Hmmm, I got confused with my bible after a lots of personal argument & reason since few weeks ago, I have been trying to resolve this feelings but couldn't, that God accepts human sacrifice to relinguish his support or favour. Iam not a freethinker nor I wish to promote it as some may think. Iam only seeking for expert opinion or better interpretation in the following Christian bible chapters and verses. 2king 3 v 27, Judges 11 v31-39. Iam hereby calling on all the nairaland theologian scholars,individuals and groups to Share your views and remain blessed in your polite contribution.

Lol..seats quietly


My humble submission:
For 2kings 3:27. It is just 3 possibilities;
1. The moabites attacked with great zeal, turning their anger at isreal as a result of the death of the crown prince.
2. The lord turned his wrath on isreal maybe because they continued attacking and didn't stop even at the sight of human sacrifice.(since the moabites didn't serve isreal's god and are not gods people, the sacrifice shouldn't count.{Lev 20:1-5 is thereby annuled})
3. The sacrifice was used to change "god loyalty". ( sacrifice=bribe).

But the fact is he did kill his son.


Then judges 11:31-39. (Aleyi gidigan)

He didn't offer her up. But took her to shiloh where she spent the rest of her life and died as a virgin. The hebrew word translated "offer up/sacrifice" could also mean dedicate or consecrate.

Though the best reply from christains here would be that "we are in the era of grace, not under the law no more".

@op check:
1. Deuteronomy 32:39-42
2. 1sam 15:3
3. Numbers 25:3-5
4. Numbers 16:32-35
..there are more but these ones don do

Somebody say alleluia; god is ...

Another question: is god bloodthirsty?
SMH

I have ask myself such kwestions b4. Let us face reality, there are so many kwestion like urs in the bible without logical answer e.g abraham paid tithe from looties and booties of war. As for me and my houshold we will continue to believe in God.

This Christian God sha... the exact opposite of what we call him...

There must be a real God outta there sha...

Judges 11:30–31
30 And Jephthah madea vow to the LORD and said, “If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, 31 then whatever comes out from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites shall be the LORD’s, and i I will offer it up for a burnt offering.”

Apatheist: Judges 11:30–31
30 And Jephthah madea vow to the LORD and said, “If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, 31 then whatever comes out from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites shall be the LORD’s, and i I will offer it up for a burnt offering.”

Spot on! I was going to point this out. Some christians like to defend blindly anything they see as disturbing.
It is CLEARLY stated that he said "...offer as burnt offering".
Jephthah clearly didn't expect his only child to be the FIRST THING that he sees come out of his house, maybe he expected one of his sheep, ram or goat.
It is also stated that it became a practice in her memory for daughters of Israel to mourn her.
If she was just dedicated to God's service like Samuel was, why did they hold memorials for her?

This is serious issue.

Eyes and ears widely open.

Apatheist: Judges 11:30–31
30 And Jephthah madea vow to the LORD and said, “If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, 31 then whatever comes out from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites shall be the LORD’s, and i I will offer it up for a burnt offering.”

Thank you.

Apatheist n co, there are many bible translations. You should check for the hebrew original manuscripts and bla bla..

All na speculations though

But, daddy g truly like blood

Liveair:
Spot on! I was going to point this out. Some christians like to defend blindly anything they see as disturbing.
It is CLEARLY stated that he said "...offer as burnt offering".
Jephthah clearly didn't expect his only child to be the FIRST THING that he sees come out of his house, maybe he expected one of his sheep, ram or goat.
It is also stated that it became a practice in her memory for daughters of Israel to mourn her.
If she was just dedicated to God's service like Samuel was, why did they hold memorials for her?

They held memorials for her because they likened her case to that of isaac. See the daughter's statement in vs 36. Jephthah was also a national hero.

Not that am supporting the bible, it is filled with errors. But there are some correct stories there.

(Genesis 22:1-18)
"Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you."

(Exodus 13:2)
"Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me."

(1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)
"On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you."

(Wisdom 3:5-7)
Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself.

(Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)
I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken.

(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.

the jewish yahweh is the most blood-sucking monster in the history of deities. ... .

submit:

They held memorials for her because they likened her case to that of isaac. See the daughter's statement in vs 36. Jephthah was also a national hero.

Not that am supporting the bible, it is filled with errors. But there are some correct stories there.

You don't seem to get it.
What case about Isaac?
You see, Jephthah's promise says "...offer as BURNT SACRIFICE ANYTHING that first comes out of my house"
In the bible, other people have been GIVEN to God so why was her own different? A memorial was even set up yearly for her (v40).
It records that Jephthah "rent" his clothes in anguish, knowing he was bound to keep his promise to sacrifice her. Why would he do so if its any less?
Was she the only lady who was dying a virgin? Of course not!

She was sacrificed; BURNT!

Lol

Okay.

submit: Apatheist n co, there are many bible translations. You should check for the hebrew original manuscripts and bla bla..

All na speculations though

But, daddy g truly like blood

He will need more.
E be like say Jesus own don finish.

Liveair:
Spot on! I was going to point this out. Some christians like to defend blindly anything they see as disturbing.
It is CLEARLY stated that he said "...offer as burnt offering".
Jephthah clearly didn't expect his only child to be the FIRST THING that he sees come out of his house, maybe he expected one of his sheep, ram or goat.
It is also stated that it became a practice in her memory for daughters of Israel to mourn her.
If she was just dedicated to God's service like Samuel was, why did they hold memorials for her?

The buy-bull said he "did as he vowed" ie he sacrificed her-- as he promised.

Scyllapatron:

the jewish yahweh is the most blood-sucking monster in the history of deities. ... .

I disagree.
Wahalla Allah is worse.

smartn09: Hmmm, I got confused with my bible after a lots of personal argument & reason since few weeks ago, I have been trying to resolve this feelings but couldn't, that God accepts human sacrifice to relinguish his support or favour. Iam not a freethinker nor I wish to promote it as some may think. Iam only seeking for expert opinion or better interpretation in the following Christian bible chapters and verses. 2king 3 v 27, Judges 11 v31-39. Iam hereby calling on all the nairaland theologian scholars,individuals and groups to Share your views and remain blessed in your polite contribution.

With re: to 2 Kings 3:27 - God did not command/require this sacrifice. Futhermore, it was offered by the "enemy".

With re: Judges 11:31-39... God didnt command or require this sacrifice either...however, when one makes a vow or promise to The LORD, one must keep it. God honorably takes His promises seriously and always keeps them, as should we all, by His strength. Consider that God gave Israel many, many victories over their enemies without requiring anything... it was through His Divine favor.

God does not need any human or animal sacrifice as those things were only illustrations... The LORD in the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ, the great High Priest, sacrificed Himself for many for reconciliation with God. HE is the only true sacrifice that we need or have - John 3:16, Acts 4:12, etc.

Lex11:

With re: to 2 Kings 3:27 - God did not command/require this sacrifice. Futhermore, it was offered by the "enemy".

With re: Judges 11:31-39... God didnt command or require this sacrifice either...however, when one makes a vow or promise to The LORD, one must keep it. God honorably takes His promises seriously and always keeps them, as should we all, by His strength. Consider that God gave Israel many, many victories over their enemies without requiring anything... it was through His Divine favor.

God does not need any human or animal sacrifice as those things were only illustrations... The LORD in the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ, the great High Priest, sacrificed Himself for many for reconciliation with God. HE is the only true sacrifice that we need or have - John 3:16, Acts 4:12, etc.

Please Read the Bible very well.
The Israelites were required to spare part of the loot of war regularly for their God.
The most precious ornaments and items were set aside as holy, for temple use. Read Num 31:25-54

As for Jephthah's sacrifice, there was no mention of God preventing him or even reprimanding him. However, if that sacrifice was unacceptable, why didn't God prevent his daughter from coming out by sending a goat instead?

Liveair:
Please Read the Bible very well.
The Israelites were required to spare part of the loot of war regularly for their God.
The most precious ornaments and items were set aside as holy, for temple use. Read Num 31:25-54

As for Jephthah's sacrifice, there was no mention of God preventing him or even reprimanding him. However, if that sacrifice was unacceptable, why didn't God prevent his daughter from coming out by sending a goat instead?

---
Read my response "very well" because You miss my point(s) entirely!

With re: to the "loot", everything you see and don't see belongs to GOD! - "The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods." - Psalm 24:1-2

"I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds. For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine." - Psalm 50:9-11.. etc.

With re: to Jephthah's sacrifice - Is The Lord GOD Almighty somehow required/compelled to send "a goat instead?" By who... you?

**********

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." - Psalm 51:15-17

Lex11:
---
Read my response "very well" because You miss my point(s) entirely!

With re: to the "loot", everything you see and don't see belongs to GOD! - "The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods." - Psalm 24:1-2

"I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds. For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine." - Psalm 50:9-11.. etc.

With re: to Jephthah's sacrifice - Is The Lord GOD Almighty somehow required/compelled to send "a goat instead?" By who... you?

**********

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." - Psalm 51:15-17

Your attempt at defending your God is at best weak.
He owns everything yet he requires sacrefices.
He doesn't require sacrifices; they are just illustrations, yet you also said that Jesus was sacrificed!
Now, If i vow to your God to do evil and he makes the conditions fit, am i bound to do that evil just to satisfy your God?
You see why an Atheist shreds you guys to pieces.

Liveair:
Your attempt at defending your God is at best weak.
He owns everything yet he requires sacrefices.
He doesn't require sacrifices; they are just illustrations, yet you also said that Jesus was sacrificed!
Now, If i vow to your God to do evil and he makes the conditions fit, am i bound to do that evil just to satisfy your God?
You see why an Atheist shreds you guys to pieces.

---
1. The Almighty needs no "defending."

2. Human beings are finite creatures with finite reasoning and abilities... yet, you purport to have it all figured out. To each his/her own, at the end of our physical lives on this rock, each one will realize that there is only one truth - Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God The Father.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -
Acts 4:12
**********************

"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." - Titus 3:9-11

Jesus Can Never Be A Sacrifice For Sins (1)

on June 22, 2014 / in Article of Faith 1:40 am / Comments


By Femi Aribisala

If Jesus’ death was a sacrifice, it can only atone for sins committed before his death. High priests don’t atone for future sins.

I often ask fellow Christians if our sins are forgiven or if they are paid for. Did Jesus die for our sins or do we need to repent? Most say it is both, but it cannot be. If our sins are forgiven, nobody needs to pay for them. But if our sins are paid for, then we don’t need to be forgiven. If I owe a man one thousand naira and Jesus pays my debt, then I was not forgiven the debt. Indeed, if Jesus died for our sins then God never forgave anyone.

Jesus teaches about repentance and the forgiveness of sins. But Paul talks about blood payment for sins. Whose report should we believe? Most Christians disagree with Jesus. Jesus says God does not desire sacrifices. (Matthew 9:13). But Paul says Jesus sacrificed himself to God for us. (Ephesians 5:2). Whose report should we believe? Most Christians disagree with Jesus. Nevertheless, we say Jesus is “the author and finisher of our faith.” (Hebrews 12:2).

Good Shepherd

Jesus says: “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” (John 10:11). This statement is often mistaken as indicating that Jesus will die as a sacrifice for sins. However, since the ways of God are not our ways (Isaiah 55:; the good shepherd must not be confused with the typical shepherd. Indeed, the life of the good shepherd is a deliberate anti-type of the Mosaic sin-sacrifice.

In the typical sacrifice, the life of the sheep is sacrificed for the shepherd. But Jesus contradicts this by saying he is the shepherd who gives his life for the sheep. Obviously, this cannot be about dying for the sheep for the simple reason that a dead shepherd is of no use to his sheep. On the contrary, Jesus is talking about living for the sheep. The good shepherd gives his life for the sheep by devoting his eternal life to taking care of them. Without a doubt, it is far more difficult to live for the sheep than to die for them. Indeed, when you give your life for someone, you don’t have to die.

Jesus’ crucifixion was a one-time event, but his priesthood as our shepherd is everlasting. Jesus did not say “the good shepherd will give his life for the sheep.” Instead, he talks in the present continuous because he is “the same yesterday and today and forever.” (Hebrews 13:. “The good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” This shows Jesus is not talking about Calvary. Jesus remains our shepherd today and he is still giving his life for us. The enemy decided to kill the shepherd so that the sheep would scatter. (Zechariah 13:7). However, God countered this by raising him from the dead, showing that this shepherd cannot be sacrificed or killed.

Surrendered life

Jesus teaches that physical life is inconsequential. He says: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.” (Matthew10:28). Therefore, the life he lays down cannot be the inconsequential life. It must surely be the spiritual life. Hear him: “My Father loves me because I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.” (John 10:17-18).

This shows the life Jesus laid down is not his physical life, as many Christians presume in the sacrificial atonement fallacy. The physical life was taken from Jesus against his will. When he was to be crucified by men, he said to God: “Not my will, but yours be done.”(Luke 22:42). However, no one took his divine (eternal) life from him. He voluntarily relinquished this in order to take up a mortal life on earth.

This shows the cross of Jesus was fundamentally his incarnation. His cross was in laying down his life in heaven in order to come to earth as a man to show us the way of salvation. After his earthly death and resurrection, he took up again his heavenly life.

Ransom not sacrifice

Before Jesus went to the cross, he says to his disciples: “Love each other as I have loved you.” He then describes his love for them as laying down his life: “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:12-13). This love was expressed in the past; before his crucifixion. Therefore, Jesus’ definition of laying down his life has nothing to do with dying on the cross. It is about loving others and living a life of service for them.

The laying down of life that Jesus talks about cannot be about Calvary because he asks his disciples to lay down their lives also. Surely, it cannot be said that he was requiring them to die also as sacrifices for sins, especially since misguided Christian doctrine says Jesus laid down his life once for all. (Hebrews 10:10).

Furthermore, Jesus says to his disciples: “Whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave- just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28).

This injunction is further proof that the doctrine of Jesus has nothing to do with sacrifices for sins. Jesus says he gives his life as a ransom. However, a ransom is fundamentally different from a sacrifice. A ransom is not paid as atonement for sins but for the release of captives. It is not given to God but to kidnappers. Kidnappers are evil, but God is righteous. Ransoms are paid by the innocent, but sacrifices are given by the guilty.

If Jesus’ death was a sacrifice, it can only atone for sins committed before his death. High priests don’t atone for future sins. However, if Jesus’ life is seen correctly as a ransom, its lessons remain relevant even to those of us born after his death.

Fear of death

Satan holds men captive through our love of life. We sin as we try to save our lives. Therefore, Jesus warns: “Whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.” (Matthew16:25). Jesus ransomed captives with his life by allowing himself to be killed; only to rise from the dead. Thereby, he exposed the counterfeit of death by demonstrating that our fear of death is baseless.

Hebrews says: “Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death- that is, the devil- and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.” (Hebrews 2:14-15).

The Good Shepherd lays down his life and takes it up again. Therefore, we can now confidently lay down our lives, without fear of losing our lives. Thanks to Jesus: “Our soul has escaped as a bird from the snare of the fowlers; the snare is broken, and we have escaped.” (Psalms 124:7).

- See more at: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2014/06/jesus-can-never-sacrifice-sins-1/#sthash.R1X9OJaZ.dpuf