exotik,

MLK, cheated on his wife, but that was with other black women. I haven't seen evidence that suggests that he was involved with even one hooker, white or black, even if one or more of his close followers ("entourage" is alleged to have been.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/mlking.asp

He couldn't compete in extramarital affairs with JFK though.

http://www.whosdatedwho.com/tpx_1246/john-f-kennedy/

^^^
Now that was somebody who was really "obsessed" with screwing everybody in sight. And he's on American currency.   A great man. He basically went to bed with half the 50s and 60s female stars of Hollywood.



As for W.E.B. DuBois vs. Garvey.

I would say DuBois was actually an Afrocentric writer and historian, but more in the "academic" way, than as a black nationalist. Read his book The Negro (parts of this book are what made me see him as an academic Afrocentrist) and The Souls of Black Folks, and you'll see why he definitely was not confused about "where he belonged." His comments against Garvey may seem pretty awful today, but he was definitely very pro-black.

Actually that article does nothing but confirm the fact that both hip hop and rap music are entirely american. First of all the article was wrong, rap started in the early 1970s not the early eighties. And did anyone bother to listen to the song lol. So now somebody simply talking over music is rap now? lol We might as well say dolemite and the last poets predated the bronx aswell. What a joke

Theres a big difference between this crap.

http://youtu.be/qMoYBJ-aSnI

And this-what i consider the first true rap song

http://youtu.be/O4o8TeqKhgY

k.o.n.y. did you listen to all of the songs of the other artists he mentioned?

I agree that the sound of the Jamaican "toasters" is not hip hop, but it is the case that there was some real rhyming in some of their songs.

Check out this song by U-Roy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8un1z4hFIqM&feature=related


It's not hip hop, but it's definitely rapping.




Completely unrelated and off topic:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOfA7udJBSI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz9w3cRMn0Y

I like these two songs. Reggae in general, I love. God bless Jamaica.

I literally laughed out loud after hearing that. Its basically a person talking over a beat, i wouldnt consider that rap. Either way thats nothing new to black american music

And i love jamaican music as well. Black america went through a jamaican/reggae "invasion" during the late eighties/early nineties

This was my sh.t

http://youtu.be/clcDWjsl5eQ

BLAIR UNDERWOOD

http://www.prgoretti.com/2011/09/16/actor-blair-underwood-in-cameroon-traces-his-roots-to-the-tikar-people-of-the-north-west-province/
Yeah and he's so handsome!!!
Cameroon 

Nayah:

BLAIR UNDERWOOD

http://www.prgoretti.com/2011/09/16/actor-blair-underwood-in-cameroon-traces-his-roots-to-the-tikar-people-of-the-north-west-province/
Yeah and he's so handsome!!!
Cameroon 

But the testing website says he came out Igbo?

http://www.africanancestry.com/testimonials/

Are you sure Tikar and Igbo are not the same genetically?

No Tikar are from Sudan!
And yes he has a bit igbo blood but he went to Cameroon because the main part of his descendant was first from Tikar which is a Cameroonian tribe

PhysicsQED:

exotik,

MLK, cheated on his wife, but that was with other black women. I haven't seen evidence that suggests that he was involved with even one hooker, white or black, even if one or more of his close followers ("entourage" is alleged to have been.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/mlking.asp

He couldn't compete in extramarital affairs with JFK though.

http://www.whosdatedwho.com/tpx_1246/john-f-kennedy/

^^^
Now that was somebody who was really "obsessed" with screwing everybody in sight. And he's on American currency.   A great man. He basically went to bed with half the 50s and 60s female stars of Hollywood.



As for W.E.B. DuBois vs. Garvey.

I would say DuBois was actually an Afrocentric writer and historian, but more in the "academic" way, than as a black nationalist. Read his book The Negro (parts of this book are what made me see him as an academic Afrocentrist) and The Souls of Black Folks, and you'll see why he definitely was not confused about "where he belonged." His comments against Garvey may seem pretty awful today, but he was definitely very pro-black.

hey Ovbioba, i remember watching a documentary some years ago, cant remember the name where he allegedly had an affair with some white women. and i have had dicussions with black-american or african-americans (to be politically correct) and they said he did like white women.

and the crux of his "integration" message was all about “interracial relationships” fighting dreaming to have cordial and extra-curricular relationship with ebos, and he had to throw that a lill black boy holding hands with a lil white girl in his dream speech. and when i look at the US today, the only thing that has really blossomed for black-americans  is interracial relationship/marriage. oh, plus they can now sit on a bus.

as for w.e.b dubious, i always thought he became an afrocentric @ the later stage of his life that was why i said he didn’t know where he belonged since he was a half-breed becoz lots of half-breeds really do not know where they belong, or which group to belong to and they find it hard to decide….so they claim all sorts of ancestry and end up saying they are “mixed”. so it was interesting to know that he wrote such a book way back in 1915? dont think i will have time to read it tho, coz i don’t care that much.

btw, i always wanted to ask u this question, why do u go by the name Physics? coz u seem to know much about History from ancient bini to greek. so maybe u should think of changing your name to HistoryQED…haha

anyways, laters.

just like my jamo-akata self,
rap music has roots in jamaica AND america. and also like me rap has a jamaican mother (where it was conceived) and an American father (what brought it to life by way of exposure)!  it's not 100 percent American nor is it 100 percent jamaican. its a beautiful fusion of the two groups.

kony you can go bleep yourself calling my islands music crap because you are still upset i called you out on another thread. direct your bitterness and misery elsewhere because you are NOT equipped to take me on. seriously. the reason you 'LOL'd was because you don't know what the definition of RAP is. RAP = LYRICS (literally). Its a form of chanting that is usually in rhyme. Rap music doesn't have to have a DR.DRE beat to be considered rap. You're delusional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hip_hop_music

Hip hop music is an element within Hip hop culture, which includes MCing, DJing, graffiti and b-boying. Hip hop music originated within early-1970s block parties in New York City, specifically African American and Hispanic sections of The Bronx, as an alternative to ethnic gangs that proliferated during that era.[1] These large, often outdoor parties were thrown by owners of loud and sometimes expensive stereo equipment, which they would use for community functions, or to compete among themselves in a manner similar to Jamaican sound systems.[1]
Rap music emerged from block parties after DJs isolated and looped percussion breaks favored among dancers. Later, MCs began speaking over the beats in a manner similar to Jamaican toasting. Lil Rodney Cee, of Funky Four Plus One More and Double Trouble, cites Cowboy, of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, as, "the first MC that I know of, He was the first MC to talk about the DJ." [1]
On August 11, 1973, Jamaican-born DJ Kool Herc was a DJ and Emcee at a party in the recreation room of 1520 Sedgwick Avenue in the Bronx, adjacent to the Cross-Bronx Expressway.[2] This location is ofen referred to as the "Birthplace of Hip Hop," though the genre actually developed in several places in the 1970s.[2] DJ Kool Herc:
extended an instrumental beat (breaking or scratching) to let people dance longer (break dancing) and began MC’ing (rapping) during the extended breakdancing. ,  [This] helped lay the foundation for a cultural revolution.
—History Detectives[2]

http://www.jamaicans.com/music/articles_reggae/when-did-reggae-become-ra.shtml

When did Jamaican dance hall reggae become rap? Are we not putting the carriage before the horse? Contrary to what many may say Rap can trace its origins directly from Jamaican Dub Reggae & Jamaican style toasting. It is a fact that isn’t talked about by many in the main stream media but many of the early pioneers (DJ Herc) and newer rappers (Busta Rhymes, Notorious B.I.G and Redman) in the American rap era are Jamaican immigrants or children of Jamaican immigrants in NY. One does not have to look very far to see the relationship between the two as we now see rap and dancehall reggae merging. This would not be possible if there were not the similarities as the child is now beginning to return to the parent. Jamaican dejaying came out of a form a rhyming and talking over music called “Toasting”. Rapping began as a variation on the toasting. . .

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/15/opinion/l-rap-music-began-on-jamaica-in-the-1960-s-659388.html

Rap Music Began on Jamaica in the 1960's
Published: June 15, 1988
SIGN IN TO E-MAIL
PRINT

To the Editor:

''It's Official: Rap Music Is in the Mainstream'' (news story, May 16) is inaccurate on the origin of rap music. Rap music originated on the island of Jamaica in the early 1960's and not in black ghettos of the United States.

In the early 60's, when Jamaican sound-system operators had only a single turntable, they would employ the services of a slick-talking, rhyme-every-time person on the microphone. These slick talkers (also called chanters) would fill in between records so that the dancers would not wander away from the floor. The chanters quickly realized there was more money to be made talking or chanting on a record than talking between records, so they started recording.

The first rap record was the song ''Skaiing West,'' released in 1963 by a group calling itself Sir Lord Comic and the Cowboys. Other rappers, such as King Stitt the Ugly One, Uroy and Big Youth, to name a few, quickly followed. Rapping has been firmly entrenched in Jamaican music since the early 60's. Black American musicians have practiced rap only since the early 80's. LAWFORD BAXTER St. Paul, May 31, 1988

i personally have videos of jamaican icons from the 1960s chanting and doing dub poetry to music. ska and mento slowed down = reggae. reggae with slack lyrics = dancehall. dancehall watered down = rap.

its logic and common sense. take a look at how we used to party in jamaica and dance in the 1960s and compare it to the doo wops  and 'swing' dances in america. rap music is NOT  native to america dude. you guys were still wearing perms and listening to motown when we were dubbing, chanting and remixing  . when the two groups collaborated and americans began to adopt urban jamaican culture that was when rap was born.

chanting. 

this is from 1985 but is EXACTLY how it was done twenty years before (60s)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtU9fKwsbxU (embed disabled)

heres another example of the same style.

[flash=500,260]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enlwrao5Li8?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0[/flash]

in this video the rapping begins @ 1:32 these guys are freestyling. thats whats so amazing.

this IS rap music. we are not into the hip hop business but rap? yes thats us! 

btw according to wikipedia rap music although part of black american AND jamaican culture, it is 'ultimately african'.
im not sure if i agree with that. 

even akon himself said rap is viewed as foolishness in many parts of africa (how he felt when he first came to the states as well) so how could it be from there? 

anyway one thing i DO know is Jamaicans definitely claim it as well and we should.
its the best of both worlds. 

exotik:

^^

actually martin luther king was a weakling and he loved white pvssy dat was why he was fighting hard to integrate with whites to avoid lynching when smashing his white pvssy.

[size=18pt]marcus garvey on the other hand was all about black pride and building an independent black community that would not be heavily reliant on whites only to be ridiculed by a half-breed like w.e.b dubious[/size] who did not know where he belonged because he was "mixed". [size=18pt] but ironically, w.e.b dubious died in ghana after he was kicked out of the US by the same whites whose interest he was trying to protect and later came to his senses in his sick-bed that garvey was right[/size].

[size=18pt]and it was the principles of garvey that malcolm x followed, teaching black people to be proud of their identity, build their own independent communities/nations without looking for white acceptance whereas mr king was teaching blacks how to remain docile and continue beg for white acceptance. [/size]

[size=18pt]and thats why whiteys in the US continue to celebrate martin luther king instead of malcolm x even though they were both black leaders from the same era who died under same circumstances, because they know if black americans continue to follow mr king's principles, they (whiteys) have nothing to worry about because you all (black-americans) will forever remain docile and continue to beg for white acceptance. [/size]

so in other words, mr king is the highly overrated one and nobody really gives a shyte about him outside the US. well, apart from south africans who adopted his weak teachings that he actually stole from ghandi,  non-violence my yansh, mtcheww.

[size=18pt]but garvey and malcolm x are the true black heroes dat blacks across the world celebrate[/size] not your weakazz mr king.

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!

ezeagu:

Ethiopias flag is not derived from Marcus Garvey's UNIA flag, theirs is the flag of the Ethiopian empire, and so is Ghana. Kenya does not keep the original order of the colours, but they are the second to use all the colours, Rwandas has nothing to do with Marcus Garveys' flag. Only Kenya's and Libya's can be said to have used the flag before Biafra, but that does not change the fact that Biafra's homage to Marcus Garvey is more obvious than Ghana (who derived their flag from Ethiopias').

Ok so Biafrans respected Garvey then why are YOU referring to us as lost ppl without a heritage or culture?
why would Biafra respect a LOST man?  and Ghana's BLACK STAR is a result of their respect for Garvey and the Rastafarian movement. The ruckus Jamaicans caused and the rebellious attitudes we showed to our colonists and devotion to Africa was so felt globally Haille Selassie (i just know i spelled his name wrong lol) himself came to jamaica in the 60's.  in fact whites tried to have 'whites only establishments' and the VERY DAY the first 'white only' restaurant was opened in kingston it was MOBBED and forced to closed down IMMEDIATELY! 

k.o.n.y:

lol those countries should have made a flag for martin luther king if anything,lol

jealous? 
lost that separatist attitude kony. this aint you!
jamos and akatas are half siblings. we are too much alike historically speaking
for you to try to play us jamaicans like that. seriously.

Rap music was not found in Africa.  Rap music is an evolution of spoken words with music.  Rappers were expressing their frustrations, anger, hopes, and desires before the demand of sex occur.  Rappers found gold when people responded to rappers belittling women, showcasing women sexuality, using profanities in extreme manners, and bragging about making it big through the rap game.  

Whites, Hispanics, and Asians people followed suit when they saw how lucrative the rap game was.  If you go to any modern day rap concerts you will see white people in droves more than black people.  Its obvious rap music attracting other nationalities.  Eminem was created by Dr. Dre because he wanted to attract a larger white audience and struck gold when he first introduced Eminem to the limelight.  

Eminem was given a chance in the rap game because of Dr. Dre, a black man.  Let us not get into African rappers.  

CalienteMi:

Rap music was not found in Africa.  Rap music is an evolution of spoken words with music.  Rappers were expressing their frustrations, anger, hopes, and desires before the demand of sex occur.  Rappers found gold when people responded to rappers belittling women, showcasing women sexuality, using profanities in extreme manners, and bragging about making it big through the rap game.  

Whites, Hispanics, and Asians people followed suit when they saw how lucrative the rap game was.  If you go to any modern day rap concerts you will see white people in droves more than black people.  Its obvious rap music attracting other nationalities.  Eminem was created by Dr. Dre because he wanted to attract a larger white audience and struck gold when he first introduced Eminem to the limelight.  

Eminem was given a chance in the rap game because of Dr. Dre, a black man.  Let us not get into African rappers.  

im not sure how rap is african either to be completely honest.
i know the 'call and response' pattern we western blacks use even to this day has roots in africa but
im not sure about rap. apparently there is a west african tribe that we got it from but im not sure
about that.

MsDarkSkin:

im not sure how rap is african either to be completely honest. 
i know the 'call and response' pattern we western blacks use even to this day has roots in africa but
im not sure about rap. apparently there is a west african tribe that we got it from but im not sure
about that. 

Even if there were tribes that thought of rap then how did Black Americans get into rap if Black Americans do not travel internationally according to some chatters on here? 

I didn't see any medias about rap originated from Africa.  I must have been riding something when the memo came around.

CalienteMi:

Even if there were tribes that thought of rap then how did Black Americans get into rap if Black Americans do not travel internationally according to some chatters on here? 

I didn't see any medias about rap originated from Africa.  I must have been riding something when the memo came around. 

And I agree.
hopefully someone reading this will educate me on that.
I definitely (UNLIKE KONY) dont want to take anything away from Africa but i dont
see the direct relationship between the motherland and rap OR hip hop.

Speaking of celebrities, what is this I hear you like Khaliz Wiz?

He is uglay.

CalienteMi:

Speaking of celebrities, what is this I hear you like Khaliz Wiz?

He is uglay.

WHO?? LOL who is that?!

MsDarkSkin:

WHO??  LOL who is that?!

G. Whizz.

yes oo!

im obsessed!

Lol again you do nothing but prove my point. That video you showed came out in 1985, hip hop and rap was already out for damn near 15 years. Im from the bronx you are out of your league in this argument trust me. I would consider melly mel the true father of what we know of as "rapping" which is an american term btw. He was the one that introduced actual bars and lyrics with a message. He is the root of all mcs today. He is black and from the bronx(america)

Thinking of jamaican toasting as being some type of influence on american music is laughable in the first place. Call and response, chanting and so called "jamaican toasting" are nothing new to black american music. Not at all, its hilarious. Theres a huge differance between that video and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lDCYjb8RHk

And this is early less advanced rap at that.


Nobody is trying to take credit away from anybody. Hip hop and rap started off essentially as a new york culture(not even american) overwhelmingly created by black americans. Hip hop is to americans as reggae is to jamaicans. I could say that reggae is basically a jamaican version of the blues to be honest



And by the time hip hop started to develop, americans were on some james brown jackson five type sh.t I hardly think anyone was swing dancing. Im not sure if your implying that jamaicans are better dancers or not lol

k.o.n.y:

Lol again you do nothing but prove my point. That video you showed came out in 1985, hip hop and rap was already out for damn near 15 years. Im from the bronx you are out of your league in this argument trust me. I would consider melly mel the true father of what we know of as "rapping" which is an american term btw. He was the one that introduced actual bars and lyrics with a message. He is the root of all mcs today. He is black and from the bronx(america)

Thinking of jamaican toasting as being some type of influence on american music is laughable in the first place. Call and response, chanting and so called "jamaican toasting" are nothing new to black american music. Not at all, its hilarious. Theres a huge differance between that video and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lDCYjb8RHk

And this is early less advanced rap at that.


Nobody is trying to take credit away from anybody. Hip hop and rap started off essentially as a new york culture(not even american) overwhelmingly created by black americans. Hip hop is to americans as reggae is to jamaicans. I could say that reggae is basically a jamaican version of the blues to be honest



And by the time hip hop started to develop, americans were on some james brown jackson five type sh.t I hardly think anyone was swing dancing. Im not sure if your implying that jamaicans are better dancers or not lol

LOL @ rapping being an American term! Rapping is an ENGLISH term bro. It pertains to lyrics or at times is used sarcastically when someone is telling lies to them. Hmmm apparently this is English class now.

i dont give a damn if you were from the bronx or timbuktu! 
i am from BROOKLYN  but regardless i take the time to GET FACTS before i even go head to head with anyone. 

Honestly, dude just like PhysicsQED said you dont take the time to read and research. when given facts you IGNORE.
obviously i said IT'S FROM 1985 BUT EXACTLY HOW IT WAS DONE TWENTY YEARS EARLIER IN THE 60'S did i not say that? secondly rap music is from jamaica that is not debatable. REAL rap historians and fans accept that. one does not have to have an american style beat to rap or be considered a rapper. everyone understands my point but you. but seeing as how you have some twisted agenda it really makes no sense to post more facts or videos anyway. even in the documentary series BEEF the intro says that rap music has its roots in Jamaica but like i said you are 'one of those' blacks who are not willing to take telling or learn anything new. [size=18pt]stay in your own world[/size]. Just like bootleg azz reggaeton  is a branch off of dancehall, American rap is a branch off of Jamaican 'toasting'. BOTTOM LINE BRO.

k.o.n.y:

Lol again you do nothing but prove my point. That video you showed came out in 1985, hip hop and rap was already out for damn near 15 years. Im from the bronx you are out of your league in this argument trust me. I would consider melly mel the true father of what we know of as "rapping" which is an american term btw. He was the one that introduced actual bars and lyrics with a message. He is the root of all mcs today. He is black and from the bronx(america)

Thinking of jamaican toasting as being some type of influence on american music is laughable in the first place. Call and response, chanting and so called "jamaican toasting" are nothing new to black american music. Not at all, its hilarious. Theres a huge differance between that video and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lDCYjb8RHk

And this is early less advanced rap at that.


Nobody is trying to take credit away from anybody. Hip hop and rap started off essentially as a new york culture(not even american) overwhelmingly created by black americans. Hip hop is to americans as reggae is to jamaicans. I could say that reggae is basically a jamaican version of the blues to be honest



And by the time hip hop started to develop, americans were on some james brown jackson five type sh.t I hardly think anyone was swing dancing. Im not sure if your implying that jamaicans are better dancers or not lol

Jamaicans have been in hip hop since the beginning, or are you forgetting that DJ Kool Herc, who started the remixing of those hard funk James Brown type sounds was Jamaican?

lakal:


Jamaicans have been in hip hop since the beginning, or are you forgetting that DJ Kool Herc, who started the remixing of those hard funk James Brown type sounds was Jamaican?

LOL he is just on some 'black americans are the most influential blacks' agenda. it's pretty sad. 
i remember when myself and chima would say that but it was JUST to piss off . i mean damn can someone really be that stubborn?

i bet if i told him the rope chains and the 5 finger rings that were first brought out by the jews but made popular by jamaicans he'd have a FIT! 

Rapping is one of the elements of hip hop and is american. How many times do i have to say that,what you call, "toasting" was already apart of black american music. Theres nothing new or distinctively jamaican about it

Jamaicans trying to steal credit from americans mention toasting. But even other americans try it aswell. Americans trying to steal credit from nyc mention people like the last poets,joe tex(i think thats his name) dolemite,gil schott heron(rip) etc as forms of rap

Your both wrong. Rap,toasting and spoken word over a beat are three different things. You gotta be an  if you think toasting and a nas verse are the same thing. Like i said the earliest true "rapper the hip hop version as we know it" was melly mel. And sounds nothing like toasters or anyone else.

What does being from brooklyn have to do with anything when the bronx was where hip hop started. Do you even know who afrika bambaataa is,Dj disco king mario,grandmaster theodore,lovebug starski? You get all your info from the internet lol. Your out of your league

The culture-hip hop and the music -rap is an american art form. Chanting and toasting is different from 2pacs "dear mama" lol. Show me an actual example of rapping coming out of jamaica that predates the 70s

 

ok K.O.N.Y if YOU. . i repeat [size=18pt]YOU[/size] say so. 
i know all about rap hun. you dont have to mention Afrika Bambataa to me.
I'm the one who is knowledgeable about AA culture and rap. 
Never said Brooklyn means I know everything dude. That just goes back
to my point that you don't read. I said it doesn't matter where one is from.

I'm not the one going down swinging but NOT connecting  .

What kind of slow analogy is that? 2pac versus toasting/chanting?
R & B comes from blues right? does Kheri Hilson sound EXACTLY like that of let's say
Billie Holiday? hell no! different factors come in and music evolves. I never said rap is entirely
Jamaican i said and KNOW that rap music's roots are in Jamaica. 

MsDarkSkin:

 

ok K.O.N.Y if YOU. . i repeat [size=18pt]YOU[/size] say so. 
i know all about rap hun. you dont have to mention Afrika Bambataa to me.
I'm the one who is knowledgeable about AA culture and rap. 
Never said Brooklyn means I know everything dude. That just goes back
to my point that you don't read. I said it doesn't matter where one is from.

I'm not the one going down swinging but NOT connecting  .

What kind of slow analogy is that? 2pac versus toasting/chanting?
R & B comes from blues right? does Kheri Hilson sound EXACTLY like that of let's say
Billie Holiday? hell no! different factors come in and music evolves. I never said rap is entirely
Jamaican i said and KNOW that rap music's roots are in Jamaica. 

Even the average white person probably knows who bambaataa is at this point via jay-z empire state of mind. Thats not that impressive. What about the others i mentioned?

You dug a hole with that analogy. I would definently say that they are in the same lineage just the same as nas is to melly mel. I can go back to billie holiday and see the progression to keri hilson. I cant look at  2pacs "ambitionz az a ridah" and see any connection to the jamaican toasting you posted. A better example would have been someone like diana ross btw, i would classify her as being more of a prerequisite to a keri hilson. Billie holiday wasnt even in the same genre as keri

How does it not matter where your from? If anything you ,and the arguments by others not from the bronx, shows that it does. Growing up in the bronx and hearing personal accounts on hip hops creation is much better than someone from iowa, who gets their info from wikipedia lol like you. How am i going down swinging. You use wikipedia and the internet thats laughable. You've been knocked down and outclassed on some tyson sh.t lol

And again toasting is nothing new to black american culture. What you call toasting has been a part of american music since the 20's. Its nothing new. Jamaicas biggest contribution was kool hercs(a man that moved from yard when he was 11 btw) usage of the "break beat". Im not saying jamaicans had absolutely zero influence(like 98%/2%). But hip hop and rap(hip hop rap) for all intents and purposes is an american construct

MsDarkSkin:

Um?

exotik: hey Ovbioba, i remember watching a documentary some years ago, cant remember the name where he allegedly had an affair with some white women. and i have had dicussions with black-american or african-americans (to be politically correct) and they said he did like white women.

Interesting. I'll have to look around a bit for documentaries on MLK and see what I can find. All of this is new to me.

and the crux of his "integration" message was all about “interracial relationships” fighting dreaming to have cordial and extra-curricular relationship with ebos, and he had to throw that a lill black boy holding hands with a lil white girl in his dream speech. and when i look at the US today, the only thing that has really blossomed for black-americans  is interracial relationship/marriage. oh, plus they can now sit on a bus.

Yeah, MLK was for black economic and political integration with the larger American society. I doubt that this was because of any particular infatuation with whites, though.  The reasons seemed practical.

There are still a few black Americans that criticize this, but I'm pretty sure that King didn't foresee the problems that would arise in black communities in later decades. That was pretty much out of his control.

As far as black Americans, I'm pretty sure things are getting better in a few areas after the 80s although maybe not in educational, employment, crime or incarceration statistics.

There's a black Attorney general, a black NASA administrator, black ambassadors, black American professors at prestigious universities, etc. I don't think that would have happened as quickly without Martin Luther King.

But MLK wasn't really as unflinchingly "white accommodating" in his thought as some people might see him today. For example, he strongly criticized America's involvement in the Vietnam war and was accused of being unpatriotic by some whites for doing so.

Some of his later comments, although not specific, also suggest that he favored affirmative action, which isn't popular with all whites. If affirmative action had been implemented in some sort of direct economic way, rather than merely in education or employment, it might have really changed black America in a positive way. So he wasn't just about integration, he was also interested in correcting past injustice, but he first had to get people to agree to stop the discrimination before he could begin to seriously ask about correcting past economic and educational discrimination.

To understand MLK's motivation in his own words, read his famous "Letter from Birmingham Jail"  (http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index.php/resources/article/annotated_letter_from_birmingham). I think he was sincere and his reasons were as he stated in that letter, more than they were because of anything else (i.e. the alleged interracial affairs).

as for w.e.b dubious, i always thought he became an afrocentric @ the later stage of his life that was why i said he didn’t know where he belonged since he was a half-breed becoz lots of half-breeds really do not know where they belong, or which group to belong to and they find it hard to decide….so they claim all sorts of ancestry and end up saying they are “mixed”. so it was interesting to know that he wrote such a book way back in 1915? dont think i will have time to read it tho, coz i don’t care that much.

I think Dubois was always Afrocentrically inclined, actually. He may have been one of the first black writers to claim ancient Egypt had black origins. Also, he seemed to take pride in being black and was happy not to be descended from the white people who had kept his particular group as slaves
.
See this quote for example:

' "Dr. DuBois was born in Great Barrington, Mass., on Feb. 23, 1868, five years after the Emancipation Proclamation. He was born, as he phrased it in his autobiography, "Dusk at Dawn," "with a flood of Negro blood, a strain of French, a bit of Dutch, but, thank God, no 'Anglo-Saxon.'" '

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0223.html

So I think he had a little bit of veiled contempt for the American whites he was around, which was understandable given the racism of the times.

btw, i always wanted to ask u this question, why do u go by the name Physics? coz u seem to know much about History from ancient bini to greek. so maybe u should think of changing your name to HistoryQED…haha

I'm actually a physics major and I'll be going to grad school to study physics a year from now (at which point, I'll probably post very rarely on nairaland, if at all). I know a lot about different areas of science, especially math, physics and astronomy, but real science discussions rarely ever come up in this forum, so I basically never end up displaying what I know in those areas. I agree with you that I end up mostly discussing history on here, but I spend much more of my time reading scientific books and articles and any study of history is pretty far in the background in real life, especially nowadays.

History is something I find interesting, but to be honest, I don't consider myself in anyway a history expert and definitely not on Greece, lol. Me calling myself HistoryQED would be dishonest as I probably don't know as much about world history as your average history student at a university.
I know a lot about a few specific areas of history (African ancient and modern history, American history), but not very much about most other groups.

My knowledge on Greek history is not deep at all (there is way too much written on Greek history for me to care about having any expertise in their history, anyway; also it's completely irrelevant to me personally), though I know some of the basics, and my knowledge of Middle Eastern history, East Asian history, Indian history, Mesoamerican history, Egyptian history, Arabic history, etc. is also relatively shallow. What helped me in having at least basic knowledge about all of those areas is reading the books in Will Durant's Story of Civilization series and reading one other book about the birth of civilization in Mesopotamia. Besides those books, I haven't read about the history of any world cultures in depth at all. I kind of got lucky in finding those books by Durant, because those books, especially the first 5, are a goldmine of general information, however biased the books may be towards the West.

What drew me into African history was when I stumbled on an art book called Treasures of Ancient Nigeria in a library. I read several similar and related books over the next few years and read many more publications about the different ancient Nigerian cultures mentioned there. Then I branched out and read up on other parts of West, Central, East and south Africa like Ghana, Ethiopia, the Congo, Zimbabwe, etc. From there I started reading many of the publications of the most prominent Afrocentric writers (Van Sertima, J.A. Rogers, Cheikh Anta Diop, etc.) to see if there was any truth in their historical claims and to find out which claims could stand up to scrutiny (not that many, honestly). That's how I found out about Dubois' book The Negro.

As far as the stuff I post on here, you won't see me post much in detail about other African or Nigerian cultures besides Benin, because I haven't read up as deeply on those groups as I could have and honestly don't know as much as someone who had studied those cultures in detail would. I focused more on Benin and the cultures connected in some way or another with it because of the direct connection I have. When you consider the very favorable, impressive way Benin was described by the whites who first saw it, and you contrast it with how whites would see it today in terms of development, relative to their own societies, it's a bit depressing, but it's also a source of evidence to show that the biased historical picture painted about blacks is not really accurate.

One of the things I learned from history is that science and technology determined why the world is the way it is today more than anything else, and science and technology are why certain people and groups more or less rule the world today. The arts and humanities and history are important, but they are secondary in importance. I don't intend to go into researching history in any kind of professional capacity, although I still think there is a lot to be studied and discovered about African history.

anyways, laters.

 

Yeah, later.

By the way exotik, sorry about the long response. I just realized how long my post looks in comparison to what I was responding to.

why do you feel Cheikh Anta Diop's ancient egypt theories can't withstand scrutiny ?