RikoduoSennin: ^^^ You just quote me without even reading anything I wrote.

Well, since you mind is made up already about you own opinion of JW believes on blood and blood transfusions, I will leave you be.

Lastly we are not ignorant of the advances in medicine, it is people like you who are stuck in the old ways. JW continue to review current medical procedures/techniques regarding bloodless surgery. Even people who do not share our beliefs are embracing bloodless surgery. The number of medical doctors who carry out bloodless surgery are on the rise.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What enters a man mouth does not defy him? Then why the restriction not to eat pig? Did jesus eat pig meat? And why? *** wrong application of scriptures***

i eat pig meat. anything wrong with that. does that makes me a sinner? i repeat blood transfusion is ok as long as it is done to save lives. embrace it.

Acts 15:29
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

To abstain from blood would mean and include not having anything to do with blood and TOUCHING of blood. But we (JWs inclusive) kill and touch the animals we kill. So abstinence from blood here is pointing at, "do not eat blood."

Eating blood is not the same as transfusing blood. Two different things. One disintegrates blood and pass some of its components as waste, the other preserves it. Of course we must obey Jehovah's commandment to pour out the blood of the animal we kill and not eat it. This does not speak of blood transfusion.

Since we know that we all have the same Spirit (life) ie one spirit, a matching blood from another person would be like the same blood i have. Transfusion from the blood of a living person (not dead body) would mean CONTINUITY of the same life in another.

With this in mind, there still remain the abstinence from blood as Jehovah commanded.

Well done Ukutsgp.

Boomark: Acts 15:29
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

To abstain from blood would mean and include not having anything to do with blood and TOUCHING of blood. But we (JWs inclusive) kill and touch the animals we kill. So abstinence from blood here is pointing at, "do not eat blood."

Eating blood is not the same as transfusing blood. Two different things. One disintegrates blood and pass some of its components as waste, the other preserves it. Of course we must obey Jehovah's commandment to pour out the blood of the animal we kill and not eat it. This does not speak of blood transfusion.

Since we know that we all have the same Spirit (life) ie one spirit, a matching blood from another person would be like the same blood i have. Transfusion from the blood of a living person (not dead body) would mean CONTINUITY of the same life in another.

With this in mind, there still remain the abstinence from blood as Jehovah commanded.

Well done Ukutsgp.

tanks. many people want to persecute me for speaking d truth.

A certain man was disgnosed wit a typical disease at d hospital .... And d doctor asked " hav u been drinkin alcohol? " the man answered " yes sir" .. The doctor continued " from dis moment, even u want cure; Abstain From Alcohol" ...But The Man Reason " If i know drink am thru mouth, den fit transfuse am to my body now!" ! Is he keepin d doctors advice ? Has he truely abstain ? .. therefore, true christians! Once again i say true christians who want to folow Gods Command In Act 15:29 " Abstain from blood" will refuse blood transfusion even if it meant sacrificing their lives! In d future" there is goin to be a resurection of the righteous and the unrighteous" act 24:15! Blood transfusion is not for true christians.

CANTICLES: A certain man was disgnosed wit a typical disease at d hospital .... And d doctor asked " hav u been drinkin alcohol? " the man answered " yes sir" .. The doctor continued " from dis moment, even u want cure; Abstain From Alcohol" ...But The Man Reason " If i know drink am thru mouth, den fit transfuse am to my body now!" ! Is he keepin d doctors advice ? Has he truely abstain ? .. therefore, true christians! Once again i say true christians who want to folow Gods Command In Act 15:29 " Abstain from blood" will refuse blood transfusion even if it meant sacrificing their lives! In d future" there is goin to be a resurection of the righteous and the unrighteous" act 24:15! Blood transfusion is not for true christians.

Only if some certain men would know that taking out their blood and putting it back into the blood stream is different for eating or drinking their blood.

Pour alcohol into another alcohol and nothing will happen. Pour it into ur stomach and something will happen. Let alcohol go where it belongs and nothing will happen. It affects the blood and does not belong there.

CANTICLES: A certain man was disgnosed wit a typical disease at d hospital .... And d doctor asked " hav u been drinkin alcohol? " the man answered " yes sir" .. The doctor continued " from dis moment, even u want cure; Abstain From Alcohol" ...But The Man Reason " If i know drink am thru mouth, den fit transfuse am to my body now!" ! Is he keepin d doctors advice ? Has he truely abstain ? .. therefore, true christians! Once again i say true christians who want to folow Gods Command In Act 15:29 " Abstain from blood" will refuse blood transfusion even if it meant sacrificing their lives! In d future" there is goin to be a resurection of the righteous and the unrighteous" act 24:15! Blood transfusion is not for true christians.

so u wont go near someone bleeding from injury?

RikoduoSennin:

I tell you, the bold section is plain false! Please talk to a professional Medical doctor and see if there is really nothing wrong with blood transfusion medically.( Ask what really happened to Pope John Paul).

Blood transfusions like any medical procedures has its risks, not limited to these; it does not save life 100% rather it is 50-50, it holds the risk of infections such as HIV, hepthatitis,etc, it causes complications between the new blood and the old- organ failure (No two humans have exactly the same blood components), it is difficult to screen blood samples (100% disease free).

In the bible book of Acts, Why were christians urged not to eat "anything strangled", what do you think is the principle behind that instruction?

Over Man history, men have been consuming human blood for medicinal purposes- research about that, but is our life more important than obeying God's law?

Taking alcohol/drugs through the veins is still like ingesting it- it affects the body the same.


JW put their Faith in Jehovah's law "Do not eat blood- because it is sacred/life", Whether they survive medical procedure without taking blood or not, they are not afraid of death after all they have the hope of everlasting life in a perfect new world if they obey Jehovah, what is better than that.

when did an intravenous injection of blood become tantamount to feeding on blood?
The stupi.dity of som religions!
As for sayg blood transfusion has risks - hepatitis,hiv etc , what doesnt? If you send your baby to school she mayb bullied? If you drive a car you may hit or b hit?
A plane may crash does this mean these things are useless?
Eaten food moves thru the mouth, to the stomach,then intestines.
Is this the same path intravenous matter takes?

Boomark:

Only if some certain men would know that [b]taking out their blood and putting it back into the blood stream is different for eating or drinking their blood.[/b]

Pour alcohol into another alcohol and nothing will happen. Pour it into ur stomach and something will happen. Let alcohol go where it belongs and nothing will happen. It affects the blood and does not belong there.

you cannot provide a basis for this in the scripture (bold in your quote)....and i can say that is what you think!

i think this topic is one of those i am still not fully clear about, but i think those who chose not to take blood transfusion are still acting within what the scriptures says and directs about blood, and their decision should be respected

for example, Lets start by what was written about how to treat blood in the bible:

when i was discusing this topic with the jehovahs witneses, they pointed out Gods direction to the isreal as to what to do with blood, that is he directs the blood to be poured out like water and cover with earth

Deuteronomy 12:16

16"Only you shall not eat the blood; you are to pour it out on the ground like water.

Leviticus 17:13
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,


apart from avoiding eating of blood, God directs how it should be treated......cover with earth!

nothing was further said about storage of blood of anykind! man or animal

The greek word used for 'abstain' Acts 15:29

; to hold oneself {off} that {is} refrain: - abstain.http://www.newjerusalem.org/Strongs/G567?from=Chapter(Acts.15).Verse(Acts.15.20).Strongs(G567)

and moreover i think they are trying to rely on 2 peter 3, vs 13,14

2 Peter 3: 13,14

13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

Blood is like the body's transportation system.
As blood circulates, it delivers oxygen and
nutrients throughout the body. It also collects
waste products and carries them to the organs
responsible for making sure the wastes leave the
body.

Whole blood is a
mixture of cells
and liquid, and
each part has a
specific job:

Red blood

cells carry
oxygen to
the body's
tissues and
remove
carbon
dioxide.

White blood

cells help
defend the
body against
infection by
producing antibodies, which help destroy
foreign germs in the body.

Platelets, the smallest blood cells, help to
clot the blood and control bleeding.
Plasma is the liquid part of whole blood
and contains a mixture of water, proteins,
electrolytes, carbohydrates, cholesterol,
hormones, and vitamins.

A blood transfusion can make up for a loss of
blood or any part of the blood. Although whole
blood can be transfused, it is rarely used.
Instead, more specific parts of blood are
transfused as needed. Red blood cells, the most
commonly transfused part, are used to increase
the blood's ability to carry oxygen and prevent
fatigue and other complications.

Transfusions take 1 to 4 hours, depending on
how much blood and what type is given, and no
special recovery time is needed.
Most transfusions are done in a hospital, but can
be done elsewhere when necessary. In most
cases, the blood comes from volunteer donors.
The blood of the donor, which is carefully
screened to ensure its safety, must match the
blood of the person receiving it.

Why Blood Transfusions Are Performed

The three main reasons why someone may need a
blood transfusion are:

1. Loss of blood during surgery or from an
injury or an illness.

2. An inability to make enough blood. Some
illnesses and treatments can impair the
bone marrow's ability to make blood (e.g.,
chemotherapy decreases production of new
blood cells).

3. To prevent complications from an existing
blood or bleeding disorder, such as sickle
cell disease, thalassemia, or anemia caused
by kidney disease, hemophilia, or von
Willebrand disease.

Ukutsgp: Blood is like the body's transportation system.
As blood circulates, it delivers oxygen and
nutrients throughout the body. It also collects
waste products and carries them to the organs
responsible for making sure the wastes leave the
body.

Whole blood is a
mixture of cells
and liquid, and
each part has a
specific job:

Red blood

cells carry
oxygen to
the body's
tissues and
remove
carbon
dioxide.

White blood

cells help
defend the
body against
infection by
producing antibodies, which help destroy
foreign germs in the body.

Platelets, the smallest blood cells, help to
clot the blood and control bleeding.
Plasma is the liquid part of whole blood
and contains a mixture of water, proteins,
electrolytes, carbohydrates, cholesterol,
hormones, and vitamins.

A blood transfusion can make up for a loss of
blood or any part of the blood. Although whole
blood can be transfused, it is rarely used.
Instead, more specific parts of blood are
transfused as needed. Red blood cells, the most
commonly transfused part, are used to increase
the blood's ability to carry oxygen and prevent
fatigue and other complications.

Transfusions take 1 to 4 hours, depending on
how much blood and what type is given, and no
special recovery time is needed.
Most transfusions are done in a hospital, but can
be done elsewhere when necessary. In most
cases, the blood comes from volunteer donors.
The blood of the donor, which is carefully
screened to ensure its safety, must match the
blood of the person receiving it.

Why Blood Transfusions Are Performed

The three main reasons why someone may need a
blood transfusion are:

1. Loss of blood during surgery or from an
injury or an illness.

2. An inability to make enough blood. Some
illnesses and treatments can impair the
bone marrow's ability to make blood (e.g.,
chemotherapy decreases production of new
blood cells).

3. To prevent complications from an existing
blood or bleeding disorder, such as sickle
cell disease, thalassemia, or anemia caused
by kidney disease, hemophilia, or von
Willebrand disease.

you seem to lost this argument when you cannot provide where God direct blood of anykind to used or stored outside his istruction that blood should be pour out on the ground like waterAND cover it with earth.

Deuteronomy 12:16

16"Only you shall not eat the blood; you are to pour it out on the ground like water.

Leviticus 17:13
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,

BERNIMOORE:

you seem to lost this argument when you cannot provide where God direct blood of anykind to used or stored outside his istruction that blood should be pour out on the ground like waterAND cover it with earth.

Deuteronomy 12:16

16"Only you shall not eat the blood; you are to pour it out on the ground like water.

Leviticus 17:13
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,

in blood transfusion, the blood is not eaten. ur argument is nt valid.

also what goes into d mouth cannot defile a man.

question: will u run from a man bleeding from injury?

Jehovah witness hold a belief that makes no sense and
has led to multiple deaths: They refuse to
undergo blood transfusions even if it
means saving their own lives, a belief
that stems from irresponsible
interpretations of the Bible. It’s
especially disgusting when the children
of JW parents are the ones who are
suffering and their parents would rather
see their kids die than have the life-
saving procedure done.
In some cases, even when JWs have said
no to the transfusions, doctors have
ignored their wishes in order to save a
life. Unless the patient is an adult JW
saying “I don’t want a blood
transfusion,” it’s exactly what the
doctors should be doing. Children don’t
deserve to die because their parents are
deluded by religion.
What boggles my mind is that JWs still
hold this ridiculous belief despite all the
unnecessary deaths that have occurred
as a result of it.

BERNIMOORE:

you cannot provide a basis for this in the scripture (bold in your quote)....and i can say that is what you think!

i think this topic is one of those i am still not fully clear about, but i think those who chose not to take blood transfusion are still acting within what the scriptures says and directs about blood, and their decision should be respected

for example, Lets start by what was written about how to treat blood in the bible:

when i was discusing this topic with the jehovahs witneses, they pointed out Gods direction to the isreal as to what to do with blood, that is he directs the blood to be poured out like water and cover with earth

Deuteronomy 12:16

16"Only you shall not eat the blood; you are to pour it out on the ground like water.

Leviticus 17:13
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,


apart from avoiding eating of blood, God directs how it should be treated......cover with earth!

nothing was further said about storage of blood of anykind! man or animal

The greek word used for 'abstain' Acts 15:29

; to hold oneself {off} that {is} refrain: - abstain.http://www.newjerusalem.org/Strongs/G567?from=Chapter(Acts.15).Verse(Acts.15.20).Strongs(G567)

and moreover i think they are trying to rely on 2 peter 3, vs 13,14

2 Peter 3: 13,14

13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

My brother it is common sense that taking ur blood out and putting it back doesn't change anything.

It is also common sense that the blood you are going to pour out like water is not Human blood but that of animal.

It is also stated that your not going to be killing a Human being but Animal.

Nothing was written against taking your blood out and putting it back.

asalimpo:

when did an intravenous injection of blood become tantamount to feeding on blood?

As for sayg blood transfusion has risks - hepatitis,hiv etc , what doesnt? If you send your baby to school she mayb bullied? If you drive a car you may hit or b hit?
A plane may crash does this mean these things are useless?
Eaten food moves thru the mouth, to the stomach,then intestines.
Is this the same path intravenous matter takes?

Very sick people and People in coma are FEED through I.V which is done how? **intraveinously**

That is not even the point, The scriptures say ABSTAIN, and that means more than eating. Unless you still don't understand what "abstain" means.

Blood Covenant are no joke, why is that? Because blood is Sacred, when you view it like that, you will get what "abstain" means.

Yes, blood transfusion like every medical procedure has its risk. Bloodless surgery is still the one with lower risk and it is a growing field in the medical world.

RikoduoSennin:

Very sick people and People in coma are FEED through I.V which is done how? **intraveinously**

That is not even the point, The scriptures say ABSTAIN, and that means more than eating. Unless you still don't understand what "abstain" means.

Blood Covenant are no joke, why is that? Because blood is Sacred, when you view it like that, you will get what "abstain" means.

Yes, blood transfusion like every medical procedure has its risk. Bloodless surgery is still the one with lower risk and it is a growing field in the medical world.

does it means that u dnt touch blood? or go close to someone bleeding?

RikoduoSennin:

Very sick people and People in coma are FEED through I.V which is done how? **intraveinously**

That is not even the point, The scriptures say ABSTAIN, and that means more than eating. Unless you still don't understand what "abstain" means.

Blood Covenant are no joke, why is that? Because blood is Sacred, when you view it like that, you will get what "abstain" means.

Yes, blood transfusion like every medical procedure has its risk. Bloodless surgery is still the one with lower risk and it is a growing field in the medical world.

Very nice point at the bolded. Why not tell us how.

So is it the same thing to eat egusi soup and also to feed it intravenously?

let us leave alcohol and use cowbell milk, Can you put this into your blood?

Boomark:

Very nice point at the bolded. Why not tell us how.

So is it the same thing to eat egusi soup and also to feed it intravenously?

let us leave alcohol and use cowbell milk, Can you put this into your blood?

Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine allows a
liver transplant but not the blood that is
in it.
Jehovahs Witnesses DO take blood
products now.
They take all fractions of blood.This
includes hemoglobin, albumin, clotting
factors, cryosupernatant and cryo-poor
too, and many, many, others.
If one adds up all the blood fractions the
JWs takes, it equals a whole unit of
blood. Any, many of these fractions are
made from thousands upon thousands of
units of donated blood.

Ukutsgp: so u wont go near someone bleeding from injury?

....... U ar mistaken, bcoz u dont know d scriptures ;Act 15:29 Says " Keep Abstaining from blood, .... Sexual immorality " ! Wait , does dat min a person sud not play wit ladies again or wont g near women, isnt ur mom a woman? a reasonable person knows dat he doesnt commit sexual immorality until he had intimacy( sex) wit d opposite sex ! When d scripture says abstain from blood, u violate that law... Not by avoidin a bleedin person BUT by consumin blood into ur body system, wich may be in d form of transfusion or thru mouth

The Jehovah's Witness movement was founded in
1884, in the United States, by Charles Taze
Russell. Russell, reputedly a compelling speaker,
had previously been a member of a conventional
Christian church but then found reasons to
disagree with much of its theology. The
movement, originally known as Zion's
Watchtower Society, preaches a literal belief in
the Bible, aided by Russell's own `Aid to Bible
Understanding'. Whilst originally basing their
doctrines on the King James Version, in 1961 they
introduced their own version, `The New World
Translation of the Holy Scriptures', with
significant alterations from other, accepted
translations. They deny, among other things, the
Trinity, the personage of the Holy Spirit, the deity
of Christ, bodily resurrection and a visible Second
Coming. They represent one of the largest cults in
the world today, publishing more material than all
the other world cult groups combined.

The introduction of the blood transfusion taboo

The prohibition of blood transfusions was
introduced by the Society towards the end of
World War II. Its introduction was a relatively
gradual process and followed prior objections to
vaccination, inoculation and sorgan
transplantation. (Since the 1950s acceptance of
these treatments has been left up to the
individual's conscience.) The first direct mention
of the prohibition was in 1944: 'Not only as a
descendant of Noah, but now also as one bound
by God's law to Israel which incorporated the
everlasting covenant regarding the sanctity of
life-sustaining blood, the stranger was forbidden
to eat or drink blood, whether by transfusion or
by the mouth.

In an attempt to strengthen the prohibition,
Jehovah's Witnesses were referred to previous
Watchtower articles which actually bore no
relevance to the subject under discussion, being
on other topics such as eating blood and murder.

The whole subject seemed to be somewhat
controversial, with a notorious quote, often cited
as proof of doctrinal inconsistency by the
Society's adversaries, in the September 1945
Dutch edition of 'Consolation':
'God never issued provisions prohibiting the use
of medicine, injections or blood transfusion. It is
an invention of the people who, like the Pharisees,
leave Jehovah's mercy and love aside'
In reality this quote merely shows the
inadequacies of post-war communication and the
arbitrary nature of the prohibition's introduction.
The prohibition was openly ignored by many
members until 1951 when the first court case
occurred in Chicago. The case involved Cheryl
LaBrenz, the second child of Rhoda and Darrell
LaBrenz, who suffered from haemolytic disease of
the newborn. It brought to light the practical
problems which such a prohibition posed. From
that point on Witnesses started to ask questions
and a clearly defined stand, supposedly with
biblical justification, was developed.

Many people have questioned why such a
controversial doctrine was ever introduced. As
Bergman concludes there is probably no one
reason but the need for world-wide cohesive unity
and the re- establishment of a universal collective
identity were clearly motivating factors. After all,
World War I I marked the climax of the Witnesses'
persecution when they were imprisoned in
concentration camps in Nazi-occupied Europe,
and marked out as social deviants in the USA for
their stand as conscientious objectors and refusal
to salute the flag or sing the National Anthem.[8]
They also faced the prospect of a whole new
administration, under Knorr's presidency,
following the death of Judge Rutherford. In this
context the complete avoidance of blood may well
have been a means of `setting apart' Witnesses
and consolidating their loyalty to the Society.

Biblical arguments

The Jehovah's Witnesses' claim that their
prohibition of blood transfusions has a scriptural
basis relies primarily on three passages: Genesis
9:4, Leviticus 17:11-14 and Acts 15:20, 29. It is
based on the premise that a blood transfusion
involves the use of blood as a nutrient, or food,
and is therefore comparable to eating blood.
As regards Genesis 9:4, the Society teaches that
this refers to a prohibition on eating blood which
applies to all mankind, Jew or Gentile. It
seems that the verse is referring to the eating of
animals which have been killed without being
bled. Also the very use of the word lifeblood (NIV)
emphasises the close relationship between blood
and life. Throughout history many pagans
believed that by eating life that is `in the blood
(Lv 17:11 ) they could increase their own life-
force. This verse serves to correct that
misconception and to remind us that life is the
precious and mysterious gift of God: 'Just as I
gave you the green plants, I now give you
everything'. (Gn 9:3).

Indeed the Society's teaching is inconsistent with
their own teaching that:

`Jehovah's Witnesses (spiritual Jews) do not
oppose the people's (spiritual Gentiles) use of
transfusion, but allow each one to decide for
himself what he can conscientiously do. The
lsraelites felt bound to abide by God's law of
forbidding the eating of meat with blood
congealed in it, but still they had no objection
whatever to those outside God's organisation
doing it, and even supplied unbled carcasses to
outsiders who regularly ate such things
anyway.'
So does Genesis 9:4, as part of the Noahic Law,
apply to all or not? Deuteronomy 14:21 would
initially seem to contradict the Genesis position,
stating as it does that an Israelite could sell the
undrained carcass of an animal to a Gentile.
However, that is not necessarily the case 'if the
Noahic Covenant is seen as superseded by the
Old Covenant. The Society itself states:
`... After Jesus died, true worshippers were no
longer obliged to keep the Mosaic law.' (Rom
6:14, 10:4, Col 2:13,14). 9
thereby implying that they are no longer bound by
the dietary restrictions of Leviticus and negating
their own argument (as regards Lv 17:11-14). In
any case Leviticus 17:11-14 clearly refers to the
blood of sacrificial animals, requiring the death of
the animal, in contrast to blood transfusion where
the donor retains their life.
The blood shed in such sacrifices was sacred,
epitomising the life of the sacrificial victim, and
therefore had to be treated with respect. The
blood of the sacrifices pointed forward to the
blood of the Lamb of God, who obtained for his
people `eternal redemption' (Heb 9:12)for `without
the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness'.
(Heb 9:22)
Also, both Genesis 9:4 and Leviticus 17:11-14
relate to the blood of animals and birds and bear
no reference to human blood, or indeed to that of
fish which, interestingly, is not prohibited by
Witnesses.

The final reference which the Society uses to
justify its position is Acts 15:20,29, where the
Jerusalem Council instructs believers to abstain
from...blood'. The Society argues that this
prohibition is a permanent injunction to all
Christians against taking blood into their body in
any form. Once again however there is no
suggestion that the Bible is referring to human,
as well as to animal, blood. Also this is clearly an
edict to do with peace between Jews and Gentiles
in a specific situation where the Jews were
particularly repulsed by what they saw as the
Gentiles' violations of Divine directives. In this
instance the Gentiles were merely obeying rules
which they did not perceive as necessary to
obtain salvation simply in order to increase the
chances of the Jews becoming believers. As Paul
says, for the sake of the Gospel, `I have become
all things to all men so that by all possible
means I might save some' (1 Cor 9:19-23).

Bergman' states that `the Watchtower position is
biblically indefensible' and that would certainly
seem to be the case.

CANTICLES: ....... U ar mistaken, bcoz u dont know d scriptures ;Act 15:29 Says " Keep Abstaining from blood, .... Sexual immorality " ! Wait , does dat min a person sud not play wit ladies again or wont g near women, isnt ur mom a woman? a reasonable person knows dat he doesnt commit sexual immorality until he had intimacy( sex) wit d opposite sex ! When d scripture says abstain from blood, u violate that law... Not by avoidin a bleedin person BUT by consumin blood into ur body system, wich may be in d form of transfusion or thru mouth

sex is an act that is performed. so to abstain from sex is to stop performing that act. u can be close to a girl/woman without having sex.

blood on d other hand is a physical thing that can be touched. it is a physical substance unlike sex that cannot been seen but can only be performed.

so to abstain from blood should implies staying away from blood. not touching or coming close to it. no matter d person that was bleeding.

supposing it says from eating blood, then we must not eat it. and it will be very illogical to say:

eating blood= blood transfusion.

check the definition of eating i gave earlier on and blood transfusion.

Boomark:

My brother it is common sense that taking ur blood out and putting it back doesn't change anything.

It is also common sense that the blood you are going to pour out like water is not Human blood but that of animal.

bolded above, talking about common sense and scriptural doctrine you allude to wisdom through the use of sense

here is what bible says about that and why we cannot solely rely on wisdom;

1 corinthians 1:20,21

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe

It is also stated that your not going to be killing a Human being but Animal.

Nothing was written against taking your blood out and putting it back.

wait, you are trying to differentiate humans blood as superior (scriptural) from animals blood, but yet you could not provide a scriptural basis if the blood is the life of animals(according to the bible), and people of isreal are directed NOT not to eat the life(blood) with the meat according to the bible (note that i am not saying that eating is same as transfusion, but i am building my own argument from what scripture says about human and animal lives, humans and animal blood)


Deuteronomy 12:23
But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat.

striking similarities between human and animal life(spirit)

Eclesiastes 3:19,20

19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?[/size]

taking your blood out and putting it back in the face of scriptural evidence above, Deuteronomy 12:23 'because the blood is the life'

Eclesiastes 3:19,20 they(man and animals) all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals[/b], for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 [b]Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth[/size]

you can see that they are still very consistent with the bible dictates! and i think doing everything within the scriptural rules to be 'found spotless' in Gods eye matter most.

Ukutsgp: in blood transfusion, the blood is not eaten. ur argument is nt valid

you are the one forcing a 'one way treatment to this issue, apart from the law not to eat, we have another law 'as to what must be done to the blood,.....that is it should be beried like dead humans

in blood transfusion, you have to store the blood before transfusion......is there any scriptural basis for storing blood which is regarded as the life? i doubt if you can provide one! Deuteronomy 12:23
But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat.

Deuteronomy 12:16

16"Only you shall not eat the blood; you are to pour it out on the ground like water.

Leviticus 17:13
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,

also what goes into d mouth cannot defile a man

. are you saying that jesus and the writer of the book of acts peter were contradictory?

Ukutsgp: Biblical arguments

The Jehovah's Witnesses' claim that their
prohibition of blood transfusions has a scriptural
basis relies primarily on three passages: Genesis
9:4, Leviticus 17:11-14 and Acts 15:20, 29. It is
based on the premise that a blood transfusion
involves the use of blood as a nutrient, or food,
and is therefore comparable to eating blood.
As regards Genesis 9:4, the Society teaches that
this refers to a prohibition on eating blood which
applies to all mankind, Jew or Gentile. It
seems that the verse is referring to the eating of
animals which have been killed without being
bled. Also the very use of the word lifeblood (NIV)
emphasises the close relationship between blood
and life. Throughout history many pagans
believed that by eating life that is `in the blood
(Lv 17:11 ) they could increase their own life-
force. This verse serves to correct that
misconception and to remind us that life is the
precious and mysterious gift of God: 'Just as I
gave you the green plants, I now give you
everything'. (Gn 9:3).

Indeed the Society's teaching is inconsistent with
their own teaching that:

`Jehovah's Witnesses (spiritual Jews) do not
oppose the people's (spiritual Gentiles) use of
transfusion, but allow each one to decide for
himself what he can conscientiously do. The
lsraelites felt bound to abide by God's law of
forbidding the eating of meat with blood
congealed in it, but still they had no objection
whatever to those outside God's organisation
doing it, and even supplied unbled carcasses to
outsiders who regularly ate such things
anyway.'
So does Genesis 9:4, as part of the Noahic Law,
apply to all or not? Deuteronomy 14:21 would
initially seem to contradict the Genesis position,
stating as it does that an Israelite could sell the
undrained carcass of an animal to a Gentile.
However, that is not necessarily the case 'if the
Noahic Covenant is seen as superseded by the
Old Covenant. The Society itself states:
`... After Jesus died, true worshippers were no
longer obliged to keep the Mosaic law.' (Rom
6:14, 10:4, Col 2:13,14). 9
thereby implying that they are no longer bound by
the dietary restrictions of Leviticus and negating
their own argument (as regards Lv 17:11-14). In
any case Leviticus 17:11-14 clearly refers to the
blood of sacrificial animals, requiring the death of
the animal, in contrast to blood transfusion where
the donor retains their life.
The blood shed in such sacrifices was sacred,
epitomising the life of the sacrificial victim, and
therefore had to be treated with respect. The
blood of the sacrifices pointed forward to the
blood of the Lamb of God, who obtained for his
people `eternal redemption' (Heb 9:12)for `without
the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness'.
(Heb 9:22)
Also, both Genesis 9:4 and Leviticus 17:11-14
relate to the blood of animals and birds and bear
no reference to human blood, or indeed to that of
fish which, interestingly, is not prohibited by
Witnesses.

The final reference which the Society uses to
justify its position is Acts 15:20,29, where the
Jerusalem Council instructs believers to abstain
from...blood'. The Society argues that this
prohibition is a permanent injunction to all
Christians against taking blood into their body in
any form. Once again however there is no
suggestion that the Bible is referring to human,
as well as to animal, blood. Also this is clearly an
edict to do with peace between Jews and Gentiles
in a specific situation where the Jews were
particularly repulsed by what they saw as the
Gentiles' violations of Divine directives. In this
instance the Gentiles were merely obeying rules
which they did not perceive as necessary to
obtain salvation simply in order to increase the
chances of the Jews becoming believers. As Paul
says, for the sake of the Gospel, `I have become
all things to all men so that by all possible
means I might save some' (1 Cor 9:19-23).

Bergman' states that `the Watchtower position is
biblically indefensible' and that would certainly
seem to be the case.

Ukuts gp you copy other people's work from another site, compare what you post with this http://www.cmf.org.uk/publications/content.asp?context=article&id=461

Ukutsgp:

Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine allows a
liver transplant but not the blood that is
in it.
Jehovahs Witnesses DO take blood
products now.
They take all fractions of blood.This
includes hemoglobin, albumin, clotting
factors, cryosupernatant and cryo-poor
too, and many, many, others.
If one adds up all the blood fractions the
JWs takes, it equals a whole unit of
blood. Any, many of these fractions are
made from thousands upon thousands of
units of donated blood.

Where do they get the enbolden from? Do they manufacture it or they get it from the blood that must be poured like water and covered with sand? And again, whose blood, animal or human?

CANTICLES: ....... U ar mistaken, bcoz u dont know d scriptures ;Act 15:29 Says " Keep Abstaining from blood, .... Sexual immorality " ! Wait , does dat min a person sud not play wit ladies again or wont g near women, isnt ur mom a woman? a reasonable person knows dat he doesnt commit sexual immorality until he had intimacy( sex) wit d opposite sex ! When d scripture says abstain from blood, u violate that law... Not by avoidin a bleedin person BUT by consumin blood into ur body system, wich may be in d form of transfusion or thru mouth

Blood=blood
Sexual immorality=Sexual immorality.
sexual immorality is not equal to women.
It never says, abstain from women.

So it means, "stop consuming blood into your SYSTEM?" Where did u get this your System explanation? I want to see SYSTEM and Transfusion.

BERNIMOORE:

bolded above, talking about common sense and scriptural doctrine you allude to wisdom through the use of sense

here is what bible says about that and why we cannot solely rely on wisdom;

1 corinthians 1:20,21

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe

Bro i should be the one using that scripture to preach. It is the wisdom of man that made Moses hit the rock twice when he was asked to do it one, Saul gathered animals for burnt offering thinking he will please God, when he was told not to spare any. The same with people adding transfusion when they are commanded not to Eat. You see how men add their wisdom?

wait, you are trying to differentiate humans blood as superior (scriptural) from animals blood, but yet you could not provide a scriptural basis if the blood is the life of animals(according to the bible), and people of isreal are directed NOT not to eat the life(blood) with the meat according to the bible (note that i am not saying that eating is same as transfusion, but i am building my own argument from what scripture says about human and animal lives, humans and animal blood)
Deuteronomy 12:23
But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat.

striking similarities between human and animal life(spirit)

Eclesiastes 3:19,20

19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?[/size]

taking your blood out and putting it back in the face of scriptural evidence above, Deuteronomy 12:23 'because the blood is the life'

Eclesiastes 3:19,20 they(man and animals) all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals[/b], for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 [b]Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth[/size]

you can see that they are still very consistent with the bible dictates! and i think doing everything within the scriptural rules to be 'found spotless' in Gods eye matter most.

Now that animal and humans have the same/equal life, why would you kill an animal for food but you can't kill a human? Since what happens to Man happens to animal.

You didn't tell me if it is wrong to draw your blood out and put it back.

BERNIMOORE:

Ukuts gp you copy other people's work from another site, compare what you post with this http://www.cmf.org.uk/publications/content.asp?context=article&id=461

tell me that i am not correct. the doctrine not doing blood transfusion is incorrect. get that.

Boomark:

Bro i should be the one using that scripture to preach. It is the wisdom of man that made Moses hit the rock twice when he was asked to do it one, Saul gathered animals for burnt offering thinking he will please God, when he was told not to spare any. The same with people adding transfusion when they are commanded not to Eat. You see how men add their wisdom?

two commands we have on this issue so far

1, Not to not eat the blood, because the blood is the life (Deuteronomy 12:23)

2, Blood must be drained out, and cover with earth(dust) storage of blood was not permitted or mentioned, but rather it should be poured and cover with dust! Leviticus 17:13
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,

it will be noted that you only relied your argument with 1 above, while 2 above overrules transfusion!

Now that animal and humans have the same/equal life, why would you kill an animal for food but you can't kill a human? Since what happens to Man happens to animal.

To the extent that you drain the animal blood and immidiately cover it with dust, Deuteronomy 12:23
But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat.

why cant we kill fellow human? its because it was a command not to do so, humans are 'ceremonially' dubbed Gods image, but still sustain its life with 'lifeblood' ;

Gen 9:6(Niv) “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.

You didn't tell me if it is wrong to draw your blood out and put it back.

How do you want to achieve transfusing your own blood without first? 'storing the blood' what bible says

Gen 9:5 (Niv)

And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

why will God demand 'an accounting' for your own 'lifeblood'?

so, What we derive from Gen 9:6 above

God will surely demand an accounting for your lifeblood

taking into consideration this directions

Deuteronomy 12:16

16"............ you are to pour it(blood) out on the ground like water.

Leviticus 17:13
".................. must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,

compare Eekiel and Job below

Ezekiel 24:7
'For the blood she shed is in her midst: She poured it on the bare rock; she did not pour it on the ground, where the dust would cover it.

Job 16:18 O earth, cover not you my blood, and let my cry have no place.



based on these aforementioned and clear bible verses, can we really be castigating jehovahs witnesses who are trying their best to follow what is in 2 Peter 3: 13,14

2 Peter 3: 13,14

13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

except we want to judge them outside the scripture

Ukutsgp: tell me that i am not correct. the doctrine not doing blood transfusion is incorrect. get that.

you are not correct until you build your own case, and match them one on one with their defence, stop copying Mandi Fry Article since 1993 http://www.cmf.org.uk/publications/content.asp?context=article&id=461 ,

bolded below

Gen 9:5 (Niv)

And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

why will God demand an accounting for 'your own lifeblood'?

@BERNIMORE/truthislight/loveroftruth,

The Watchtower stance on blood is Scripturally inaccurate on several levels:

1. The Bible refers to eating blood from animals killed for food, not blood transfusions that do not result in the death of the donor.

2. Paul showed that Acts 15 was only binding when it would result in stumbling (1 Corithians

3. The Rabbinic principle of Pikuach Nefesh (appealed to by Jesus at Mat 12:11) dictates that the Law be superseded if it would result in loss of life

My two cents

@ukutsgp,

Check out this site

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php

It contains an accurate critical appraisal of JW's copy and paste your articles from there.