issued by the following diverse, prominent scholars.[5] [6]

Most scholars used the Arabic abbreviation ‘Dā’esh’ in reference to ISIS. ‘Dā’esh’ has been substituted for ISIS for the convenience of the reader.

Sheikh Abu Abdullah al-Masry:

Sheikh al-Masry was previously a member of ISIS but withdrew from them on the basis of their ideology and methodology. He justifies his withdrawal by mentioning ISIS’s defamation of the people of Syria, claiming they were ideologically misguided[11], asking how this could be the case if the Prophet salla Allāhu ‘alayh wasalam said: ”If the people of Shaam corrupt, there is no good in you.” The Sheikh adds:

“The behaviour of many elements in ISIS including leaders consistently is offensive towards the people of Syria and its Mujāhidīn, accusing them of misguidance in belief and action.” He further said: “They moreover repeatedly accuse the people of Syria and the Free Syrian Army (FSA) of disbelief (Kufr).”

The Sheikh also argued that ISIS cannot be theoretically classified as Khawārij although practically this may be the case since they throw around accusations of disbelief without evidence and without understanding the gravity of such a charge. Rather, they may indict someone as a disbeliever merely on the grounds of disagreeing with them. Many of them believe that the people of Syria are originally apostates before creating justifications to this effect, raising weapons in their faces for the most trivial of matters.

Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Tarifi:

Sheikh al-Tarifi is a Researcher in the Ministry of Islamic Affairs in Riyadh. The Sheikh is deeply erudite in the sciences of Islam, known for his profound ability to retrieve evidences and issue meticulous verdicts. Among his teachers are Sheikh Abdul Aziz b. Abdullah b. Baz, Faqih Abdullah b. Abdul Aziz b. Aqeel and Sheikh Muhammad b. al-Hasan al-Shanqeeti. The sheikh has an extensive number of printed works.[12]

He states:

“It is impermissible for anyone to make his group or party a milestone against which loyalty and hostility are measured, such that he believes that allegiance and leadership should belong to him exclusively. Whoever believes that sole allegiance applies to him (or his party) from amongst all Muslims, then upon him apply the words of Allāh: “Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad salla Allāh ‘alayh wasalam) have no concern in them in the least.”[13]“

The Sheikh added: “it is incorrect that while in a state of fighting and factions that one group should request individual and general allegiance and all that it entails. The allegiance is to the Jihād, constancy, patience and reform. It is incorrect that one individual who leads a particular faction to call himself Amīr al-Mu’minīn (the leader of the Believers), rather he should call himself the leader of the army, the battalion or the battle. General leadership is determined by Shūrā (consultation) between believers, not for an individual to assume. Titles cause exclusivity that can lead to dispute, conflict, strife and evil… [Therefore], participating with ISIS so long as it does not agree with the law of Allāh, independent of it is impermissible.”

Sheikh Sulaiman b. Nasser al-Alwan:

The Sheikh began pursuing knowledge at the age of fifteen. He has written comprehensive explanations of Hadīth books including Sahīh al-Bukhari, Jāmi’ Abū Issa al-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abī Dāwūd, Muwata’ Mālik among many others.[14] He quotes:

“Al-Baghdadi is not the Khalīfah of the Muslims for him to do whatever he pleases; rather he is a leader of a faction. Requesting a pledge of allegiance, killing those who refuse is the action of an aggressor, not the action of a person of good and righteousness.” He further said: “If his own leader does not agree with his actions, how can he expect allegiance from others?”

Sheikh Muhammad b. Salih al-Munajjid:

Sheikh Mohammad al-Munajjid is a renowned scholar of Islam with an array of recognised works (including IslamQA.com). His teachers include Sheikh Abdul Aziz b. Abdullah b. Baz, Sheikh Abdullah b. Abdul Rahman b. Jibreen and Sheikh Abdul Rahman al-Barrak. He is currently the imām of the Mosque of Omar b. Abdul Aziz al-Khobar.[15] He says:

“If a group thinks, for example, that it has established the Islamic state, its leader is the ‘Leader of the Believers’, that he should be listened to and obeyed by everyone, that anyone not under his command has rebelled against him, that [this ‘state’] has the authority to draw up borders, elect leaders over towns, that it has authority over public wealth, petrol, wheat and so on, that others should forcefully submit to them while they can stop whoever they want, that they have the sole authority of establishing Islamic courts and judges and that every court besides theirs is void, it has deviated. This will no doubt create competition over control of regions and eventually lead to a great Fitnah and bloodshed.”
'

Sheikh Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi:

Sheikh Muhammad al-Maqdisi is considered the guide of the ‘Jihadist Salafist’ movement in Jordan. His name is Issam Barqawi but is famously known as Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi. Far from siding with ISIS,[16] he says in a letter to the Mujāhidīn of Syria after hearing of ISIS and their behaviour with other fighters:

“…and we do not feel ashamed to declare that we are free from the actions of those who dare spill the blood of Muslims whoever they may be.” He further added: “How can you be expected to accommodate all Syrians including Christians and other sects [if you cannot even accommodate other Muslims]?”

Dr. Hassan Saleh b. Hamid:

Dr. Hassan Saleh has a PhD in the principles of Fiqh and Sharī’ah, he is the Director of the Institute of Higher Islamic Education at the Umm Al-Qura University in Makkah and is a Member of the (Islamic) Advisory council.[17] He says:

“No one going to Syria to fight is excused to be part of al-Baghadi’s faction for even a moment… they are a faction that brings Fitnah, whenever they are called to a court for religious arbitration they turn away and whenever a truce is declared, they reignite the war.”

Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Fawzan:

Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Fawzan is a member of the Council for Human Rights, a Professor in Islamic Jurisprudence and the Head of the Department of Comparative Jurisprudence at the Islamic University of Imam Muhammad b. Saud in Saudi Arabia.[18] He says:

“ISIS is a rogue, external criminal organisation. Whoever knows of what afflicted us in Iraq and Afghanistan and the blood that was spilled unjustly at the hands of some ignorant individuals in our nation will understand the gravity of what is happening in Syria.”

Dr. Abdul Karim Bakkar:
Dr. Abdul Karim Bakkar is one of the leading authors in the field of education and Islamic thought, who seeks to provide a deep-rooted analysis into matters concerning Islamic civilisation, renaissance and Da’wah. He has more than 40 books in this area. Dr. Abdul Karim Bakkar is a member of the Advisory Board for the Islam Today magazine (Riyadh).[19] He says:

“I met a number of students of knowledge and Islamic jurists returning from Syria. I swear by the One besides whom there is no god that the only thing they spoke about were the repulsive actions of ISIS and their crimes. ISIS and the Assad regime are two faces of one evil.”

Dr. Shafi al-Ajmi:

Dr. Al-Ajmi sought knowledge under the supervision of Sheikh Muhammad b. Saalih and Sheikh Yahya al-Yahya. He studied at the University of Imam Muhammad b. Saud and is now the Imām of al-Ghazali Mosque in Kuwait.[20]He quotes:

“I have not heard of a single scholar inside or outside of Syria who has praised this faction, had good suspicion of them or defended them, rather they have unanimously agreed that they are aggressors. Al-Baghdadi’s aim, since entering Syria is to weaken the fighters and he has indeed weakened al-Nusra Front and Ahraar al-Shaam and continues to do so.”

Sheikh Abu Basir al-Tartusi:

Sheikh Abu Basir al-Tartusi has played the effective role of the Syrian revolution’s Mufti. It is said that Sheikh al-Tartusi was the first Arab fighter to travel to Afghanistan in 1981, accompanying Abdullah Azzam on one of his trips. He has authored many books and is the founder of several of the revolution’s coordination groups.[21] He says:

“The group known as ISIS are from the fanatical Khawārij, rather they have surpassed the Khawārij in many of their characteristics and actions, combining between fanaticism, aggression, hostility and shedding inviolable blood.” He further said: “We call upon all sincere individuals who have been fooled by them while still with this misguided group to severe their ties with it and to declare their freedom from it and its actions.”

Sheikh Abdullah Saad:

The Sheikh and notable Muhadtih Abdullah b. Abdul Rahman b. Mohammed Al-Saad Al-Mutairi is one of those at the forefront of 20th and 21st century Muslim scholars. His teachers include, Sheikh Abdul Aziz b. Baz, Sheikh Mohammed b. Saalih and Sheikh Abdullah b. Abdul Rahman al-Jibreen. He has authored tens of books and has explanations of Bukhāri, Sunan Abī Dāwūd, Jāmi’ al-Tirmithi and others.[22]He says:

“I plea to whoever joined this faction (ISIS) to leave it and move away from it, and for its leaders to return to the truth and to repent to Allāh from the grave mistakes they have fallen into…”

Sheikh Abdullah al-Mahiseny:

Sheikh al-Mahiseny is a specialist in Islamic Jurisprudence, acquiring a PhD in Comparative Fiqh in the subject: “Rulings Concerning War Refugees in Islamic Jurisprudence.”[23] He says:

“By Allāh, I have never witnessed the scholars who speak about matters of Jihād agree on criticising and opposing a Muslim movement as they have agreed on condemning ISIS.” Sheikh Mahiseny concluded by saying: “I implore you by Allāh O Baghdadi to allow a general Islamic court mediate to uphold the injunctions of Allāh.”

Sheikh Adnan Mohammed al-Aroor:

Sheikh Adnan al-Aroor is currently the Director of Research and Publishing in Riyadh. He grew up seeking knowledge in Syria under several scholars including Sheikh al-Albani and Sheikh b. Baz.[24] He is one of the most notable scholarly icons of the Syrian revolution and has a multitude of published works. Sheikh al-Aroor says, directing his question at ISIS:

“Did Allāh set conditions that must be met before accepting that the Qur’ān arbitrate [in the affairs of difference]? Then where did you get these conditions [that you set] from? Why do you leave military fronts such as Homs and dedicate your efforts to the areas near the Turkish borders? … Who are the people of religious authority (ahl al-hal wal-’aqd) who you consulted before establishing your ‘state’? Do you aim to overthrow the sectarian dictator or to fight others [who want to achieve this]? … What is your Islamic proof that justifies your pledge to someone unknown?”[25] He furthermore states: “ISIS are either Khawārij or infiltrated by the [Syrian] regime. It is composed of three groups of people: brutal Takfīrīs, wicked infiltrators and people deceived by them.”

The Scholars of Aleppo Front:

The Scholars of Aleppo Front issued a statement encouraging the sincere members of ISIS to leave this faction and join the legitimate revolutionary forces in Syria for the crime that has been perpetrated by this group, including:

Accusations of disbelief (takfīr), their shedding of inviolable blood without a second thought, kidnappings and documented armed robberies of weapons and ammunition from other rebel factions, their refusal to allow the Sharī’ah to arbitrate between them and the other factions and sowing the seeds of discord between fighers. ISIS’s takfīr sometimes extend to the entire population of Syria. This includes takfīr boldly levelled at the Free Syrian Army, accusing Ahraar al-Shaam that they are misguided ‘Surūrīs’ and that al-Nusra Front have defied their alleged ‘Khalīfah’.[26]

A Joint Statement of 47 Scholars in Saudi Arabia
Including Al-Ghunaymaan, Al-‘Umar, Al-Mahmoud and Al-Jalali Al-Mahmoud

The joint statement asserted that it is impermissible and of tyranny for one faction to impose itself as the only holder of legitimacy and that it is necessary that all other groups pledge allegiance to it without consulting the Muslims, otherwise they become of the Khawārij and their blood becomes permissible. It argued that this is the main reason for divisions and internal fighting. Sheikh Hamoud b. Ali al-Omari added: “The reality of the matter is, every drop of blood shed between the (rebel) factions in Syria is due to al-Baghdadi’s refusal to allow the Sharī’ah to arbitrate while implementing his own innovated Sharī’ah.”

There is no act, the punishment for which has been mentioned more sternly than that of killing a believer intentionally where a collection of five severe retributions have been listed:

“But whoever kills a believer intentionally – his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allāh has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment.”[27]

Conclusion

Above are only some of the verdicts issued against ISIS by leading Muslim scholars. Such an agreement between scholars, analysts and intellectuals should shake the heart of any individual who has participated in hampering the revolutionary effort while imposing an innovated ideology on its people. This neither pleases Allāh nor is it to the betterment of Syria. Syrians are in no need of further repression. Sincere individuals who have joined ISIS believing it endorses the true purpose of Islam should rush to change course and avoid further gambling with their permanent abode and with a Syrian future that balances on a knife’s edge.

www.islam21c.com/politics/conclusive-scholarly-opinions-on-isis/

Notes:
This article is presented for information purposes, and is not an official view of MRDF or Islam21c.
[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/growing-fears-over-britons-radicalised-in-syrian-conflict-9132268.html
[2] http://www.islam21c.com/politics/8744-a-plea-from-syria/
[3] http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/01/07/Al-Qaeda-groups-fight-each-other-in-Syria.html
[4] http://www.thejournal.ie/syria-aid-workers-missing-1249026-Jan2014/
[5] http://eldorar.net/science/article/9246
[6] http://www.almokhtsar.com/news/ Title/author: أقوال العلماء والدعاة في داعش / إبراهيم بن عبد الرحمن التركي
[7] http://www.islam21c.com/politics/association-of-syrian-scholars-on-isils-actions/
[8] http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-islamic-state-of-iraq-and-the-levant-isil-vs-syrias-moderate-al-qaeda-terrorists/5365981
[9] http://syriageneva2.org/?p=242&lang=en
[10] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27947343
[11] http://aseft-alshamal.org/?p=1107
[12] http://ar.islamway.net/scholar/1223
[13] Al-Qur’ān 6:159
[14] http://ar.islamway.net/scholar/245
[15] http://ar.islamway.net/scholar/44
[16] http://www.aljazeera.net/news/pages/84a822d8-0f92-4ed0-8225-972bccf35cdc
[17] http://ibnhomaid.af.org.sa/
[18] https://twitter.com/Abdulazizfawzan
[19] http://www.drbakkar.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=53
[20] http://islam-call.com/authors/v/id/1228/
[21] http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/201838
[22] http://www.alssad.com/publish/article_39.shtml
[23] http://mhesne.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=121
[24] https://www.paldf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=614220
[25] http://albadee.net/news/12989/
[26] http://halabnews.com/news/42813
[27] Qur’ān 4:93

Alhamdulilah, the religious and intellectual ground for Isis to stand on has been removed leaving only a hideous ideology for Isis!

Takfiri - the muslim brain tumor.

Tariq Ramadan (official)

ETHICS OF ISRAEL
The Israeli government says that the burning of an Israeli teenager was the work of "extremists" and not part of its "ethics" ... Indeed, its "ethics" entails bombing civilians and destroying by tens,hundreds, and in the recent past by the thousands. It is much
more "noble"!

The international community has"obviously"
understood : it is the right of Israel to defend themselves against rockets that their technology allows them to destroy and / or divert flight.

The ethics of the State of Israel, from all political parties, is imposed on the world and Arab governments, as Asian and Western fold hypocritically. And because this hypocrisy is shared, and international, human beings and citizens around the world should make it an international cause of defending the dignity of our humanity.

u see, bros, u gonna have to reason with Baqir. i have been sharing "shia" political views for 5yrs now. They are correct (of course, not all the time). But the reason i silent on his posts sometimes is bcus of his sectarian brouhaha. But i think he's calming down now. Is it any wonder these sheiks now distancing themselves from those thugs called isis?. I said it before that we knew this bogus caliphate was coming. It was clear as daylight. Thats what Z wanted. Now they get it.

Well, am glad muslims distance themselves from them because isis will eventually embarrass islam and muslims. And believe it or not isis are dancing Z tunes. Thats not conspiracy theory. God Almighty gave us brain to analyses realities, events ahead of us. That doesnt mean we playing God if we analyses "future events". Even some non muslims understand this. Alex Jones for example figured out really quick that isis is Z propaganda. On yahoonews, muslims and non muslims called them pseudo caliphate which means they understand them to be bogus. But why is it that our brothers here dont understand that?. I honestly refused to call them (just) extremists. Thats not enough. It's important to call them what they are. They are zionists funded fanatics fighting Yankee j/ha/d against fellow muslims. Yet they mute while israel slaughtered Palestinians. Sometimes we have to call a spade a spade.

I have dramatically reduced my online chats over the past 4yrs cus internet has long memory ( if u know what i mean). I definitely agree with Baqir in many things he says bcus they are inline with "sunni" ahadith. I'd prefer not to comment in most cases on his post. I just dont want this turn in to sectarian stuff again pls.

Aligning yourself with scholars is an easy fallback. It keeps you from ever considering the possiblity of being wrong. The militants have their own scholars too and i believe this ISIS affairs cannot be explained away by the OP 's scholars as "misguided Islamist movement, lacking any scholastic approval".

In the 60s, Milestones, an Islamic work was published. It layed down plans for recreating an Islamic state or caliphate, declaring the current muslim world has fallen for corrupt western influences and this must be fixed by starting a vanguard, preaching and forcibly establishing a sharia governed Islamic caliphate which must be continously explanded by conquest of other territories. I see a compliance of this by ISIS, building a clerical side for preaching her own version of Islam, radicalising muslims and building a Jihadist side that is ever ready to slaughter any person, community or government that is unwilling to establish the sharia.
Milestones was authored by Sayyid Qutb, an Islamic writer and thinker highly influencial in the 20th century muslim era. If you want to tap into the inner psyche of Islamist terrors in your street or militants in your country, i recommend this it.

^Sayyid Qutb wrote Milestone whilst he was in prison. A book under certain conditions and motives cannot judge the understanding and foundation of the kind of Islamic system of government ISIS embark on.

Sayyid Qutb wrote many other books but politics swept them under the carpet. Mind you, even as pure as the holy Qur'an, takfir use many verses in it to justify their many abominable acts.

Like Qur'an says: "...as for those in whose heart there is a disease, they cling to the ambiguous verse (in the Quran) in order to cause tribulations..."

Empiree: u see, bros, u gonna have to reason with Baqir. i have been sharing "shia" political views for 5yrs now. They are correct (of course, not all the time). But the reason i silent on his posts sometimes is bcus of his sectarian brouhaha. But i think he's calming down now. Is it any wonder these sheiks now distancing themselves from those thugs called isis?. I said it before that we knew this bogus caliphate was coming. It was clear as daylight. Thats what Z wanted. Now they get it.

It is good u call it a political view, meaning it has a political consequence in essence designed to further a political objective by politising issues
! But political rhetorics or views have never been known to solve any problem, they designed basically to lead the mases to an end point or create an illusion for them to see. While it is your freedom to subscribe to any political view you like, I will always point out garbage when I see it, Baqir posted a pix that mocks his own position, Iranian and even Iraq shiites and hezbollah are also flooding Syria to fight at the behest of a shia tyrant, we wonder why they have not tried flooding Gaza to fight for those oppressed? In essence the picture simultaneously tell the story of shiites who rather than fight zionist used every strenght in their body to defend a shia tyrant. In the political view u subcribed to, the shia finds their political objectives in syria must be defended at any cost while the gazans can go ahead and die! Like I said its all politics. When u say sheiks are now distancing themselves I think it is an abuse of english, as at no point did any of the shieks thaba cited ever supported isis. when people keep blaming zionists for every thing, I feel we should learn to face reality, in the ME zionists are to blame for everything, consequently it becomes apparent that this talk of zionist has been a convenient cover for various dictators to shield themselves and divert attention from the people they lead! Isis was able to get this strong because Assad regime deliberately allowed it to fester to the extent that isis began killing memebers of the syrian opposition while refusing to fight the assad regime thereby undermining the Syrians opposition.

Empiree:
Well, am glad muslims distance themselves from them because isis will eventually embarrass islam and muslims. And believe it or not isis are dancing Z tunes. Thats not conspiracy theory. God Almighty gave us brain to analyses realities, events ahead of us. That doesnt mean we playing God if we analyses "future events". Even some non muslims understand this. Alex Jones for example figured out really quick that isis is Z propaganda. On yahoonews, muslims and non muslims called them pseudo caliphate which means they understand them to be bogus. But why is it that our brothers here dont understand that?. I honestly refused to call them (just) extremists. Thats not enough. It's important to call them what they are. They are zionists funded fanatics fighting Yankee j/ha/d against fellow muslims. Yet they mute while israel slaughtered Palestinians. Sometimes we have to call a spade a spade.

The same way most muslims are mute about the suffering of muslims in xijang in china, muslims were the majority, it was their homeland, china forcefully ceased it and populated it with their own people now muslims there are only 45% if the population do we now call muslims generally speaking Chinese? No, isis is a smart organisation, they take advantage of politically expedient situation the same way the Iranian regime continues to rave and rant about zionists and israel yet till date it has never fired a single shot at them!! I think muslims should learn to refrain from holding unto too much conspiracy theory stuff, and face reality.

Empiree:
I have dramatically reduced my online chats over the past 4yrs cus internet has long memory ( if u know what i mean). I definitely agree with Baqir in many things he says bcus they are inline with "sunni" ahadith. I'd prefer not to comment in most cases on his post. I just dont want this turn in to sectarian stuff again pls.

The truth remains every govt. In the ME milks the Palestine issue for political capital, hence they are more interested on how they use Palestines to further their own political objectives! By claiming to oppose zionist, these redolent regimes have continued to create the impression that they are fighting an external enemy thereby diverting attention from their many evil deeds against their own people!

usermane: Aligning yourself with scholars is an easy fallback. It keeps you from ever considering the possiblity of being wrong. The militants have their own scholars too and i believe this ISIS affairs cannot be explained away by the OP 's scholars as "misguided Islamist movement, lacking any scholastic approval".

In the 60s, Milestones, an Islamic work was published. It layed down plans for recreating an Islamic state or caliphate, declaring the current muslim world has fallen for corrupt western influences and this must be fixed by starting a vanguard, preaching and forcibly establishing a sharia governed Islamic caliphate which must be continously explanded by conquest of other territories. I see a compliance of this by ISIS, building a clerical side for preaching her own version of Islam, radicalising muslims and building a Jihadist side that is ever ready to slaughter any person, community or government that is unwilling to establish the sharia.
Milestones was authored by Sayyid Qutb, an Islamic writer and thinker highly influencial in the 20th century muslim era. If you want to tap into the inner psyche of Islamist terrors in your street or militants in your country, i recommend this it.

the op clearly explains the un-Islamic nature of what isis have done! Normally people like u rely on simplistic views to explain issues that have a lot of intricacies, while it is true a lot of muslims want the restoration of the caliphate most muslims easily see through the extremism and criminality of isis, isis rise happened due to a variety of reasons chief of which is the failed state syria has become. Isis didn't just read sayyid qubt book and said let's go set up a caliphate, that's how simplistic your view on this sound!

vedaxcool: the op clearly explains the un-Islamic nature of what isis have done! Normally people like u rely on simplistic views to explain issues that have a lot of intricacies, while it is true a lot of muslims want the restoration of the caliphate most muslims easily see through the extremism and criminality of isis, isis rise happened due to a variety of reasons chief of which is the failed state syria has become. Isis didn't just read sayyid qubt book and said let's go set up a caliphate, that simplistic your view on this sound!

exactly...

vedaxcool:
the op clearly explains the un-Islamic nature of what isis have done! Normally people like u rely on simplistic views to explain issues that have a lot of intricacies

He only posted the views of those scholars. I wanted to imply that his scholar may not be another man 's scholar. How is that so simplistic? He didn't invoke any scriptural verse, go read the the works of most of these militants. They are filled with references from hadith, Ijma and Quran on occasions. The war on terrorism is a war of ideas. You can't win by just yelling; "killing the innocent is un islamic, a caliph cannot be installed without general consultation, bla bla, bla".

Isis didn't just read sayyid qubt book and said let's go set up a caliphate, that 's how simplistic your view on this sound!

Have you read the book or not? Top Islamist militants like Bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahiri have cited this book as a source of inspiration and yet you tell me that i hold a simplistic view? Am yet to find any book authored by one of your sages that soundly refute this book just as they debunk democracy or gender equality.

AlBaqir: A book under certain conditions and motives cannot judge the
understanding and foundation of the kind of Islamic system of
government ISIS embark on.

Am reminding posters that there are scholars that recognise ISIS ideology as Islamic. I didn't mean Milestone is a credible Islamic source.

Sayyid Qutb wrote many other books but politics swept them under the carpet.

But milestone was his final work. There, he ditched his more tolerant views for extreme, militant ones. That 's why he supported the coup to violently oust prowestern Egyptian government towards the end of his days.

Mind you, even as pure as the holy Qur'an, takfir use many verses in it to justify their many abominable acts.

seconded.

usermane:
He only posted the views of those scholars. I wanted to imply that his scholar may not be another man 's scholar. How is that so simplistic? He didn't invoke any scriptural verse, go read the the works of most of these militants. They are filled with references from hadith, Ijma and Quran on occasions. The war on terrorism is a war of ideas. You can't win by just yelling; "killing the innocent is un islamic, a caliph cannot be installed without general consultation, bla bla, bla".


Have you read the book or not? Top Islamist militants like Bin Laden, Ayman al Zawahiri have cited this book as a source of inspiration and yet you tell me that i hold a simplistic view? Am yet to find any book authored by one of your sages that soundly refute this book just as they debunk democracy or gender equality.

To be honest u are still dancing in circles, terrorist always have a political objective. And no I have only read part of the book, and the path I have read didn't seem to call for extremism. Your views are patently simplistic, and shows no understanding of what terrorism is really about, people like Osama clearly fight for political objectives, how? Osama claims were that western govt installed puppets to rule over muslim land, hence to get them to stop supporting such govt. Osama resulted to terrorism to compel a change in foreign policies of such govt., this has always been the corner stone of terrorism. To simplify it and blame a single book for it occurrence is simply being economical with the truth. Somehow u make it seem as if u have finished watching a session of foxnews.

AlBaqir: Tariq Ramadan (official)

ETHICS OF ISRAEL
The Israeli government says that the burning of an Israeli teenager was the work of "extremists" and not part of its "ethics" ... Indeed, its "ethics" entails bombing civilians and destroying by tens,hundreds, and in the recent past by the thousands. It is much
more "noble"!

The international community has"obviously"
understood : it is the right of Israel to[b] defend themselves against rockets that their technology allows them to destroy and / or divert flight.
[/b]
The ethics of the State of Israel, from all political parties, is imposed on the world and Arab governments, as Asian and Western fold hypocritically. And because this hypocrisy is shared, and international, human beings and citizens around the world should make it an international cause of defending the dignity of our humanity.

Just to correct your Misconception; Israel's Missile Defense System(Iron Dome) does not have infinite Capacity for deflecting Missiles launched at Israel,it has limited Range, among other Factors,which enable some Rockets pass through to hit Israeli Territory.

Another Thing is your deliberate closing of Eyes to the Fact that the Number of Rockets launched against Israel is much higher than those launched by Israel, and that Hamas,Palestinian Islamic Jihad,Fatah and co,launch these Rockets indiscriminately into Civilian Population Centers... I'm sure that does not go against your own Conception of the "Dignity of our Humanity",does it?

I do not support all the Actions Israel is taking in Palestine,but in this Rocket Matter,I believe they are taking a too-soft Line,If I made the Policies over there,it would be one Rocket for each one launched from Gaza,regardless of whether it was intercepted by the Missile Shield.

Don't play Hardball if you're not willing to catch.

koonbey:

Just to correct your Misconception; Israel's Missile Defense System(Iron Dome) does not have infinite Capacity for deflecting Missiles launched at Israel,it has limited Range, among other Factors,which enable some Rockets pass through to hit Israeli Territory.

Another Thing is your deliberate closing of Eyes to the Fact that the Number of Rockets launched against Israel is much higher than those launched by Israel, and that Hamas,Palestinian Islamic Jihad,Fatah and co,launch these Rockets indiscriminately into Civilian Population Centers... I'm sure that does not go against your own Conception of the "Dignity of our Humanity",does it?

I do not support all the Actions Israel is taking in Palestine,but in this Rocket Matter,I believe they are taking a too-soft Line,If I made the Policies over there,it would be one Rocket for each one launched from Gaza,regardless of whether it was intercepted by the Missile Shield.

Don't play Hardball if you're not willing to catch.

Indeed!

Al Jazeera English

Interactive: Since Israeli disengagement from the #Gaza in 2005, it has launched three major offensives against the strip of land, including the ongoing Operation Protective Edge.

By the end of the last offensive, 2,332 Palestinians and 61 Israelis had been killed as a result of direct conflict in Gaza.

Take a look at #GazaUnderAttack: http://aje.me/1sLv6bT

.

^^^
you are derailing this thread. Open a thread for your question or post in "side talk station thread"

.

koonbey:


Another Thing is your deliberate closing of Eyes to the Fact that the Number of Rockets launched against Israel is much higher than those launched by Israel, and that Hamas,Palestinian Islamic Jihad,Fatah and co,launch these Rockets indiscriminately into Civilian Population Centers... I'm sure that does not go against your own Conception of the "Dignity of our Humanity",does it?

I do not support all the Actions Israel is taking in Palestine,but in this Rocket Matter,I believe they are taking a too-soft Line,If I made the Policies over there,it would be one Rocket for each one launched from Gaza,regardless of whether it was intercepted by the Missile Shield.

This unrest in the ME is more political than religious.

vedaxcool... Spot on.

@koonbey.

Such nice thoughts you would think but you forget that this same problems will continue to reoccur over and over again. One wants a stoppage of encroachment and construction on disputed lands and International recognition of it as a State the other vehemently refutes this position and continues to expand into disputed areas even after having their own state and blocks the other into a hole shutting off water supplies, blocking food aids and the freedom of the other. You don't need to be a surgeon to know who's the bully here.

I don't really support the throwing of rockets by both parties but you need to feel for the hapless civilians in palestine. You can't blame them for Hamas hiding it stockpile in their midst and launching attacks from there. If you are in a war zone and militants put a gun to your head to either allow them use your property or not. It is a "are you for us or against us " case (i.e die). I hope you tell them no.

This innocent civilians israel is shooting at can't escape the conflict because of the barricade neither would israel allow a two state solution so each can be sovereign and take their own decisions and determine their future.
If you ask me. They are culpable for all civilian deaths that results from this because they have been the one to have renege twice now in a row when multi party peace talks were called to find a lasting solution to the issue.

Empiree: .

how come you deleted this post? I was going to respond, did anything discourage you?

usermane:
how come you deleted this post? I was going to respond, did anything discourage you?

Sorry, i thought u not interested. So i'd rather delete it. Did u find it interesting?, Well, i will try re-posting it as soon as i get the chance. Right now, busy back n fourth to mosque. At least u read it, isnt?

AlBaqir:

Indeed!

Al Jazeera English

Interactive: Since Israeli disengagement from the #Gaza in 2005, it has launched three major offensives against the strip of land, including the ongoing Operation Protective Edge.

By the end of the last offensive, 2,332 Palestinians and 61 Israelis had been killed as a result of direct conflict in Gaza.

Take a look at #GazaUnderAttack: http://aje.me/1sLv6bT

You don't understand my Point; I understand that Palestine bears more Casualties,but the Truth is that most of Israel's Military Actions are defensive in Nature,and it's just too bad that Palestine does not have the same Defensive Infrastructure that Israel has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel History shows that most of the Wars fought by the State of Israel have been as a result of attempted Invasion by the Arab Bloc,multiple States attacking at once,can you then blame the hapless Israeli People if they decide to take the hardline?

I'm not trying to cast Israel as the Victim here,however; the Way People vilify her on this Forum is too much,especially seeing as a lot of People do so without adequate cognizance of the Facts,or deliberately disregard them.... I am only balancing the Scales,not justifying any Person's Actions,only God can do that.

onegig: This unrest in the ME is more political than religious.

vedaxcool... Spot on.

@koonbey.

Such nice thoughts you would think but you forget that this same problems will continue to reoccur over and over again. One wants a stoppage of encroachment and construction on disputed lands and International recognition of it as a State the other vehemently refutes this position and continues to expand into disputed areas even after having their own state and blocks the other into a hole shutting off water supplies, blocking food aids and the freedom of the other. You don't need to be a surgeon to know who's the bully here.

I don't really support the throwing of rockets by both parties but you need to feel for the hapless civilians in palestine. You can't blame them for Hamas hiding it stockpile in their midst and launching attacks from there. If you are in a war zone and militants put a gun to your head to either allow them use your property or not. It is a "are you for us or against us " case (i.e die). I hope you tell them no.

This innocent civilians israel is shooting at can't escape the conflict because of the barricade neither would israel allow a two state solution so each can be sovereign and take their own decisions and determine their future.
If you ask me. They are culpable for all civilian deaths that results from this because they have been the one to have renege twice now in a row when multi party peace talks were called to find a lasting solution to the issue.

I agree with the first bolded,I had read that Israel was exploring for Oil in occupied Territory and frankly; I was very distressed,that just shouldn't be.

The second Section I bolded is full of Misconceptions,the greatest Hindrance to Peace in the Middle East is not Israel,but rather the Terrorist Groups like Hamas,Hezbollah and co,these Groups are more interested in achieving Notoriety and Power in their Respective States than in achieving Peace,after-all;If Peace was achieved,what need would there be for them? In March this Year,Israel intercepted a Ship stocked full of Rockets heading for Gaza,and that I think is a Quintessence of the Order of Priorities of the "Nationalist Groups"

How committed do you expect any Party to be to Negotiations in the Face of continual,indiscriminate Rocket Barrages on its Citizens?

koonbey:

I agree with the first bolded,I had read that Israel was exploring for Oil in occupied Territory and frankly; I was very distressed,that just shouldn't be.

The second Section I bolded is full of Misconceptions,the greatest Hindrance to Peace in the Middle East is not Israel,but rather the Terrorist Groups like Hamas,Hezbollah and co,these Groups are more interested in achieving Notoriety and Power in their Respective States than in achieving Peace,after-all;If Peace was achieved,what need would there be for them? In March this Year,Israel intercepted a Ship stocked full of Rockets heading for Gaza,and that I think is a Quintessence of the Order of Priorities of the "Nationalist Groups"

How committed do you expect any Party to be to Negotiations in the Face of continual,indiscriminate Rocket Barrages on its Citizens?

You haven't heard israeli leaders talk i bet? They make it seem like the palestinians are lesser humans not worthy of living. All these talks rockets or no rockets thrown is just mere beating around the bush and avoiding the main issues here.

Let israel return to the discussion table and accept a two party state, withdrawing from disputed lands and allowing freedom for the people. Even US which is their staunch supporter have reiterated this point over and over again. Why would they choose to be bullies always?

What the multitude of people who continue defending israel fail to understand is the more you keep on pounding under the disguise of defending your people the more you raise more Armies and volunteers for hamas and extending the long lists of your enemies.

onegig: You haven't heard israeli leaders talk i bet? They make it seem like the palestinians are lesser humans not worthy of living. All these talks rockets or no rockets thrown is just mere beating around the bush and avoiding the main issues here.

Let israel return to the discussion table and accept a two party state, withdrawing from disputed lands and allowing freedom for the people. Even US which is their staunch supporter have reiterated this point over and over again. Why would they choose to be bullies always?

What the multitude of people who continue defending israel fail to understand is the more you keep on pounding under the disguise of defending your people the more you raise more Armies and volunteers for hamas and extending the long lists of your enemies.

This is ridiculous, which Party calls the other "Apes and Swine"? Which Set of People have repeatedly stated their Wish to annihilate Israel? Which Set of People actively supported Adolf Hitler's Holocaust,sending Troops and Clerics to "bless" them?

Give me a Link to any Online Resource where Israeli Leaders talked in a debasing Manner about Palestinians.

Of everything I pointed out,you didn't tackle any,but rather came to reiterate your earlier Positions,with no new Basis for them; That's wonderful.

koonbey:

This is ridiculous, which Party calls the other "Apes and Swine"? Which Set of People have repeatedly stated their Wish to annihilate Israel? Which Set of People actively supported Adolf Hitler's Holocaust,sending Troops and Clerics to "bless" them?

Give me a Link to any Online Resource where Israeli Leaders talked in a debasing Manner about Palestinians.

Of everything I pointed out,you didn't tackle any,but rather came to reiterate your earlier Positions,with no new Basis for them; That's wonderful.

you think this about me trying to defend a position? All i care about is peace and as of now Israel holds the ace to making that work out.

If you want links to their pitiable comments there are tons of them. Even their activity of using f16 precision fighter jets to phosphorus bombs alone shows how much they "love" the palestinian civilians. Or have you forgotten the bombing of a UN building which housed children and women the last time such a fiasco broke out? I guess if it were syria or iran that did the same thing the usual war mongers would have carried their beats out and not lets us hear word about a dictator and would have earnestly start pushing for a military intervention with their useless "red lines". Stop being blind to all these acts of oppression. You should have a conscience please.

Lets say hamas stops throwing mortars into israel. What happens next? What would israel do? Go on and continue the building of settlements in disputed areas, seizing flottilas and killing sailors and humanitarians delivering aid to these hapless people? All these past few months that tensions have been minimal what did Israel do? Turn away from dialogue so they could extend the embargo on building new settlements? Ain't it what they have been doing?

Also tell me what's in it for the palestinians? Isn't the life they live not worse enough? Please eschew bias and say things the way they are.

I wish these attacks would seize forever but we can't achieve true peace when we shy away from telling ourselves the bitter truth.

Empiree:

Sorry, i thought u not interested. So i'd rather delete it. Did u find it interesting?, Well, i will try re-posting it as soon as i get the chance. Right now, busy back n fourth to mosque. At least u read it, isnt?

after reading it, i felt the need to ponder on a clear response. The second question on 'my obscession with muslims' is a brainer and i required the time to think.
Am an adherent of sola scriptura, I used to be an orthodox muslim but that was untill last year.
I don't have an obscession with muslims. I write and criticise the Christians too. 'Obscession' is an inappropriate word. I do what i do because, being an ex orthodox muslim, i 've discovered that what is been taught as Islam today is far away from what Muhammad taught. Lots of distortions, manipulations and adulteration has been done to the original, enlightening and progressive teachings of Islam by the very people who claim adherence to it.

usermane:


Am an adherent of sola scriptura,

I think in another word you sound like those "Qur'anities ". Are you simply that?. I don't necessarily agree with everything in the ahadith. But you don't have to go from one extreme to another. Thats what you did. Hadith is just like bible ( mixed with falsehood). And you can't deny there are ahadith that conformed with Qur'an, do you?. Ulama of Islam know that but it's too late now to take those false ahadith off record. Well, I respect Ramadan lots. I detest argument in its hrs. I have to leave it here for now. And since you read my earlier post I don't have to repost it. fair enough?

koonbey:

This is ridiculous, which Party calls the other "Apes and Swine"? Which Set of People have repeatedly stated their Wish to annihilate Israel? Which Set of People actively supported Adolf Hitler's Holocaust,sending Troops and Clerics to "bless" them?

Give me a Link to any Online Resource where Israeli Leaders talked in a debasing Manner about Palestinians.

Of everything I pointed out,you didn't tackle any,but rather came to reiterate your earlier Positions,with no new Basis for them; That's wonderful.

I think you are been bias, do you expect the isreali leaders to come out and start confessing about their atrocities? The Palestinians are literally prisoners on their own land, living on an open-air prison.... If you wanna get real facts, ask the Palestinians or sincere people who have been there... You might wanna check out this link and see what goes down in Palestine. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4761896