What kind of god will make people languish in hell fire for eternity without mercy?that is monstrous for any standard.If he is all merciful god,why should he at anytime be unmerciful?Just curious.

When should unforgivingness become a set standard,even when christ was on about about the need for time without number forgiveness?To me,it is kind of double standards,saying something else and planning to do another,or rather above standards or no standards at all.

redsun:

What kind of god will make people languish in hell fire for eternity without mercy?that is monstrous for any standard.If he is all merciful god,why should he at anytime be unmerciful?Just curious.

Let us assume that God is not in the picture for the sake of your argument - we don't need to appeal to His mercy or love, or even His judgement of wicked men.

Now, turn for a moment and tell us what you would do to men who do not claim a religious affirmation and deliberately go out to murder people, and they never stop doing so till their very last breathe. I have not called any names (would do so if asked). But when such a man is brought before you redsun, what would you do?

Don't tell me you are comparing me with your all mighty and all merciful god,i can pardon somebody like obasanjo of his deeds,if he repents and atone for his sins by paying back which ever way he can,don't forget he is a mass killer too.

I can never  take pleasure in hurting others unless i can't help it,maybe in self defense.,

@redsun,

redsun:

Don't tell me you are comparing me with your all mighty and all merciful god,

No, I'm not telling you that - nor am I telling you anything at all. I have rather chosen to see your own logic as you pull and stretch it to its max. Besides, I clearly said earlier that we should "assume that God is not in the picture for the sake of your argument", so there's no need to be hasty to appeal to be compared to anyone here, least even to God.

redsun:

i can pardon somebody like obasanjo of his deeds,if he repents and atone for his sins by paying back which ever way he can,don't forget he is a mass killer too.

Sir, I also said earlier that "I have not called any names", and Obasanjo definitely was not on my mind. Compared to many godless fellows, perhaps he does not even qualify to be considered here. I wonder why he is always your ready reference when called upon to consider the logic underlying your presumptions.

redsun:

I can never take pleasure in hurting others unless i can't help it,maybe in self defense.

Uhm, what do you mean by "unless" you can't help it? Look dear, let me follow your logic, that's why I only asked for the sake of your own argument to leave God out of the picture. I have not, nor will I, compare you to anyone - least at all "God". Consequently, if you have to "hurt" someone (whatever you argue at all for that), does that not show us your own monstrosity?

If god is not in the picture,then what are we talking about?we are talking about god for real as an issue,he sets heaven and hell according to religious beliefs.

I chose to mention obasanjo because realistically,there are very few people that are as bad as him in the world,it is just that most of us fail to see it because the politicians are not practically stabbing pregnant women in the stomach and reaping of their children,the consequences of their deliberate stupidity and greed destroys agonizingly in millions,so no apology for using his name.

Apart from murder sins,people will go hell too for pleasure sins like fornication and adultery,is that really justifiable in any way?it is like saying islamic fundamentalists that stones women to death for having a good time are reasonable,horrible i'nit.If god is eternal and existence is eternal,why should there be a set time for punishment?

Religious doctrines like hell and heaven are farce and vulnerable people take it literally,which is dangerous to humankind,people just need common sense and instant repudiations to live.

Hell is a human creation.
Nothing more, nothing less.

redsun:

If god is not in the picture,then what are we talking about?we are talking about god for real as an issue,he sets heaven and hell according to religious beliefs.

God is in the picture if we want to "talk" - but that does not seem to be what you started out to do; and that was why I had offered that IF He was not in the picture, then I wanted to see your own logic. The point being that, you have not shown me how you would be totally clear of your accusation against others, if you admit that you sometimes cannot help hurting others.

I wonder what got u confuse in this life and direct issue,this is no logic,it is a question of why at any time,the all merciful god will be comfortable seeing people suffer for eternity,judging from the fact that sins like mistakes are most times results of ignorance.there should always be a room for another chance if the the culprit repents and change,especially when the sins are minute. 

Moreover,i never claimed purity,i am just a type of person that expects to one way or the other pay for mistakes,so i tend  to make as little mistakes as possible.I am not particularly judging anybody,but posterity and results of actions do,just like obasanjo and his cohorts that spent 16 billion dollars on power sector in nigeria,yet people die knowingly or unknowingly of carbon monoxide poisoning from generators day in,day out in nigeria.'

This is not the stage of logic,it is a stage of we as entities becoming reasons itself,i don't cut corners,i see it the way it is and i am not static,subjective reasonings.

heaven and hell the heaven and hell mantra is loosing traction to the extent that some christains and moslems are now insinuating that non christains and non moslems will go to heaven(paradise) 200 years ago a christain can get killed for suggesting that a moslem or any other non believer  will go to heaven and vice versa, the idea of heaven and hell is completely ridiculous. according to the bible people that do not believe in jesus will end up in hell regardless of how they live their lives but mordern day christains are trying to dance around what the bible asserts because the assertion simply makes no sense to them. . . . . why should a merciful god punish people infinitely for finite sins? should a 25 year old sinner who passes away spend enterniy suffering in hell? does that make sense? no wonder christains are now trying to define and redefine what hell is. . . delutional generation. . . .

@redsun
Hell actually exist, but hell was not created by God. There is a law in creation that says "what you sow is what you reap." This law was placed in creation by God. The rational behind this law is that every creature will receive the reciprocal effects of his/her actions. Thus if you give love and kindness to your neighbor, you will receive love and kindness in a much greater extent, not necessarily from your the same neighbor.

This law operates in all parts of creation; it operates in the physical planes, beyond, and spiritual planes. It can be observed in all parts of creation, even on earth.

The physical manifestation of this law allow us to plant one seed of corn and during hervest reap kernels of corn. You cannot plant corn and reap rice, neither can you plant apples and reap guava. This is the physical manifestation of this law called the law of reciprocal action. If you plant corn, you will definitely reap corn.

Science has also seen the physical manifestion of this law in all things physical. Newtons third law of motion describes the physical manifestation of this law of reciprocal action. Newtons law states that "to every action, there is a reaction which is equally and oppsite in the direction of the initial action." Thus as I apply a force of fifty Newtons on a wall, the wall will automatically apply the same amount of force me." This is automatic, inviolable, impartial and unchangeable. If I hit my hand on a wall with a force, the wall will apply the same force to my hand, and I could get injured. I have nobody to blame for my injury except myself.

Every thing we do, think and speak, takes on form and awaits us. Due to the law of attraction of homogeneous species, all the forms of evils we do attract each other and wait for us. If they mature before we depart this earth, we will reap them while we are still alive. We reap them as sorrows, misfortunes, accidents, and etc. But if we pass on or die before paying or reaping all the evil we have sown, we will be drawn into that environment where all those evil forms are attracted and accumulated. This environment is what men call hell. It is only the reciprocal effect of all our wrong actions. For every action, there has to be a reaction. In hell we receive the reaction for all our wrong actions we did on earth. Thus, if you plant evil, you will definitely reap evil or the fruits of evil either here on earth or in the beyond.

Thus hell should not be attributed to God. Hell is a consequence of the evil that men do.

pilgrim.1:

Now, turn for a moment and tell us what you would do to men who do not claim a religious affirmation and deliberately go out to murder people, and they never stop doing so till their very last breathe.

Is this an argument that eternal torture could be appriate punishment for anything aanyone may have done on earth? Torture is difficult to justify, much less so, when it must continue endlessly.

I have not called any names (would do so if asked).

Here's a request to name names; hope you would.

And, whatever names would be in that list, surely, they couldn't be representative of everyone eligible for hell. We could take the names and examine why continuous torture cannot be reconcilled with a principled, loving, and just God.
.

just remove hell and find out how many people will remain in this so called religions

Heaven and hell is right here with us,human conscience,can u feel it.A lot of people live in boundage here on earth for different reasons,the true life is one with out fear and offensive negativities.

In as much as the fear of hell to some extent helped to shape the world's morality for good,eternal fear of repercussions could be dreadful,if you believe,it is just not necessary if humans can apply some common sense,especially at this time of possibilities,that with out brains and hands,we conquer.

Hmmm heaven and hell?
Funny thing is throughout most of the OT the concept of heaven and hell did not really feature, just a thought though.
What is even most annoying is that what decides if you will go to either place is just believe.
As for those trying to logically explain it, how do you explain someone who murders with every breath in them up until their own last breath and then they genuiningly repent, as compared to someone who has been good all their life very good to humanity but did not believe in God at all.
Let me use vivid examples, just imagine the most vile characters that have walked this earth, there are so many of them, starting from moses and his goons right down to saddam hussein, but for the sake of balance lets pick hitler, if hitler was to have repented at the last minute, I mean if he had confessed Jesus as his personal lord and saviour with his last breath and meant every word of it, he would have been well on his way to heaven, just maybe he did whatever happened within him just before he died of that poison we don't know but lets assume he did. He had gained heaven.
On the flip side let us assume something was to happen to bill gates, I gather he does not really believe in God so far but this man's name will go down in history as one of the greatest pioneers of our time and he has helped man tremendously. In fact he is a great giver and has just stepped down at microsoft to do charity work, if something were to happen to him and he died, he would be headed to hell. Can this get any more absurd, the bible says works alone cannot save you without faith.
Great men like ghandi who helped men during their lifetimes will be burning in hell right now just because they did not believe.
I think this world would be a lot better, I think people who are suffering for instance in Daffur, iraq, congo and every other place would be taken a lot more seriously if we realise that THIS LIFE IS ALL WE GET.

Funny thing is throughout most of the OT the concept of heaven and hell did not really feature, just a thought though.

That's right. And "hell" particularly more so.

The Adolf Hitler, Bill Gates and Ghandi examples are useful, as are the examples of others not as known; it is absurd and amoral to suggest that God, who is righteous and just will decide to torture a fellow like Ghandi, and for eternity.
.

@nimshi
One of the things about organised religion that just does not make sense. If Ghandi is going to be in hell, i should probably be there already.
How do you think christians would react if I asked them where they think he will be?

Chrisbenogor:

@nimshi
How do you think christians would react if I asked them where they think he will be?

Y'know, I do ask questions as these. My observations:

The more "stubborn" types insist on the letter of the word; the more thoughtful types attempt to weave: God is Just, some of them will insist, so who knows what Ghandi was thinking in his heart, or what his innermost thoughts were shortly before he expired. . . or words to that effect. When I hear such, then I know not to push it; I'll recognise that I'm in the presence of a religious fellow with a conscience, and one with the presence fo mind enought to make him/her know God couldn't be caged or held hostage to what they wish would be. There're many like these.

And when discussing with Muslims other than (I'm not very sorry to say, eh), some on this board, one is able to find that sensitivity to a greater understanding of God that is missed in much of the fiery and uninformed discussions on this board. We discuss contemporary events, and the relevance of religion in an evolving world, not jinns; we discuss the most controversial works about Islam: The Satanic Verses, and the more recent The Jewel of Medina, not how a hand ought to be severed for minor misbehaviour. But, I digress.

I have seen that the humanity we share could be summoned by thoughtful questions; and where some ambivalence is found in the response of a "fundamentalist"to a question like: "Will Ghandi go to hell?", that a small victory of humanity over dogma.
.

Is there anything like hell fire?

the only hell in this life is poverty, ignorance, close mindedness, and illetracy. . . [s]did i hear any one mention the democratic republic of congo? ohhh some one just wispered dafur. . . . [/s]

Read Revelation from chapter 1 to the last chapter. I believe that will answer your question.