All of you ranting and making bigots comments.Fashola has made it clear that the loan was approved by the federal govt. And I believe before such approval GEJs team would av criticaly looked in2 d proposed use of the loan. Why not name ur state n govenor,let us inquire if its debt free..Moreover its better to have a corrupt leader who is working 4 d masses dan a corrupt leader who isn't working coz dat 1 is 2-0.

bushdoc9919:

Hey stop pretending!

But in the event you are not pretending.

1.LASU has a budget less than N15 million (hey since this is a Lag thread....we might as well use the home uni).

2.Serious universities have budgets in excess of $200MILLION (in the American currencies).

3.Norway's second largest university.....has a budget of $800million....(Norway is the second largest producer of oil....and has a population of 11 million people....so of course they can afford that....plus Norway has industries).

My point is....if you want free education it is either you have the cash and the low population to sustain it,or Lagos starts producing oil at the amount Saudi and Norway do at current prices....or you raise fees.

Because pretty soon, our uni grads will lose out to better trained foreign graduates....all because the kudi isn't enough.

Unless you have N10 trillion to donate to Nigeria's universities.

Dude

BlackTechnology: [/color]


Point of correction

Some of the most reputable research institutions started small. As they succeeded, they expanded and advanced further using investors money.

Real and computer simulated videos are cheaper that is why Advance Nations use them to train their citizens

Do you know that a heat seeking missile cost $80 000 that is why only US soldiers that have high scores using simulated videos are allowed to train with the real missile

I don't know what you studied in the University but am sure you never studied any course related to engineering-technology

I agree with you that they need to start small before the get big. But you did not know that starting a research institute as lots of things that you need to put into consideration in terms materials and equipment's along side with funds that sometimes might come up with uncompleted research or failed projects.
You talked about heat seeking missile, it might cost $80000 but how much do the facility that produce that missile cost. Do you have the technological know how. Do you have the necessary materials to put things in place. If you are an Engineer then that is part of what we are talking about, half baked graduates. These facilities require lots of research and fund, with commitment. For now Nigeria is not close and i dont think we can be close.
To mass produce, is what am talking about, you don't have a steel company, your power supply is terrible, what infrastructure do you have that is working. Now to create that yourself as a state, can you understand the cost involved, planning etc.

DVanguard:

Mr Intelligent help me. I can't school you over your stupidity. Google can help you or check threads about Lagos on NL. MUMU, EWU

Truth hurts. You were busy citing other economies borrowing money when you know they are for infrastructure that we see today.

The truth is that lagos state borrowed money for light rail meanwhile they are struggling to complete even a fraction of it why?

BECAUSE THE MONEY HAS GONE INTO TINUBUS POCKETS.

One thing i'am definetely sure about is fasola's vivid performances in lagos state, it's second to none.

I was born and raised in lagos, so i definetely knew the states of things before the enthronment of tinubu and fashola's legitimate government.Things has gone from worst to good. Abi no be lagos wey full of bad roads, dirty, disordered, bike robbers, abandoned(by fg), bad tranportation, bad health centers(i no include general hospital o) and eceteracetera.

It is glaring that lagos state is somehow working now
compared to the past.

From eko atlantic to eko rail, those two project alone are able to transform lagos state to be the pride of Nigeria and darling of the western world.

Dont give a dog a bad name in order to hang it.

About the dept and what he used it for. That one me i no know precisely but i know fashola dey work. And if suspected of corruption, hey efcc dey now, let dem try him.

Afterall, the Federal Government controls the Police, EFCC, ICPC and eceteracetera. So,the Federal Government is solely responsible to fight corruption by bringing the guilt to justice. Abi na youand me go prosecute am? neither tinubu nor fashola is ready to do that.

And if they don't prosecute when they are aware, then the central governent should get the blame for incompetences and turning blind to corruption.

Note; me i no be any party follower but an observer of truth.

DVanguard:

I agree with you that they need to start small before the get big. But you did not know that starting a research institute as lots of things that you need to put into consideration in terms materials and equipment's along side with funds that sometimes might come up with uncompleted research or failed projects.
You talked about heat seeking missile, it might cost $80000 but how much do the facility that produce that missile cost. Do you have the technological know how. Do you have the necessary materials to put things in place. If you are an Engineer then that is part of what we are talking about, half baked graduates. These facilities require lots of research and fund, with commitment. For now Nigeria is not close and i dont think we can be close.
To mass produce, is what am talking about, you don't have a steel company, your power supply is terrible, what infrastructure do you have that is working. Now to create that yourself as a state, can you understand the cost involved, planning etc.

It doesn't cost so much money when you start small

Aeronautic workshops cost billions today but started small in the beginning by the wright brothers

Most products you used today were discovered in one small unknown workshops/labs

Rockefeller built his first refinery with $4000 but died building refineries worth billions

Do not be frightened by today's huge cost but be encouraged by yesterday's small cost

A journey of a thousand miles start with a step

iwonbaoko:
Firstly one man's frivolity is another man priority . Or is there an agreed definition of frivolity? I digress.
I was hoping to get some "analysis" but your offering is disappointing. You now introduce another word; "sustainable" what does this mean in the context of Lagos state and our discussion here. These are just words "bad,unsustainable etc" very often people have very strong opinions but cannot put together any coherent or meaningful logical underpinning for these. The money "has to be gotten(sic) from somewhere" .

The real issue is how is it going to be repaid. How much can Lagos state afford to pay each mont NOW based on its current "Liabilities" profile and so how long will it take to pay ? That is the quality of debate I expect to have not throwing nebulous and meaningless terminologies aroun

In regards to Lagos state, frivolities means recurrent expenditure as for sustainability, its debt to GDP ratio. Has the money borrowed created jobs and improved the economy or has it being carted away?
For analysis,
1) Lagos state and Nigeria in general has a big deficit infrastructure and that has to be corrected.
2) The government has limited finances so it has to plan and prioritize.
3) Capital projects are expensive and cannot be financed from the states purse so you need to get someone to finance (loan) and you pay later.
4) When you borrow, you structure the repayments based on your current and future earning potentials.

I can't tell you exactly how the Lagos state government structured their repayments but the basic idea is good infrastructure will bring in more revenue and the extra revenue would be used to pay off the loan. Obviously there are risks involved and they would have been taken into consideration.

iwonbaoko:
Thanks for your kind words but I would not want you to put words in my mouth. I have not voiced an opinion (yet) on Lagos state's ability to pay back the loan. I was actually hoping to debate that issue .

Sorry if that appears to be the case but this is not my intention at all. When I said you inferred that Lagos has the ability to service the loans it has taken, I concluded this because you put up a consistently factual argument about how lenders like the World bank stringently and exhaustively scrutinise the financial health of entities they lend to. It means,implicitly, Lagos can pay back all loans it has received. Individuals, organisations, States and Nations default on loans mainly because(1) the original information given to obtain the loan utilised financial deception or (2) debtors mismanage their finances and/or fail to prioritise effectively. Even with corruption taken into account, and assuming we even err on the side of conservatism, the very commendable growth in IGR and GDP Lagos has achieved, to now position it as perhaps the only Nigerian State capable of surviving without federal allocation, means the debt-to-GDP ratio observation behind the issuance of loans to Lagos is very sound.

My point is that The loan and information about it is not news.It has been in the public domain since 2010. It was agreed with the World Bank and I know that prior to its approval Lagos State was required to make several changes to its public procurement rules and other "transparency" parameters. It was a long and involved negotiation lasting more than a year. Okonjo Iweala was MD of the Bank at the time.
I also agree that the interest terms of the loan are very very favourable and that makes it attractive. One is also persuaded by the fact that this specific loan is directed to a specific project.

We are on the same page with what is stated above.

Now I must point out that I am NOT an APC supporter,not a Fashola supporter or a Tinubu supporter either.
So I prefer to have a balanced debate.

You do not have to be an APC, Fashola or tinubu fan to discern that, all things taken into account to include the reality of how things are done in Nigeria, Lagos is well-led with real and quantifiable development and economic gains no other State has been able to come close to. This has nothing to do with politics and I personally put politics aside when talking of Lagos because it is my State.

Therefore I am not in support of ALL loans by Lagos state necessarily. I support loans from the World Bank because they perform greater diligence on how the money is spent and the interest rates are very good.

I would not expect you support all loans Lagos takes. That is common sense. Every financial decision, if it involves increasing the debt stock of a Nation or State, should be inspected on a piecemeal basis. Yet you can agree it is ignorant for anyone to to postulate that debts is automatically bad without inspection of the many considerations that can justify that assertion. This is consistently my point on these threads. I manage a high level of debts personally, mainly mortgages i.e "home loans", but I never struggle servicing my loans and actually even make very good money subtracting the difference between what I pay as regular loan repayments (monthly mortgage payment) and what tenants pay me in rent. The point of that example is that commenting without an awareness of the full picture is incredibly ignorant. I could ordinarily be seen as heavily indebted but the real situation surrounding my own income and personal circumstances means I have no problems at all servicing my loans and that I am actually financially much better off for taking these loans.

With regard to ability to pay I am not really in a position to comment without good information on the Expense/Liabilities profile of Lagos State. One must know the Revenues as well as expenses before one talks about ability to pay. GDP/debt ratios have no value if government is constrained from extracting revenue ffrom its economy. This could be the case for all kinds of reasons and so two governments with the same GDP do not necessarily have the same revenues

I don't think this is the case with Lagos because, without overstating a simple issue, what Lagos has borrowed appears to show it has erred conservatively on the side of caution and prudence in relation to the debt-to-GDP ratio of the State. Many informed experts have reiterated this. While I do not hold their summation as infallible or gospel truth, the reality is that key indices indicate that Lagos appears to be effectively a "Nation-State" able to sustain forward movement on the way to reaching the greater heights predicted for it by many development agencies of the world. I actually think Lagos would have no problem sourcing funds if it decides to borrow more.

The other question as some people are suggesting is that the money is being stolen. Again the form of debate should be to compare like for like projects in terms of quality/cost. That is the sort of debate I would welcome. Unfortunately most of those criticising do so with partisan objectives but that does not mean that there can be no criticism

Bruv, does any Nigerian State escape this allegation? I agree with you that we should look at projects delivered and scrutinise these for quality/cost. I personally think, even accounting for the reality affecting all States of Nigeria, Lagos would acquit itself very well in this regard.

Wiseoldman:

Dude, how would LASU's budget be 15 Million Naira, when that is not even enough to fuel the generators in her 4 main campuses for one month. LASU Engr Epe, LASU Communication Isolo, LASU MedSchool Ikeja, and the Main Campus in Ojo.

You are right....should have said $15million.

Here is the actual budget......click here

aljharem: Fashola and the APC lead Tinubu government are full of lies and propaganda. Lets itemize the things he claimed to have do with a loan of 160 billion Naira. Also note that Lagos generate 29 billion Naira monthly apart from 12 billion Naira monthly allocation from the Federal Government

Is Shoprite a Lagos state project ? No

Is Lekki epe a lagos state project ? No and if yes then why are we being asked to pay at them toll gate, is this not double taxation ?

Are those housing estates Lagos state project for the elites or masses ? if for the elites then half of them is owned by Tinubu. If not then why sell a Lagos state "low scheme" flat for 30 million naira ? Does this even make any sense ?

Are those malls shops for the elites or market men and women ? The tejuosho mall and co are rented and sold at high prices. Most of them have already been bought by his commissioner and SA wives.

Is FERMA also Lagos state ? Ikorodu road has always been repaired and maintained by Ferma, not to talk of other road.

Point out what Fashola has done apart from over inflated projects, planting flowers and elites housing estates

Hoping for PDP to take over this Tinubu Empire

I used to look forward to your posts until you went underground for a long time and returned as an anti-APC agent.

As for the bolded;

1. Fashola has said he didn't get cement cheap so the houses can't be cheap, go to the houses Jakande built and see how they have dilapidated, and that was in the days of "sane" Nigeria. Attempt cheap houses in this era of collapsed buildings and see them collapse in a few weeks.

2. When last did you see FERMA on Ikorodu road? It has been taken over by the LASG since the FG has proved to be unserious, same thing they did for Lagos-Badagry expressway

BlackTechnology:


It doesn't cost so much money when you start small

Aeronautic workshops cost billions today but started small in the beginning by the wright brothers

Most products you used today were discovered in one small unknown workshops/labs

Rockefeller built his first refinery with $4000 but died building refineries worth billions

Do not be frightened by today's huge cost but be encouraged by yesterday's small cost

A journey of a thousand miles start with a step

What do you mean by start small? Build a car engine from scratch or fill up the labs with pentium 1 systems?
Building a "small" research center is expensive. The company that produced ZMapp has only 14 staffs but i'm pretty sure their research facility runs into millions of dollars.

AZeD1:
What do you mean by start small? Build a car engine from scratch or fill up the labs with pentium 1 systems?
Building a "small" research center is expensive. The company that produced ZMapp has only 14 staffs but i'm pretty sure their research facility runs into millions of dollars.

As they become more successful , their value increases because of inflow of new investors money

pheesayor:
I used to look forward to your posts until you went underground for a long time and returned as an anti-APC agent.
As for the bolded;
1. Fashola has said he didn't get cement cheap so the houses can't be cheap, go to the houses Jakande built and see how they have dilapidated, and that was in the days of "sane" Nigeria. Attempt cheap houses in this era of collapsed buildings and see them collapse in a few weeks.
2. When last did you see FERMA on Ikorodu road? It has been taken over by the LASG since the FG has proved to be unserious, same thing they did for Lagos-Badagry expressway

I also use to look forward to your post.

How can you justify such corruption ? Do you have any conscience at all ?

Houses can be built for less than 10 million naira, that is you know about construction.

For mess sake, cements for Lagos state estate should be from the manufacturer not APC contraction where a bag of cement is 10,000NGN per bag.


I still saw ferma yesterday on ikorodu road so what are you saying ?

Call me whatever, I will always stand by the truth and not be clouded by ethnic or corrupt Tinubu empire

pheesayor:

I used to look forward to your posts until you went underground for a long time and returned as an anti-APC agent.

As for the bolded;

1. Fashola has said he didn't get cement cheap so the houses can't be cheap, go to the houses Jakande built and see how they have dilapidated, and that was in the days of "sane" Nigeria. Attempt cheap houses in this era of collapsed buildings and see them collapse in a few weeks.

2. When last did you see FERMA on Ikorodu road? It has been taken over by the LASG since the FG has proved to be unserious, same thing they did for Lagos-Badagry expressway

My friend, cut that crap about cement. " he did'nt get cement cheap, so the houses can't be cheap". Are you serious. We all know the price of a bag of cement. Besides, he must have bought cheaper because he bought in bulk. There is no justification for selling "low cost" houses for N25m. Have you seen the price of an ordinary shop at Tejuosho market ?. These people are thieves.

We are flushing them out come 2015. APC CANNOT come back.

Me de sori 4 d next Govnor him go either use 4 yrs pay debt or borrow more so dat him no go d carry last 4 dem lagos development..

Most people dont realize that Fashola is as corrupt as GEJ and other politicians. Most people are blinded by the APC,PDP allegiance. ThankGod i am a neutral Nigerian. To hell with PDP and APC, they are united in coruption and lack of vision. If you pro Fashola like, keep defending Fashola because he is a saint instead of holding him accountable, you are the ones that will suffer the consequence without you knowing. Gullible Nigerians.

The Title of the Thread is wrong. Fashola has not justified the 160b Naira State Debt. His rants is even off the point.

Let Fashola tell us lagosians what he has done with the 160b loan. Please.

Me I wan ask, she dey go pay interest on top the loan

Debt to GDP ratio is used as a CRUDE and I emphasize the word Crude to measure the ability of COUNTRIES to borrow.
It does not say anything about what the EXPENSES of the BORROWER are or how EFFICIENT the borrower is in extracting REVENUE from that GDP base.
Too this measure is used mainly for countries that have full tax raising powers from the said GDP base. To talk about Lagos State's GDP is an exercise in self deception. While the GDP may be real the state government is limited in its power to extract revenues from that GDP base for constitutional reasons e.g VAT accrues directly to the Federation account as do all the Excise duties from manufacturing and duties from the ports etc. In short the GDP is not available to Lagos State Government to exploit . This is no different from talking about the GDP of Akwa Ibom or any major oil producer. The GDP is high but the state does not OWN it and so to use that as a basis for borrowing is wrong.
What seems more sensible is the very basis
formula

Revenue Minus Expenses

Lagos state does not have any surpluses and that is why the fact that the FG withheld approval immediately stalled the Construction. From that perspective I would argue that Lagos state was in a better position to borrow under Tinubu's regime than now unless the government can find creative ways of increasing revenues. Lagos too is still vulnerable to shortfalls from the federation account though maybe less than others

iwonbaoko: Debt to GDP ratio is used as a CRUDE and I emphasize the word Crude to measure the ability of COUNTRIES to borrow.
It does not say anything about what the EXPENSES of the BORROWER are or how EFFICIENT the borrower is in extracting REVENUE from that GDP base.
Too this measure is used mainly for countries that have full tax raising powers from the said GDP base. To talk about Lagos State's GDP is an exercise in self deception. While the GDP may be real the state government is limited in its power to extract revenues from that GDP base for constitutional reasons e.g VAT accrues directly to the Federation account as do all the Excise duties from manufacturing and duties from the ports etc. In short the GDP is not available to Lagos State Government to exploit . This is no different from talking about the GDP of Akwa Ibom or any major oil producer. The GDP is high but the state does not OWN it and so to use that as a basis for borrowing is wrong.
What seems more sensible is the very basis
formula

Revenue Minus Expenses

Lagos state does not have any surpluses and that is why the fact that the FG withheld approval immediately stalled the Construction. From that perspective I would argue that Lagos state was in a better position to borrow under Tinubu's regime than now unless the government can find creative ways of increasing revenues. Lagos too is still vulnerable to shortfalls from the federation account though maybe less than others

Your comments show that you have a little understanding of public finance/economics when compared to most NL members

I want to see your perceptive in order to improve my view of life


Do you have any idea on how Lagos can increase revenue outside taxes

Fashola and APC are a perfect match of deceits and subtleness. Each time questions are asked about his oppressive,prodigal and flagrant governance he cunningly beats around the bush. What has BB rating got to do with pyramid of debt which the state cannot justify? Can he sincerely tell us that Lagos state's debt is commensurate with what we see on ground in terms of concrete development? He and his godfather(Tinubu) should pray that an opposition does not win Lagos in 2015, or else, they may go to jail.

Eko oni baje o!

Eko o ni baje o..

Eko o ni baje o..

Lagos on the move...

^^^^^^^^

The mod should delete this thrash propaganda

OLADD: Fashola and APC are a perfect match of deceits and subtleness. Each time questions are asked about his oppressive,prodigal and flagrant governance he cunningly beats around the bush. What has BB rating got to do with pyramid of debt which the state cannot justify? Can he sincerely tell us that Lagos state's debt is commensurate with what we see on ground in terms of concrete development? He and his godfather(Tinubu) should pray that an opposition does not win Lagos in 2015, or else, they may go to jail.

That is why we must vote them out.

Our destiny is in our hand. Don't give it to one man

TeamSimple: All of you ranting and making bigots comments.Fashola has made it clear that the loan was approved by the federal govt. And I believe before such approval GEJs team would av criticaly looked in2 d proposed use of the loan. Why not name ur state n govenor,let us inquire if its debt free..Moreover its better to have a corrupt leader who is working 4 d masses dan a corrupt leader who isn't working coz dat 1 is 2-0.

The first bond that was taken during my first tenure has been paid, the first
tranche. I think the second tranche will be due around 2016 or 2017 and we are already making provisions. The provisions that will be there will be in excess of what is needed

Enough said...

aljharem: ^^^^^^^^

The mod should delete this thrash propaganda

Hate, lack of identity and zero sense of belonging and worth is a terrible burden so why saddle yourself with that garbage...?

For progress and development updates in Lagos, always visit >>>>


Lagos state:::: Pride of the South West..

https://www.nairaland.com/1894158/lagos-state-pride-south-west


Eko o ni baje o..

Gbawe2:


So Nairalanders still has intelligent posters like you active and posting? My man, sometimes the nauseating ignorance of some contributors here makes one want to bang his head against the wall. It is the sound leadership of Lagos over the past 10 years, not anything the FG or any other State has done, that has seen the GDP, IGR and economic health of Lagos improve drastically to the extent the State now has one of the best debt-to-GDP ratio in Nigeria. It is the exemplary leadership Lagos has that has now put it in the position to claim the position of 7th largest economy in Africa if the State becomes a sovereign nation today. It would have been good if those focusing on the negatives here had the intelligence to at least put up factually and economically sensible arguments. Yet all we get, bar the contributions of a few posts to include your own, is incredible ignorance, shocking simple-mindedness and hideous lack of knowledge. A disgrace to Nigeria really.

With due respect to progressive NLs like you, who continually adding value, educating and exposing the antics of the self delusionist and chronic antagonists on this forum, many of whom have nothing to say but to critise, APC, Buhari, Bola Tinubu, BRF, Lagos and South West, this forum would have been uninteresting, boring and irritating. Why cant they direct their anger to world bank that after conducting due diligence went ahead to grant Lagos the loan that has transformed Lagos and making them to flock in droves to the same Lagos they detest so much.
If Lagos could not justify the loan, then FG and World bank who approved and granted it respectively has equally erred, but they have forgotten that the same World Bank who writes off the debt of the FG during OBJ would have conducted due diligence and see the ability of Lagos government to pay back before lending their money. While Lagos borrowed to provide speed light rail transportation system, their beloved FG borrowed to repaired an obsolete rail system, which one is a viable project

Na wa ooooo. At least, we can see development... Keep it up Fash!