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Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 8:32pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
The Bible functions as key resource for helping me understand something about God and about life in general. But the errors I have discovered in the Bible prompt me to take care in how I think and talk about Scripture. 24 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 8:33pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Missing Autographs and Divergent Manuscripts 17 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Kay17: 9:15pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
The divine inspiration of the bible is very difficult to pinpoint especially when there is no criteria dictated by an external source other than the bible. 7 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Joshthefirst(m): 10:58pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Kay17: The divine inspiration of the bible is very difficult to pinpoint especially when there is no criteria dictated by an external source other than the bible.an external source would have to be confirmed by another and another. An endless and foolish cycle. The bible is a spiritual book written to a specific people of which you are not a part. Only when you respond to the message will you be able to appreciate and realize the truth the written word provides. 30 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Kay17: 11:29pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Joshthefirst: an external source would have to be confirmed by another and another. An endless and foolish cycle. True. However God is the sole validator. His validation would be direct. Because the trust you place on the Bible, can be placed on any other holy book. 7 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Joshthefirst(m): 11:34pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Kay17:of course the bible is validated supernaturally. But you dismiss its validation every time. Whichever way it is, you'd still doubt. No one can force a man to acknowledge the truth before him. He must do that himself. 8 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by PastorAIO: 11:49pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Kay17: The divine inspiration of the bible is very difficult to pinpoint especially when there is no criteria dictated by an external source other than the bible. Well, the church would be such an external source. 4 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Kay17: 11:53pm On Aug 01, 2014 |
Joshthefirst: of course the bible is validated supernaturally. But you dismiss its validation every time. Whichever way it is, you'd still doubt. No one can force a man to acknowledge the truth before him. He must do that himself. But it is not directly from God. 3 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Joshthefirst(m): 12:06am On Aug 02, 2014 |
Kay17:nonsense. What do you want? What is available is more than enough confirmation and evidence. When next God personally enters our realm. It will be to end it in judgement. 6 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Kay17: 12:15am On Aug 02, 2014 |
There is nothing more I can say. 3 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by finofaya: 12:40am On Aug 02, 2014 |
OP. All this inerrancy talk, I tot you were going to tell us that the bible is unreliable. Instead you say God wanted it that way. But don't you think that if God was keen on getting us into heaven, he would have made more effort to ensure the inerrancy of the bible? Cos as it is now, christians are turning away from christianity cos of that book and its errors, and the same book is supposed to win over the whole world. It is supposed to win over non religious people and people who already show a preference for other religions. Well, somebody is a prankster, otherwise, shoddy job . 25 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by mazaje(m): 12:56am On Aug 02, 2014 |
Joshthefirst: an external source would have to be confirmed by another and another. An endless and foolish cycle. which specific people and how is he not part?. . . 7 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by mazaje(m): 12:59am On Aug 02, 2014 |
finofaya: OP. All this inerrancy talk, I tot you were going to tell us that the bible is unreliable. Instead you say God wanted it that way. But don't you think that if God was keen on getting us into heaven, he would have made more effort to ensure the inerrancy of the bible? Cos as it is now, christians are turning away from christianity cos of that book and its errors, and the same book is supposed to win over the whole world. It is supposed to win over non religious people and people who already show a preference for other religions. Well, somebody is a prankster, otherwise, shoddy job . They should just accept that the bible like any other book is a book written by humans , it has no divine origin, there is nothing that is written inside the bible that could not be written by other people that lived at that time. . . . 24 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by texanomaly(f): 1:47am On Aug 02, 2014 |
Kay17: The prophet Muhammad says the Quran is from God. Do you believe in its validity? 2 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by mazaje(m): 9:27am On Aug 02, 2014 |
texanomaly: Nope. . 12 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 11:12am On Aug 02, 2014 |
finofaya: OP. All this inerrancy talk, I tot you were going to tell us that the bible is unreliable. Instead you say God wanted it that way. But don't you think that if God was keen on getting us into heaven, he would have made more effort to ensure the inerrancy of the bible? Cos as it is now, christians are turning away from christianity cos of that book and its errors, and the same book is supposed to win over the whole world. It is supposed to win over non religious people and people who already show a preference for other religions. Well, somebody is a prankster, otherwise, shoddy job . The Bible is not unreliable when you read it from the context of the overall message of God's love and salvation for MANKIND. Note a few things : 1. God used imperfect human beings 2. He did not override their will, emotion or intellect 3. He inspired them and they put pen to paper as best as they could narrate the words of God. 4. There were obviously errors and misrepresentations in some cases but these are few and far between. 5. The original manuscripts are not available, what we do have now are copies from other copies. 6. If you think about it, in those days there was no press, so scribes at different locations and times had to painstakingly copy these manuscripts. 7. During the translation to Latin , the Catholic church deliberately inserted some outright errors to support their myths such as the Trinity , Hell etc 8. These errors were carried into the English versions. 9. Nevertheless we are able to understand the specific truths of God through his Spirit and this requires humility 10. The message of Salvation is still not lost and consistent as ever. Don't use this opportubtiy to make rash statements on what you know not. 45 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by mazaje(m): 11:14am On Aug 02, 2014 |
^^ You want to eat your cake and have it, eh? 8 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 11:14am On Aug 02, 2014 |
mazaje: It does have divine origin, albeit communicated through imperfect vessels. 3 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 11:15am On Aug 02, 2014 |
mazaje: ^^ What exactly do you mean ? |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by mazaje(m): 11:34am On Aug 02, 2014 |
frosbel: You don't wanna accept that thw bible is just another book humans wrote. . .you wanna claim divine origin but human fallibility at the same time. . . .how do you square that? 16 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by finofaya: 1:37pm On Aug 02, 2014 |
frosbel: I get what you mean. Anybody that reads the bible understands at once that he is being presented with a choice between heaven and hell. That much is clear. That's the salvific message right? We all get that. Salvation is the theme of the bible, and I haven't seen a book that was unreliable as to its theme. Books tend to get their themes spot on. What I asked you is why the bible is not adept at converting everybody to christianity, considering that it was commissioned by the almighty. Why is the message of salvation unpersuasive? I think the message falls flat because it is contained in a book that is full of errors. I guess you have chosen to explain away all the errors in the bible through the 10 reasons you listed. Not all of us can be that lenient. For example, how can you say God did not influence the will, emotion or intellect of a person you do not know? Was he just walking around willing write the word of God? Did he discover God before the word of God? If so, is the bible mecessary? Me, I must ask such questions. As far as I know, the bible is full of such errors because it is not the word of any almighty God. Anyway, tell me why such an ineffective means of persuasion like the bible was chosen for the salvation of the whole world. 14 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 2:39pm On Aug 02, 2014 |
frosbel: Nicely put! 2 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Kay17: 5:09pm On Aug 02, 2014 |
@frosbel We have to take the writers by their word, so also the Quran and other only books. 2 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Weah96: 5:51pm On Aug 02, 2014 |
frosbel: Of course he didn't override their emotions and intellect. He knew every event in their lives BEFORE he created them, which means that they were designed to write those stories. There's no point interfering once you've programmed the person. 3 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Emusan(m): 9:30pm On Aug 02, 2014 |
frosbel: You want to eat your cake and have it. How do you know these men weren't mistaken in their message about SALVATION so far they could contradict themselves? Very soon your thread will read "the God of Bible is a liar" then "There's no God" If you agree that God inspired all the writer's of the books found in the Bible and in otherwise believe that God can't inspire error, your problem with those things you called biblical inerrancy should be 'how what seems to be Biblical inerrancy cleared away'. Truly majority of Christians scholar have noticed these things BUT also they have come with possibility of what might actually result to these differences BY STRONGLY FIRST BELIEVE THAT it's impossible for God to inspire error AND EVERY SINGLE WORD in the BIBLE was inspired by God . So these seem so called inerrancy were categorized into many headings. 1) Copyist's error WHICH means the original manuscripts weren't contained those discrepancies i.e where different in numerical figure can be found either in age or numbering. 2) Failure to know how God works! This should remind you that people who normally attack Bible are those who are not ready to acknowledge anything about God of the Bible or believe anything in the Bible. This can be found in the story of who inspired David to number Is real Satan or God? 3) Failure to read the whole content/taking time to understand what the texts are saying. And many more. NOTE:- The second point you raised "where you said Mark supposedly to quote Malachi 3:1 but eventually quoted from Isaiah" shows that you don't read your Bible at all rather surfing internet up and down to talk about God. How long will this help you to know God personally? Show me where the word "WILDERNESS" appeared throughout Mal 3 not even verse1 but the whole chapter? Then check whether you won't find this same word in Isaiah 40:3. In another word compare Isaiah 40:3 and Mark 1:2-3 then Malachi 3:1 and Mark 1:2-3 to see which one match each other. 6 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 9:58pm On Aug 02, 2014 |
^^^ I am on the move now and will respond fully on my return in the spirit of brotherly love. But remember point 2 is not about Mark 1:2-3 , it clearly states Mark 1:2. Please can you explain how Mark could start a verse thus ; "The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah,[a] the Son of God, 2 as it is written in Isaiah the prophet:" - [b]Mark 1:1 and then followed by ; “I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way”[c ] - Mark 1:2 Mark quotes Isaiah from Mark 1:1, but we know that Mark 1:2 is not derived from Isaiah but Malachi. We can however agree that Mark 1:2-3 is a concatenation of Isaiah 40:3 and Malachi 3:1 , hence the question, why no reference to Malachi in Mark 1:1 ?. Dont add Mark 1:3 to the equation because it was never mentioned. Thanks. 1 Like |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by Nobody: 12:21am On Aug 03, 2014 |
Emusan: The message of salvation is loud and clear within scripture as a whole. Very soon your thread will read "the God of Bible is a liar" then "There's no God" Really !! So we should ignore obvious errors and contradictions even though most scholars agree that these matters do pose certain problems ? Also , since you like to criticise the Quran, why can't the bible be open to the same methods of analysis ? If you agree that God inspired all the writer's of the books found in the Bible and in otherwise believe that God can't inspire error, your problem with those things you called biblical inerrancy should be 'how what seems to be Biblical inerrancy cleared away'. 1. Inspiration is one thing, communicating the message through imperfect beings is another. 2. We do not have the original autographs today, what we have are copies of copies and hence unwitting but passable errors have been made. 3. It is the overall message that we get from the bible that matters and God's spirit knows how to communicate this to the true seekers. 4. There are some other errors in the bible which are either blatant falsifications or attempts to make certain doctrines fit into scripture. Examples : In Matthew 1:23 an attempt was made to support the myth of the virgin birth by quoting Isaiah 7:14 when most scholars agree that this prophecy was fulfilled in the same period. Read Isaiah 8:3-4. Jude v14 to v15 quotes from the book of Enoch which still exists, why was this left out of the bible ? John 7:38, where Jesus quotes “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” , this scripture is not found anywhere in the bible ( could this have perhaps referred to another lost book ) ? 5. There is almost no complete manuscript of the bible, what we have are bits and pieces which were used to recontruct the bible. 6. There are books referred to by certain people of antiquity that no longer exist. Why were they lost I ask you ? Examples : Book of Jashar quoted in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18 Book of Nathan the prophet in 2 Chronicles 9:29 Book of Shemaiah the prophet in 2 Chronicles 12:15 Book of the wars of the LORD in Numbers 21:14 For a full list go to ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_books_of_the_Old_Testament Truly majority of Christians scholar have noticed these things BUT also they have come with possibility of what might actually result to these differences BY STRONGLY FIRST BELIEVE THAT it's impossible for God to inspire error AND EVERY SINGLE WORD in the BIBLE was inspired by God . Wrong. Not EVERY WORD in the bible in inspired by GOD , otherwise we have to believe that God inspires error. Rather God inspired imperfect men which is why we have errors.
You are the one that jumped to conclusions without carefully reading point number 2 which was actually referring to Mark 1:2 and not Mark 1:3 How long will this help you to know God personally? Very much so, my deep research into the bible has made me throw away most of the myths, fables and concocted doctrines that have prevented billions of people from knowing or following the true and ONE God. Of course God is still saving millions out of his mercy but the churches take them captive and destroy them with false doctrine , turning many back to into atheists or other religions and leaving many hurt , abused, disillusioned and rudderless. Jude asked me to contend for the original faith and I will continue to do so. Paul told me not to give heed to myths and fables , and I will continue not to pay heed. Some biblical myths and impact to the world : Hell Fire for eternity - this has put off over 3 billion from the faith Trinity - over a billion Muslims rightly reject this pagan myth but are left out of the plan of salvation. Virgin Birth - Millions of intelligent people who have studied the bible in original languages reject this myth. Bible Inerrancy - Makes God's people out to be Liars in the face of glaring evidence and smacks off as pride instead of humility. Quran comparison - makes us no different to the Muslims who claim that the Quran is 100% perfect despite it's obvious contradictions and inconsistencies. This is what Jesus had to say to those who are preventing others from salvation : "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to." - Matthew 23:13 5 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by ByfireByfire: 5:35am On Aug 03, 2014 |
frosbel:LIES!! FALLACY!! ERROR!! This is nothing but your personal emotional perception with no evidence whatsoever & of course being presented as though you were there when it happened all because it doesn't suit your logic. Gods ways and existence are never necessarily compatible with logic. Take it or leave it. 12 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by ByfireByfire: 6:22am On Aug 03, 2014 |
frosbel:Ridiculous nonsense arising from personal perception & emotion being imposed as fact. Where did you get this figure from.Lies again. I've been a believer for nearly 2 decades and whenever my love for God & Christianity had grown cold due to ferocious tribulations , the fear of eternal hell alone has consistently kept me from sin & kept me following till the love for God was fully kindled again by His interventions, visitations & tender mercies.I have been to numerous churches with counless millions of membership and can say the same experience stands true for the majority of Christians worldwide. Just like in a marriage relationship where the oil of love has dried up, the marriage bond keeps the couples yet living together till the love is revived again. This trend often repeats all through the marriage lifespan. I don't expect you to agree with me as you never agree with anybody but with your self generated errors... but stop presenting your brazen flawed opinions as facts. 6 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by jayseehe(m): 7:11am On Aug 03, 2014 |
my science textbook has less errors than the Bible the Bible has far more errors than the ones mentioned here 15 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by gbaskiboy: 7:12am On Aug 03, 2014 |
Read Psalm 19 vs 7-11, no inconsistencies in d Bible it's a word inspired by God though written down by ordinary men like u, but these ones were guided by holy spirit. In the Gospel account i.e matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The writers of these account were followers of Jesus and they accompany him whenever he goes. But when incidence occurred that needed to be penned down they cover stories differently. Just like journalists covering stories u don't expect all of them to write same story their will be variation, they give an account of what happened based on informations they have. Take for example the night Jesus was betrayed and arrested by Judas iscariot, the gospel writers matthew, mark, luke and john all covers the story, one of Jesus' disciples drew his sword to defend Jesus and he chopped off ear of one the men that came to arrest Jesus. Of these Gospel writers, it was only John who Gave the name the Jesus disciple who chop off the ear and the person whose ear was chopped was given as MALCHUS. Read matt 26:51&52, luke 22:50&51, mark 14:47&48 and John 18:10. Most of then penned the story depending on the information they have on ground. Using nigerian Journalists as a case study. The Bible is an inspired word from God no contradiction in it all u need to do is to compare scripture with scripture.. 6 Likes |
Re: Problems With Biblical Inerrancy by onome710(m): 7:17am On Aug 03, 2014 |
*Walks into Thread* *Takes a seat* *Says a silent prayer* *Reading comments* I no dey put mouth for matter like this. God uses the foolish things to confound the wise. The foolishness of God is wiser than men! #ThatsAll 16 Likes |
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