I do not believe religion condems one to a life of poverty. If it does, how will you follow the Gods commandment to help and provide for the needy. A lazy man is a lazy man, religion or not. There are wealthy atheists who live morally upright lives, far better than most religious icons like pastors priests imams etc.
Religion is no excuse for poverty and laziness. Pastors are not poor. Why should you be?

TheBigUrban2:




Yet, the same christians are defending the riches of the catholic church and also private jet pastors

I think strongly that there is a difference between a christian and a believer.(Note the poster said Unbelievers, which the opposite is Believers)
No believer will defend someone else''s riches. Believer's look at the plank in their eyes first,
and are not given the opportunity to remove a speck in another man's life.

penmate101: I do not believe religion condems one to a life of poverty. If it does, how will you follow the Gods commandment to help and provide for the needy. A lazy man is a lazy man, religion or not. There are wealthy atheists who live morally upright lives, far better than most religious icons like pastors priests imams etc.
Religion is no excuse for poverty and laziness. Pastors are not poor. Why should you be?

Christianity does not condemn one to a life of poverty, neither does it teach that being a christian would open doors to material prosperity as it is being taught by modern day pentecostal churches.

TheBigUrban2:




@ bold


In summary, you are saying that

-unbelievers are richer because they are more ready to engage in immoral/corrupt businesses than believers
-unbelievers are richer because they believe in worldly things while believers focus on God and the afterlife





what a joke

If by the term 'unbelievers' you mean many, then you are right it is my point. If you understood the generalization to be sweeping, inclusive of all, then you have misinterpreted my statement.

Know this, many many unbelievers as well as the numerous I know will never dabble into shady or dubious enterprises in order to enrich themselves. They'd rather sweat and toil forever if it is the price of retaining their respect, dignity and probity. These are just like believers who regard honest means of income as the only path to wealth achievement.

I cited the less acceptable and immoral sources of income as the other paths to wealth accumulation which are more traveled by unbelievers since they are not restrained or hindered by any concept of right or wrong. I said 'more traveled by unbelievers' because it is not unusual to find some believers among them.

TheBigUrban2:




There is no God

say's the foolish man.

dorox:
Christianity does not condemn one to a life of poverty, neither does it teach that being a christian would open doors to material prosperity as it is being taught by modern day pentecostal churches.

Your point being.....?

penmate101:

Your point being.....?

The wealth promised to believers in the bible has nothing to do with silver and gold, if it did, Peter would not have told the lame beggar that he did not have silver and gold to give to him. The modern day pentecostal teaching that promise believers devine material wealth is very false, it is unsupported by the bible. Even Jesus said that the poor will always be with us, he never said that the road leading to salvation is paved with gold.

torchwave: Tpia, there are a number of reasons for that.

in the first place, unbelievers and believers have equal opportunities to wealth, fame and status. However, unbelievers seem to have exclusive access to these pleasures of life while believers are denied them.

There is no rocket science explanation to that fact...a mere observation will provide the answers.

You should know that religious beliefs play a fundamental role in determining people's attitude to the things of life such as wealth, career, marriage, association, etc etc...

There are avenues of wealth explored by unbelievers that are considered morally unsuitable by believers. Unbelievers capitalise on these get-rich-quick schemes because they have no moral restraint or values which keep believers from toeing the same path to wealth. A few examples include drug trafficking, local and international advance fee fraud, money laundering, bribery, kidnap and ransom, extortion, embezzlement, prostitution, human trafficking, robbery, contract assassination, romance scam, featuring in pornographic movies or mags, etc. While unbelievers, unrestrained by any notion of morality or dignity, are willing to get their hands soiled to get rich, believers, on the other hand, prefer a different path to wealth, the path that does not conflict with the teachings of Christ and the laws of the state though the price is the length of time it takes in accumulating wealth when compared with unbelievers who seek instant gratification of wealth.

Secondly, the desire to get wealthy is another factor. Believers know their wealth and status on earth will all perish one day...one way or the other. They know it won't last. That is why the desire to be wealthy is not a driving force in their lives. They prefer working towards accumulating spiritual wealth to worldly wealth. That does not mean they don't work towards achieving worldly wealth. They do, but the difference is they are not passionately committed to becoming wealthy as the unbelievers. They'd rather be well-to-do. Besides, many, not all, believers view accumulation of wealth as hindrance to attaining the ultimate goal of their Faith - Heaven.

Moreover, many wealthy unbelievers, when they became Christians, gave up their goods and wealth for the benefit of all. Here you will recall the idiom 'poor as a church rat.' Can't delve into it right now but it is a proof of how many gave up their ostentatious and wealthy lifestyle to serve God after accepting Christ into their lives.

In addition, many unbelievers have the tendency of showing off their wealth to the world through the media or any other means. When they buy a gold rolex watch you will know, when they buy a new house they will announce it to the world, when they purchase a jet it will make the headlines of newspapers. Believers, on the other hand, who are even much wealthier prefer to do the same things without making a sound. The result is that people have the impression that unbelievers are wealthier than believers. That may be true but that is not always the case.

There are many other reasons but these should suffice to provide answers to your question.

you've raised a lot of points here.

so, barring ungodly means of making money which unbelievers (and casual christians) engage in without fear of conscience, lets say on a level playing ground, all things being equal and barring underground ways of making money, why do unbelievers still continue to be richer on average?

Kendzyma: d bolded reminds me of d so calld believers calld pastors.bro nt all unbelievers accumulatd der wealth tru dubious means,and u cnt expect a believer to b rich wen he/she enrichs iz/er pastor's pocket,dats y its only pastors dat flunts der wealth az a believer,followers dnt av anitin to flunt sinc dey ar already milkd dry.and r u saying if 1 isnt a believer,d person's wealth and everytin iz authomatically acquired tru dubious or immoral means?

s/he answered your question- people's wealth is not always acquired through dubious means.

dorox: When the issue of tax payment was brought up to Jesus, he asked them; whose face is on this coin? And their answer was; it is caesar's. Then Jesus told them that they should give to ceasar what belongs to caesar, and to God what belongs to God. The thing you should realise from this answer is that Jesus' kingdom is not of this world, so while he was in the world he was in subjection to the authorities of the world.
Now, as far as I know, God doesn't print money, so being a christian should not count as an advantage in getting money compared to non christians. For example, if you have two farmers with one of them a christian and the other a non christian, if the land they plant upon are of the same size and equally fertile, with the same amount of rainfall, what do you think would determine the size of their harvest?
If the christian farmer spends all his time asking for divine favour to have bountiful harvest and the non christian farmer used his time to learn about irrigation, and how to use fertilizers to boost his crop yield. Who do you think will make it to the market with extra baskets of farm produce of the two farmers?

interesting question.

malvisguy212: there is different between gift and blessing,

true.


God does give gifts to all men, but blessing is something more specific.

eg

proverbs 10

22 The blessing of the Lord, it maketh rich

tpia1:

you've raised a lot of points here.

so, barring ungodly means of making money which unbelievers (and casual christians) engage in without fear of conscience, lets say on a level playing ground, all things being equal and barring underground ways of making money, why do unbelievers still continue to be richer on average?

Like I said earlier, believers and unbelievers have equal opportunities to wealth accumulation. If the unbeliever can have much wealth, the believer can do the same. Therefore, barring ungodly means of making wealth, other points will follow including the fact that many believers have chosen to live their lives free of the AMBITION 'to own the world' - the ambition that drives most unbelievers. It might not be the ambition to own the world but it is always the drive or aspiration to live above their current status of wealth by aiming for more. It is not bad; it is healthy as long as the route taken to wealth is the right one. However, many believers do not have that ambition to strive for more or to attain more wealth, even if they have attained the status of wealth, because wealth is viewed as a clog in the wheel of their spiritual progress.

tpia1:

true.


God does give gifts to all men, but blessing is something more specific.

eg

proverbs 10

rich could mean different thing, if you read the bible, whenever the bible want to address someone that has money, it WEALTH, because richly could mean different tin eg rich in faith and many more.

Matthew 6: Verse

17.And don’t spend all your time trying to accumulate the material things this world has to offer. You may think those things make your life secure, but they don’t. They’re easier to lose than they are to get.

Believers are told to not to spend time accumulating wealth. These are barriers that might not apply to unbelievers.

OP. It would be nice if you could link to where you got your figures from. Also, what do you mean by unbeliever? Non Christian? non Muslim? Atheist/non religious? If you mean atheist/non religious, then given that they are outnumbered by more than 5 to 1 by believers, (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism), it is hardly likely that they form the majority of the wealthiest people.

Maybe you mean "why are unbelievers rich at all?".

[quote author=tpia5]

r
any takers for this one?[/quote.
It depends on what you think an unbeliever is? An unbeliever is one who fails to adhere closely to the teachings of of God's word the Bible and adheres not to Jesus command.
For example Mr. Chris Oyalkilome and others like him is a stack unbelievers, for one he glorifies Christmas nd new year celebrations which is paganistic in their origin. He and others like him hob nob with politicians who happens to be the worst harlots of the earth.

finofaya: OP. It would be nice if you could link to where you got your figures from. Also, what do you mean by unbeliever? Non Christian? non Muslim? Atheist/non religious? If you mean atheist/non religious, then given that they are outnumbered by more than 5 to 1 by believers, (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism), it is hardly likely that they form the majority of the wealthiest people.

Maybe you mean "why are unbelievers rich at all?".

The question was asked by a poster on another thread.


He wondered why unbelievers are more prosperous than believers.

Will search for the link

tpia1:



The question was asked by a poster on another thread.


He wondered why unbelievers are more prosperous than believers.

Will search for the link

What is your opinion the poster's question, do you think that the bible teaches that christians are supposed to be wealthier than non christians?

link to original question:

https://www.nairaland.com/1807901/questions-tithe-tithing#24600562

dorox:

What is your opinion the poster's question,

he asked a valid question, its quite true unbelievers control vast amounts of wealth.

do you think that the bible teaches that christians are supposed to be wealthier than non christians?

the topic is deep, here is a write up where i expressed an opinion on the subject:

The Role of Money in the World


Who owns money, or the concept of money?

Where did money originate from?

Is the world's wealth controlled by God or satan?

Who owns money, or the concept of money?

Matthew 6:

24 Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


here is a "this or that" situation. It implies serving God and mammon are mutually exclusive, meaning you cant do both things together at once, you have to choose one or the other.

Is money a deity to be worshipped? Jesus said money (or serving money) requires a type of commitment or dedication which undercuts a believer's service to God. It does not mean money is bad in itself, however, serving money is a choice, just like serving God is also a choice which a believer decides whether or not to make.

So, who actually owns money? If God created all things (including money), then He should be the owner of all money. However, to cut a long story short, there is a phenomenon known as "the Prince of this world", who is firmly in charge of everything pertaining to it, including commerce and the cash flow. Serving mammon (the created), means you are serving this prince who usurped authority and diverted it to himself.



The modern concept of money, originated in the garden when adam and eve took something for nothing, eating the fruit for benefits which were not tangibly defined.

Probably there is no God. That's a possibility Christians do not consider at all.

Thanks for your input, but contrary to you think a lot of us have have carefully considered that possibility and rejected it.

Now let's face d truth. I'm a christian, so don't say "he's one of the atheists". D major reason for the non-believers being wealthier is that christians are generally lazy, always lookin up to God to help dem wit every little problem. They hardly think with their brains for solutions, all they do is pray and blame unexisting forces for their failures. A man of God once said : God gave us brains so we won't disturb him with every of our little problems ( we should also think out solutions). When I was a student my dad always told me" pray like it depends only on God, but work like it depends only on you". Even though my prayer life was very active, I was always working so hard to achieve success (which I did achieve).

My point is this: we christians need to use more of our brains to think out solutions even while we pray for divine grace.

NDprudent: Now let's face d truth. I'm a christian, so don't say "he's one of the atheists". D major reason for the non-believers being wealthier is that christians are generally lazy, always lookin up to God to help dem wit every little problem. They hardly think with their brains for solutions, all they do is pray and blame unexisting forces for their failures. A man of God once said : God gave us brains so we won't disturb him with every of our little problems ( we should also think out solutions). When I was a student my dad always told me" pray like it depends only on God, but work like it depends only on you". Even though my prayer life was very active, I was always working so hard to achieve success (which I did achieve).

My point is this: we christians need to use more of our brains to think out solutions even while we pray for divine grace.

#


come out of the closet....you're either an atheist or a secular christian

NDprudent: Now let's face d truth. I'm a christian, so don't say "he's one of the atheists". D major reason for the non-believers being wealthier is that christians are generally lazy, always lookin up to God to help dem wit every little problem. They hardly think with their brains for solutions, all they do is pray and blame unexisting forces for their failures. A man of God once said : God gave us brains so we won't disturb him with every of our little problems ( we should also think out solutions). When I was a student my dad always told me" pray like it depends only on God, but work like it depends only on you". Even though my prayer life was very active, I was always working so hard to achieve success (which I did achieve).

My point is this: we christians need to use more of our brains to think out solutions even while we pray for divine grace.

This should be another question on its own.

Does being logical contradict having faith?

Why do christians fear logic so much? Thereby elevating logical reasoning to a status comparable to God.

is logic supposed to be practiced only by non christians and lapsed christians?

why exactly do christians assume once you are logical, you will automatically lose your faith? What the bible says is let God be true, but every man a liar. Romans 3:4.

Kay17: Probably there is no God. That's a possibility Christians do not consider at all.

what if there is?what if you are wrong? Between a believer and an atheist, who has the advantage?

Honestly, I will not take the risk you are taking.

NDprudent: Now let's face d truth. I'm a christian, so don't say "he's one of the atheists". D major reason for the non-believers being wealthier is that christians are generally lazy, always lookin up to God to help dem wit every little problem. They hardly think with their brains for solutions, all they do is pray and blame unexisting forces for their failures. A man of God once said : God gave us brains so we won't disturb him with every of our little problems ( we should also think out solutions). When I was a student my dad always told me" pray like it depends only on God, but work like it depends only on you". Even though my prayer life was very active, I was always working so hard to achieve success (which I did achieve).

My point is this: we christians need to use more of our brains to think out solutions even while we pray for divine grace.

you just describe your self, WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT THERE IS NO CHRISTIAN THAT IS RICH?

God say I will bless you with riches, this dos not mean money, wealth is for mankind, it a gift and sin cannot take your gift, is like a footballer who has the gift of play, even when he sin,the gift will still be there, IT IS THE SAME GIFT HE USE IT TO BE RICH.

The op ask a very, very silly question, a true christian do not keep trassure were thives can broke in, bt in heaven.

malvisguy212: what if there is?what if you are wrong? Between a believer and an atheist, who has the advantage?

Honestly, I will not take the risk you are taking.

Which is it? Are you certain God exists or not?! A Pascal wager is always going to be irrelevant.

Kay17:

Which is it? Are you certain God exists or not?! A Pascal wager is always going to be irrelevant.

am not 100% sure there is God, but AM 110% SURE THERE IS GOD.

JUST ANSWER MY QUESTION, BETWEEN ATHEIST AND BELIEVER, WHO HAS THE ADVANTAGE?

malvisguy212: am not 100% sure there is God, but AM 110% SURE THERE IS GOD.

JUST ANSWER MY QUESTION, BETWEEN ATHEIST AND BELIEVER, WHO HAS THE ADVANTAGE?

Rather ask yourself whether the question is relevant since you are absolutely sure there is a God.

Kay17:

Rather ask yourself whether the question is relevant since you are absolutely sure there is a God.

the question is so important to you , the atheist, I got noting to loose, if there is GOD, I will praise they Lord, if there IS no God, I got noting to lose. You on the other hand, if there IS God, MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOU.

SO MY FRIEND, THE QUESTION IS RELEVANT. Thank you